Mailman818

so i have a v6 firebird and i want to lower the car about 2 inches or so the wheels have a less gap. so the v6 springs i have i've read are super soft and i dont like bouncing around. also with the lower car id rather take my chances not bouncing and scraping everywhere i go. so should i get stiffer v8 springs so i dont bounce alot and have them cut? or should i just buy lowering springs and cut those too? also if i do get v8 springs how much higher will my car get if they were stock springs? planning on just going to junkyard to get springs but ea i read they had different stifnesses and then i got stumped kinda. also will a camaro set of springs fit or should i look for firebird v8 ones? thanks

-Aaron

morrow

camaro springs are the same, you can cut them to sit at the right rie hight that you want, im currently running hotchkis lowering springs for a v8 and i cut the front 1 coil and the back 2 and a half i think, but when you cut one coil off the front it will drop it on to your bump stops, so you can either put a poly isolator for less vibration, which is what i did, orrr you can just cut half a coil and see were they sit and then trim off more if needed, there is a pic of my camaro under project iris. i believe its droped 2.5 in the front and 2 in the back, but i dont honestly remember for sure, ill have to measer my fender hight. but even befor i cut them it did sitt at stock hight but was much stiffer and handeld was better. i personaly like the setup and it performs very well, im also using the hotchkis swaybars too.

Mailman818

ahh ok well im also planning on getting rims soon so should i wait to lower when i get a set of rims or should i drop it now and mess with the new rims later?

morrow

its realy up to you, i lowered mine before i changed my wheels and tires, , in my opinion it is best to lower it first , because then you can get you wheels and tires ordered that fit correctly with your setup, im going to be using 18,X8.5 in front and 18X10 out back, xxr 521 wheels probably 35 mm offset in front and 20mm offset in back

Mailman818

awesome. well i guess ill wait a bit since a friends going to trade me some irocs with new tires for my posi rear end when i fix it and test it.

project89

iTrader: (1)

v6 and v8 springs are not the same, buy the proper v6 lowering springs or u will hate driving the car

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Cut v6 springs are going to be a LOT stiffer than uncut v8 springs. I know guys who run cut v6 springs in their v8 cars as a good way to lower the car without the v8 springs being absolutely unbearably stiff.

Once you cut a half coil off the v6 springs you're gonna be right around a v8 spring in stiffness. I dont think v6 lowering springs are made so your only option may be just to cut what you have, but I guarantee you cutting what you have to get a 2 inch drop will be a LOT better than cutting v8 springs to do the same.

You better have good shocks to control the increased stiffness of those springs though. Shocks just dampen the oscillations of a spring. A cut spring is stiffer than a factory spring, and it's shorter which puts the shock at a different operating height. So the oscillations are harder for the shock to control - that's why cut-spring cars can sometimes be bouncy. It isnt becuase the spring is weak, it's because it's too strong.

I have cut IROC springs in my RS, and I wish I still had my softer RS springs to be honest. But as stiff as my car rides, my Koni's keep the car from bouncing. The only bouncing my car does is strictly related to the tires.

project89

iTrader: (1)

they do make v6 lowering springs, they are just a lil tough to find now, try on ebay

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I have 1 coil cut off of some stock V6 springs, it's fairly stiff and handles excellent. I'll try to get a pic of the ride height.


Changing front springs in these cars is not fun.. be warned.

morrow

doing front springs is easy, just gota have a plan of attack, idk about cutting a v6 spring and how it feels, i havent done it... i do know however , that a cut v8 spring still rides nice to me, not too stiff... on the other hand, shocks and struts do come into play with that as well. the hotchkis rears were to soft for me to start with because they are a progresive weight spring. i cut two of the softer coils and i love it , not too stiff, very predictable in the corners. granted i wanted to lower it more anyway so cutting the coils helped with that to. i cut one coil out of the front , and it rides nice and smooth on the free way, and in the corners it stays planted as well. by cutting one coil in the front it droped onto its bump stops. but i wanted a coil isolater in the front to help with vibration anyway so that picked the front end back up again to the hight that i wanted it at, and now i have no vibration, and the ride hight is were i want it. ....as for cutting v8 springs and there stiffnes? it all depends what springs you get and how much you cut... hotchkis spring are difrent the eibach, eibach even makes two difrent sets with difrent spring rates. of you can figure out exactly what weight you need like vetruck did, and go that route... there are many ways of attacking this subject, and in the end it all comes down to geomitry, personal prefrence and driver feel....... some times trial and error is the best way to find your sweet spot

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

all this v6 cut springs stuff is laughable.

nope sorry, not true. I have 4.8" cut off my stock v6 springs (on weight jacks) and from online calculators, they are only mid 500's rate now, and not stiff enough for my v6 car.. Not a v8 rate by any means, and i cut almost 3 coil off. I have new 750lb springs waiting to go in this winter, im hoping thats enough.

even with koni yellows, i bottom them out way to easily

you guys are probably hitting the bump stops, making the front feel stiffer

morrow

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

Not everyone wants their car to ride like a dump truck.



Pic didn't come out but with the IROC 16's and stock size tires i have 26 3/4" from the ground to the top of the fender lip with 1 coil cut from V6 springs. My engine is a little lighter than a stock v6 though.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

That's interesting to know. Now that you mention it, my buddy with the v8 car that rolls on cut v6 springs has one of the lightest 3rd gens I've ever heard of...

Thanks for clearing that up. Saves me the trouble of seeking out v6 springs for lowering purposes one day!

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Try looking around for Dropzone lowering springs. I've had them on my v6 for 7 years now, love em!!!! Try a search on here, I know Ive posted links to sites that carry them in the past, see what you can dig up before you cut them.

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

Was doing some looking for V6 Eibach Sportlines, I assume there isn't a set for the V6?

Mailman818

ahh alright i see now. well thank for the info. im probably just going to buy both sets from a junkyard and see what work better for me. i have brand new monroe struts and shock absorbers so i guess itll handle the cut springs.

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

cutting the spring is not gonna make it stiffer or softer, the only thing that does is change ride height and hub travel distance, not only is cutting is not a proper way to lower it ( because they are designed the way they are for a reason) but it also changes the angles of your suspension, such as sai angle, camber, toe. etc. and the angle of the tie rods. all these things are gonna effect the way the car steers handles and absorbs wheel oscelation . components may not last as long and it will also effect steering wheel returnability, why lower it anyway, i cant even get a jack under mine from the front. lowering too much can also cause binding in steering and suspension components. if you do lower, make sure all these check out and you get that aligned, if its possible to align with the drop. good luck. just some things to think about

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

lowering the car in general changes those things, cutting the springs wont, by itself, do all that.

cutting a spring will change the rate, its not as drastic as some people make it seem, but it does change the rate.

Aaron_SK

iTrader: (1)

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

K=(G*D^4)/(8*N*C^3)
K= spring constant (rate)
G= modulus (flexibility of the steel)
D= wire diameter
N= number of coils
C= coil diameter (distance across the spring from one side to the other)

Assuming all else is equal (since that's how this works, they are the same spring with the same material after cutting), if you start with 10 coils and chop off 5 of them, then the denominator of our formula is less, by a factor of 5, than it was previously. As you decrease teh value of the denominator, the value of the fraction increases. 10/10->10/5. So yes, it DOES make it stiffer or softer. That IS the formula.

I also see nothing wrong with cutting springs in moderation.

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

ok so maybe it does change softness slightly, what happens when you have a spring that has ,for example, with a ten inch spring you have one inch of movement ,for lets just say 150 lbs of pressure. is a 9 inch spring of the same size (diameter) really gonna change the movement that much? heavy duty applications have a shorter spring, but the diameter of the coil itself is thicker, that contributes to why it is stiffer. i do agree that a shorter spring would give you better handling, but that is the only advantage i can see. also cutting and welding springs changes the structure of the steel , you can soften or harden it, depending on how it is cooled, either way it is gonna effect the life of that spring, or the brittleness. now lets say you cut too much off that spring, you might as well weld the suspension solid cause all you do is hit bump stops,(which makes the shock absorbers useless). that will make for a stiffer ride i suppose. in regaurds to your "formula" that is kind of interesting i have to say. but that does not take into account all the other factors.

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

oh ya, cutting the springs by themselves will do all that.

shorter spring puts camber more neg. when aligning it back closer to positive you change sai angle, which changes wheel returnability and road feel

when the centerlink is level with the lower control arm you have the best position, when you lower it, it is not in-line correctly, lowering too much can cause binding, can also shorten component life

it does change toe, but that is the easy one to re-adjust

so when you deal with suspension, when you change one thing, you ultimately change many things, just saying that all these will need to be re aligned, or modified to work with extreme drops or lifts