Powerlover

I am trying to finish up my TPI swap, and i am having problems getting the engine running.

I Have tried adjusting my TPS, but i am not getting anything from the wires coming into the sensors.

one thing that struck me as strange, is that i never hooked up a constant 12v supply. I would think that one would be required.

I dont seem to be getting any spark, but cant figure out why.

Painless Wirings instructions lack much to be desired, they refer you here and there, but dont say anything specific.

The check engine light does not come on when i turn the ignition on, but it does come on while i am cranking. Then it goes out as soon as i stop.

I have fuel pressure (i dont have my pump wired through the computer).

I am lost!!!! HELP!!!!!

Powerlover

OK, I just wired the fuel pump into the computer, and the fuel pump doesnt cycle on now, and doesnt run at all. It is almost like the computer is dead, but i have swappen in my other one and it doesnt work either.

Powerlover

I found the 12v power wire on chevythunder.com . I had it hooked up to the starter relay wire, because the painless instructions didnt specify, and the lable on the wire just read starter.....DUH!!!!!


But. I still wont fire. I have no spark, and the check engine light does not go off with the key on. The fuel pump primes, and i have the TPS set properly now.


So what now??? I have power going into the coil, but am not sure how to check it coming out other than touching it......

Cruzin Kaz

What year is your car, and what year is the TPI system from?? you may have a VATS (Vehicle Anti Theft) problem. This can stop you from getting spark, fuel and sometimes will not allow the car to turn over. So we now your starter works..pull a plug wire, and see if you have spark. If you have spark.. then it is a fuel problem, but if no spark, it could be a coil or ignition module even.

Three main things you need for a engine to run.

Fuel
Spark
Compression

Check for the first two, and we can go from there.

Powerlover

The car is a 88 Mazda Rx7. The TPI is a 90 F-body Speed density setup. I have a VATS box wired in already to eliminate the VATS problem. I believe i have fuel (pump runs, and i have a fuel odor). I have alredy pulled a plugwire, but no fire. I have heat going into my coil, but none out of the distributer.

Cruzin Kaz

OK so for the most part we can eliminate the VATS..maybe. SO no spark at the plugs, now try from the coil itself. If no spark from the coil, it is most likely the coil, or your ignition module, worst case senario the ECM or Memcal is toast. So you have all the sensors and relay all hooked up properly? Knock sensor etc.?

On a side note, check all your grounds and fuses to the ECM..ya never know. My TPI swap stumped me for over a year, and I had some wiring and ground problems that were the casue. But go after the spark and fuel first. Aslo do the spark plugs smell like fuel?? They should if you are in fact getting fuel into the cylinders. Let me know what you find.

Powerlover

plugs are drenched in fuel. I cant get any fire from the coil. I will run and pick up a MSD blaster after lunch.

Powerlover

New module and new coil, and still no fire!!!!!

Cruzin Kaz

Hmmm.... Well this is unusuall then, so I am beginning to think you have either a bad ECM or the Memcal itself. Did you check all your fuses and grounds again?? Also check the connections to the Distributor. In fact I would go over the entire harnes again before I would buy anything else. you never know it a wire is lose, or you have a bad connection even.

Powerlover

I Have been over the entire harnes multiple times.

I have 2 ECU's. If i plug one in, the check engine light does a really quick blink, and thats it. I cant even get it into diagnostic mode. The pump primes, but no start. If i Put the other ECU on, The light never goes out, but diagnostic mode works, but also no start.

Im stumped.........

Cruzin Kaz

Well I am still thinking it may be a VATS problem. Try takign a pencil eraser to the chip on the key. IT may be sirty, and not allowing the resistance to flow through it. Also take a OHM meter to the chip, and let me know what the ohms resitance is. I have to take off now, as I am going to a wedding. But I will check tomarrow how things are, and maybe in the mean time someone else may chime in with some thoughts.

Powerlover

I dont have a vats key. I have a box to fool the computer into thinking that there is a vats key. This setup came out of a running jeep.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

well if the ses light does not come on and stay on when you have the KOEO then thats where you NEED to start. something to your ecm is not getting power or a ground . start there with a wiring diagram and make sure painless has everything hooked up.

Powerlover

KOEO??????? SES?????? um...

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

key on eng. off (run pos.) the light should be on steady

Powerlover

With the one ECU ( the one that the self diagnostic mode works with) it does stay on. So why no fire??????

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

1st do you have any codes? why does one ecm work and not the other is one bad or both?

Powerlover

Codes. No.. the motor has never run. I was hoping you could tell me about the ECM part.....

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

what are you using to check for codes? if you are using the jumper method then yes you should have code 12. the car having ran or not has no effect.

Powerlover

Well, I thought code 12 was kinda a given.....just meaning that the self diagnostic feature was working properly.

Yes i am using the jumper method.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

ok I guess I did not catch that the one worked in diagnostic mode. It looks like you need power from Ign. to the coil check to see if you have 12v at the wire connector it is the same side that hooks to "a" on the modual 2 wire terminal

Powerlover

i have good power to the coil....thanks for the try...

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

my scanner died two years ago other wise I would just send you the whole flowchart and diagram.

Powerlover

A wiring diagram would really help. I may buy a haines manual on the way home tonight. I have power going to the coil, but i dont think the computer is diong whatever it is supposed to to trigger the coil to either charge or fire.

What do the 4 wires going to the coil do?

What do the wires going to the distributer do?

Again thanks for the help in the troubleshooting...... Anybody else want to take a whack at it?

I have an old big style HEI distributer that I could put on, but it is vaccum advance, and it would probably make the computer freak out. Any suggestions.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Go to the Thirdgen.org homepage and go to the Tech Articles Section. In Electrical, you will find a link to a couple of sites that have wiring diagrams for 86-87 F-Bodies, including engine control and power distribution, and others. These are scans from a Camaro techbook, so you can't go wrong here.

Powerlover

Werent 86-87 MAF systems? I have a SD system. And mine uses the Separate coil small distributer, not the big HEI unit with the ESC module.

Cruzin Kaz

Hmm haven't gotten anywhere yet eh?? 85 -89 were in fact MAF, 89 was the first year for VATS, 90 -92 is SD but the ESC module is asctually built into the Memcal/Prom instead of it being under the hood with the Relays.

Powerlover

I wonder if that is where the problem lies. Later this morning i will swap the chips in the ECU's and see if there is a difference. I was told that both chips were burned identically. We will se later. We just got in from church, and im gonna grab something to eat and then try that. I am also going to try disconnecting the tach wire. I have heard that sometimes the tach will ground or short, and keep the ignition form working properly......

Powerlover

Ok, i swapped the chips. Now the one that didnt seem to work does and the one that did, doesnt now. So the differences are obviously in the chips. I disconnected the tach signal wire, and there was no difference there. I have no fire!!!!

I wonder if it is the pickup coil......

Cruzin Kaz

Well check for power.

Powerlover

Where?

I am not sure what i am diong with this type of Ignition system.

What ever happened the the old points and condensor systems?

Cruzin Kaz

You did say that you changed your Ignition Module correct? This is in the distrbutor, and so is the pick up coil so to speak. I am leaning towards ECM and Prom failuer though. Who burned your Proms for you?? I am not saying they didnt' do it right, but just curious to the settings that are on it, but it still seems to be a VATS problem too. Are you sure this box you have is still in working order??

Powerlover

I bought this system used. The two prom came with it. The guy had two ECU's and PROM's so that while one was out for mods, he had another to run with. Supposedly, both PROM's are burned identically. But obviously not. This setup was in a jeep that was used for mud drags, and the guy was ditching the tpi for 2 4bbl carbs on a high winding (10,000rpm) 327.

There is a new coil on the car, and a new module in the distributer. I have no idea how to check the pickup coil to see if its bad.

Cruzin Kaz

OK lets start here then. Check voltage at the battery needs to be at least 11.5 volts. If good, now check voltage at the power wire on the coil. If that is 11.5 then check the gap between the pickup coil and the distributor. Also check all the wires again at the distributor for any sings of wear, corrosion etc. I ahv elooked through all my tech bulletins and all, we have done everything it has said to do and look for , plus we have replace the Igntion module and the coil. So...it is either the ECM and Prom are bad, you have some bad wires somewhere, or the Distrubutor is shot.

Powerlover

OK....Now i have fire.

I pulled a few plugs to check for fuel, and it is strange because some of them are wet, but some are not.

I got the motor to hit once, but thats it. I have messed with the timing, but it doesnt seem to help.

How do i check to see if my injectors are all pulsing?

Cruzin Kaz

Well to really check them you need a noid light. So you have spark now, after wiggleing some wires?? If so, you should go over them all well. So some are wet and some dry? Hmmm.. Was the Distributor out since you got it form the fella with the Jeep? You may have the distributor 180* out, or even off a tooth or two. Hmmm. Let me know.

Powerlover

The distributer has been out, but it is not sputtering through the intake or backfiring like its 180* off.

Dont tell anybody, but it was the distributer cap button that was bad. It was fine when i checked it last week before i started the swap, but now if you move the button at all, it looses contact.......whatever.

I will get it back to top dead center and pull the cap to see if it is timed right.....AGAIN!!!!

UGHHH!!.... maybe i shoulda stayed with the carb setup......

Cruzin Kaz

LOL!! Well everyone can read for themselves, so they will all know, but I figured that would have been all brand new, as that is what I did with my Swap, but you said you didn't have spark from the coil before no??? If I knew you had spark at the Coil we may have found this earlier. Oh well Let me know how you make out. Carb can be a pain too if you aren't sure how to set it all up right. But you'll be happy with the torq you will get out of the TPI, but your little RX7 is going to have some traction issues now.

Powerlover

HOLY FREAKIN CRAP!!!!!!! This is a fast wrapping motor now!!!!! I have to flush out the cooling system, and fine tune a few things(i.e. timing) but its alive!!!

Thanks for all your help!!!!!!

I couldnt have done it without ya!!!!!!

Crap...i forgot my throttle cable and T.V. cable are on order still. Oh well. Ill get the little stuff done for monday.....

Cruzin Kaz

LOL!! Glad to hear you got her running. OH yeah the TPI's RPM climb very fast! What tranny are you using with it? But yeah you'll need your Throttle calbe adn TV cable to drive her. Time for some big tires to keep the tire spin down, or a better gear.

Your very welcome too, it is why I am here..to try to help out at any time.

Powerlover

OK here is the scoop now....

She runs pretty good. Better than i expected actually. But the idle is pretty crappy. The idle speed changes alot, and it idles VERY rich. I think it is due to my big cam. 224/230 .770/.460 with 1.6 roller rockers. I will need to get a custome chip burned to get that right.

There is a TON of throttle response, and it revs very smoothly. It puffs black smoke, but im sure the chip will take care of the richness.

Cruzin Kaz

Well go over all your Vac lines and sensors to make sure everything is just right.. Also I would reset the TPS and the IAC to makes sure she'll all set right. You can find the instructions here... https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/tpimod2.shtml But yeah a custom chip will help once you get it right that is. Keep me posted on how your coming.

Powerlover

In that article it says to start the motor afer disconecting the IAC. Is that while leaving the paperclip in the A&B ports?

There is supposed to be a guy here in Memphis that is pretty good at PROM burning, so i will have that taken care of soon.

I am running a built 200-4r trannie built by yours truly. It is perfect for the gearing of the car.

I also need to find someplace to put my knock sensor. I cant get the plugs out of the side of the block. I guess i will just weld up a bracket or something to mount to the motor mount.

Im headed outa here for awhile. I will check back in later.