89_RS

*UPDATE*

Since I've now got the ability to edit my posts throughout the thread, I've cleaned up my posts and am making my OP the file update spot.

I seem to have come full circle. 305 with some mods, 700R4 setup for AX/RR, AX/RR suspension/brakes/wheels/tires, and some weight savings.

I've attached my Parts List Excel file (just remove the .txt extension) and update it as I learn more and/or change my mind.
Thanks for any input and advice you have

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

$22,504.21

86z/92rs

Wow, that's alot of money to restore your Camaro. You could probably buy a 1989 RS Camaro mint condition (all OEM no afterm marlet parts) for that price. Youy may want to look at ebay, craiglist, or even post/look for parts on this board. What's the time frame to get the car completed by? Good luck on your restoration.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Ton of money for not a lot of performance.

89_RS

Time frame for restore is about 5 years, but I won't be able to start working on it till after I graduate college in about 3 years, so it'll be awhile before I do anything to it. Yes I know that my money could be better spent (such as converting to a TREMEC and LSx), but I wanted to retain a certain amount of stock feel to the car. Thats why I kept the LO3 and 700R4 and just went to work on upgrading it from there. You're correct in that I could find an all OEM mint 89 RS for about the same price, but it just wouldn't be the same to me.

Oh, I'll be getting a much better performing car anyway for my DD, a 5th gen Camaro SS. My 89 RS will pretty much get garaged after this, but I'll take it out and use it for road rallies like the Silver State Challenge and such.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

If you want stock feel, why not get a L98 350tpi engine instead of the 305TBI?

Or maybe a L05 350TBI motor at least.

89_RS

I threw those ideas around, but it just wouldn't be the same to me. I want to keep the same engine and transmission the car came with, but update them to have more modern performance. Plus, I like having a setup that is all my own, not some copy of someone else's idea. Seems like everyone and their brother builds up 350's, but no one touches a 305. Sure it may cost more to work on a 305, but I'd be happier with a 305 than a 350. Yes I do realize that it won't be the best performing car, but I'm not out to build an all out road car. I want a decent car that is something I built, not a copy of nearly everything else out there.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Well if you want something different just check out my S/C 305 buildup thread, lol.

But a lot of people have the 305TBI and do cam, heads etc etc. So its not that unique either.

89_RS

I think I've thumbed through that thread a couple times And yes, I know a 305 TBI build up ain't all that uncommon, but the way people talk on here, you'd think the 305 was a demon child from hell engine to work with. I may also be changing a few parts on that list. Went to Lunati today and found forged pistons that have an 8.8:1 CR with 67cc heads. So I might be getting different pistons and Vortec heads. Hopefully with 64cc heads I'll get a 8.9:1 or 9:1 CR with those Lunati pistons. Also, by getting Vortec heads, that definitely allows for the future possibility of FI.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Yeh, its not that the 305 sucks, its just that whatever you do to a 305.... would give you better results on a 350.

I personally will never spend money on any of the internals of my 305 [pistons, crank etc]

89_RS

Yep, the 305 doesn't have the same return on the investment. And I can understand why you wouldn't want new internals for two reasons: A) if it ain't broke, don't fix it and B) cost. But I'm a glutton for forged metal and having all forged internals would be really awesome to me. Plus it makes for a bulletproof FI setup (almost).

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I just wouldent do it because I could just get a 350 for probably less money then getting all the internals.

If you really want to make the 305 fast, maybe get the stroker kit they sell? Makes it 335cu in.

Icarus 402001

"(please no "get a 350" feedback I'm deadset on my LO3)".
He said he doesn't want a 350. Why does everyone have to argue with this statement? He obviously understands the differences.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

No one was arguing with him. They are just points that have to be brought up. If you looked at his price list he plans on spending a lot of money on the L03 that would make maybe 300whp. He also said he wanted a stock feel, so thats why I brought up the L98 and the L05 is basically just a 350 L03.

No arguing at all.

89_RS

I found that kit awhile back and looked into it. Apparently, according to the guys on this forum, that kit makes it too easy to throw a rod through the block and with the amount of money I'm going to spend, that really doesn't seem like such a good thing.

89_RS

I've updated the parts list. Made a few changes as I learned new things about the car. Could I ask for some help with checking on part compatibility?

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

If you want to keep it stock looking, why on earth would you get a ram air hood? Especially on a Camaro, I dont like that look at all.

And also I wouldn't waste 400$ on the holley throttle body when you can get an ebay or junkyard 454TB for under 100$.

89_RS

I too am questioning, have questioned, and will continue to question the Ram Air hood. IMO it looks ok, and it'll help out the open air element (and to a lesser extent cooling the engine), but you are correct, that would be a dead give away that the car has had some work done under the hood.

And I do understand that $400 for a Holley TBI is bad considering that I can find 454TBIs really cheap. But I'd rather have a brand new all parts supplied TBI vs. a used 454TBI that I may or may not have to replace parts on, so in that aspect $400 is worth it to me.

Timothayyy

iTrader: (2)

Oh yeh and I forgot to mention you wont even need the holley or the 454TB.
Just get an adjustable pressure regulator.

Unless youre going for 300+ whp you dont need the holley or the 454, and ive heard its very hard to tune with it.

And as for the hood, maybe look at the Cowl hoods, I got one. And I think they look a lot better then the ram air for our 3rd gens. Now on a 4th gen, I like the ram air, just not a fan of it on our cars.

And for your valve train, just look at the camshaft you want to get and it should have a data sheet on comps web site, I used that and emailed comp to figure out what stuff I needed.
http://www.compperformancegroupstore...Category_Code=

Thats the cam you selected. Im not an expert on cams, but that one doesent look like a good choice to me. Says its for heavy towing.

89_RS

I checked the cam kit on COMP Cams site and they say its for the 305-350 engines. I found that kit in the Summit catalog and checked it out online. According to what I've seen on this site, thats a mild cam for the LO3, but I'm still learning.

Edit: The cam that comes in that kit is the 12-262-4 cam (http://www.compperformancegroupstore...Category_Code=)

89_RS

Any feedback, especially concerning part compatibility would be greatly appreciated.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Do you realize you have both coil overs and a prokit on the list?????? You can't have both on your car at the same time. I think you have much more to learn before you think your list is "done". You'll change it many times before your car is really done.

I think this should be labeled a "Wish" list

89_RS

Yes, I did realize that I had both coil-overs and a prokit on the list. I thought that it was somewhat odd myself, however at the time I'd found no information that said you could or couldn't have a prokit on coil overs. Thanks for the info and I'm very sure that I'll tweak it several more times before I finally label the list as truly done. I'm fairly certain that there is more I need to learn as well, yet you could have said the same thing with less attitude.

89_RS

Update:

Made some good progress on the list. Finally managed to trim some of it down. Now, I'm in need of some really good advice.

I was told that going to an aftermarket K-member & A-Arms wasn't a good idea, reason being that its not that good for DD'ing. I dropped the 4130N chrome moly, but since its about $700 more all told for the parts to be in 4130N chrome moly I might still go for it. I'm staying with a stock style suspension. I'm also thinking about blending the MOOG and PST front end kits. The MOOG kit has all the links and bars and the PST kit has all the bushings. I'm thinking about doing 3" true duals with 1.75" headers.

Some suggestions for parts for the entire brake system, advice on the exhaust, and help with determining parts compatibility would be greatly appreciated.

Travis odell

I like the idea of keeping a stockish feel to the overall car however, with your budget you could find yourself a true classic Muscle car to fix up. Im starting to think it will be a ways off our third gens will be worth anything, and all the ragged out white trash third gens i see on a daily basis seems to be increasing, it could take a life time for theese cars to finally die off and have just half the value of a 67-69 Camaro Rs/z28 or a chevelle IMO. Now im not bashing the Fbody Camaro or Birds, thats just how i feel. Good luck.

Dewey316

I'm sorry to put this so bluntly, but you have got to be kidding me. I think you first off, need to sit down, plan a power/speed goal, then figure out how to get there.

You list also doesn't make a ton of sense, based on what you seem to be wanting to do. You also have a mismatch of stuff that you don't need, if you are running something else. Example: Solid motor mounts, and engine plate. You also are NOT going to want an engine plate, or solid mounts if you are going to be running this as a DD.

Some of the other stuff is a little over the top, not needed. For the power level the rest of the parts are going to be making, why in the world would you need wiesco forged pistons, crank, rods, etc. The motor really, probably won't make much more than 275hp, why would you even consider spending the money for H-beams, and an aftermarket crank. Also, why would you get a GMPP balancer, spend less money, and get one that is actualy SFI approved.

There are lots of other examples, like the Baer brake kits, no need for a rear kit at all, (or the 12-bolt for that matter, but I won't knock that, if you can afford that, all the power to you), you can buy more brake performance for much less than the Baer stuff.

Same with all the CM suspension stuff, for a DD, mild steel is a better choice, as it isn't as brittle. If this is a race car, that you inspect constantly between/before races, then CM is fine, but for a DD, get the mild steel.

Then, based on your original post, of wanting to run silver state, you are in a whole different league. YOu have ZERO safety equipment listed for anything like that. I would also spend the $1700 you plan to spend on a rebuilt 700r4, and buy a t56, scattershield, sfi flywheel, etc. If you are planning on this route, I would ditch the spohn coil-over kit, bilsteins, and eibach kit. Get GOOD parts, get a G-C weight jack system, with ERS springs, and a set of Koni's.

I don't mean to knock on your attempt to plan everything out, its a good idea to formulate a good plan. When I help people plan out their stuff, I start by sitting down, and getting 2 key things. 1) A realistic goal for the car. 2) A realistic budget, that they WILL spend. From there, you can figure out the best, most econimical way to reach the goal. If your goal, is a cool, 300hp car, that you can take to the track here an there. You can get there for MUCH cheaper than you are planning. If your goal is a 600hp, street car, you need to look at the plan again. If your goal, is a honest 200mph silverstate car, your plan is way off base.

I will also add, your list is missing a TON of stuff required for doing what you are planning. Such as, machine work, balancing, bearings, gaskets, etc for the engine. Welding, etc for parts and fabrication (unless you can do it all yourself). And all the little stuff that adds up really fast, such as plumbing materials. When you do stuff like this, you find out real fast that you spend a small fortune in AN fittings, and AN lines and adaptors. Then all the maiintance stuff you end up doing, such as, water-pumps, steering boxes, bearings, seals, etc. I know all that stuff seems like "little" stuff that you dont' need to budget, but it would be VERY easy to tac on at least an extra 2k to that list, in just the stuff you didn't think about adding, and all the small stuff. To get the engine built alone, you probably have about $800 in machine work needed.

Just trying to be honest with you, and give you some stuff to think about.

89_RS

I agree with you, my first list ain't put together so well. However, if you check my latest parts list (I'll add it to this post), I've made quite a bit of progress in narrowing the list and actually making a flowing list of parts that works quite well. I'm keeping the same LO3 engine and upgrading it, replacing the 700R4 transmission with the new one, and I'm upgrading the rear end & suspension to semi-future proof the car.

And just so you know, I'm well aware of the other little things that I need to budget for. All told, I'm expecting to spend about $40k-$50k by the time I'm done with the car. About half that is going toward modding the car, the rest will go towards body work and restoration work. Also, I know this isn't going to be done in a year, so I'm figuring on a 5-10 year time frame for the length of time it takes for me to finish my project. So saying that I've got no clue is a little too much.

When I get done with this car, I'd like to have an engine thats around 300hp and 300ft/lbs, the car look as completely stock as possible, have plenty of room for future upgrades, and the car to be completely DDable. And I'm very well aware of what the SSCC requires of a car. I'm not building it to compete in the Unlimited class, rather this car's priorities will be stock look & feel and DD abilities. The only way I can compete in the SSCC is if I enter the car in the Touring Class (95-110mph). The only safety equipment required for that class is a 2.5lbs BC fire extinguisher on a quick release that is easily driver accessible.

Thanks for confirming what others have told me about the Chrome Moly components, that right there shaved $700 off the bill. Also, feel free to show me parts that I'm not quite right on and where to find them and I'll be very grateful. If you want to, you can modify the parts list and repost it and I'll gladly take your advice and apply it to my project.

89_RS

Yep, thats what I'm going for. And while its true that I could by a Classic muscle fixer uper, it just wouldn't be the same. Hopefully in about 30 years time the 3rd gens will be worth something.

Dewey316

I think you are missing my point. If your goal is a 300hp daily driver, that is clean and looks stock. You don't need a $850 crankshaft, nor the machine work involved. A freshed up stock bottome end, with ARP hardware, would be ample for that power level. There is nothing wrong with building a strong foundation, but why spend the money on stuff that is WAY over the top. If you were building a 700hp, forced induction engine, then those parts might would be in order. But a 300hp NA motor, not needed at all.

Shoot its your money, I am just trying to offer up advice, that there is a crap load of parts in your list, that are by no means needed for the levels you seem to be shooting for. That is all I am saying, build what you want, but if you want to reach your goal in the most economical way, with the least hassle, you seem to be overdoing that. If you really want to spend $40k, on a 89 RS, more power to you, its your hard earned money.

89_RS

Actually I do understand what you're saying, and yes I do agree that several things on that list are overdone and I'm very sure I'm way overestimating my budget. Yet the reason that list is overdone is because this is a car that I intend to hand down to my kids (if I have any) at some point in my life. So while I'm happy with a 300hp NA motor now, in the future I might want to goto a FI setup that has a SC or TT. I'm using the logic of: if its torn down now, why not do it? Sure cost is a factor, but it'll take time to save the money and I'll try to do the restore and first 2 sections of my list and the new axle when I have the car completely torn down and rebuilt. That way I can take my time with the rest of the mod.

I hope that I don't end up spending $40k on an 89 RS, but if thats what it takes to do a full restore and mod the right way the first time, then so be it.

rough

Pretty impressive list, hopefully when its done i could check it out sometime, im not to far from lafayette when im at my parents.


Good on ya for sticking with the 305, just imagine the face of the guy in his 350 that just got whuped by a RS Plus u can get more races if your into that, most ppl dont wana play with 350's but they know 305's reputation, so they will roll on that.

89_RS

Well, if I'm still here and have the passion and desire to do/finish this project in about 10 years time (in college for the next 3-4 years) you're more than welcome to come by and check it out. Thanks for the complement about staying with the LO3, its got the potential to be a really great sleeper and road course motor.

I've got body work out the wazoo to get done to it (band-aiding it for now), a transmission replacement coming somewhere in the next 18k-118k miles (its already got 182k on it) depending on who you ask, and probably several other gremlins that come with a car its age, but I really can't justify $17k for a new economy car thats only 2-3 years old, so I'm limping along on it for now because its my DD. But where I live I don't get the "OMFG, you drive a Mustang!!!" comments (everyone heres got one)

rough

Same id rather stay with my 2,000$ car and dump the money into it. Plus if it breaks then its my fault and ill fix it.

New cars are a rip off, when you like to get your hands dirty.

89_RS

Yep, thats where I'm at, staying with the old $800 car thats pretty much a money pit.

3 months ago though, I'd never have thought of a project like this. But 2 guys I worked with this summer restored Corvettes and modded Mustangs and they taught me alot about the general stuff about cars. I've since made great head way into figuring out what I want to do.

And not all new cars are a rip off. I wouldn't mind buying a new 5th gen, a ZR1 Corvette from Ligenfelter, or an Aston Martin DB9.

rough

If i could get something like a 5th gen and not cost a fortune i would, but unfortuantly i like my toys so saving money is the hard part . I just look at it this way. 1000$ for the car. something breaks or you want to upgrade, just do it right and get performance parts, eventually your car will be pretty much decked by the time you would pay half that car off.

Broken parts are a blessing when your married. gives you a reason to buy something sweet and upgraded for the ride

89_RS

The plan is to get an economy car when I graduate and work on the Camaro. Thats sound advice about the broken parts.

rough

Id get a economy car, but since the camaro is my DD, it forces me to finish the task at hand quickly instead of sitting on it

Besides those punks at the light always eat you up in the grocery getter, but they never wana play when your in the camaro : / wtf

89_RS

Yeah, but I want to get my project done right the first time and I know that alot of things I'm going to do will take alot of time. Primarily the car will be torn down for about a year before I start to put it back together. First thing I'm going to do is tear it down to the "frame", strip all the paint off, fix all the rust, weld on the SFC then have it all powdercoated (I know that will cost a ton). That will be my starting point. From there I'll work on the chassis, suspension, interior, body, drivetrain, brakes, then finally the engine. That way I'm not constantly redoing something, like my football coach said: "Do it right, do it light. Do it wrong, do it long."

As for them eating me with my grocery getter, all the more reason to stay with LO3. Tease someone into racing with the line "Its only an LO3"

89_RS

I need some help choosing a manifold. I originally wanted the Edlebrock Performer Air Gap for my TBI. But after some research, it sounds like that would be a bad choice.

Heres what I've found so far:

Edelbrock Performer TBI and bore it out to 2" for the Holley TBI

or

Holley Pro-Jection TBI manifold

Both manifolds appear to be able to work with the cylinder heads I'm looking at. Which one do you guys think is the better choice of manifold?

rough

anything is better then the stock junk we got now Id go with the Holley because you wouldn't have to bore it, which will cost you some $$ at any machine shop.


Either way, both are gonna add some fun

89_RS

Hey guys, I got a question.

What all is needed to tune the stock PCM? I have WinALDL, know where to get the cable, and a laptop. Also, does the USB version of the ALDL cable work with WinALDL? Heres the link for the cable:

http://www.aldlcable.com/

I'm to the point of starting to try and tune the stock PCM. From what I've read and seen, its a fairly easy process, but can be a pain in the *** when done wrong. Only thing I'm lost on, is the stock PCM reprogrammable or do I have to get the EBL (nothing against the EBL, just don't have the money for it right now)?

Let me know if I missed anything.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

There is a whole section about it.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-ecm/

Here is a good thread to read to get you started

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...free-tune.html



Search, read, search, read.

89_RS

Yes, I've read those threads before and found a whole lot of info, but I'm asking for specific things that I have not found on this forum and I want to know what other people have done. Tuning a file is the easier part to find info on and figure out, finding out what you need to do it is a bit harder.

1.) Will the USB version of the ALDL cable work with WinALDL? Reason I ask is that all material on cables is related to the serial version of the cable.

2.) Is the stock chip reprogrammable or is it an as is item? Reason for this is I would rather get an EBL than buy more chips that could possibly equal an EBL in cost.

3.) What else is requiered to mod the stock PCM, and if so how much will these items cost? Reason, I don't want to have invested the money into buying all sorts of equipment that could have gone into a EBL.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

If "future proofing" the car is such a big freaking deal, why do you insist on a 300hp 305 with all forged internals? Why? "Because this $800 car I bought with the money from my high school savings account came with it." Is that REALLY your answer?

Do something different. Twin-turbo 572 BBC. Daily driven. Granted, you'll have manual brakes, a cage, manual steering, no A/C or heat.... But it'll be different.

Or do a TT383. You can get the headers from BBS Designs, and a 350 from any junkyard. Rebuild it, bore it, stroke it, turbo it!

Or drop in a 3.8L GN engine, and turbo the crap out of it! Any car that didn't come with a turbo 3800 from the factory is unique. There's even one dude with a 70 Stingray Vette with a 3800 in it.

Or put the money into building up a World Products Warhawk block, and have an all aftermarket fully forged LS7, that could be running some kind of forced induction. Supercharger sounds good here. A nice manual tranny.... Mmm.

Or you could spend $50k and have a factory stock 1989 Camaro. Mmmm. 305. These cars will never be like the first gens. Never. I will never be able to put a sign on a 87 Camaro that has no wheels, no engine, no tranny, no glass, no doors, no rear end, and absolutely no interior that says $10k FIRM. And mean it.

Get realistic. If you want to proof this car against future mods, then go big, or go home.

Rear Suspension: The new watts link setup looks pretty sweet, other than that, go with full adjustable/rod ended pieces, and avoid Chrome Moly unless you're 110% sure it's been heat treated AFTER welding. If not, it makes the welds MORE brittle than they would be any way, and you're better off getting mild steel. Do not get a coil over. Unless you want to do a lot of complicated body work after the sheet metal tears open from the weight of the car on the shock, then just get some lowering springs back there, and a set of Koni shocks. Or for top dollar, get a set of double 12-way adjustables from Varishock. Replace EVERY bushing with Poly.

Rear drivetrain: S60 from Strange Engineering. Biggest baddest rear for 82-02 Camaros. Enough said. Pimp it out when you order it. Truetrac posi, girdle cover, 3.73 gears, have it set for 93-97 rear discs (Wilwood makes a 12" rear disc with parking kit for 93-97 F-Bodies, and it's only like, $600. Big bang for little buck.), get the 1/2" studs which will still fit in factory wheels, and definitely get the 1350 chrome moly pinion yoke. Also, you'll need a custom driveshaft for the S60. Get one in your preferred flavor of Carbon Fiber, Steel, or Aluminum. Bam. Done. Oh, as an aside, get Earl's SS braided brake lines for the whole car.

Exhaust: Partially engine dependent. If you run the 305, might as well stick with stock. Dual 3" tubes will only kill what little power that engine makes. I think my factory 350 has a single 3". And that's if you CAN run dual 3". Most people run dual 2.5" tubes, and it's a big enough pain in the ***. You could go up to a single 4" and split off into a fake dual exhaust. Looks good, works good, sounds okay. Basically, bigger engine == bigger exhaust.

Fuel: Also dependent on engine, but basically stay with FI. If you boost you need it, if you don't, it enhances driving. Swap in a 4th gen tank that's plastic. Delete the redundant old technology under the hood. The 4th gen tank is bigger, and has the charcoal canister built in. Put in a Walbro fuel pump kit from Racetronix. Then you'll probably never have to see the tank again. Ever. Or you could swap to the 25 gallon fuel cell from Fuel Safe. $2300, but if you run a BBC, that's not having to stop for gas on a car cruise.

Middle Under-car: Basically, what goes here is your tranny and torque arm. First off, ditch the tranny-mounted torque arm. Get a Spohn adjustable rod-end torque arm that mounts to a crossmember, and get whichever crossmember you want for whichever transmission you plan on running. Bam!

Whole Car: Sub. Frame. Connectors. NEED THEM. Put them in before anything.

Front suspension: If you want to go all out, get a tubular K-member, A-Arms, whatever you want. Just do your research. Poly everything up here too, just like in the back. As for steering components, buy new Moog, and in 50k miles, swap out the bushings for poly instead of rubber. Do not get a coil over. Same problem here as in the back, GM attached the struts to sheet metal, and the springs to your K member. You'll send a strut through the hood with coil overs. Also, get some drop spindles from Racecraft, because they're the best (and should be the only way) to lower your car. Refresh your springs with new springs that have a rate you feel good. I'd use stock IROC springs. ebmiller88 on here has a LOT of front brake kits that would take you a long way, and he includes every nut and bolt you need to make the install.

This probably got less and less detailed along the way, beause I'm really tired, but you should definitely reconsider doing a completely stripped resto with a powdercoated base (like project F-Bomb from Camaro performers, right?) with a 305 to doing something else. There was even a dude who installed a 4-cylinder 70's diesel in his Camaro. Ran rough because it didn't have isolating engine mounts like it did in the truck, but it still ran.

As for tuning, you need to start doing this now. It's hard to learn without doing it. Go to Moates.net and pick you up an CABL1+ALDL1 and start datalogging with TunerProRT. I don't know crap about TBI Ecms, other than the fact that they're forever behind the TPI ecms.

Advice: Start off slow, and drop a TPI 350 in your car, and learn about tuning, engine building, and proper part selection while doing so.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

I have to put in my 2 pennies here. If you really want to "future proof" your car I say get a GenIII engine. As much as I love my L03 and I will defend TBI to the death The best bang for your buck would b3 either a 5.3,5.7,6.0,6.2 or better. If you visit www.ls1tech.com go to the conversions and hybrids section or go to our own LTX LSX section for what you can do.
BUT.............if you heart is really stuck on the 305 just read the stickies here. here's alittle info.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...i-buildup.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...-synopsis.html

89_RS

What crawled up your *** and died this morning? Lets start from the top, seeing as how its nigh on impossible for you to actually read this thread before yelling at me.

First off, this $800 dollar car was my 15th birthday present and my parents paid $4500 for it when it was worth that much, so the car carries great sentimental value to me. Also, I'm a firm believer in working with what you already have and making the best of it. So if you'll leave the engine swap idea alone, it'll save you alot of time, I've already made up my mind on this.

Secondly, since I'm already in the land of diminishing returns and am using TBI, FI is almost an impossibility for me to consider.

Finally, the 3rd gen will never be like a 1st gen as far as value goes, I give you that. However, its my 3rd gen and I want the best damn 305 TBI 3rd gen I can think of and this is it. My car done my way. You can take it or leave it.

Ok, with that out of the way, lets discuss use and parts.

Use: mainly DD with some strip, AX, and maybe the SSCC Touring class.

Parts: will reflect a street/strip DD car. Chrome Moly is still up in the air for me, I'm working with the stuff on a day to day basis now and as long as its welded properly, no problems with brittleness.

Tuning: am starting to learn how to tune. Joined my local student chapter of SAE and were working on tuning our motor right now.

Chassis: will get SFC's for sure.

Suspension: all tubular from Spohn, bolt on parts geared to toward a DD street/strip car

Drivetrain: Strange 12 bolt direct replacement with Posi and 3.42's, Hughes HD 700R4, and a stock replacement Extreme Duty/Strange Driveshaft.

Brakes: Baer Claw Sport brakes all wheels

Engine: Same 305 but modded my way and I'm going to be going true 3" duals. Doesn't really affect power too much, some of the best builds of 305's out there use the same exhaust I'm wanting to do.

Agreed. An LSx will most definately future proof my car. But at the end of the day, I'd still be spending almost the same amount of money and wheres the fun in just buying a fully built crate engine and swapping it in? Plus, I'd have to have space to store the LO3. And thanks for the threads, I had read the budget tbi thread a while back and read your tbi performance thread when it was in its infancy. Great amounts of info there for my current build.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Sorry if I came off pissed. I'm just sick of all of the "save the 305" nonsense when there are engines readily available, easily swappable, that take up the same dimensions and offer more Power/$$ than the 305. I'd use the same argument to get myself a 400, but those are in significantly less supply, and I don't want a two piece rear mains engine.

Once again, I apologize. I was waaay tired, and didn't sleep at all last night.

89_RS

Its alright, I too apologize for jumping down your throat. I agree that the 305 ain't the powerhouse that other engines are, yet it does have a fair amount of potential, but not enough to be the best motor out there. I just want to keep my 305 because thats what the car came with and I do want to maintain as much stock feel to the car as possible, yet make it the best performing car I can with what its already got.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Well, you should at least cheat a little bit and drop a TPI on top of there. You don't know torque until you get one. 340 ft/# at like 3000 RPM. Well, at least on my L98. You should be getting almost 300. Which isn't bad. Isn't bad at all.

Plus, the TPI looks cooler. :P

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT PUTTING TPI ON THERE!!!!!!!!!! To me it's side stepping not moving forward. IMHO