89_RS

Just found this on Flaming Rivers website. They are making Power Rack & Pinion's now with more than 6" of throw. The manual rack of theres that Spohn sells has only 5.25" of throw. And according to Flaming River, this rack is interchangeable with nearly all other manual rack mounts:

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.ph...005/FR40022PLN

Could someone (Spohn, UMI, BMR, Racecraft) get one of these guys made to fit our cars and have a K-Member mod kit or offer it in there tubular K-Member package so we can finally have some nice new steering to play with?

gsmarcano

one day I hope to put in a rack and pinion set up, after a new K member of course. I'll be following this one.

MotorMouth

I would love to ditch the out dated system our cars have for a rack-n-pinion setup.

fast377

iTrader: (4)

Good find! That is a great option for guys like me who have that old style pinto rack mount. I had to make a bracket to mount my mustang 2 power rack to the old pinto style. You wouldn't have to buy the drop spindles with the shortened steering arm either. Pretty hefty price though....but worth it if you don't have to buy new spindles.

WASyL

+1 for getting such kit with k-member

best regards

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

What about bump steer? I guess you probably don't care that much if your putting in a manual rack anyway, but a 24" center to center rack is going to have a ton of bumpsteer when you only have 17-18" between LCA mounting points and the tie rod is nearly inline with the a-arm.

A dirt/oval rack setup is pretty close center to center for the LCA mounting points, I'm not sure how much travel they have though. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Sweet-...ion,23875.html

houstonvett

iTrader: (2)

New spindles can make a world of difference when setting up a steering setup, especially in higher mileage cars. The bearings that ride on the spindle do wear it and there can be a lot of slop in that portion of the setup. A lot of people overlook this important part of the steering setup.

I hope the Flaming River rack is better then the 1 in use with the Steeroids type of setups. A $1400.00 add on for C3 Vettes, the kit uses a cheap Grand Am rack. The rack might be a $40.00 item at Auto Zone. I would do some checking on the quality/manufacturer of the rack that comes in the FR kit, it might just use the same rack as the Steeroids guys.

Lee Man. in Calf. is modifing my stock Z-28 box to a 9:1 steering box right now. Tom is setting up the PS pump to accomadate a Hydroboost system also. Tom installs a heavy feeling PS valve so you will get very close to a R&P feeling in the steering. The stock GM steering pieces are heavy duty in their design and last a very long time. I will be updating my base model 84 with a Spohn coil over/A frame package and a tubular K frame. This base model guy should handle a little better then it did out when it came out of the factory.

A lot better racks are available to the aftermarket guys then the Pinto/Grand Am garbage some use in their setups. The steering system will only be as strong as it's weakest link, just like a chain is.

89_RS

Its a power rack & pinion, not a manual one. Aren't bumpsteer kits meant to correct bumpsteer anyway? Thats what I always thought a bumpsteer kit is for. Also, most new cars use a power rack with an electro-hydraulic power steering pump. Far better steering response, feel, and setup IMHO. If you've driven anything 2005ish or newer, its more than likely got a setup just like that. The 4th gen has a power rack and people absolutely love it. Alot of the import manufactures introduced the power rack with an electro-hydraulic power steering pump in the mid 90's and by the early 2000's it had become standard. I've driven quite a few 2005 and newer cars and that setup is so far superior to the thirdgen setup its not even funny.

Problem with that is that the newest spindles made for our cars were made 18 years ago and the only new option is for drop spindles from Racecraft. And alot of us don't want or need drop spindles, but we would all love a newer version of the stock spindle.

Flaming River states on its own website that they make all their parts in themselves. Judging by both price and reviews of the Pinto manual rack that several members here use, I'd be hard pressed to say that the power racks will be low quality. In fact, their new power racks look very similar to the Appleton power rack. Appleton apparently sold a power rack for our cars a while ago, but something happened and no one has seen them since. Their website is a wreck and judging just by the age of the posts about the Appleton power rack (from 2001-2003 time frame) they seem to have gone out of business, but I could be wrong. Maybe FR bought the rights to make the Appleton rack, in which case, several members have already given the Appleton rack raving reviews.

And be prepared for a very high price. Someone on here not to long ago talked about his Lee power steering box. He listed specs very similar to yours and he gave it rave reviews, but he also shelled out something like $850-$1000 for it too. Thats out of most peoples price range. Heck, decent power steering all told will be about $750, $300 for a rebuild kit, and $450 for a re-manufactured stock spec pump and that pushing it for most people. If this $650 power rack is a direct bolt in swap for the current Pinto setup, its automatically worth it to most people. Albeit, you'd need to mod the K-Member or buy a tubular one with the mounts built in.

That is true, but the FR Pinto rack is the current bolt in rack & pinion option for us (FR PT# FR-1501). It lists for about $230 on summit, but it lists for almost $700 at Spohn and BMR. Reason for that is that they do alot of work to make it a direct fit to our cars. The only other option is to spend $300 on a front end rebuild kit from Spohn, almost $500 for the same thing from Hotchkiss, or just go through a BOM of the front end and piece one together ourselves.

houstonvett

iTrader: (2)

GM has had EVOs in their racks since at least 1994, which is supposed to change the steering effort in the rack @ speed, I believe. As far as the spindles go I am amazed no aftermarket company has picked the ball up on this 1. There must be a lot of spindles on 3rd gen cars by now that are way out of OEM specs for the bearing clearance, I know mine is.

Tom at Lee isn't that bad on his price. Sending in my Z-28 steering box to get it to 9:1 cost about $340.00 for the parts and $200.00 for the labor. I am getting the PS pump from Tom also, which will be modified for the HB unit going in. I will post the price of that guy when I get it.

89_RS you are right about the Appleton units being good aftermarket racks. I believe the Appleton racks were made here in the USA, it would be interesting to see where the Flaming River guys are made. If FR uses a Appleton rack design and is made here in the USA, it would be head and shoulders above the Steeroids garbage rack kits.

In most of the rack conversion kits I have seen there are always universal couplings involved in the steering shaft. Some of the real cheap rack kits have a triple universal to make the steering work which is a real nightmare. Anytime you have the use of universal couplings in a steering shaft that in itself will create some slop in the steering system. I have not seen if any of the 3rd gen rack kits use universals in their design for the steering shaft. GM did build a very tough front end on the 3rd gen cars from the factory. Far from perfect, but the stock system can be refined to make it a tight and bulletproof for the most part. IMO, no aftermarket rack kit will be as bulletproof as the stock GM steering setup on these cars.

houstonvett

iTrader: (2)

I just talked to Charlie out @ Lees in Calf. and was given the price of $140.00 to re-build my old PS pump. With that price the boys @ Lee will also add an additional hose nipple on the PS pump for the Hydroboost return line. Very nice touch, IMO.

Charlie will rebuild the pump for slightly higher pressure and more volume. For about $700.00 you can have a very tight re-built steering box, re-built PS pump that will handle a Hydroboost unit and bolt right up to your factory pieces with no mods.

ASE doc

I agree with houstonvette on the stock steering system on our 3rd gens. I honestly was a little puzzled the first time I saw a rack & pinion conversion on a 3rd gen. Aside from trimming a little weight, I cant see any possible advantage. I drive rack and pinion cars all day and Im quite familiar with the variable assist steering systems. They are complex and given to problems and I dont like how they mask road feel.

The 3rd gen is the best handling F-body ever made and one of the best handling cars ever made (priced under $100K) period. Bump steer is virtually eliminated on the 3rd gen by the Macpherson strut suspension. I know the 3rd gen may not be the most comfortable car to drive. They have a harsh ride on any kind of rough road. But their cornering ability is beyond question.

I personally went with the AGR 12:1 box with track valving. ($300 from Summit) I find it to be the perfect balance for street and track use. The one thing I wish someone like Spohn would address is the weak factory idler arm. Moog makes an upgrade but even that allows more runout than it should.

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

For a price woodward, appleton, sweet, coleman, etc. will build you a custom rack to your specs, which I'm guessing is the majority of their business. Going manual w/o the servo and hydrualics should cut ~$400 off the cost of the rack, but I'm not sure if you can get slower ratio than 16:1. Still easily twice the cost of a pinto rack, but it should be a better fit for our chassis.
http://www.pitstopusa.com/SearchResu...ategoryID=9178

As for a bumpsteer, a bumpsteer kit is only a bandaid. Its only going to get bumpsteer into the ballpark for a limited amount of travel. If you raise or lower the car significantly with a rack thats way too long your going to have to recheck bumpsteer and adjust your outer tie rods. Your also using rod-ends and adding extra $$ and mantainance. My preference for a kit would be to make the rack itself height adjustable rather than the outer tie rods.

The big reason your not going to see a bolt on kit with one of these is most use rod-ends and I'm guessing the durability isn't there. Maybe someone with more experience with them can speak up. The other problem is exhaust, a rack low and towards the center puts the steering shaft close to the block and right through the middle of most headers on these cars.

For my application I have no need or want for variable speed or effort steering.

pc383iroc

Yes like me. I have spohns chromoly tubular k-member with that garbage pinto manual rack. Can anyone tell me if flaming rivers universal billet-steer power r&p will bolt in? Spohn couldn't tell me if it would or not. It looks to me like it should. The pillow blocks slide on the rack housing making it universal. But no one has been able to tell me if it will work or not. Please help. I don't want to spend $1200 on the r&p, pump, resivoir, etc and then have to send eveyyhing back if it doesn't work.

lunati397

Im in the planing stage of making a Kmember with a power rack setup and may possibly be a complete front end kit I found a rack that has a 2.0 turn to turn but when done it will be a complete front suspension

K member
A arms (yes upper and lower)
spindles
brakes
rack setup

SO you can get a rack big brakes tubular front end all in one kit but im in the planing now will be fabricating in the next month and testing and maybe have a product by early next year

mikesanto70

With this new rack and p set-up we get rid of our crappy steering boxes right? , Also does this cure that nasty wheel binding/skipping/tilt weird stuff that all third gens do when your doing a slow rack to rack u turn, I mean like a lock to lock turn, you know what I'm trying to say right? LOL....

mikesanto70

Sorry, 1 more thing, are you saying that this new rack set up will not fit if you have a tubular K member!!? I'm doing an LS3/A6 swap with a tubular K and long tubes, will this be an issue that you know of?

mikesanto70

Do you have anything built yet?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

no, that is an issue with the steering design/geometry, not the method of turning the wheels.

the install of the rack would be 100% custom, so you have to fabricate everything to install it. K-member, engine trans, exhaust really makes no real difference.

mikesanto70

It gets rid of the big heavy goofy stock steering box though right, its not an add on or continuation of it, sorry for the dumb questions for I don't know jack about steering / suspension stuff

mikesanto70

do you have any built yet

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Hear ya hear ya for roostmeyer, what he says is very important. You can not tailor the pivot to pivor distance on the tie rods w/ an end take off rack like you can with a center take off. Now, I too prefer the ETO but you have to select one with a piv-piv distance that suits your front arm geometry and if stock is 18"or thereabouts you can realistically only use something like an appleton, woodward or sweet racing rack (or similar) I have that on my corvette with only 15 or so inches of spacing btween the arms and I'm using a 16.25 rack.

Given the geometry and vertical position you can only use something a little longer than the arm to arm cross shaft (virtual shaft on these cars) distance

Ideally the pivots should line up w/ the angled dotted lines, this is for double a arms but analogous for McPherson type.