DrummerDad

I want to ask those of you who have spent alot on your L03s, if its worth it? I am wanting to run 11s with my car, a 91 firebird. Most people tell me to go with an aftermarket engine, or a swap. Thats all good, but Im sick and tired of getting slammed, and getting no respect because I have an L03. Its sickening when people give the imports more respect than an american made economy engine. I know its no LS1, or 600 hp monster, but I only want 11s. I am open to any mod that will get me there. And I would love to shut the naysayers up. But, is it worth it, or should I ditch the engine too?

DrummerDad

Okay, before I get flamed, I did a few more searches, and came up with a close answer. It is usually recommended to get a 350, and lie, haha. So, I guess Ill have to do alot of research on TBI, in general. 305, and 350. Then just keep the displacement a secret.

r0nin89

From what I've seen your good with an LO3 till about 300 horse then the rest is up to power adders. Basically IMO LO3 is for someone who wants a street car with the ballz to kick some ***** ***. Its nothing majorly fast but remember that a low 12 car isnt very common on the street. Everything I've seen / raced in the past I would guess at high 13's and up.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

If you get your LO3 into the 11's, you need to go work for NASA and help settle Mars. After that you can then go solve cancer. . . maybe work out that pesky Israeli/Arab thing and then go settle down on your own tropical island somewhere.

In all honesty, I don't recall anyone getting in the 11's with any TBI motor of any displacement.

DrummerDad

A 350 TBI would do it, of course. I guess it depends on your interpretation of TBI. I would really like a stock looking engine, but you cant have your cake, and eat it too, so I guess Ill just have to do some homework, and figure it out. thanks guys.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Have you seen my "dyno thread" yet? My engine is very stock looking. The only thing crying out is the chrome air cleaner lid and maybe the aluminum Edelbrock TBI intake. You can't really see the Aluminum heads under the stock valve covers and the serpentine setup. I even got the emissions legal headers coated in ceramic black. It's sleeperesque. . .

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

i thnk you would need to invest as much money in drivetrain ! sticky tires. KABOOM.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

*Tony Montana*

You talkin' to me?

*/Tony Montana*

brodyscamaro

You wasting your time with TBI injection system and with the displacement of 305 ci...

DM91RS

Not necessarily so about a 305.......check out Tim Burgess Z28...

1992 Z28, 305 TPI 6 speed, 11.69 sec @ 117.52 mph

11's with 125 hp nitrous - it runs high 12's on the motor alone.


A TBI with nitrous ???

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

who he?

leeperryracing

theres nothing wrong with aiming high but at the same time, be realistic.

DrummerDad

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the honesty. I like the idea of running fast with an unappreciated engine, but it might not be worth it. And I also know, as soon as I could go 11s, I would want 10s. I guess Ill keep an open mind. I will be staying with a TBI though. It just looks slow. And thats what I want.

FreeLoader

that, is, just...a bad statement.

11's are pretty damn hard to get with any car made, on raw motor alone.

the 305's max headroom is ~425 without power adders, but it's no easy task making that, and though you can stay tbi, at that point you'll be wanting the 4-barrel tbi's.

if you're looking for all the motor you can get, while still looking harmless, get a 383 or a 400, it's still the same block, just more cubes.

but while you're deciding on what engine you want to use, I'd suggest building the hell out of your drivetrain, suspension, and exhaust(assuming you're sticking with a gen 1 motor), as well as more simple things like a better radiator/dual fans/better coil/tune up in general...you can make get some serious speed out of these cars without massive cubes or hp numbers.

the first thing you're gonna wanna do though, pretty much no matter what engine you choose(as long as you're not going carb), is upgrade your fuel pump. the stock tbi fuel pump is somewhere between 8-12, and unless you're strictly building the 305, you're gonna run out of fuel by the 275 or so mark.

the next thing you're gonna want to get into is tuning, as that will be absolutely nessessary, no matter what you do(unless you go carb).

both of those of course would be after setting up a better intake for your car if you haven't already, be it oe/cai/rai, or some variation of all 3.

anyway, since everything I just mentioned is going to be neccesary pretty much no matter what route you go, I'd suggest working on most, if not all of that, before working on replacing that engine.

this may all sound moot to you, but there have been people on here in the past that have gotten into the 14's without changing anything on the motor but the intake setup and the intake manifold, and while you "only want 11's", any 14 second car, especially a 20 year old car that was built at the height of the low power era, is respectable.

FreeLoader

oh ya, and if you wanna go that fast, you might want to look into upgrading those brakes, as they don't make the best stopping power for a 170 hp motor.

some say brakes are overrated...some say brakes add too much weight...

those people are dead though, albeit with a smile on their face.

Cadillac

I gotta say I agree. If you have a 200 HP car, make sure you have at least 250 HP brakes. What does that mean? To me it means that you can stop easier than you can take off.

Yeah... that's important.

Oh, and 11's and then 10's are his goal. I had to chuckle a little.

DrummerDad

I was just saying, its never enough. The car may never run 11s, much less 10s. That doesnt mean it has to stay a 17 second slug.

I have already started upgrading, to an extent. Exhaust, and a homebuilt upgraded aircleaner. Next year, I want to beef up the 10 bolt. I wont spend a fortune, and eventually will have to go with a 12 bolt. Tranny work is in the future too. I will try to get a custom chip this year, and a fule pump, just in case. I would really like 15s this year, but my best was a 16.80 last year. So its a bit far fetched. And I dont think I said I wanted 11s, on motor. But thats cool. I think I know what I need to do.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

15's are easy man. Exhaust, gears and posi, open element air cleaner and a chip tune and you'll be doing that all day.

FreeLoader

you want your car to feel, look, and sound ***** fast(as in light'n them tires up at will, for as long as you want), work on the tranny and rearend first.

and for christ sake man, if you're gonna do that work, throw on the ls1 driveshaft, there's a lot of debate as to how useful it really is, but the truth is they ARE damn good driveshafts, and you're gonna wanna get rid of all those weak links in the chain beforehand so's everything else you do is that much more worth it.

tranny work is expensive, and although many people on here say it's rather easy to upgrade/rebuild a tranny, the truth is that most people are more afraid of that part of the car then any other part, including even fuel injecton and tuning. that being said, having replaced my own transmisson for a better one, I cannot tell you the unbelievable difference it made, while many people on here think they need more horsepower to make their camaro into a real car, all they really need is a more effective way to get what they have to the ground.

sink some money into your tranny, do it right, and it's a one time buy that'll be one of the biggest difference making investments you could do to that car. gears and more importantly posi are your next worthwhile investements, but DO not settle for less than a posi, regardless of the gearing.

fix your drivetrain, you'll be embarassed no more. in fact there's a fair chance you'll be laughing at all some of the guys on the road that will most certainly have more power under the hood then you, as you leave them in the dust.

DrummerDad

I have plans to upgrade the rear end next year. Im thinking of 28 spline axles, a powertrax no slip diff. and 3:73s. Im gonna skip ( maybe) the c-clip eliminators( I know, I know) because Im saving for a 12 bolt in the future, and weld up the axle tubes. Ill also get a cover, with the bearing supports( I think thats what they are called). And I know the 3:73s are too steep for the L03, but either I wont keep the L03, or itll be getting built to better suit them. If its overkill, Ill step it down with the 12 bolt, to the 3:42s. Some lift bars, and LCAs, and maybe a custom torque arm and tranny crossmember, and Ill be good. Im not set on the tranny yet. I like the overdrive, but everyone I talk to says I need the 350, or 400 tranny. So I havent figured out which one to get, or if I should stay with the 700r.

FreeLoader

3.73's aren't too steep for the l03, as long as you've got the overdrive.

if I remember correctly, didn't the 400's have a 4th gear that's overdrive?

if i were you i'd run to the local junkyard and look for a 9-bolt, just make sure it has a 3.27 or a 3.45 and you're set, it's already got most of the upgrades you mention, and you could switch over to rear disc at the same time, which would get those brakes out of the way.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

No need to go to a bullet proof rear end. I'm putting 365 RWTQ and I have yet to have problems with my rear. I just did a complete rebuild with quality parts, threw in a SLP Torsen posi and 3.27 gears. I didn't even drop for the reinforced girdle.

However, the tranny is a different story. I fragged a couple of those until I found somebody with more experience with higher HP applications. The 700R4 is a good tranny (remember that the 4L60E in the 4th gens are the same thing), it just needs to be built right in order to take the power. Pro Built is a favorite on this forum. His trannies seem pretty bullet proof from what I've read. No need to go to a TH-whatever.

r0nin89

DrummerDad

I dont think 11s are that lofty a goal. I had a friend in the Army(in 93), that ran 11.20s all day. It was a mustang, but, it was a DD too, with a stock lower end. An 11.99 is good for me, and Ill spray it, or boost it either one. Im not picky, just an 11, in a daily driver.

FreeLoader

a DD?

DrummerDad

Daily Driver. Sorry.