slowTA

iTrader: (1)

All in all the installation wasn't horrible, but could have been a little better. The fit on the driver side was pretty straight forward, I just have to figure out how to secure the fuel and brake lines where they get clamped next to the tranny crossmember. Right now they are resting against the bolt heads and I don't want them to rub a whole anywhere. They'll be OK for a while, I'm not too concerned.

The passenger side is a different story. The ends of the subframe connector were too narrow to fit well. I was able to open up the rears easily, but there is still a noticeable gap. The front was even worse. It looked like one of the front corners was touching the frame just fine. The back of the front section had a HUGE gap. I tried opening it up like the rear and although it helped some it wasn't enough. If I were to drill the hole at that time, I wouldn't have been able to drill 2 holes in the frame. It would have looked like a tunnel instead. I wound up bending the front edge down some and that brought the back in closer to the frame.

The floor board needed just a little pounding to clear the connector, just behind the bend where it goes over the exhaust. I notched a corner on the front heat shield and removed the rear section altogether. But here is the bad part, the flange where the converter and intermediate pipe come together hits the connector. My exhaust sits way too low for some unknown reason, so I figured any interference wouldn’t be an issue for me. The converter isn’t even 3.5” off of the ground. The noise is horrible!

Any suggestions how to fix this?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Nice ramps...how much did those set you back??? J/K....


I've heard of that problem before and I have a set of Alstons getting ready to go in and I hope I don't have that problem. My solution would have been to mark where the connector rested and take a grinder and grind down that part of the subframe on the car to get it to fit a bit tighter. Since it doesn't sit tight against the subframe, this is one reason why the cat hits the connector.

Ed

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

I don't think there is enough of the frame to grind away to make them fit properly. I was actually lifting the car a good inch or more when I was putitng them in. I'll have to go check how much room I have on top of the subframe connector. Maybe I'll have to reinstall that side. When I eventually get them welded in I may have one side of the cups cut off and just weld what's left to the car. So they would resemble the Mac's instead.

What really bothers me is that I had a custom y-pipe made for my other car that was wrecked, it fits really tight to the frame. When that goes in this car I'm sure I'll have trouble.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

After having the Alston SFC's on my Formula for about 4 years, I can honestly say I hate the fuggin' things.

1) They don't fit. The drivers side fits fine but the passengers side doesn't mate well with the floor.

2) They conflict with the stock dual cat exhaust.

The exhaust issue is probably due to the fitment issue. I have a horrible hollow clunking noise due to the Y-Pipe after the dual cats hitting the SFC. The only way I can get it to go away is to remove one of the hanger bolts to the cats.

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

what brace is that in front of the SFCs, is that the Kenny Brown Lower Chassis Brace

Rembrandt

What are you talking about? If you are talking about the lateral brace that has the red thing on it, that's the transmission mount crossmember.

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

oh **** it is, lol, my bad

Rembrandt

I was thinking "has he ever looked underneath his car before?"

LOL

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

lol, and i have rebuilt my entire suspension and swapped in a Probuilt tranny and 2400 stall ACT torque converter last thanksgiving.
Ive been sick the last few days, thats probably why im being retarded

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

LOL... I'm glad someone is getting a few good laughs out of one of my posts! I think I've come to the conclusion that I'll try to move the connectors up some. I'm not sure how I'll go about doing this yet. The problem is that the cups on either end are a tad bit too narrow. I guess I'll either try taking the paint and undercoating off of the frame or upening up the cups some more. I'll decide when I get back under the car.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

As the time approaches when I install my Alstons (Mon or Tues), I've been thinking about this issue. I will be welding mine in but if I run into this problem, I will cut one side of the cup bracket completely off, weld the rest of the bracket on, then weld that plate back on in the neighborhood of where it goes on. That's plan #1. Second plan is to just send them back since they won't fit and go with Spohn's SFCs again. I'll post pics of how they fit and what I do.

One question though: Were these SFCs part of Lon's GP a while back? Just curious...

Ed

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

Yes, they were a part the group purchase. I was one of the few who decided to get them uncoated, you can see how the POR 15 got scratched off. I've heard something about the front passenger side not fitting right, but from what I remember they were WAY off. At least I was able to get min on right.

I like the idea of cutting off one side of the cups, I thought about that too. I don't have a mig welder but I do have a stick welder. I'm thinking I could cut it off and then tack weld it back in place just moved over a bit. That way I can get some more room in there and still keep it bolted for now.

I'm also worried about the bad vibes setting off my knock sensor and hurting the performance. With an autocross coming up next weekend I'm hoping I don't mess up the works any.

nape

iTrader: (1)

Mine was one of the ones that was way off. I've been driving my GTA around since November with only the driver's side SFC on. I just picked up a '90 Formula, so once I get that titled and driveable my first project on the GTA is to weld both of them on. The front mounting cup will have to be cut off and rotated 10-15 degrees though

On a different note, how have other's welded the connectors on with the fuel and brake lines there? My thought was to bolt the driver's side back in, and only weld on the outside and bottom of the subframes.

Goumba T

The flange on my cat hits the SFC too. I was thinking of sticking something between the flange and SFC as a buffer but I don't know what yet.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Go to Auto Zone or a parts store and get a small roll of gasket material and roll it around the SFC in the area of contact, and hose clamp it on. That should work fine and it won't burn up..

I test fitted my Alstons and I seem to have the same problem but it's nothing a BFH didn't fix. I still need to work on the front side of the passenger side (the problem one) and I have to take my cat off to get to it the way I want to so I'll get back at it tomorrow. I shouldn't need to cut off one side like I mentioned but it will take a little beating to get it to sit right, at least sit right in my eyes...I'm **** about these types of things. There's not a whole lot of room between that cat and the floor. I took my heat sheild totally off like I did last time with the Spohn's on my Iroc.

Ed

Jon92TA

Mine hit flange and SFC's hit too, we tried putting something in between but it fell out. The fix was to torch a notch in the flange, now they only contact if I hit a hard bump.

Fitting the SFC's up to the body also needed a few minor BFH adjustments.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Same problem here. I just bolted in the back and jacked up the SFC deep into the subframe almost sjamming it in there, then bolting it in.

jfreeman74

Do you guys think I will have the same problems with mine? I have a 3" exhaust but I don't have a flange on my cat. It's a slip-fit cat.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

I worked on mine a little more today. I opened up the front cup a little and found that 1 corner was hitting the frame and wouldn't allow the rest to slide up enough. So I sliced the bottom of the cup right where the side part is welded to the bottom, in the front if I remember right. This allowed me to bend down the bottom of the cup so that the rest would slide up better. This worked pretty well but there is still a gap at the rear of the front cup. After this I started hammering it in place and noticed that it would rock back and forth some. I t looks like there is a low spot in the frame that rides just under the where the main tube is welded to the cup. This would actually be a high spot in the connector. Later I'll try and edit a picture that I took last time to show everyone what I'm talking about.

The floorboards needed some more pounding, but nothing too much.

I'm not sure how well a slip fit cat would work, definately better clearance but it may still hang lower than what it is now. Also, the slip fit could be really fun to work with since taking it apart is required. That is a 3 inch exhaust in the pic I posted.

I wouldn't want to put too much pressure on the jack to do this since it will lift the car quite a bit. That just doesn't sound like the safest idea. Don't get me wrong, I used a jack to hold them in place and for a little pressure. It just wasn't all that much pressure.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Played with mine a lot today too. I didn't cut mine open at all, but I did make 3 mods:

1- I cut a notch in the top of the cat flange. Looks like it'll fit great and not interfere with the SFCs;

2- I got a BFH and hammered the passenger side SFC a bit flat right where the tube makes the bend near the floorboard. I thought I'd bend the SFC and not the floorboards;

3- I drilled a hole in the driver's side front cup for the brake line clip hole so it will bolt right back where it's supposed to be.

I have pics of the notch and the SFC that I beat a bit flat and I'll post them in a bit.

I do have a small gap at the rear of the passenger front cup like TA does and here's why I have one. See if you can understand this description: The angle of the front cup of the SFC and the front subframe don't match. The front of the cup hits the subframe flush and flat, but then angles out as you get to the end of it and there's about a 3/8" gap. Nothing I can do about it since the tube is welded to the center plate of the cup and I can't bend it at all. I'll just try and fill the gap the best I can with the MIG.

Ed

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

i had the same problem. luckly i had my car on the alignment rack at work so i used the bfh and that closed the gap alittle bit on the passenger side but still doesnt fit good. i welded mine in, there in there really strong but i wanna pull that passenger side off and make a new mount or mod the other one.

gmgod

You guys have me worried a little, I bought the alstons a while back and will be installing them on my vert soon. What is the consensus on the passenger front cup? It seems like if it does'nt fit flush against the subframe it would'nt add a lot of strength. Will the almighty BFH not make it fit flush? BFH :rockon:

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

It's not gonna be a problem in my case but I bought the Alstons for 4 reasons: 1- I thought they'd be an easier install than the Spohns since you only weld the front and rear of both bars; 2- I already had Spohn SFCs on my Iroc and wanted to compare both parts in fit, quality, and install; 3- I have a little body panel damage under my RS that wouldn't allow me to install the passender side Spohn SFC along the siderail without some repair work done to the car; 4- I got them in a GP for $150 or so.

My Spohn install went much smoother already and I haven't even began the welding yet. I removed the heat shields on both cars and the passenger side Alston still hit the cat until I modded it and it was no problem on the Spohn SFC. The Alstons are good in quality but why is there a problem with the passenger side cup? After doing these for a while, that should NOT be an issue. No offense to Lon ad TDS, but maybe that's why Alston offered these SFCs at a cut price. This needs to be cleared up.


Ed

PS: And NO the BFH wont' help here. You'd need to bend the tubing with a big *** tubing bender to correct the angle enough to fix the problem and I sure don't have one. After beating on mine a bit with a 3 lb. sledge, mine are barely dented, but they clear what I needed them to.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

Here is the pic of how I wound up modifing the front cup. The red line shows where I cut the cup and bent it down. Since the front of the cup was touching the frame and the rear wasn't I figure that was the right place to make a cut. That corner was a tighter fit too. The arrow points to where I really opened up the side of the cup, no cut there. Now here here is the funny part, after I did all this the subframe connector seems to rock back and forth across the green line. I bent down the front of the connector up to the weld. From that point I obviously couldn't bend the weld any. There is still a gap at the rear of the front cup, but about half of what it was the last time.

Since this is a pic of the first attempt, I was able to move the connector forward a little and up further so that the top of the connector where it jumps the exhaust is almost touching the floorboard.

Goumba T

IN addition to what Ed said, I bought mine because it said no modifications to the car needed... which I assumed meant no modifications period. The heat shield had to be removed per the instructions (although I'm sure I could have just modified it, but the heat is a non issue anyway). I don't know if the floor pan was modified (doesn't look like it was though) - I had to take it to someone because I don't have the equipment. My biggest gripe was the interference with the cat flange. It drove me nuts until I was really able to get under the car and really pound it to simulate a bump - shaking the cat by hand didn't move the cat enough to show it.

Anyway I picked up some gasket material at Strauss today and gonna try that out before I try modding the flange.

Goumba T

Well, with my sfcs that's my only problem, so you may not have any problems.

However other mention having to mod floorpans, so its hard to say.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

SlowTA, I totally understand your description, and I may cut mine there to try and get a bit of the gap to go away, then just weld it back. Thanks for the pic.

Ed

gmgod

I see what you guys are saying now. Do you think this was just a bad run of them or what? This is the first time I have heard anything like this before.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

Glad I could help with the pic and idea. What I should have done was place some clay on the subframe connector to see exactly where it was touching the frame.

FYI, I only used a hack saw with a fairly new blade to make that cut. Didn't even take a minute. So no one has to go crazy breaking out the big saws to do that.

I know I heard about someone else having some trouble with the front passenger side cup before. I have a feeling these were made for the group purchase last year. I wish I could tell you if the new ones (or older ones for that matter) are the same way. Also, the directions say that you may have to bang in the floorboards a little. I guess there is some difference over the years?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I installed the Alstons in my car about 3 or 4 months ago, and I ran into the exact same little quirks as slow TA did. The way I fixed the problem with the convertor flange hitting was by messing with the rubber hanger that goes from the tranny tailshaft to the convertor flange. What I did was use the lower mounting bolt hole of the hanger in the upper hole of the convertor flange. This put enough downward tension on the exhaust to give me roughly an inch clearance between the convertor and the connector. I just left the other mounting bolt off. One bolt holds it just fine so far and keeps it clear of the connector. I also had some issues with how the front flange on the passenger connector fits up to the subframe. The existing holes that alston puts in the connector were too far apart and the back holes were in a position where the subframe was too thin for the bolts to pass through. So I just drilled two more holes in the connector closer to the front holes where they could get a good bite in more of the frame rail. I used a piece of masking tape across the connector flange to keep the holes straight across when drilling the new ones. Worked out just fine. I also noticed a gap where the back part of the front mount meets the subframe. I had mine welded later and the guy who welded them for me said it's not really even necessary to weld that part of the connector to the frame anyways. He said you get the most strength from welding the side rails of the connector mounts to the frame rails. He also welded the front part of the connector to the bottom of the frame rail as well. He must've known what he was talking about because I haven't had any problems with them since they were welded up. It's good that some of us are posting these minor problems with the Alstons because they sure don't mention them in the mickey mouse instructions that come with them. I wouldn't discourage anyone from using the Alstons though. I was quite happy with the end results.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Instructions??? You guys got instructions????

Huh....guess I might look for mine...

Ed

Mongoose

iTrader: (2)

Reading about all the problems with these Alston bars makes me glad I went with the Southside machine bars.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

*FURIOUS*

I bought my Alston SFC's under a group purchase back when this site had less than 10,000 members. I paid good money for them, and they're absolute garbage. I took the advice of members who said they fit great and didn't require modifications, etc...
Now I have a horrible clunking noise that I've been fighting with for 4 YEARS!!!. The first thing people ask me when they ride in the car is "what's that horrible extremely loud clunking noise?" This isn't a minor annoyance, this is a faulty product that requires extreme fabrication to work properly.

At this point I'm not sure what options I have. It's not like I can simply unbolt them and send them back for a refund. I blamed the problem on every other part that could conceivably be to blame. I thought it was the Energy Suspension Tranny mount, I thought it was a bent factory dual cat Y-pipe, I thought it was a bad catalytic converter hanger assembly. All of these parts have been changed out with NEW OEM PARTS!!! and the problem is still there. So do I grind thru the welds and pull the things off? Do I hire a lawyer and attempt to seek retribution?

*/Furious*

In other words, for those that are considering these pieces of garbage... DONT BUY THEM. If they aren't on your car, don't install them.

BTW it doesn't even bother me that the installation had NO NOTICABLE EFFECT ON HANDLING, CREAKS, RATTLES, OR ANY OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT SFC'S SUPPOSEDLY RESOLVE.

Goumba T

I wouldn't call it fault because of the cat alone. The cups, yeah I'd say it though. The design worked before you stuck in a piece of steel tubing, now you don't have the clearance between the tubing and the cat flange so you get that thunk. Yeah it does suck, and they should warn you. When I asked this last fall about the clunking the only response I got was they were installed wrong, now everyone knows the problem?

I looked and see the problem now with the cup and how the guy who did the installation did nothing about it. never even mentioned it to me.

As for creaking several bodyshop guys have told me the SFCs will not eliminate it (or maybe just this design).

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

On my first F-body I had a cheap set of $80 subframe connectors welded on and they hit the exhaust. So instead of replacing the exhaust with factory stuff (since that is known to cause a problem) I had a custom y-pipe made when I did the exhaust. It only makes sense to do it this way instead of buying more of the same parts!!

After I moved mine around some I think I will be OK if I take a chunk out of the flange, some of that EGR repair tubing may be needed as a cushion.

I'm still not too pissed about how the installation went. I mean the driver side fit like a dream. I know I won't buy any stock replacement exhaust parts for it. Thats why people work in small performance exhaust shops.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Sure glad I got the Spohns for my dual cat Formy....

Sorry you're having so much trouble with the Alstons. I almost bought those, too. :nono:


- Vern

BretD 88GTA

I've talked with Lon at TDS and he was interested in knowing if anyone has attempted to contact Alston before hacking up their SFC's?

I sold my 1st design Spohn square tube SFC's and opted for the Alston's. The Alston's are lighter in weight and I preferred the design.

The set I have came from the TDS GP batch. Since I have yet to install them on the car, reading this thread makes me wonder if I too will have a problem.

If there's no good solution to this, then I may opt for the Global West SFC's. First though, I think we need to talk with Alston and see what they have to say.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

I just had a long conversation with Alston Racing about the SFC fittment issue. First let me give you a little history. Alston has been making this design of SFC since 1983 or 84. They have gone through a few design changes through the years, mostly to increase productivity. The most recent change was from stamped and welded mounting cups to laser-cut and formed mounting cups. Coincidently that change happened the same time as my SFC GP was built. Here's the kicker though, the welding fixture for the SFC's remained unchanged . Also the front cup on the passenger side that you guys are having trouble with is still built from individual pieces that are bent at Alston and welded in the fixture. A few customers have complained about the fittment issue from this laser-cut batch. One was local and brought the SFC's in and to show the problem to Alston and had Alston install them. The problem turned out to be that the SFC's were not being installed far enough forward. It did take a little persuasion with a hammer, but they went in fine. If the SFC isn't installed far enough forward it WILL cause all the symptoms you're describing (hitting the floor board, hitting the cat flange). The recommendation was to use a bottle jack or floor jack to push that front cup into place. Also take a look at the car subframe where it mounts. Sometimes there will be scratches on it. That is an indication that the car has bottomed out which can spread the subframe slightly. If that is the case take a die grinder and get the clearance you need again. I don't know if you'll be able to persuade the subframe back with a BFH.

If you're still having problems with the installation please contact Alston Racing before you modify the SFC's. The phone number and address of Alston Racing are on the bottom of the instruction sheet. I know Ed you lost yours (or didn't get them), so I'll post their contact information here too:

Alston Racing
248 Depot St.
Antioch, IL 60002
847-395-3500

Contact Mike Ruth. He was involved with the original design of teh SFC's and will be happy to help you out. He also informs me that Alston still installs roughly 1-2 of these SFC's a week for local customers.

Thanks,

Lon Salgren
Top-Down Solutions

PS: Trust me I'm also very concerned that you guys are having fittment issues. Especially since I've also got another 50 piece order in process in preparation to offer another SFC GP. I REALLY want to be sure this is resolved.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Something else that came up in conversation with Mike Ruth. Make sure that there is no weld bumps inside the cup preventing the cup from fitting tight to the subframe.

I have opened up the GP for these SFC's again. You can click on my banner link at the top. GP1 & GP2 are both available again.

Thanks,

Lon Salgren

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

Hey Lon, thanks for checking in with us. I see what you say about checking for welds on the inside of the cup, I took down a small weld that probably wouldn't have made a difference anyway. In this pic you can see that there isn't too much room for the connector to move forward any without hitting the crossmember. On my second attempt at this side I was able to move the connector forward about 1/4". Is the front cup supposed to sit up against the crossmember? I have to get back in there when it gets welded so I can move it around then. I tried hammering it forward some more, but that is as far as it went. Also, I have to say that the bolts for this cup were a little long, thats why there are a small stack of washers. I used washers on all the bolts anyway.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I think all of them will fit a bit different...I have about an inch between the crossmember and the front cup. Didn't get to fool with mine today, something came up.

Ed

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Damn Slow TA, I don't think there's really any way to get yours much more forward than you have it in that pic. I got mine about as far forward as Ed said his is if I remember right. I'd say you've got it where it needs to be. I also used washers on all my bolts too when I installed them, stacking several of them on some of the bolts. Of course the bolts are really mostly there for just decoration after getting them welded up, plus maybe good insurance in case a weld ever happens to fail, which is why I left the bolts there. It's unlikely that would ever happen, but ya never know.

bes217

I don't know why you guys have so many problems with these SFC's. Mine went in with no problem at all, and the fit was dead on.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for posting, Lon, nice to have that follow up customer service your now famous for... We need more guys like you in the business.

I have nice smooth cups with no weld rash so that's not an issue for me. It's just hard to fathom that if the jig for them is unchanged then why is that one front cup so far off with the angle at the back? You'd think they'd just have a section of an old car to fit them up on before they went out...that's what I'd do, and maybe they do.

Bes, I dont' really have a "problem" with mine, it's nothing I can't fix. It's just that the fit is not what I want on my car. I can weld them in as is and it wouldn't be an issue but not on my car. It's gotta be better, and it's what I expect from a company like Alston.


Ed

Matthew91-Z28

Trust me when I say I'm not trying to "rub it in".....this is for everyone considering SFC's. I bought the MAC weld on SFC's ($150) 2 years ago. Connect the same points as the the Alstons do but have a diff design...Absolutely NO hassle. I had them welded on by a muffler shop who had never done it before and without instructions. From the way the SFC's looked, it was easy enough to imagine how they fit and just tack them in place and finish the welds.


I do suffer a bit of decreased clearance, but they fit well and do what they were designed for.

I guess I'm adding this so people don't start thinking that all SFC's that connect the subframe points directly like Mac and Alston are the same.

Not sure what to tell you about how to get those Alstons to fit right if you have bought them already. If you could return them, maybe that would be easier. But if you have started installation, keep doing like you are doing and figure it out as you go. Sorry about the crappy issues, though.

Good luck.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

In my case my SFC's have been on the car for a long time. I remember using a large rubber mallet and a floor jack/bottle jack on the passengers front cup. The car came off the ground before the gap was completely closed. The cup did not and still does not fit the front subframe. If it did I wouldn't have a clearance issue with the stock dual cat setup.

At the time the SFC's were installed the car was an all original 96,000 mile 91 Formula. There was no evidence of any previous encounters with the ground that I could blame for my fitment issues.

My complaint is that they were supposed to fit, and they didn't. I'm not a master metal worker and I didn't realize the problems that would result from not correcting the fitment issues. I don't think it should fall on the customer buying the part to reshape the front mounting point to make it fit properly. R&D at Alston should have caught these problems and corrected them before hand.

I'm really left without any options at this point, they're a permenant part of the car and there's nothing I can do to resolve the clunk short of modify the exhaust hangers to lower the exhaust to a point where its likely to bottom out and become damaged.

I blame the interference with the SFC's for the original cats getting rattles and the down pipes getting cracked.

Also, FYI MANY companies sell the Alston SFC's under their own brand name. Don't assume that just because its a different name that they're different. Mine were sold under the Internet Racing Supply 'Terminator' name. I've seen the same pieces marketed by at least 4 other companies under different names over the years.

I've managed to tame the rattle to only a couple of good clunks each time I drive the car, down from a constant repeated clunking every couple of minutes... Now it only clunks going over rough spots in roads. Older parts of town are more annoying than newer parts. Its still not acceptable...

TAdan

SlowTa, I had the exact same problem you did. I contacted Mike at Alston and shipped the pass. side bar back to him with a diagram of where the trouble was. He modified the bracket and now the bar fits perfectly. I have not installed the bars yet, but have test fitted them, and they both look good.
As far as the exhaust, I am running a stock single cat, so I am not too concerned.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Got them welded in yesterday. Overall not a bad install. I blew a hole in the pass front subframe that took a while to fix but the rest of it went in fine. Now I have to POR-15 the welds and fit the exhaust back up, and I think I'll still have to cut the cat flange a bit more to avoid any banging on the SFC. I'll get pics of it soon. I did cut a slot on each side of the pass front cup and bent the flat center part to sit flush on the subframe and it worked fine, then just pushed the brace up tight and welded it. Looks real good.

Ed

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Car is still on the jackstands as I haven't had the time to drop it yet. Here's a pic of the groove I cut in my cat flange. Hope the pic isn't too big as I'm still learning Photoshop.

Ed

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I hope you can tell by this pic here, but here's where I beat the tubing a bit flat to get it to sit closer against the floorboards instead of beating up the car. It's kinda in the center right behind the front tire of the car.

Ed