VetNutJim

Hey guys I know this has been asked a thousand times so I thought I'd make it 1001.

Quality wise which is the better crankshafts and rods:
I see a lot of Eagle and a lot of Scat parts out there.

What's the concensus on the quality of each of these brands?
Is there a clear winner between the two of these?

I know there's a couple of other mfgs, (Callies, etc) but they are a little out of my price range.

All advice is appreciated guys.

ME Leigh

David Vizard, engine guru likes Scat products alot and uses them in all his builds. So thats gotta count for something.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I'm running JE pistons, Eagle crank and rods has seen 8,500 rpm a ton .....
never used scat so I can't comment on their stuff ..
I have heard that all the stuff is made on the same damn line so who knows

VetNutJim

Hey Tony,

Are you running the cast crank to 8500 ?
5.7 or 6" rods?

doc

If you expect to spin the assembly above 6,000 RPM frequently and be reliable, then a forged crank is a must. Eagle forged cranks are good, so are the SCAT forged cranks. The most reliable forged crank for the money is arguably the Callies DragonSlayer line of cranks. IMO.

In my 395 stroker motor, I have the Callies DragonSlayer, Eagle forged rods, and SRP pistons. This is probably overkill for me because I expect to spin the assembly no faster than 6,000 RPM.

jcb999

You are running a 400+ cid motor 8500 rpm? Why. I seriously doubt it is making HP up there.


In a nut shell, reduce the rotating mass and almost any part will live fine in the 6500 rpm range (even stock rods). But please dont assemble it with stock rods.

ME Leigh

Is your tach set on the 6cyl setting?

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I have the cast Eagle crank, eagle forged H beams and hyper speed pro pistons. I had it balanced internally and it spins so smooth. I've had it to about 6000 so far, but with a SR and a small duration cam the motor stays in the lower RPM range

SMasterson

I realize you guys are thinking drag or hot street car but when you miss the gearing on a 1/2 mile dirt track IMCA modified 410ci 8k rpm isn't hard to reach. Typically, 7600 to 7800 is the goal. But, we'd never do it without a forged crank.

When I started building my 383 I used a Scat 9000 crank and Eagle light weight rods, SRP pistons. It was a few thousand dollars, better heads, three camshafts, three totally different intake systems later before I really regreted not going all forged to start with.

6800+rpm 1/8 mile passes became the normal and my butt puckers each run. I was only about $500.00 away from not having to worry about the bottem end, (as much.) To change now I'd need different pistons, different rods, (might as well balance internally) different cranks and pay to have it all balanced again.

See, I wasn't that far from there before I started, now I'm a couple of grand away.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Slingin mud explains it all LOL, when we were down dynoing the motor for the truck the guy making the pulls got a phone call....his frined on the other end was heading to a loose track that night and wondered if he could bring along a 9000 chip pack to the track so he did'nt over rev it

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

the only thing i have to say about eagle and scat is, chinesium. their metalurgy is of lower standards then that of the us. the two shops i deal will not touch it, unless a customer insists on saving a few dollars

Rick King

I spin a GM factory stell crank and "o" rods to 8200 rpm in a 327 with trw slugs press fit-- no probs--everything is weight matched and internaly balanced.

later
and

GB

rk

jcb999

IMO, RPM on shorttrack motors should be even more closely watched. Excessive RPM can mean death to them much quicker. Even shorttrack motors should have a revlimiter. Its one thing to buzz it there by "accident". Is another to intentionally turn it there and expect positive results.

If the combination is setup to turn 76-7800, a 5 percent over rev is nothing. If its designed (as in close to factory mass) to turn 6000 and someone expects it to go 8000, they are going to have some parts in low earth orbit. Again, I have never seen a motor with 3.75" stroke make peak hp above 7000 that did not have a bigbuck (IE 18degree) topend. And those combinations are not likely to have lowbuck bottomends.

VetNutJim

All good information guys.

What about an engine designed for mild 'vanilla' street use?

One where the upper RPM limit would be, say, 6500 RPM?
Maybe even a little lower, say 6200 RPM.

Would that require a forged crank, super rods and forged pistons?

There are probably a lot of us enthusiast out here that don't really want to 'take it to the track'.
We just want an engine wiht that great 'torqey' feeling that will operate in the lower stratosphere of the RPM range that will be reliable and long lived.

At least that's what "I" want.

I agree if you want to spend the bucks of you are in the 'race for the chase' every Saturday night then all forged is the only way to go.

For the fun it would give ME the Callies equipment is way out of the range I want to spend.


Questions:
1) Are these 'Chiensium' cranks, etc. all junk?

2) Again, for a mild 383 making, oh say 1.25HP/CI are the cast Eagles and Scats a good deal?

3) Is custom balancing them an absolute reguirement?

4) Are a lot of you running the external balancing flexplate and damper on your strokers?

5) Is internal balance worth the 50 or 60 bux extra on these low end crankshafts?

6) (I DON'T want to have to buy a small basecircle camshaft)
AS it applies to the camshaft, NOT engine efficiency, are the 6" rods "much" better than the 5.7" rods?




Great advice guys, PLEASE kep it coming.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

So long as the aprts are checked for any imperfections by magna glowing, then have the parts balanced factory cast crank, factory rods and at least hyperutctic slugs will hold up for a long long time at the rpm your talking about. I'm sure there will be mixed opinions on this statement, but a cast steel crank is somewhat forgiving in the respect it will flex a little when pushed, push a forged peice and it breaks.

1. There are many guys I race with that use Scat and Eagel components is applications alot more stressed environment than what your thinking about and they have not had any problems to speak of and all these motors know is 100% WOT their entire life. In a street app. where part throttle driving will be the norm, these lower priced peices are kinda the bang for the buck since they are new peices.

2. I street drive mine ever chance I get and run 2 day brackets races every weekend making roughly 1.5hp/cid. Motor runs perfectly still, no oil leaks to speak of, and I say again if I had an OD tranny of gear vendor unit I would drive this thing anywhere people dared. As long as the motor is assembled correctly you can do more with less so long as you dont intend on winding the chit out of it on a regular basis-that's why my shift rpm is 6K, I picked up very little to justify taking it to 7K all the time.

3. Yes, if you are taking it up to 6-65K definately and it will make the parts happier internally with the smoothness.

4. Mine is a stock .060 350 block 4 bolt main, 400 crank, 5.7 rods, and aftermarket flexplate/damper-so it's externally balnaced. I have no issues with it, alot of guys prefer internal and

5. if your ordering new stuff, buy it for internal balance.

6. 6" rods have less piston sideload when on the compression stroke and have a longer dwell time at TDC than the 5.7 Some guys sear by them others that have dynoed independently say they have seen no "real" benefit from this. With the 5.7 rod you can use a regular cam, you might be able to get away with a regualr cam if you get stroker based rods, but measurements will have to be taken since it will get kind of tight depending on parts used, I know mine is very close internally and with flex/heat-up it's about as close as I'd go personally.

The 383 in the S-10 I race has 6" rods, small base circle cam which is huge compared to mine, Dart 230 Pro 1's, 12.5:1 compression, 700lbs lighter-I'm running darn near identical ET and the same mph, and that truck only sees track use-not set-up for street. Both of us have power brakes so we're giving up some power due to that fact in the grind of the cam.

I was in your same boat before I put this motor together, budget was a concern since the rest of the car had to take the hit behind the motor so I had alot to spend money on and the short block got the short end. You will drive yourself crazy with the endless possibility of putting stuff together for your combo. It boils down to, your not trying to reinvent the wheel. There are plentiful examples of guys running cast parts-and alot of factory cast parts at that-running just as fast as guys with the $4K shortblock. If assembled correctly, not spun tight continually, maintained correctly no matter which route you go it should last a long time.

tilstad

Just thought I should mention that world products, on their motown 454 smallblock ( and others) use Eagle crank and rods. They even give a 2 year/24 thousand mile warranty, and 595hp in the street version. I think Eagle would be okey...

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

so what cranks are you guys running? im either going to get cola, or maybe a dragonslayer. i was thinking 3.75 stroke, i knew i was going to have to clearance the block, but the shop said i would have to fill it it too. so i was thinking i might as well go bigger if i can

Rockin-Iroc

Interesting stuff. I think 6500 rpm might be plenty for the street. The thing about 7000+ rpm engines are, you have to cam them so they make that power upstairs. And if it's cammed hairy enough to do that, you're NOT going to be happy below 4000 rpm anywhere on the street.

I had a hairy solid roller cam in my 427 big block in the 68 Corvette. The only time that motor was happy was over 7000 rpm on the on ramp, and then it rocked. At all other times, I didn't like the cam. I'm backing off to one that has a 3000-6700 rpm band, and changing to an Air Gap RPM dual plane for the street.

So before you build your monster motor, it's good that you're researching cranks and rods, but it's important to go for what environment you'll drive your car most of the time in...not for what looks cool or to be like what the racers run. So decide your goal and design around that.

(P.S., 8000 rpm on a 3.75" 400 crank??? WOW!!!)

VetNutJim

There are a lot of the complete rotating assemblies out there in the 500~700 buck range. Cast cranks,etc.
These are the 'low end' of the stroker motor realm.

I've built a lot of engines and will do the fitting/measuring/assembly on this one although it's my first foray into the stroked SBC world.
I'm probably going to run a converted LT1 intake on it so it will be able to twist to 6000 and not have RPM limited by intake capacity.

I LOVE TPI but I think 383 CI will be too much for it.

I know the environment and use the engine will be put to and I'm not building a high RPM engine.

Even with the lower priced stroker kit the total cost of the engine will approach $2500.
It's sort of like computers, I guess. It's darn hard to build one cheaper than you can buy one ready to go.

But I'm pretty committed to be a 'do it yourselfer'.


So is the concensus to go with the low end stroker "kit", already balanced, 5.7 rods, a general "Yes"?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

I still say after hearing from multiple builders your better off having it balanced at a shop in town than a "pre-balanced" deal.

At least this way you know you parts actually had someones personal time on it ensuring it was right instead of a mass production assembly line.

Rockin-Iroc

I love the TPI too, but I agree with you. When I stroke my 355 4-bolt to a 383, I'm pretty sure the TPI will be too much of a restriction. If I want to leave it a 5000 rpm redline, I could keep the TPI and go with the siamesed runners for the extra top end. But I have to watch it with the cam. The Iskendarian 270 Mega-cam that I am currently running is almost too much for our smog tests here in Colorado. I might keep that cam for the larger engine, but instead of running hard to 5200, I might only get 5000 rpm out of it. So for my smog-legal combination, it might not do me any good to get a system that'll run to 6000, because I can't cam for that and still pass emissions here.

But for those of you fortunate enough not to have such strict smog laws, you might check into the Lingenfelter design. It's a much larger upper plenum and shorter intake runners, but it dyno tests far superior to TPI in the upper band, and is ideal for a 383. Plus it's got a lower height than the Holley Stealth Ram.

But the Stealth Ram might also be another option for you if you have the hood clearance. That looks good too!

funstick

well i dont know about alot of other junk heads on the market out there but i know for a fact brodix track 1's can flow big air if properly ported. they flow good air out of the box. 330 cfm with cnc porting a 2.125 intake valve in a 4.125 bore at 700lift. id call that as good if not better then most 18* heads out there. and thats in a 23* head that not terriably exspensive. jim if you want more detial on that toss me an email ill hook you up with my head guy.

as for the peak rpm for a 400+ small block being 7000rpm, manifolding,camshaft,cylinderhead,and headers play into this far more then you think. vettenutjim. your best bet for the money is to call world products or bill mitchell hardcore racing products and just buy a complete short block. then get some good heads.while the world offerings are decent no amount of porting will put them over 300cfm.

Rockin-Iroc

If you do order a crate shortblock, check it over carefully and make sure it comes with a warrantee. I had trouble with a 427 crate shortblock from Speedomotive. It checked out middle-of-the-road with plastigage on all the bearings, but it had a sliver of wood shoved up into the oil galley which contributed to oil starvation of the bearings. 300 miles later, I'm rebuilding my 427. They did work with me on replacement parts, but the fact is, it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Yes, Brodix Track 1 heads are excellent right out of the box. I understand Trick Flow is also excellent. If you want the best value for the money, look into a pair of GM Vortec heads. They are extremely good, but they're iron and require a special intake, plus you have to have the valve seats machined for bigger valves if you want higher than 0.450" lift.

funstick

i dont think vortec heads and or anythign from trick flow can get close to the brodix track 1. im sure if somebody spent some serious time tweaking them it might get close to the out of the box flow of the brodix. i know a guy with a fully tweaked set of fastburns ( vortec in aluminum with a raised port ) and they are straining to get just 280 cfm at 750 lift.

but if your building a 427ci motor youll need a 280cfm just to make 5500rpm.

Rockin-Iroc

My 427 is a big block, not a small block. Sorry for the confusion. It has large oval port heads bowl blended and clearanced for 2.30/1.88 valves as well as unshrouding. It had no problem pulling to 7000 rpm with the cam I had in it. Flow bench testing at 25" H2O pressure drop using a Superflow 600 was 272.9 cfm @0.600" & 0.700" lift on the intake and 208.2 cfm @ 0.700" lift for the exhaust.

I feel 280 cfm to get 5500 rpm is a little off the mark.

funstick

hmm stock oval ports arent very good heads. lots of issues with the short side turn on a bigblock. yeah you can rev it to 7000rpm but i doubt your making any type of good power out there. as for small block heads yeah 280cfm would be hard pressed to make any good power past 5500 rpm. but again the intake manifold and camshaft timming can factor into that as well.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Sure glad I did'nt read this before I bought my AFR's, I'm a measily sbc and my heads only flowed 280.8 @ .700 So what do I gotta change to make power past 5500 being how I'm above 5500 the entire way down the 1/4mi. after I let go of the button?? Think I could run alot faster with bigger heads then??

Also nice to find out Oval port BBC heads are no good either, tell that to all the guys running low 10's to high 9's in 3600- 4000lb cars, I'm sure they'd be really happy to know rectangle heads are supposedly the shizzle.

I'm definately up for this enlightening thread.

Rockin-Iroc

That isn't true guys. Oval port heads, if you use the right castings and prep them right, are significantly more powerful than rectangle heads up to 7000 rpm. There was a test done comparing oval ports to rectangle ports on a 454 by Hotrod magazine. All other things being equal, the rectangle ports never came close to the oval port heads in torque or horsepower anywhere on the rpm band. The only time the rectangle port heads displayed superiority is when they installed a huge drag race cam and spun the motor harder. Then above 7000 they did a little better.

The rule of bigger isn't better applies here. What I was trying to demonstrate is that it isn't as important to use the largest cfm heads as it is to get the quality of the flow, meaning velocity and swirl. This is what makes the oval port heads more powerful (with the right bowl blending and large valves) and is also what makes the GM Vortech heads so powerful.

How can you be such desktop experts unless you've owned a big block? Desktop dynos are NOT that accurate, they just give you an idea.

ljnowell

I believe that is what everyone is saying, with the exception of the one poster above.

funstick

as for your SBC im talking about 427ci small chevys. AFR 280cc heads will make around 550 hp depending on the actuall size of the engine that power curve could be anywhere from 5500-7000rpm. you got a 383 or something ?


im not really sure where this idea that stock oval ports make these great power numbers comes from. the design of the port itself actually leads to airflow stalling. also it has a bad short side turn and will stall on any cam over 550 lift you can see this with a velocity meter on any decent flow bench. with proper porting you can strecth an oval port into the 640's but it takes expert porting.

now if your talking about castings like those from edlebrock etc with port work most of those castings with a 245-255cc runner will flow into the 400's with no trouble with minor porting . in a 4000lb car you can easily make power well into the 7000rpm range on a 427/454 no problem. but again your comparing apples to oranges. and when did bigblock's become large displacement SBC ???? the number of heads out there that can make truly impressive power in a 23* design is pretty damn small. if you get into heads that 18* sb2 etc etc etc then yeah you can do it. but good luck manifolding it getting headers etc.


but if your talking stock castings best of luck to you.

funstick

well rectanlge port heads can make just as much low end and make more high end power with proper manifolding. it depends on the dsplcaement of the engine. the size of the engine can have a dramatic effect on velocity on the port becuase during the downstorke the pistons affect vacum on the valves. the large the engine the larger the vacum the better the drawdown the better the filling the more power you make. its really a pretty simple equation. and again when did we start talking about bigblocks ?i have been talking about small blocks only read the title of this thread. big inch small block gurus. ive built alot of 400+ ci small blocks.

funstick

well 25ins hg is alot different then 28inch hg and would most likely = about 20cfm on a port that size.

280cfm on a long arm 427 small block with a 4.125 bore shrouding the backside of the intake valve will behave in a vastly different manner then an unshourded 280cfm on a 4.250 bore with a 2.125 valve. the better shot at the valve. the 15* inclination will all aid in real world filling. but in small block 23* land with a small bore youd be hard pressed to get a 280cfm head to make power in a long arm small bore SBC past 5500rpm. at least making good power.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Guess my shot at low 10's on the 421 or 434 just aint gonna happen then?? Darn it, wish I had somebody to lay down a large sum of money on that wager. Oh well, literally thoushands of back yard racers squeaking out every bit of practical hp from their combo's should really be linked up to this thread, might really make them feel good knowing how much power they're making with a junk 23* headed combination on sbc stuff and especially all the oval port BBC guys that run circles around the rectangle port wannabe's Talk all you want about why "technically" stuff should work and why it should'nt, I'll stick to the real world where I run with guys proving everything you've been spouting thus far wrong. Would be like a cam designer that nevered built or raced a car telling sombody-"based on these figures that wont work".

For any matter the sb2.2 stuff is high winding and needs to flow the numbers they flow in the 440cfm range since they were designed for long run WOT application. These motors are complete dogs at lower rpm. Finding the parts to build one is only about a $3500 check away for a complete used top end. But those motors are in no way remotely practical for anything other going in circles.

Where in the world are you coming up wtih this stuff

Rockin-Iroc

THANK YOU Funstick! Finally someone is talking some sense. To address the criticism, yes my oval ports were PROFESSIONALLY race ported and fully bowl blended, with a LOT of work done on the exhaust ports as well as additional unshrouding around huge valves.

My heads were tested at 25 inches of water, and the heads you are refering to are probably numbers from 28 inches of water. As I said before, my heads were flowbench tested with a Superflow model 600.
Here are the numbers:

Intake, 2.300" valve:
(Valve lift/CFM)
0.100/63.9
0.200/132.5
0.300/198.5
0.400/232.8
0.500/261.4
0.600/272.9
0.700/272.9

Exhaust, 1.880" valve:
(Valve lift/CFM)
0.100/52.4
0.200/104.8
0.300/137.1
0.400/169.8
0.500/192.3
0.600/201.9
0.700/208.2

Maximum exhaust flow is 76% of maximum intake flow.
As you can see, my heads keep flowing up to 0.700" lift. I am using a solid roller Crane cam with over 0.600" lift on intake and exhaust. I was using a 246/254 deg @ 0.050" cam but I am backing off to a slightly smaller, torquier 238/246 @ 0.050" cam since I drive this on the street most of the time.

Where did I get the idea that oval port heads are more powerful than rectangle port heads when PROFESSIONALLY ported?
Hot Rod magazine, as well as Ridge Reamers racing machine shop in Arvada, Colorado.
The Corvette is a 1968 and weighes 3220 pounds with half a tank of gas and all fluids, as weighed at Bandemere dragstrip.
The Corvette is EXTREMELY quick and fast, with a top speed of 170 mph, gear limited.

You see, I'm not just an armchair racer. I have this thing called "experience".

(Moderator, sorry this is off-topic. My point was missed and I'm trying to clear up some misunderstandings).

IHI

iTrader: (1)

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy

Forgot I had this. Worth saving to the favorties folder

funstick

ill belive it when i see it. i think your stab at running 9's with a 280cfm head is laughable. there is a wholy other unbelivable option as well and that would be that your engine make more then .75hp per cfm. and wholly smokes mirror man thats truly impressive.

your ignoring basic physics. its take x amount of air to make x amount of power. you simply dont have the supply with a 280cfm head in a 4.125 bore to make those kinds of numbers. your whole lot always forgets about bore shrouding.

recent candiate.441 sbc 308 cfm head a dart 230 cc makes 670 hp and 620 ft lbs of tq on a superflow dyno. in a 3400lb camaro with a 5-7% drivetrain loss that works out to a solid 10.2-9.9 pass at around 145 mph. and it made that power at 6400 rpm.your not gonna get within .5 second being 20-30cfm short per port. but WTF do i know. i only do this for a living.

funstick

now that i see the flow chart that not a bad performing head. wouldnt be suprised that when running on the motor if it actually flowed more air. not really sure that with the cam profile your running your making the power you think you are but hey the last oval port i did with edelbrok RPM performers which flow about the same give of take port efficency this is a BBC 427 a 4.250 bore with a 3.66 stroke only made about 480 ft lbs of Tq and 515 hp on the engine dyno but i did so at about 6700 rpm. so yeah it beliveable you could be making power out there but the curve on that particualr motor was falling off fiarly quickly. that particular camaro has made some very nice high 10.90 pass's this year.running a 3.55 rear gear and a 3500 stall. should have a 4.11 and a 4500stall but street use withstanding its a 69 wieghs around 3150 without the 200lb driver. it is also a street driven car.

funstick

no i think you belive that your head is really gona make more power. my comment when i joined the thread was also that i was willing to offer vettenutjim the number for my brodix dealer cnc porter.

i think people often use the wrong head. does afr have a 220cc port in a SBC 23* head that can flow 335cfm at 650 lift ??? there best cnc ports are quite shy in that port volume. and again why is this some personal attack at you. ??? i didnt say your heads were junk.

if you wanna make some serious power with your big cube small block then its time to think about some serious heads. and without getting into some very specialized SBC hardware running jesel shaft valvetrian, special cams, timming components manifolds headers etc etc etc. the brodix cnc heads i get are about the best ive ever seen.

maybe you should park your ego somewhere else

AFR make a good product but there product has been overhyped alot from my expericnes.

as for the sb2 head being dogs on the street. you should learn the art of tunning,manifold,camshaft selection before spouting your mouth on this. ive built some awefuly rowdy motors that run almost good enough to be dialy drivers.

never mind when we drive 50 miles one way to the track run 9.5-9.8 at 150mph and drive home maybe youll figure it out.

VetNutJim

Hey guys, can't we all just get along?

Seriously a good discussion is where a lot of information can be shared. But let's don't get to personal, please?
We don't want 3rdGen to get like that other place... you know where it's just one big fight over there....the Vette place.

Not to change the subject but is there some good "economical' heads I can get for a 383? Something in the range of 200cc intakes with 2.02 valves? Maybe some Dart or World Product heads that won't cost a couple of extremities?

I'd like to get this done with around $2500 in the short block and less than $1000 in the heads.

Brodix heads are something to lust after, no doubt. But they may be a little on the far side of my budget.

Is Pro Topline still in business? I heard they had folded.
I believe AFR 195's will run around $1500 - $2000, is that correct?

I could go Vortec but none of my fuel injection manifolds will fit them.

TPI won't fit. Converted LT1 won't fit. Any suggestions other than purchasing a 3000 buck Holley fuel injection system?

I REALLY want to use my LT1 manifold on this engine.

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

what cam are/plan on using? if you want economical, id say buy a set of vette l98 heads (413 i think?) and port them

funstick

dude as for brodix track 1 or any of there other heads. i can get you setup for well under $1500. assembled. for a 383 out of the box track 1's would work fine. i would consider using the new holley stealth ram intake for a 1206 gasket as well. fully ported to a 1206 and radiousing the inlets etc etc etc and some runner work ive gotten 490cfm out of each runner. thats plenty of air for any engine.

you know the brodix racelite heads would most likely work really good for your application as well. the 200cc variety

ive seen lots of different heads on a 383. it definately wants a 2.02 or 2.00 valve. that small 4.030 bore will shroud larger valves for sure. i would think about running some of the stuff from trickflow or the edelbrok performer rpm 200cc heads. again youll need a 200cc runner to make any sort of good power.

VetNutJim

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the great advice and insight.


Question:
I know you get what you pay for but what opinions/experience do you guys have on the Iron Eagles?


I have a brand new pair of L98 Vette heads on the way but I'm planning on using them on a 355 I have 'in the oven'.
I'm pretty sure the intake tracts won't be a good thing for a 383 or larger.

I like the look (and PRICE) of the Dart Iron Eagle heads.
They have several models from 180cc to 215cc with an assortment of chamber volumes.

Aluminum heads are nice but the entry ticket just about doubles to run a good set of aluminum heads.

This will be a 100% street driven application running on 91 octane with a static CR of no more than 10.5:1.
Horsepower and torque in the range of 400~425 will be an adequate goal for the purpose.

The Stealth Ram intake looks great, BUT.... it won't fit under a Corvette hood.
Stealth Ram would be ok on my truck BUT... on a truck I want a lower RPM 'torky' engine and I've got that now with the 355 and TPI intake.

BTW:


Any of you Georgia guys use Dover Cylinder Head in Atlanta?


I'm taking a set of old L98 aluminum cylinder heads there next week to have then freshened up.
Any good or bad experience with these folks any of you can pass along?

Thanks again everyone for all the great advice.
Keep it coming guys,a good discussion is a healthy thing.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Your on a roll, I think your better stick with the DIY Prom threads you've been doing most of your posting at, leave the engine building to the guys that have been there and done that, not just read about it or figured something up on an equation.

Just cause your in the back of the machine shop sweeping up shavings off the floor does'nt mean you know to put together a well performing combination. Again, stick with the computer forums.

VetNutJim

Come on guys, be nice.

Everybody has experience others don't have.
There's no need to sling these insults at each other.
Each of you is an expert in your own right at something.

I guess this was what the track was invented for?

Let's not fight now, ok?? We're all interested in making engines run so we're brothers sort of. . . . I'm sure if we all met in person
we would treat each other with respect.

funstick

Ill leave this for another time.

if a large vavle worked so good in a 3.98-4.030 bore then the new ls1 heads would be wearing a valve bigger then a 2.00

Rockin-Iroc

Good point Vetnutjim.

Funstick, you are probably right about the power. I'm not actually dyno tested, those power numbers are merely dyno2000 sealevel estimates. But having the solid roller cam boosts the power numbers some too.

The Vette is actually geared tall for top end with the 3.36. Although steeper gears would help it on the street and make it a respectable weekend drag racer, the taller gears are there because it's actually being set up to race at an average 140 mph at the Silver State Classic and Pony Express 100 in Nevada. I could do 140 with 3.70 gears, but spinning the motor that tight for over 90 miles in the desert seems like a recipe for disaster to me. When I retire it from open road racing, I'll upgrade the gearing for quicker low speed performance.

Concerning the person considering the stroker 400 sbc-based engines, built right I see no reason why you wouldn't have a very quick and fast street/strip F-body. My only concern is emissions testing. I know I couldn't put a big enough cam in my 400 if I wanted to drop it into my IROC, and still hope to pass any smog test. So I'll roots blower it with a 6-71 and drop it in my '52 truck instead.
For the F-body the 400 based motor is being dropped in, are you going to have problems with your local smog *****?