violentgod1

Alright, Today i just went and changed my fuel filter on my 89 TBI (gas burns) because it was hesitating with gas and i was told it may be the filter or pump. So i get in the car let it warm up for a while (10 minutes or so) and start to take off. There was no problem as i went down the street and back giving it gas and opening it up a little bit. After about 5 minutes of driving it starts to do it again but only with a lot of gas. Then after a little bit longer it doesnt take as much gas to do it. Its like it takes a while to get worse but it will eventually get there. The RPMs bounce when the hesitation happens but so does the car. When the hesitation happens it also sounds like poppin in the exhaust. It never stalls on me but i dont ever just keep giving it the gas til it does. I also have a small leak coming from my lower coolant hose but i dont think this will have anything to do with it. I think i have covered everything. If there is anything else that would help make a diagnosis then please ask. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

flaming-ford

iTrader: (7)

yah if it's *popping from the exuast* you are misfiring or bacfiring it sounds. Could be timing is off by a good bit or it could be your not getting the correct ammount of fuel. Does the car feel shaky at all while you drive it?

violentgod1

yeah. it def shakes like its about to stall when it give if i give it more gas than i already have. I thought i saw somewhere though if your rpms are fluctuating when it happens then it could be electrical. If it was the fuel pump wouldnt it just hesitate after start up? It idles fine and sounds fine when i rev it in neutral. It takes a little time for it to get to the point where it is actually bad. It ran fine before too. Just one day when it started to get cold out i took it for a ride and there it was.

GOY

Sounds heat related. My guess would be bad/weak coil or ignition module - which I'm sure have already been replaced, but if you are looking for opinions, that's mine.

violentgod1

i havent checked that. Is there a way i can go about checking that without just replacing it. Im alright with elctronics so i should be able to understand what your saying if i can check continuity somewhere or anything like that. How much would those replacements be? I appreciate any opinions.

flaming-ford

iTrader: (7)

not sure what a stock coil costs but, a hi-po aftermarket coil only costs about 50$.

I'd check the continuity myself.

violentgod1

how would i check on that. not really sure what it looks like or if there is two spots to check for the continuity or just check from the pin to ground. I know where it is just havent checked it before. Is there suppose to be continuity or is it suppose to be open?

BMmonteSS

I have a 10$ bill that says it's the fuel pump, the pumps seem to run better when their cold, but once they get a little heat in them they start going down hill. The reason why it revs fine in idle is that it takes alot less fuel to free rev than to pull your car down the road. Get a fuel pressure guage and check your pressue, if possible check it while you drive. A trick I've used in the past is to have a buddy power brake the car to get it under a load, without spinning the tires and see if the pressure drops.

PhLaXuS

Har ya be:

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d801631af.jsp

Stock coils are only like $15. Aftermarket is around $50, as stated above. Fuel pump & filter together will run about $50. If you need to change the pump, consider going for the higher flow units if you're gonna be modding this a bit in the future.

sqzbox

I had a hesitation and misfire once. It turned out my coil wires were arcing between each other. I just happened to be moving things around trying to find something wrong and I got my finger zapped! I seperated them and made sure they weren't touching anything or each other and the problem went away. Another funny thing was happening at the same time during the hesitation. Every time it started missing and hesitating, the tach would just die! next time it messes up look at your tach and see if it's dropping to 0. That should clue you to an electrical short.
Just another thing to look for! good luck!

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I've been battling a similar hesitation problem.
Its either not getting fuel, spark or air.

I think its safe to rule air out.

If you can rule the fuel out than you are left with a spark.

If its not a spark than what????

Exhaust, check to see if you have a clogged cat. Although missfiring should say that you do have a good cat. I think.

Check your SP wires, check the wiring from the coil to distributor and pickup coil to module.

My previous distributor had the pickup coil wires stripped because of the heat and wear, and they were arcing big time. I changed the distributor and everything is clean and right. However I still have the bogging.

Unplugg you TPS and try driving like that!
See if the hesitation still happens.

How does it hesitate.
Does go but slow and than pics up, or does it bogg down than goes???

PhLaXuS

My bet is on the fuel pump. I've had similar problems where the car would bog if I gave it too much gas. It was bad plug wires. I don't think this is the case because it gets worse with heat/time. Could also be a sensor that's seriously wacked. Could be throwing the tune more and more out as it comes up to temp.

A datalog would be VERY helpful. Notebook PC, WinALDL and a $2 cable would be all you'd need.

http://winaldl.joby.se/

violentgod1

ive had the problem with a bad wire before and you are def right by saying that isnt the problem. Its not really so much a bog as it is like a stall. Its almost like the car wants to just shut off for a second and kick back. Ive been having heating issues also after the problem occured and somesaid said that could be causing the problem too. Im think im going to go over to the garage to today and try checking out the wires cap rotor and coil and see if i am getting any arc or anything odd.

sqzbox

I believe if he had a bad fuel pump, he would be having problems with starting already and he would be getting a code.
Electrical short to ground intermittently, won't throw one. Being he's having a problem in mid range to upper RPM where voltage is more critical, I would be looking for a short in the ignition.

violentgod1

Well i found a problem today. I was checking the ignition coil and the resistances and in step 2 where i was suppose to get continuity i am getting open.

violentgod1

heres a picture of what im talking about. I also have another one of the wire that has been frayed and looks burnt. I will attach one that one also. Im not sure if this is my only problem but i think its a start.

violentgod1

it even looks like they tried to fix it before. Sorry for the quality.

PhLaXuS

I had a coil die a sudden death on me once...I would sputter every now and then. The day before it died, the engine was really rough. It died coming out of a stop light. I hit the gas and got up to ~20MPH. After that, the gas pedal did nothing. I got three or four large black poofs of smoke from the tailpipe and coasted to a stop.

Unless you've modded your engine, there's little advantage to an aftermarket coil. If it's basically still stock, get the OEM-type for ~$15 or the AC Delco for ~$30.

PhLaXuS

I've got one of those right here if you want it. If so, just pop me a PM with an address and I'll get it out to ya.

violentgod1

im hoping this is my only problem. Figure out in a couple days when i get to replacing it. Ill stay posted.

sqzbox

Mine didn't look that bad and it was doing the same thing.

I think BMmonteSS owes somebody 10 bucks!

BMmonteSS

doohhh!!!!! Ah well pulling guess's out of my *** is never a replacement for actuall hands on troubleshooting.

violentgod1

well today didnt go as well as planned. I went to replace the t-stat first and right off the bat one of the bolts broke. Yeah what are odds. Second i wanted to replace the lower radiator hose because it looked to be leaking like i said but i think the actual leak is coming from the pump. I did also change the ignition coil and it sounded like it started up better. I got this weird high pitch whine though after i turned the car off just for a second though. Does anyone know the best way to get the bolt out and does anyone know what that whine could be? Now i guess i also get to replace the water pump. Is there anything i should look out for when doing that. Thanks for help.

sqzbox

The only way to get the bolt out is an easyout tool. You have to remove the thermostat housing, find out how much of the bolt is still sticking out (hopefully it is above the level of the intake surface) file it flat if you can. If its not, you can still do it but you have to be VERY careful. Go to the auto parts store and tell them you need to remove a broken 3/8" bolt and you want the correct size easyout and drill bit. First you center punch the center of the bolt that's left and drill a hole right down the middle of it being very careful to keep the bit in the center of the bolt and not go off to the side either way. If you subtract the head and threads that broke off you can get an idea how far down to drill the hole without going down into the intake. A good way to measure the depth is put a piece of masking tape around the bit at the depth you want to drill. you then insert the easyout into the hole lightly tapping it with a small hammer untill it's in there good and solid. The easyout will have a 4 sided head the you can grab with a pair of vise grips and you just turn it counter clockwise and the broken bolt should come out. If you notice, the easyout will have a reverse twisted shank like a drill bit made to drill backwards. That way when you get it in the broken bolt it will grab it so you can turn it counterclockwise and revove the bolt.
How good it works, depends on how straight you get the hole drilled in the broken bolt. It's a good idea to soak the broken bolt with PB Blaster penetrating oil after you get the hole drilled.
Good luck! It sounds like you could use a little.

PhLaXuS

Same thing happened to me when I tried replacing mine with a drilled out 180* thermostat. The friggin bolt head sheared right off the bolt! I wanted to fix it the right way, but had just enough thread sticking out of the block to replace the thermostat housing cover and place a nut on top.

It really amused me when I saw that I did all that to replace a good 180* thermostat with another good 180* thermostat.

I think it may be a good idea to place antiseize on the housing retainer bolt threads as they are exposed to coolant.

violentgod1

yeah i could use any luck. Seems like everytime i just try to do something small it turns into something big. I guess im gonna be going to the store and getting an easy out tool. It probably gonna be a little hard to get the hole straight because of the hood. Maybe ill just take the hood off and stand on the engine. Before that ill probably pray. Thanks for the help and ill let you know how it goes.

violentgod1

well the bolt def. isnt coming out so i think i am just gonna tap and die and hopefully that holds it. I dont think i should have to much of a problem with that. Another question i got now is that i gotta change the water pump. It wasnt the hose that was leaking. Its the back of the water pump. I know its only a few bolts but im not sure how to work the belt on and off and if i need any tools to do it. Id assume so. What are the symptoms of a bad water pump? Thanks for the help again.

PhLaXuS

If your LO3 is like mine, then the belt tensioner will have a 1/2" square hole in it (visible from the front of the engine). Place a ratchet in there and pull. It's spring loaded, so be careful you don't let the ratchet slip or you could break a finger. Anyway...just pull a few inches and the belt comes off. Look over the belt routing first because it's a little convoluted.

Faulty water pump? Typically drips (or pours, depending on the level of damage) from "weep holes" in the pump housing. If you're dripping from the pump, it's definitely gone out.

violentgod1

yeah its dripping and its pretty bad when it warms up. What kind of problem with the car would this cause if any at all. Just a temp problem. I dont think that this could cause problem but could something else cause this to happen or just in time bad things happen. Thanks

sqzbox

Yup, 16 yr old cars wear out parts! Don't forget to drain the radiator before you pull the pump and don't get crazy with the gasket sealer. Use just enough to do the job, you don't want any execes sealer floating through your cooling system.

violentgod1

well i got the water pump changed today and did a new hole for the t-stat housing. Just have to tie up a few odds and ends and hopefully tomorrow she will be running again. Water pump change all in all wasnt that bad but i def spent some time putting some lube on the bolts. We shall find out what happens.

kevm14

Wow, nice. I broke a bolt recently, but I failed at drilling it. So I bought a junkyard intake manifold.

violentgod1

yeah i just followed what everyone said and it seemed to work out alright. The hole might be just a slight bit smaller but i think that is better than making it bigger than it previously was. I want a new manifold at some point anyways so if this gets the job go me. Im just about to be headed there too.

violentgod1

so i took the car out for a ride today and the problem is still there. The heat works good though so with the combination of a new pump and t-stat i got that fixed. It is still bogging down though and its looking like it more of a low rpm thing. right around 1500 - 2000 rpms. Whenever i try to give it more than just a little bit of gas it bogs down like it just wants to quit on me. Ive replaced the ignition coil, water pump, t-stat. Is there anything that gives these symptoms at low rpms. It seems to accelerate better once i get into higher rpms.

PhLaXuS

Well...as so eloquently stated here again & again: you need air, fuel & spark. I highly doubt you have an air problem. As a test, simply pull the cover from the air cleaner. Could be "complications" with getting clean air into the engine such as a stuck open EGR valve -- that would cause the engine to run better at high RPMs and crappy down low.

As far as fuel, it doesn't sound like a fuel delivery issue at least up to the fuel pressure regulator because it works better at higher RPMs (when more fuel would be needed). Could be bad injectors, but I've never heard of them failing in such a way. I guess it's possible.

Spark...I can't think of any particular problem at the present in which a bad spark would be worse at lower revs UNLESS the ECM were dumping in WAY to much fuel at low RPMs...like maybe a dead spot on the TPS AND a bad spark. I had a bad TPS once, but it caused my engine to surge randomly. With the heat making the problem worse, it sounds like a detonation issue, but if the ECM retarded spark timing, it wouldn't make the engine bog down in such a way which would make you think it's gonna die -- it would just lack power. I guess checking the ICM is a good idea as well...

I don't know if low compression (bad rings, valves) could cause this, but I think not. If somehow the cam timing were off, it may run better at high revs, but this is an issue which would've pretty much always been there. It wouldn't just show up out of nowhere, I believe. Do you know if anyone ever tweaked with the ECM because they may have burned a bad ROM or popped one in from a different engine with different fuel maps?...

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Hey, I have a similar problem and I really can't pin point what the deal is.
I replaced everything from TPS to ECM to Fuel pump.

It still bogs down at about 20mph and its killing me.

When i play with the TPS the fuel will squirt more for a sec and than it wouldn't squirt any more than it was in the beggining.

I am trying to figure out why the car idles higher than calms down??

Its either TPS or IAC, if you ask me.

I think they could be out of whac causing you problems.

read how to adjust them and do it.
Although our TPS are really not adjustable, so replace it.

Good luck and let me know what you find out!??

PhLaXuS

I was re-reading this thread and have a quick test: Put the transmission in 2nd and take it around the block. Does it feel any different?

And xlwhellraiser, the ECM was probably automatically readjusting the fuel trim using feedback from the O2 sensor. That could explain the short burst of fuel you were seeing before it seemed to correct itself.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I Thought that would be the case.

My car will shift in gear, but if I did not bump the idle screw up pretty far, it would die.

If I turn the screw where it used to be the car would shift to gear, jerk violently and die!
So jacking up the idle screw keeps it running decently.

Sometimes if I floor it the car would bogg pretty good than go Just like the original poster's problem.

What would make a bogg like that??

Maybe that would be one way to find out.

What would cause such symptoms.

sqzbox

When I bought my car, it ran crappy some of the time and half azz the rest of the time. After putting up with it for a couple of weeks and only getting 150 mi out of a tank of gas I checked the timing.
Some idiot had set the timing without disconnecting the EST (electronic spark timing) connector, and had it at 4* adv. initialy.
That means, He had to retard the timing 25+ * to get it at 4*.
So, I was running around with only 7* of advance capability.
Not much huh? SHORE ran better with the correct setting, and I got 300 mi. from the first tank of gas afterwards!

BMmonteSS

Datalogging would take a whole lot of guess work out of diagnosing this.

violentgod1

i got a little more that might help put a diagnosis on this problem. I went out and took the air cleaner lid off just to see if that would make any sort of difference and i thought it did until my car warmed up. It seems that when the car heats up the idle drops down a lot. It idles a little bit under 750 rpms. When it gets that low the oil pressure goes down a lot too right above the 1/4 mark. When i start my car it starts at about 1500 rpms and gradually makes its way down as the car heats up to about that. Could there be something wrong or is this a normal configuration?

violentgod1

it did seem like it would run a little better in second gear. It still did it in any gear though. Its a standard and if i dont get it just right it gives me problems.

sqzbox

It should run a little better that you removed the restriction of the air filter. Your warm up operation sounds normal. The comp. is slowly idleing down your engine after cold start and the IAC valve is slowly closing unless you start driving before it's warmed up. At that point it will reopen and cause the idle to go up again. Normal idle speed is only supposed to be 450RPM but most idle about 600.
As far as oil pressure goes, 5.0 and 5.7's only call for 18 lbs at 2000 rpm. At a low idle speed (like under 1000 rpm) even 10 to 15 is acceptable as long as oil pressure increases as soon as rpm goes up. A good rule of thumb is 10lbs of oil pressure for every 1000 rpm.

violentgod1

when it gets that low though it begins to feel just a little shaky and it jumps a little bit. The rpms and oil pressure will vary even though not a lot really at all but you can feel it. Almost like if it was to drop a little more rpms it could stall. It doesnt get to that but it almost feels like it wants to. It doesnt really ever stay steady when it idles.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Yup man, my car does that too.

I went ahead and put in a HI-6s ignition and it looked to have just amplified the problem!

Now the tach would jump around when cold, and it would work fine once I get the car going.

There's gotta be a short somewhere in the system.

Maybe there is a bad place on LO3's where wires get messed up!

I am really getting more and more pissed off at this car!

I threw all the money I had in it and changed everything, and its still acting up stupid.


What you want to do to get her to idle right and drive is mess with the idle screw, and get it up to where the car responds decent.
That is a bandaid fix, but it works.

violentgod1

i think im just going to take it to a shop and let them figure it out because i dont want to run up a bill with every new external engine component. I would just like to get it fixed. Sounds like we got the same problem though. Have you checked vacuum leaks because that commonly pops everywhere i look.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

The sad part was I took it to a shop cuz I got fed up.

They checked the vacum and it was 17hg at idle. They thought I had a clogged converter.
So I gutted it and no change.

I guess I will be taking it again, but I am dead broke right now!
Let me know if you find out whats happening!

kevm14

Maybe check compression, leak down and timing chain.

violentgod1

i just checked the injectors to just to see how they sounded and they are both sounding good. Just another thing ruled out of possibilities.

violentgod1

Is this a hose for a vacuum and if not what does it do? I was playing around just to see if anything popped out at me and was wiggling wires just to see and that hose when it connects to the manifold was really loose. I tried to pull it off and it came off really easy and the underside of it was ripped and not really closed at all. Just wondering if this could of caused my problem or what kind of problem this would cause if any at all.