614Streets

Whos the fastest tbi car / truck on here?
I think my tbi v6 will be in the mid 13's to high 12's from a 2.8.
Should be done in two months, and tuned in by next spring.

Set up is a brand new kf roots(fresh) blown 2.8 with trw forgings, paw moly rings gapped for boost and juice, 100 shot, 670 cfm tbi commander system with true duel header system. Boost should be anywhere from 12-20 psi max with an 8-10 crusing boost. Cam is a lowly 218 228 with .450 .480 + 1.6 ratio. 6500 max to save bottom end.

All of it is set up with a tech edge 2.0 wide band set up running into a world class 5 speed with a built 7.5 stuffed with 4.10's

Should put out about 400 ft lbs and about 350 hp I hope.

305RSlc

LOL! Or you could've stuffed a blown 350 into your car, pushing out 500hp, and 550 lb/ft!!!! Add that 100 shot and you'd be hitting mid 11's to 10's. That is just what I would do....But hey, kudos for going against the grain. You still have the 2.8 tag on your rear bumber??? It would be funny to smash an unsuspecting vette thinking you are the stock v6....have fun, and keep us posted!
Lc

614Streets

Hehe yup thats why I got a blown 355 in my Nova, this is just a driver/ mild build up.

r90camarors

Check my sig. Unfortuantly, those times where on a blown header gasket, engine temp of 200*+, and 85* outside. The chip was untuned as well (still is). I may mess around with tuning it in a little better, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with a holley mpfi system. Best of luck with your project
Who knows, I may have to spray it and get some better times with that 2bbl TBI on there, then I wouldn't even think about letting a 2.8 come close to my traps

614Streets

Awesome car man, the 383 sounds like it has potential for 12's!
I bet with wideband and a stand alone ecu you could pick up 40-50 hp.

I used to be in the mid to hig 14's with my old 2.8 which just had a 400 tbi, and somejuice basically, and it was a tired 2.8 lol. I think If I lay down some good numbers some of the v8 guys are going to have to step up! On the other hand Maybe it wont trap high and It'll be a flop!

Dewey316

i'm looking like i'll be in the 13's with my 305, that is of course before i add a couple of turbo's ohh yeah, and about 122 extra cubes

brodyscamaro

Only 13s outta a TT 427

Dewey316

i used the word 'before' with the heads/cam/intake i am doing, i am pretty confident 13's should be doable. for this i will still be using TBI and the stock computer/sensors.

when i do the turbo thing, i will be swapping to an aftermarket ECU with a 2 or 3 bar MAP. i will also be heading away from a TBI system, in favor of a dry flow TB, with injector bosses added to the manifold. but thats the nature of the beast. when i do finaly get off my lazy **** and get started with the turbo project, it will probably stay fairly mild (relativly for a TT 427 ) and i'll probably keep it in the 750-850 HP range.

r90camarors

Dewey,
Is there a good place to send the manifold for those injector bosses? I've decided on the same type of system, and was curious on how to mod the manifold.

Dewey316

dont know, that is a long ways off for me still, lots to do before that.

you can also buy manifolds with injector bosses already in them, try calling holley, or edelbrock, they should sell them, might be a little more than a standard manifold, but at most i would guess 300-350 range.

miacamaro305

hey good idea for a v6.i plan to the best 14.0 1/4, on my 89 305 tbi all motor then with some juice 13.0 or less though i putting parts to mu engine basically all forged then i going to bluid like a 500 hp all motor 383 and drop it in with a 454 tbi bored out exc.hopefully then i run 12 flat then i dont want anything faster 12's is my goal

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Don't want to disappoint you but 12 flat with a 454 TBI just won't happen: ever.

Chuck!

*** I wish life were this easy.

Dewey316

it could if you are adding oxygen in a liquid form

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

We all have dreams of serious 305's and how they are going to be the best and fastest, than our alarm clocks go off and we have to wake up.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

I counted 3 "Shoulds", 1 "I think", and 1 "I hope" in that post



Sorry for the interruption folks, back to your regularly scheduled real world.

614Streets

True man because I know all to well it could be a flop, the only thing I have to base that on is the previous motor which went 14's with a couple bolt ons and a 100 shot. So add a new engine with the goods and a aftermarket stand alone ecu and YUP IHOPE It does better. I know Its going to cut a great 60' time. My best 60' time was a 1.92 which is respectable for a tired 2.8 v6. Anyways Its dam backorders that are killing me! Arrgg!

txhotRS

DONT UNDERESTIMATE UNDERDOGS, or STUBBORN CAR GUYS... I have a FAST 305 TBI car.... I spent the extra money... BUT I HAVE ONE (because they said you couldn't do it)... My 305(lo3) TBI, holds down about 340 HP and close to 400 ft/lbs. of torque... (at the engine)... so about 310-315 HP at the rear
of course, I'm using so many mods to get there..... IT'S ALL MOTOR THOUGH... just look at my sig.
I was going to get a 355, but I ran out of money, and wanted my car... so, everything worked out, I used some of the parts on the 305 (except the heads) and now I get tell people that I whooped them with a 305, and when they don't believe me... I open the hood and point to where it says "5.0" on the back of the block

oh, and that "670" cfm is crap... mine's with a STOCK tbi unit... well, I did ultimate mods, and have spacers, and upgraded injectors, and a chip, and an air funnel, and a 360* cleaner, and a ram air... (so maybe not stock, but it was at one time)
People laugh, UNTIL I SHOW 'EM a 13.7 @101...time card (on street tires)

KUDOS and PROPS to those of you who did something just to be different... Good luck, and where there is a will (and a decent sized wallet) there is a way

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

That is great man. You are pretty much the only one that has had success. I have some much needed answers from someone who has made it like you and has a heads and cam car that runs the way it is supposed to.

Ok here is the car.
It is Chuck! on this board and him and I hang and wrench all the time.

he has,

305 TBI
Milled and machined Vortecs
LT1 cam out of '97SS
Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake
255 Walbro Pump
3.42 LS1 rear
2400 stall
Ultimate TBI mods.
Full 3" exhaust with Hooker headers and high flow 3" cat
And custom tuning curtousy of himself

The car has no low end and when you get it up in the rpm's it feels nice but struggles to get air. He can give specifics on the daa logging i do not have that with me. But you can actualy hear the thing starving for air. Its got fuel, spark, etc. We have narrowed it down to TBI becuase that is literally the only thing left to replace.


What injectors are you using? And at what PSI are they run at?
Where or who did you get your chip from?
What is your stall/rear end gear?
How is your low end?

614Streets

txhotRS your 305 timeslip is impressive for that car and still has 3.08's? nice. Yeah I am going to have so much fun in 2004 both car and truck are making their debut , people will be scratching their heads. I can say with confidence the 75 nova will go easy tens, and easy 9's. The cars are so folk for chevrolets its scary. I would definately catogorize myself as stubborn when it comes to the truck, it was never meant to be a builder but thats what happens. The nova is pure bread and butter with lots of soul spice(mucho $). I cannot wait to come off the 5 k stall on the t brake wheels up with the 355 33% overdriven.
Regardless both will turn some heads next year. I promise...:hail:

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

txhotrs,
How did you do the custom chip for that combo? Did you program it yourself?

txhotRS

ok guys... first I did not do my chip tuning.. (tbichips.com) and it's a custom chip, but the way it worked, I'm pretty sure that it was just luck that it worked with my setup.
rearend... it's in my sig... but it's a 3.08 posi... and I don't need a stall because it's a 5-speed.
I have 55lb injectors, set between 13-15 (the gauge isn't perfect, so, I'm not positive)
Oh, about the cam... I was going to use an LT1 cam... but I actually installed a zz4 cam... it has a NICE lift/duration... lift is .474/.510 and duration is 208/221, with a 112 lobe seperation so it still works with a computer... IT'S AWESOME, decent mileage and a really pretty growl at idle.
The heads I used were actually 305 heads (58cc for compression) so that the valves wouldn't be shrouded, BUT I got the valves cut to 1.94/1.6... the heads have a bowl blend/ gasket match/ cut-backs... EVERYTHING... I use .600 springs, so that I can fit 1.6 roller rockers , and everything for my intake is pretty much in my sig
I knew what I was putting together, BUT I had NO idea it would be such a good combo.
any other questions... comments... let me know

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I re-read your you sig after my post so sorry about the obvious answers in front of my face. Anyways, does your low end suffer because of those gears? That cam loves high rpm and with the 3.08's you start pretty low. I have the 3.08's in my car with the 5 speed. What posi do you have? I didn't think they make a 2 series carrier posi for the 3.08. gear. What rpm do you shift at? Do you feel your car suffer past 5k rpm. Don't you here the thing starving for air? I am very intrigued here. What fuel pump are you running? And did you port your stock LO3 heads. If so, I do not think you will get the numbers you stated. No doubt your combo makes power but I think those heads are killing you and I think it is impossible to make 350 horse with them. I know they are fitted with bigger vlaves and they are ported but the mere desgin of those things is atrotious, worked or not. I just don't belive that your stock TBI unit can supply enough air for that thing. It is only a 450cfm unit.

txhotRS

whoa, whoa... who said ANYTHING about lo3 heads.... NO WAY, that wouldn't be possible... mine are aftermarket.... but still for a 305 (world product SR TORQUER 305's, WITH all the additional work done to them (like I said,, where there is a will (AND A BIG WALLET) there is a way...
About the TBI, it's probably closer to 550 cfm, or so... I've "disected" a few tbi's before to get an idea of the "enemy" and there is enough room to take off a sizable amount of metal in the ultimate mods... I also use injector spacers, and a TBI unit spacer.... plus, I designed and made a "funnel" on the inside of the cleaner... so when air hits the funnel, it gets directed STRAIGHT into the bores... that in combo with a "ram-air-box" designed for the 360* cleaner, forces enough air in the engine to not only keep her purring, but to increase my mileage too. basically when the air actually gets to the intake, it's probably closer to the 600+ cfm range... when the air gets forced in... more air fits... like with a supercharger... it's the same sized intakes... but there is enough air moving in to increase compression by a few points... mine works on the same principle, BUT to a much lesser extent, and the fuel delivery is fine because I have those 55lb injectors...

r90camarors

How is it that you make 340hp with two 55pph injectors? I could see it if they were set at 40psi, but not 13-15psi. Theoretically, they would only be good for 220hp if I remember the math correctly.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

r90camarors

Chuck!

If you are running 340 hp at 15 psi with 55 pph injectors then you've proven the math formula is about 50% off from where it should be. That is unless you're spraying, then its anyone's ball game.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

If you do not have a supercharger or turbo you are NOT running compressed air. There is a limited amount of air you can squeeze through an opening. You do not just make "ait fit." The opening in your intake has 2 1 11/16" bores. You have 4.47 in^2 of intake opening area. That is your limiting factor. Even if there wasn't an injector pod, or a hood, or anything above the bores, you cannot make more air go in to support the power that you claim. You do not have compressible flow until you have forced induction. No matter what you do, you cannot squeeze more air in. The area of your intake opening is the limiting factor of the amount of air that enters into your intake. Air is entering your intake at ambient conditions regaurdless of what you have done to your TBI unit. How do you increase your CFM 150 points with a spacer and ultimate mods? I do not want to get into complicated fluid mechanics. Another thing, 55lb injectors are only good till 220-230 hp no matter how you tune or build your motor. I am not saying that your car doesn't run strong, it may very well, but you do not have 350 hp.

91rs4life

my car runs like crap but, for some reason it runs high 13's when it is operating below 120* F. I'm afraid that if I fix it, it'll be slower.

350 + .040
4 bolt ( blah blah blah )
mystery cam. (yes I put it in. Yes I have problems...yes I put it in)
1.94/1.5 (whoop te doo)
aluminum rods
aluminum flat top dished pistons
305 aluminum 2 barrel intake
stock TBI tuned for 5.0 still (cause I don't know how to tune an ECM)
vac. reading at 7 inches. (more crap)
Stock trans
Stock *** end
stock stock stock stock stock

Oh I got a 160 thermo recently yeah that makes my car a rocket right there. move over LS1 crappy TBI 350 comin through.
P.S. my car looks as crappy as it runs too.

nick harmon

my dad and i were discussing a similar topic just two nights ago. i dont think the term he was looking for was turbocharging or supercharging, but maybe venturi efect. if he placed a cone shaped piece over his tb combined with a ram air setup then when the air comes through the cone its velocity would increase(venturi efect). with increased velocity wouldnt it be possible to up cfm because youre moving the air in at a faster rate. no need to answer rudely anyone, its just a theory/question.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I am not trying to be rude. Sorry if I came off that way. I am just very skeptical of his numbers and trying to give some validity to his claims. I was getting frustrated. The 305 is the devil and when you get a built one to run right, there is usualy some hidden flaw. That flaw is either in the owners claims or the car doesn't exist.

nick harmon

no doubt there. but i wasnt refering to you being rude, there are some people on here are rude about just about anything i post on here. its not so bad here lately. i was just saying that if someone was going to reply to my post that there was no need to be rude with me. and as far as his times go, if i were him i would scan and post the timeslips. not that that would really change the debate really but it might help his case just a little. because after reading several posts and several peoples sigs im not sure if totally believe him either

Dewey316

his engine combo just doesn't add up.

a) he doesn't have enough fuel to make that much HP.
b) he doesn't have enough air.

time slips or not. with the info he has given us, he can't be making that power. if there is something else going on, then sure it is possible. maybe he really has 85pph injectors, maybe he really has a 2" bore TBI (340hp even with a 2" bore, i would question), maybe he has a 10lbs tank in the back, that he isn't telling anyone about. maybe he forgot which lane was his on his timeslip who knows, all that we can say is that from the info he gave us in this post and others, none of us are buying his claims.

in another post he claimed he had 340hp and over 400tq, i asked for dyno sheets, he never replied.

he probably won't reply to this one anymore either.

nick harmon

lmao!

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

And another thing. If he did have 350 ***** he should be running faster than 13.7. Hell my 95 Z runs that and it supposedly has 275. He should be faster, but then again I do not buy the power claims or the times.

nick harmon

you are absolutely right on that. never took that into consideration.

r90camarors

Keep in mind that trap speeds are a better indicator of power, times are based a lot on traction and gearing.
I'm not saying I believe the guy, maybe some dyno sheets and time slips and I may start thinking that those 55pph injectors he says he has are actually 85pph. That is a stretch though.

91rs4life

I'm feeling on this one. seems that everytime I say something, it sounds too far fetched to everyone and they start asking me questions, only to tell me I didn't do it because it's not possible. For instance, the car above will run 13's so long as the engine stays below 120 degrees. And it's TBI. But, you don't know how many people will say, "you didn't run 13's." How do they know? I don't remember seeing them there. And usually the answers end with the general reasoning:
I have more work done to my car and it only runs 13's. If I didn't do it than you didn't either. My answer to them is, stop playing with your car cause you suck at it. People spend thousands and thousands thinking that the more money they spend the faster their car is going to be. Then they think because they spent so much money that they know everything and everyone that doesn't have as good of a setup as them is a liar. These people are vein. Dude I'm poor. I mean poverty level poor. I'm lucky I can keep a roof over my head right now. I'm always looking for ways to make my car faster without spending a bag of money. So don't be mad when I say I beat a TPI with a TBI. my buddy has a 5.0 TPI Z28 stock. I have my 5.7 TBI RS. He launched harder than me but, didn't pull away far enough or fast enough. Half way down that track I caught him. the other half I was beating him. I won by half a car. meaning his front end was at my doors.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

91rs4life,

What you say is true but you already have 52 more cubic inches of displacment on that guy. And yours runs crappy because you are on the stock tune. When you do tune it, you will see that you will have air and fuel probelms and that the stock TBI is inadequate, just like everyone else is explaning. There are guys with TBI 350's on here that run high 13's only after they have done everything, including either a 670 TBI unit or a 454. And these guys know what they are doing and not just throwing money at it. These are the same guys that write BIN files and such for all of us to tune with. Just go buy yourself the latest super chevy mag and read about the buildup they did with a Holley 4bbl TBI setup. After they did everything to it it only made 416hp. That is with 4 injectors and a subtatially larger TBI unit than the 670. Yea that is nice power but you would have to spend crap loads on that set-up to get serious power out of a TBi set up.

Beast5spdGTA

stock injectors, never checked the pressure, never added fuel in chip at WOT (actually took some out in the mid-range).

195 RWHP, 96 mph trap speeds in a 3500 lb car. A/F in the 12:1 range the whole way then climbing a little after 5000 rpm.

I assume this is impossible too? If 55 pph inj. are only good to 220hp, how did my car make 220+hp with 40 pph inj.?

Not saying I believe the guy due to his previous posts a few months ago, but I do think the whole fuel/injector/HP thing is overrated.

txhotRS

who said that I didn't know what I was doing ??? HOW DO YOU KNOW what I know... I did my thing, and it worked, thanks for telling me what I can't accomplish, when you don't know what I did...

FIRST THING... aren't the injectors from the cop car 55lb... because those are the ones that I'm running (I read that they are "improved" 350 injectors (which are 55lb)... but I heard that they are 65, but I can't prove it...so I say that they are 55 (because that's what I understood them to be)... any one know for sure ??, it might straighten some questions out)

Second... about my previous posts.... I BLEW UP THAT ENGINE... I tried to spray it... It didn't work right... I lost 2 rods, and screwed up EVERYTHING... so anything that I was talking about with my car before this month DOESN'T MATTER, but I wanted to improve my methods with a 355, but I didn't budget very well ( I bought the parts, minus the heads and engine, and cam... and didn't have enough money for the 355.., so I bought another 305(lo3) for $50, bought the SR TORQUER 305 and went to work... I had MUCH better luck this time (and my HP and all that in previous posts before... WAS with spray..before it messed up)

THIRD... did you guys EVEN read that I said 340 at the FLYWHEEL....which means that it was around 310 at the REAR... the LT1 (Z-28) has 275 at the rear with a WEAK cam, small valves, a small intake, and a stock exhaust manifold (in case you still argue numbers)

FOURTH.... I also said that I have disected several TBI's... so I know them well.... ALSO, that I carved out a decent amount of MINE ,, including the bore(after practicing on others)... so the bores AREN'T 1-11/16 INCHES... THEY ARE CLOSER TO 2 (so YES, it can "raise" 100+ cfm... WHEN THE BORES ARE BIGGER)... and before someone jumpes on me about that... I am using 454 throttle plates (which are 2 inches)... and before someone jumps on me about how I carved it out so the bores worked... I did it at a machine shop... and before you jump on me about the manifold... I bored that too

FIFTH... engines run better, and faster when they are cold... which is where my ram air comes into play... (yes.. it's possible with an open element... go to www.ramairbox.com)

Look, you don't HAVE TO believe me, or my claims... nobody would think that Honda's can run 10's or even 9's with enough mods... but it's happened...
I bought ALL my parts specifically to compliment the other parts I was using.. it worked out really well, not to mention the fact that I've spent (literally) days of my life tuning the d@mn thing...
you guys can rag on me ALL YOU WANT TO... but I'm driving my car, and you aren't, I know what I did to it and how fast it is,, AND YOU DON'T,and at the end of the day, I'm still the one with a FAST 305

Dewey316

that explains alot right there.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I think we were all under the assumption that you were using the stock TBI unit literally. Not a moddified one. Because a stock TBI unit does not take you very far. That changes everything because you do need 2" bore to support the power you claim. Well now it is more beliveable but yours is deffienatly not stock and flows consideralby more than a stock unit. I am not sure on the injector info but I really don't think you have 55lbs. I think they are bigger. Try to see if there is a ID number on them or anything. Also pull off the connectors and look at what color the top of the prongs are on it. You can tell fairly easy by that. Also did you bore the intake or just chamfer it? I didn't think you could bore the edelbrock intake at all because the water passages are so close to the bores. If you can than I am going to take mine off and do the same. Are you also retuning the car yourself. Are you burning your own chips now. I thought you had it done but you said you have tuning problems. If you do not count the nitrous than you are making about 250hp. Totaly believable. I think we though you meant 340 on all motor. The puzzle is slowly working itself together so hang in there man.

txhotRS

NO I said that my OLD engine had 340-ish HP with nos... not mine now... it's all motor... I didn't burn my own chips... that's the ONLY thing that I didn't do myself...

91rs4life

txhot

I agree with you on this whole thing. I have seen posts where guys are happy to say they ran 15's. What most people don't consider is atmospheric conditions. Up here in chicago, your f-body should run 14's - 15's stock v8. to run anything less your engine is screwed up. I have two words that mean alot in racing and they don't have anything to do with what you've done to your car. STOICHIOMETRIC PRESSURE. the SP at sea level is 15:1 The air pressure ratio up here in chi-town is 14.7:1. In other words, the higher the ratios, the more air that is avail. for compression. These guys must be living in the mountains or something. In chicago a stock thirdgen should run no less than mid 15's. I live here. I know. I also hate it when people tell me what I can and can't do with my car. Just know that you don't have to prove anything to anybody on the boards. If they want to let their jealousy talk for them instead of their brains, let'em ramble to themselves. Just like me, I'm sure you have witnesses. and those are the guys you have to see everyday. The people on this website you will probably never meet and their rantings shouldn't bother you one bit. The people you know are the only people you have to prove something too. This is supposed to be a tech site. But yet people on these boards still continue to persecute people. but think about it from their point of view too. The probably never saw a stock f-body pull 15's. So of course they're going to think it's bs. Either way, I believe you. Don't let it get to you.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

why bother? this kid has a track record of being a bull****ter, he comes in about twice a year.. just long enough to where the people that came here are gone and says some story and then there is controversy and then there is a consensus that he is full of sh it and then he is gone again... only to be back in another 6 months when most of you have sold your thirdgens and new people are here

91rs4life

really? wow... well that shut me up. I guess I should shut my pie hole considering i read the first 10 posts or so to this and then read the last 4 or 5. What's he claiming again anyway?
Nevermind I'll scroll up and look

614Streets

Ack yall totally hijacked my thread! J/K good stuff going on up there , lots of controversy. Anyhow I got the engine all built today.

91rs4life

okay I have analyzed his claim to the best of my ability... 340 horses is alot to claim from what work you stated was done. especially to a 305. tx scroll up and take a look at my crappy *** setup. the best thing about this motor that I know I have is the rods, pistons, bore and the heads. Though the heads are only 10 larger on intake, i consider that to be okay for stock heads. I am running a...well I can't say 355 because it's only 40 over but, I would say a 353. either way, It's a 5.8L engine and according to my math, if I did this right, my motor will allow about 260-270 of raw power. Even that sounds a little high. That's why I think i screwed up the formula (if anyone can help me refresh my mathematical memory that would be great.). I am using a stock tranny and a stock ltd rear end with 2:73's. I should be getting about 230 to the wheels. I did my formula assuming the cam is stock. ( I really need to get a wheel and dial and measure that fugger). If the cam is say oh... a 1/2" cam with 1/3 durations.. that may give me an extra... i don't know... 20 horses MAX. in which only about 13 would get to my wheels. 340 is alot to claim guy. List your setup. tell me everything. Cam, rod length, crank stroke, bore, valve sizes, p&p? balance?diff ratios, open? ltd slip? locked? intake, tranny, bandwidths, shift points, gear sizes, overall weight ... EVERYTHING.