1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I'm in the process of gathering parts for my budget 305 build and I'm just wondering what y'all think about my parts selections ( cam mostly ) and how u think it will run compared to the stock internal LO3

Stock bottom end .030 over stock heads ported an polished by me w/1.94 intake valves summit intake idle-6000Rpm around 10:1 CR 1.6 full roller rockers Howard's HR cam advertised --> .485 .495 266 270 114 LSA 110IC 1000-5000rpm I figured the power band was listed for 350 so it would be slightly higher for a 305 correct ? And I figured the power band went well with the swirl ports ? March under drive pulley set , melting HP HV oil pump msd billet distributor , EBL flash , TT1 WB , windage tray , 620cfm CFM tech TBI , aero motive vrfpr w/ factory regulator delete , TPI pump , 4.10 gears , T5 , shitload of suspension upgrades ... I talked to someone about this cam and was told a tighter lSa would work better with the small port heads and would have more of a lopey idle (which I want ) but I got te 114 because I was worried about ease of tuning ? I'm seriously thinking about sendin this cam back to slumming and swapping for something about te same with a 110-112 LSA? Thanks or any help guys ! I'm wanting to get this thing running 8.000's in 1/8 th so I can dust my dads 08 GT lol .. U think this combo could get me close to that ? If not what do I need to do to this little 305 ? I seriously thought about making a 334 stroker lol but I think it will not be cost effective ...

Dewey316

I would stick with the 114 LSA on the cam (i'm guessing duration at .050 is about 212/218 or so?????), you could tune in a cam that size on a 110, if you wanted to. That is not a huge cam, so even on a 110, the overlap is not going to be nuts. With the 305, that cam on a 114 shoudl pull nicely and still have a lot of usable torque. I think your going on the right track. It will end up with a noticable idle, but it won't be really lumpy.

It should be a good combo, the magic will be in what you do with the heads and the porting. The swirl ports may not be so easy to port, you may consider a set of LB9 or 416 heads (for a cheap factory head to use to port out) If you get some good flow and use an intake with a large plenum volume, you should be good for 240 or so to the wheels, but in a really usable package and still fairly easy to get a tune nailed down.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

My bad I was a lol off I was pulling #s off tops head .. Gross lift at cam is 325 .330 214 218@.050 ..... Adv. .488 264 .495 270 ... Which I'm using 1.6 rockers too so that puts me at .520 & .528 ...... IO@-3 IC@37 EO@47 EC@-9 TDC overlap -12

Also where to u think my power band will take a dive at with this cam and 305 ? 53-5500 possibly ?

Dewey316

That cam should pull closer to 6k for your shift point. My 206/216 cam makes peak HP right at 5300, so I shift a bit past that. As long as all is healthy (valve springs, large enough intake, etc. You'll probably have a shift point of right around 6k, with the actual HP peak being in the 5600-5800 range.

--John

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Sweetness .. Exactly what I wanted haha .. And yea I got new pushrods new roller lifters the suggested valve springs & retainers and the summit intake is rated for idle-6000 rpm .. Ima port match everything and smooth up the intake as well ! The limiting factor I believe will be the factory LO3 heads :-/ but with some good porting and the 1.94 intake I believe they will do ok with this combo.. I will also be deshrouding the valves as best I can and polishing the chamber to keep hot spots and detonation at a minimum

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Are u running LO3 heads ? What ur HP on motor ? Also how much are u spraying it ? Forged pistons ? I thought about like a 75 shot but I'm useing hyperneutic pistons n didn't know what they would handle

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

Honestly man build a 350. I probably had the fastest NA TBI 305 on these boards and even that was underwhelming, it was a mid to low 13 second car at best. Don't get me wrong it was fun but at the end of the day I wish I would've never wasted my time on it. I had ZZ4 heads/cam with 1.6 rockers on the intake/1.5 on the exhaust with an RPM intake and a ultimate tbi on top. I'm building an LT1 based 383 now that I wish I would've done years ago. Trust me you'll be happier in the end going bigger.

Dewey316

i'm running 416 heads (from the early 305 HO motors, basically the same port and chamber design as the LB9 heads). I ported them in myself, but left the 1.84 valves in. I am then running a weiand team-g single plane intake with them, all port matched to a felpro 1205.

The motor put down 230 HP to the wheels on a dynojet in N/A form, it did 305 to the wheels (at 440 lbs/ft ) on the spray.

Stock L03 bottom end with 260k miles on it! but I'm spraying a 120 shot, although only getting about 75 rwhp from it.

For reference, my cam is an UltraDyne 272/282 206/216 .447 .447 112LSA but I'm only runnign it with 1.5 rockers. So it is a pretty mild cam setup, but it works well with the intake and head combo I have.

I do sort of agree, if I was paying for pistons and rebuild, I would go the 350 route if you haven't already bought and paid for that. I wouldn't spend the money on a 305 unless you do almost all the work yourself on dirt cheap parts. I sure as heck wouldn't be paying for .030 over hyper pistons for a 305.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Actually a whole set of speed pro hyper pistons are only 151$ on summit ! .. The distributor is actually the most expensive piece at 250$ lol but all parts like that can be swapped to a 350 in the future like intake rockers dizzy etc.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I think the quickest TBI 305 belonged to me and my brother and probably still does with his TBI 305 1980 Vette. It has ported 059 vortecs, victor jr 4bbl intake, long tube headers, and a nice cam.

You were just touching the tip of the iceberg with your 305 build. The ZZ4 cam is ultra mild and those heads could have been ported to flow much better.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

That cam is actually slightly bigger and on a wider LSA than the one I had in my TPI 305 build that peaked HP @ 6,000. I had ported 059s with 1.94/1.60 valves, a 3817 TPI base and siamese ported SLP runners. I had more than 90% of my peak torque from 2,500-5,800 rpm. It was a perfect street engine that pushed 5,600 lbs to a 15.00 @ 94 mph with a 3.08 gear.

EDIT----That was stock runner times....With the SLPs it went 14.63 @ 96.55

My cam was a Reed

260/264* @ .008, 208/212 @ .050, .480/.507" lift w 1.6:1 rockers, 112* LSA, 108* ICL

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

ok my bad, I had ONE of the few quick Tbi 305 cars on the board,lol. And after I tore the engine down and my skill as a porter has DRAMATICALLY increased ( I have my own business now) I know I definitely gone much faster with the 305 that I had but alas the little motor has gone to another home. Maybe one of these days just for ***** and giggles I'll build another 305 TBI car to see if I can go even further.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

So how do u think this cam will perform Fast355 ? I'm using the stock heads for now but will prolly swap on some aftermarket aluminum heads in the future with 1.94 1.6 valves .. That could also be swapped onto a 350 in te future if need be I think the ones I was looking at we're 59cc chambers .... Any of y'all got a 1/4 or 1/8 th mile educated guess on this build ? With stock heads ported and 1.94 intake ?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Relax...I was just busting your chops a little. I know your car was more than quick for what it was.

After building about 5 different 305 setups, I got a couple of them right and got them to fly. Porting takes some talent for sure as does matching up all the components.

I am working on a 390 for my 68 galaxy that is going to be bored/stroked to 445 CID with a set of ported Edelbrock Alumnium heads and a custom grind hydraulic roller cam. I am actually worried about making more HP than the block can support!

I guess you could say I am on to bigger things than the 305, however I am planning to either run a GM based MPFI or TBI setup so I am not going away from my roots.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Depending on the intake manifold and exhaust setup you should be anywhere between 275 and 325 HP. The intake, header, exhaust differences will make that much of a variation. That being said with a 1.94 valve, you should not have much trouble getting those heads to flow ~220 cfm on the intake side and 160-180+ on the exhaust at .500" with a strong lower lift flow. Since you are going to be building an engine that will peak somewhere in the 5,500-5,800 rpm range, I would probably run a S10 torque converter and 3.23 gears. With a 3.23 posi setup I would think it could get into the 8s in the 1/8 and run high 13s in the 1/4 pretty easily.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I have A T-5 with 4.10 gears and posi and ram clutch good for 400+ hp .. I also have adj pandard an tubular LCA's UMI torque arm with relocation Trans crossmember stock replacement moog springs and KYB-GR2's .. I have shorty headers 1.5" primaries have been cleaned up at the flange into 2.5 collector and 2.5" y pipe into a flowmaster 2.5-3" y merge and 3" all the way back to flowmaster cross flow with a 3" cutout righ on front of the rearend and the summit brand dual plane manifold is rated at idle -6000rpm which I will be doing some minor port matching and cleaning up the casting imperfections etc. on the manifold also ... So u think I can get 200+ CFM out of the swirl ports ? Seriously ? When I start porting them I'm going to post pics here and would like to get any port recommendations possible .. This will be my first port job on heads (besides my 5hp Briggs & Stratton motors when I was 11-14 lol) but I did buy a David vizzard book off amazon ( how to port and flow test heads ) that I have been reading ALOT ! Thanks ppl !

Oh yea I'm running 28" tall tires as well so that takes a little of the rear gear away ... I found this freshly rebuilt rearend with 4.10 posi disc brakes (I had drums) new calipers&rotors&pads new swaybar bushings brake lines etc. for 500$ n I couldn't pass it up ! I wish it woulda been 3.73's but the 4.10's really ain't that bad with the T-5 70+ mph at around 2400-2600 In 5th I think

Edit2: oh yea another? I had was do u think this cam should be installed "straight up" ? My timing set is good for 6* either way in 2* increments

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

IMO...I would install it at 110* ICL or maybe even 108* ICL.....Yea it will make the cam seem smaller, but it will help it pull stronger in the midrange with little top-end sacrifice on the 114* LSA. You will be running heads that are limiting your top-end anyway.

Your header primaries are a little smaller than I would like, even on a 305, but should work well in the lower rpm ranges around town.

I am fairly sure you can get over 200 CFM out of them. The ones I tested were around 175 @ .450 in stock form and responded to changes in the valve seats. They also responded to port work. I never cut them for 1.94s, but suspect that the lower lift flow numbers would have improved nicely.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Installed straight up te cam is already a 110 ICL 114LSA ! Thanks go the info guys I would be stoked if I could get 300-325 out of this build ! Ill prolly also need some help in the tuning on this thing .. I can't seem to get my VE right on this thing right now but I'm thinking it has alot to do with all the oil in the exhaust ... It's ALOt foreal ... Like a *** ton .. Thing smokes like a train when u get on it then let off but it has like 240k on engine ... Also I was wondering how much HP the WC T-5 can handle ? I know it prolly won't last long after the rebuild lol

Anyone know wht the intake gasket part number is that has the exhaust crossover blocke off ? Felpro or equivalent ... Also I was looking for a .015 head gasket ?

Dewey316

Head gasket will be dependent on piston/block. If you deck the block at all to zero the pistons, then you need a thicker gasket to get your quench right. After you get it built, find out what your piston install height is, and get the quench right. Its important to have it correct for detonation resistance.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Holy crap .. This is the cam comp recommended for this build lol

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=210&sb=0

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

About as dumb as the one they tried to sell me for my Express.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

A 292 for a 305? damn that's a touch excessive lol.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I know right WTF ! ... In the aplication form I told em if like to shift at around 6000-6300 lol so looks like they just pulled one of the shelf that said 6200

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I'm only gonna be running 10:1 compression ratio that cam would need something like 12:1 to run right IMO .. I won't be buyin no comp crap .. I think ill stick with Howard's I've read only good things about them the only part of my valve train that won't be Howard's is the lifter n that just cause I already ordered them :-/ .. Pushrods, springs , retainers , locks , & cam are all Howard's .. Only thing I need to order now is the rebuild kit an I'm waiting for that to check out my main and rod journals to see if I need .010 under or not .. Hopefully not ! Less machine wrk = less $ lol .. Any other suggestions on this build would be greatly apretiated ... What do I need to make 300hp with this cam etc. .. Could I go any higher on CR on 93 ? .. I may even run a couple gallons of 110 per tank If neccessary .. But really don't want too .. I also need some suggestions on a SA TAble to start with on these LO3 heads .. Should I just start with the stock LO3 timing table ? I've looked through all the bins provided with EBL and the LO3 -LO5's have the lowest SA by FAR ! The next lowest is the Vortec I believe and it is still way higher in most cells .. After polishing the combustion chamber I should be able to get more SA without detonation correct ? Also any suggestions on slightly reshapeing the chamber would be awesome cause I know it is prolly far from optimal .. And most stock chambers respond well to a little shaping correct ?

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Dang what happen .. My thread blew up tha first day then died lol

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I'm trying to get a rough estimate of what my compression is going to be with these pistons they are flat tops with 4 valve reliefs (5cc) .. I thought the LO3 came with flat tops but I read here on TGO they are slightly dished pistons stock ... I would figure it up myself but idk the factory specs on the block .. I've heard it is .025 in the hole ? And idk the factory gasket thickness ? Thanks

Would it be possible to get this thing to 10-10.5:1 with these pistons ?

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Does anyone have a fel pro intake manifold gasket number tht would be good for Lo3 ported heads ? Idk the runner dimensions stock ? And haven't tore engine down yet .. Thanks !

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

I would go with the 1205 gaskets but BE CAREFUL not to port through the pushrod pinch. Don't go any bigger than 1.05 or you'll bust through.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Ok thanks !

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Ha I thought I was about done porting the intake till
The 1205 gaskets showed up .. I've got a good bit of material to remove to match the gaskets .. Is it true that u should leave the intake a few thousandths smaller than the gasket and the heads a few larger than the gasket ? I would think a smooth transition would be better

Dewey316

opening up at the head a fraction is good, it will keep turbulance in the flow near the port walls, this will keep the fuel in suspension. Just dont have the head opening smaller than the gasket and intake, you don't want that wall.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Ok I gotcha .. Thanks .. I have all of my parts piled up in the garage .. N just got off the phone with the machine shop .. I'm going to meet him Monday to go over everything that's gonna be done and get a quote .. I still haven tore engine down or even pulled it .. I've just been riding around trying to ge the feel for the EBL flash as much as possible before te tear down .. I'm actually just now starting to get the tune dialed in good and ima have to start all over again lol ... But truthfully I can't wait to get it done .. Like I said before 8.00's in 1/8 th and ill be happy .. If not 100 shot ! Haha

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Went to the track last night and ran a 9.82 @ 71.5mph in 1/8th on street tires bone stock engine besides exhaust , 1.6 rockers , CFM tech TBI & EBL .. With a T-5 Trans also ... Thing was spinnin pretty bad as well .. Anyways I just thought that was pretty good for an LO3

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

You are almost as quick as my 2012 crew cab Nissan Titan went with 2* timing advance bump and 24 psi in the rear tires as the only mods. As quick as it is, I would be shocked to have a stockish L03 run with it.

I went 9.48 @ 74.50 in 200 da.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Haha all my mods are in my sig I ran 9.804 tonight at just a touch under 72 mph .. Haha I'm really surprised with it .. I have 18" rims tires call for 51 psi n I'm running 30 psi in em don't wanna go too low with only 3-4" of sidewall .. Oh and they are only like 9" tread width

Dewey316

What are you 60' times? I looked at an old time slip, not my fastest by far, but for perspective. my 1/4 times on this run were 14.502@94.6mph, on that run, with a 2.246 my 1/8th mile time was 9.346@76.230.

I think I would have been in the 215 rwhp range at that time. With the mods you have planned, dipping into the 8's in the high 70mph, with a good launch you can probably hit 80mph, range should be doable, but its hard to say. I have nitrous runs that were mid 13's @ 103-106mph ranges, where I was still in the 9.0xx range and trapping the 1/8th at the 82-83 range. Drag racing is funny business, a few tenths out of the hole makes a big deal in the 1/8th and a huge deal in the full 1/4.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

My best run was a 9.804 with 60ft of 2.2288 my 330's r around 3.365 and mph 71.84 ... Which last year around this time my best run was 10.07 @ 68.5 MPh with 60ft @ 2.190 idk I been running with my exhaust uncapped this year so I think I lost some torque over full exhaust and gained some mph .. Which last year I was running a TBIchips.com tune & now I'm using EBL .. How can I gain some low end with the tune ? More low rpm SA ? More launch mode SA ? Also i was wondering what the PE SA adder tables should look like for a 5 speed manual Trans ? ... Also when I do the rebuild should I start with the tune I have now or start all Over ? I would think it would be closer on initial start up with what I have now compared to the base bin correct ? .. Should I modify the VE tables somehow before initial startup due
To the bigger cam an higher CR ? Thanks !

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Disassembly begins .. I just wanted to get a base of what my times are now so I will know how much it improved with the rebuild .. Also wanted to get my SA and VE tables as close as possible before hand so it will be closer to right on break in and initial firing .. Last time I was at the track I was at 12.4-12.9 AFR across the board at WOT ... I will also unlock int & bLM and use closed loop on initial firing so it can compensate .. Anyways .. Ill keep this thread posted with updates along te way ! .. Seriously still thinkin about sending this cam back for one with same specs in a 110-112 LSA lol but idk

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Motor is out finally .. I had to remove the whole damn front bumper to get my cherry picker close enough to pull it

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Any suggestion on what color to paint engine bay and the engine itself ? I'm thinking a black bay with red engine to match all my red suspension parts

Trevmust

how do you test fuel injectors with a multimeter again?

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Set it to lowest ohms setting and touch both terminals with multimeter .. It should read between 6- 18 ohms or so

morgsie

iTrader: (1)

That only tests the coil, doesn't really tell you how they are spraying or flowing.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Very true .. But he asked how to test with a multimeter ... To check spray pattern .. It needs to be an upside V pattern that should hit the TB bores slightly above the throttle blades .. Also u can get a better view of spray patterns by using a timing light .. And it should be a full cone pattern .. If injectors are not working properly u can take em out and soak em in kerosene injector cleaner mineral spirits etc. for a couple days

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

You can make power with a 305 if you're willing to have all the headaches of a high RPM race car and half the power those bad street manners would get you with a 383.

10-10.5:1 compression, 416 or better heads (Stock swirlports are le garbage), 220-230ish duration cam (@.050), loose stall, short gears... you can make it work. It wont be worth it, and it wont be as much fun as a bigger inch motor would be.... but it wont stop you from doing it.

Swirl ports are going to be a huge limitation. Why even bother going through all this expense and trouble if you're not even going to upgrade the heads? I mean you MIGHT hit 200fwhp if you're lucky if you stay with the swirlports. You're talking probably $1000-$2000 investment and a lot of time to get 30-50 more horsepower than a stock 170hp L03. We are talking less power than a factory L98 for for 3 times the cost of a pullout LT1 swap that you can hit 280hp with if you drop it straight in.

Even if you do a super amazing porting job that actually works you might hit 230ish... but the swirlports already have fairly large volume runners, just terrible flow. Opening them up for straight flow is probably going to give you really sluggish throttle response...

Trevmust

I was told an LT1 cam will do wonders. even a stock grind

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I believe I was prolly around 200 fwhp before I pulled it out .. Last time I was at the track I ran a 9.802 @ 71 mph and that was spinning pretty bad And babying it out the hole .in a full weight car and my gf in the passenger seat ... And I'm just using these heads for now because its what I got .. I can always do a head swap later down the road to HO heads or trick flow's small cube aluminum heads ... I just got laid off from union hall and ran out of $ to spend on this thing ... But anyway .. I think it will be closer to the 270 fwhp mark than 230 with the ported swirl port heads ! Another deciding factor is the extremely efficient combustion chamber on the swirl ports over the 416 HO heads ... Which will also be having some valve deshrouding and smoothing done to them

Trevmust

timeslips or gtfo

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Ok .. Here ya go

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

And here is the # 4 still in my car from 247 drag way and FT from jakes drag way...

So anyways ... I pulled the cam out to compare to the new one an they sent me the wrong one .. It is a small base circle cam for a stroker motor ... So I have to send it back anyway ... And I'm thinking about swapping for a 110 or 112 LSA .... Let me know what y'all think ? Or should I stay with the 114 ? Go 116 ? Idk help me with this decision please ! I am also usin 1.6 full roller rockers .. Any suggestions would be awesome ... I've always heard that the tighter LSA woul help pull the charge through the poor flowing runners on a small cube engine ...
Stock LO3 cam specs are 375 391 lift on a 109 LSA !