im looking now at chassis upgrades for my 86 camaro, cant decide between PARacing or SPohn... i mean everything, K-member, Control arms, crossmembers, etc etc... the whole shibang... i hvae heard very good things about spohn, but have not heard very much about PARacing, the one thing im really digging from PARacing is their K member with their manual rack and pinion kit, 15:1 ratio... I have seen one that spohn makes but have been unable to find specs on it... Also PAracings crossmembers are about 100 bucks cheaper than spohns, everything else is about the same price... would like advice on which way to go... and if anyone has experience with these could share some of them, good or bad... thank you!

Same Want to do LS swap and this at same time

i have all spohn. i do like the paracing k member though.

how much lighter is your car with the spohn stuff? do you have their k member? and all their other lightweight stuff?

i have not weighed my car yet. i just go it back on the road last week. No i do not have their k member yet. it's a nice piece. 2 friends of mine have pa racing k members which are also very nice.

cool. because i was thinking about the paracing k member with their manual rack kit...
but i really would like to get it all from one place but i read something on here about their crossmembers not fitting right with a t56...
also, what benefits are there from their strut mounts besides the extra inch of travel on a lowered car?
thank you

Hey I have the PA racing k member, rack and pinion, a-arms, rear control arms, panhard bar relcoation kit. I went with spohn front and rear coil overs. I tryed to buy a PA torque arm for the 6 speed swap and it didn't work. Jason did try to make a custom mount for me but after 2 attempts I gave up on that. I have to measure the travel on my rack but it is a flaming river piece. Only issue I had is that you have to shim the rack up a little on one side to cut and relocate the mount for the rack to get the steering shaft to clear the motor mount. Over all I really like doing business with PA racing it's a smaller shop. Just make sure you talk to Jason when you make your order. He's the owner and a stand up guy.

I'm trying to decide between PA Racing and racecraft inc. ( http://www.racecraft.com/ ), check out the website and you can see they have very similar products, and in another thread on here it was mentioned racecraft was founded by someone from pa racing.

Wait, they make manual steering racks for a third gen? HOT!

cool, i heard about the torque arm and crossmember problem, so i fugured id go with spohn for that, but id get their own manual rack and pinion set, its a nice 15:1 ratio.
and the price is really nice too, 350 to spohns 460...
i am anxious to see how much lighter the front end will be, all im runnign is gonna be an alternator and water pump, its gonna be sweet...
thanks for the info guys.

The other thing to remember is that rack has an inch less travel side to side so you will need racecraft spindles if you want to maintain your stock turning radius. Also the spohn transmission crossmember didn't fit my car because I have alston frame connectors the 2 hit eachother. I modified the spohn piece to fit cause I had to get the car moved. I'm going to contact Jason this week to see if I can get some more measurements for him and get another piece made to fit.

Saabster the rack isn't third gen specific at all. My PA kit came with a flaming river pinto rack. It's the crossmember that is made specifically for the 3rd gen.

oh well im gonna use the spohn or paracing sub connectors, just to kinda evade that problem, thats why i was asking because if i get parts from the same place then nothing should really interfere with eachother, but if i ge the paracing spindles will the turn radius also remain the same? or do i need the racecraft spindles specifically?
or, what if i got the rack mounts for a 4th gen rack setup would that work? im mainly looking for a manual form of steering, and cant find a steering box with more than 20:1 ratio... so the rack was the way to go i figured.

I don't know about the Spohn rack and pinion kit. I looked on their website and there is a picture but no listing that I found with any information on their kit. Far as the spindles go yes they are specific to the manual rack setup, because the arm where the outer tierod bolts up is shorter to compensate for the reduced throw length of the rack and pinion. Racecraft is the only I know of that currently offers them. No clue on the 4th gen racks I don't think they have the right throw distance either. There is a particular year ford turbo coupe power rack that has the right throw length. Anyway there are a couple thread already on that mod. The long and short of it is if you want a manual rack you need different spindles to keep stock turning radius.

well besides weight... whats the benefit of a rack type steering vs steering box?
because if i could get a pitman arm to use a manual 12:1 steering box for 70-81 camaros it may end up being cheaper that way...
thanks

just more precise and better feel.
thats about it really.
btw, 12:1 manual will be a absolute PITA to park and drive at low speeds.
unless you have a 15"+ steering wheel, forget it.

i dont think it will be that bad... my old truck had a manual steering box, it was around 18:1... to me it was as easy to drive as powersteering... powersteering is too sensitive t me... so i imagine a 12:1 shouldnt be too too bad...

im just telling you from personal experience, that it will not be fun if you have to parallel park every day

haha thank you... but i never parallel park... and i understand... but i like the manual steering... the tighter the beter...

Just so you now, you want to use S-10 manual steering parts, they work great and low speed turning is not that bad,still sucks but thats the price, have helped do a 1974 Camaro and a 1986 Iroc and we used Auto Zone S-10 parts to convert to manual steering. Works like stock, used the steering gear box, pitman arm, rag joint and lower steering shaft.

i just checked the spohn rack kit and according to them you dont have to drill out the spindles or anything, so i imagine its a direct fit... its a 3.75 turn from lock to lock... does that mean that from the center it takes 3.75 turns to lock to either sid or from one side all the way to the other it takes 3.75 turns to lock?
and if the same manual steering box fit on a 74 camaro that would technically mean that a box from a 2nd gen camaro would work on a third gen?
thanks

are u talking about the t56 transmission x-member? how much it interfere with the alston frame connectors? did u just have to cut then a little bit? just want know before i order them. also were urs the bolt in style or weld?

A spohn crossmember won't work with alston sfcs unless you cut about 3 to 4 inches off the transmission crossmember because of how they design them. I'm not happy with the setup and need to get ahold of Jason since I still have is prototype and now have access to lifts again at work so I could take some measurements for him to fab up a true bolt in one. His style uses tubing and would actually clear the sfcs without any extra modification. The problem was we were trying to colaborate to build the thing over the phone and internet which led to some issues.

3.75 turns lock to lock is haw many turns it takes to turn the wheels all the way from the left to the right.

well thats not too bad, 3.75 turns lock to lock then... ill have to call to make sure about it not affecting the turn radius; on the site it said you dont have to anything to the spindles but id wanna make sure that the turn radius will stay the same...
also, spohn has delsphere joints for just about everything they sell whats the difference between that and a regular rod end?

Well I made the swap on my 92 camaro with the spohn k member with the rack and pinion, but I had a problem with the steering linkage. My rack and pinion brackets were not in the right place so this made the steering rod universals bind up from the steering colluom to the rack. I had to send the rack and pinion back because I would have to relocate the brackets.
Another thing about the Spohn manual rack and pinion set up is that it is not intended for autocrossing or road racing, Its only good for drag racing. The manual rack and pinion from spohn is 3.75 turns of the steering wheel lock to lock. I am currently working on my own set up for power rack and pinion steering for 3 gen camaros because no one else offers it. I should be ready for production in 3 months. But good luck with the upgrades

u think u can get me pictures of what ur talking about? would i be able to make it work? is there another set of frame connectors similar to the alstons i can get that would work?

Ya I can probably put the car on a lift and take some pictures later this week. Far as that style frame connector just bolting and welding in on the car with the Spohn x member I doubt it cause of how far back the spohn mount goes.

hmmm. ok if you can get me pictures that would be greatly appreciated. i wanted to do both perimiter style and the alston style connectors but if the alstons are gona create a big problem im gona have to figure somthing out so pics would help alot