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Originally posted by dennisbernal91z Just interested in what pipes you plan to run on that TA. I need to design my exhaust for my 500 HP 91 camaro and need ideas badly. The new motor gets to my house this week and I would love to fire it up soon after. THX
Thats undecided as of yet, but since I'm running twin turbos on it it will be likely be dual 4", going into bullet mufflers with turndowns ahead of the rear axle. The 85, which will be built NA initially, will be getting dual 3". I realize both will likely require some floorpan surgery (the 87 more so than the 85), but I have no problem making the floorpan fit the exhaust...it'll be a necessity, esp with the 87, which will be lowered considerably.
__________________ 1981 Corvette LSX/T56 Project
1987 Trans Am
1985 Trans Am
1997 Camaro SS #359 383 LT1 - Sold 8/12/09
Originally posted by Streetiron85 You would leave the entire LT1 or miniram intake intact.
You could grind or machine away the underside of the TPI plenum for clearance over the smaller intake...
Like I said, it's just some nutty idea I came up with.
It's non-tech, just some cosmetic underhood thing to make people think your car is slow.
Try it... find out... and post if you get it figured out. I won't charge you any money for the idea.
I'm a garb guy anyhow... leave me alone.
In most "its slow if its not an LS1 4th gen" circles, driving a third gen is enough to make them think its slow.
Originally posted by MrDude_1 very true.. well, except for my inner circle.. they know its the same car as the 4thgen... same drivetrain... but lighter.. lol.
but if you think about it.
in mustang circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in corvette circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in viper circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in supra circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in Honda circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in Hemi circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in RX7 circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in DSM circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in typhoon/syclone circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in "insert forgotten car here" circles, 3rdgens are slow.
and in in 3rdgen circles, stock 3rdgens are slow....... because from the factory, they ARE slow.
and don't forget in the honda circles "the honda always wins against the thirdgen. even if the honda loses it still wins the thirdgen"
Originally posted by MrDude_1 very true.. well, except for my inner circle.. they know its the same car as the 4thgen... same drivetrain... but lighter.. lol.
but if you think about it.
in mustang circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in corvette circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in viper circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in supra circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in Honda circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in Hemi circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in RX7 circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in DSM circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in typhoon/syclone circles, 3rdgens are slow.
in "insert forgotten car here" circles, 3rdgens are slow.
and in in 3rdgen circles, stock 3rdgens are slow....... because from the factory, they ARE slow.
Cars should be judged based on their place in time. In the mid 80s it spanked all of the above in handling, and most of the above in off-the-line speed. It was also arguable decades ahead of rest in styling.
You can say what you want, but if you buy a so-called performance car 20 plus years after another performance car and you can't blow his door completely off you better send it back. I am just humored that the ricers want to race my car. I will wait 20 years to see how their car aged!
__________________ 83 Z28, Dark Blue Metalic, LG4, THM700R4, Stock Fiberglass Hood, 98% stock. Factory dual snorkel, Tuned Q-jet, DR rods, B Hanger, 1/2" Phenolic Spacer, TDS Wonder Bar, Dynomax Super Turbo Catback w/ Catco cat, 114K+
Originally posted by phess11 Cars should be judged based on their place in time. In the mid 80s it spanked all of the above in handling, and most of the above in off-the-line speed. It was also arguable decades ahead of rest in styling.
You can say what you want, but if you buy a so-called performance car 20 plus years after another performance car and you can't blow his door completely off you better send it back. I am just humored that the ricers want to race my car. I will wait 20 years to see how their car aged!
I don't think it spanked all of the above in the 80's
and in the early 90's when the thirdgen was still being produced I'm very sure it didn't spank all of the above
Well, back to the sleeper subject. Since reading this thread, I have decided to get the "sleeper" exhaust system much like Mr. Dude was reffering to. A stock-ish system with a cut-out befor the muffler. With efi you can tune a huge cam to sound small to stock. My 355 LT-4 hot cam sounded stock after tuning it. Run a T-56 with tall gears out back and it can be a real sleeper.
as far as the exhaust on thesleeper goes, I have the edelbrock rpm 3'' catback on my (otherwise stock) RS, and i wouldn't have it any other way. It is like the perfect combo of a nice deep tone at idle and crusing, and it roars like a b***h at wot... if i had a microphone or a video camera, id put up some clips... anyone in southern cali wanna help me out with that? I used to have a flowmaster 80, but took that off and sold it for the rpm... let me tell ya, id never go back...
back on topic...
a good,true sleeper is a true thingof beauty... but to be a sleeper it doesnt have to have perfectly silent exhaust. I think a sleeper can still have a little of a rumble comming from if, just not a cutout or those types of things.
and as far as what someonewas saying earlier (i couldnt find the post) about putting the bullet on the honda... my bro has a wrx and an old glasspack from his crown vic he used to have and bolted it to the wrx... it sounded almost identical to the borla hush system that he has on it now, maybe slightly louder... so bullets on an import isnt entirly unheard of....
Originally posted by Imadude_134 and as far as what someonewas saying earlier (i couldnt find the post) about putting the bullet on the honda... my bro has a wrx and an old glasspack from his crown vic he used to have and bolted it to the wrx... it sounded almost identical to the borla hush system that he has on it now, maybe slightly louder... so bullets on an import isnt entirly unheard of....
Just my 2 cents...
-Tim-
most mufflers that seem to go on imports are a straight through I guess what you would call a bullet design.
sure there are a few that are chambered design or something like that but most seem to be of a straight through design with either a perforated core or of the crappy ones you get a louvered core
Not the fastest thing on 4 wheels, but it's always underestimated. It has just enuf exhaust note at idle to make those with an experienced ear do a double take.
My bro was all about the sleeper look. he bought an 84 camaro Sport Coupe V6 and a few years later we found a wrecked 88 IROCZ 350 and proceeded to transplant every mechanical feature over to his SC.
His car didn't look too aggresive but putting the right foot down sure showed a few people it's IROC soul.
The only tip off to something other than stock was the IROC rims and throaty rumble at idle.
Originally posted by V8Astro Captain Not the fastest thing on 4 wheels, but it's always underestimated. It has just enuf exhaust note at idle to make those with an experienced ear do a double take.
Man! I can just hear the "import car owners" (can't use the R word) say: "You got spanked by a MINIVAN!!!"
We should take up a collection for some HI-PO parts for that thing. Even if it's just part third-gen... definitely a sleeper!!!
*announcer voice*
~and now, GMC Safari... on the Dyno~
Originally posted by Supervisor42 Man! I can just hear the "import car owners" (can't use the R word) say: "You got spanked by a MINIVAN!!!"
We should take up a collection for some HI-PO parts for that thing. Even if it's just part third-gen... definitely a sleeper!!!
*announcer voice*
~and now, GMC Safari... on the Dyno~
One of my friend's dad several years ago put a 350 in his Astro van. It wasn't tune port though. I think it was TBI.
Those crazy vans are allways fun to see. Can;t say I would spend the $ to do it, but def fun to see. There is a guy around here that has a Arero coupe that is converted to RWD and has a 350 TPI. Also it has Weld star draglight rims. (I thnk that what they are called). Very quiet but FAST. Guy is super nice, anyone in the Boston area should go see it. I will get pics someday.
I love the sleeper look. I tried to get a "sleeper" sound with my Ramjet 350. It's only at around 350hp/400 ft lbs. The motor still actaully has PLENTY of potential for bigger numbers. I even bought Spintech muffler with my Mufflex system, since Flowmaster is known to be louder. I even bought the dual tailpipe system, since I was told from Mufflex it's a little quiter than the single. I am also running a cat. converter too. Guess what? The f@$ing thing is still loud!!! At idle, it's not too bad, but to most gear heads, you know that it's got something. Anyways, I keep the entire exterior of the car all stock looking. Still a sleeper in my book. You can't tell from the outside that it has hit 12s in the quarter, can you?? Noise doesn't always mean it's fast too. I heard a stock 305 RS with headers back exhaust. it was loud!
Last edited by Camaro_nut; 12-17-2005 at 03:50 PM.
Yep, I love the sleeper thing myself. Mine is total stock on the outside and inside the car. Regarding the exhaust I run the Mufflex 3.5 inch system with the new 3.5" Magnaflow 12909 muffler. I'm surprised as to how quiet it is. Virtually like stock until you mash on the throttle.
It has the single 3.5" exhaust for both performance and easier to hide. It is tucked up and not noticeable unless you are really looking for it.
__________________ Best of 11.57 and 115.73 mph(1811DA). Motor: Dart SHP block 368ci, AFR Comp 195cc heads, 11.1:1 comp, highly modified TPI 1st style SLP runners, moded GM plenum and First Injection TPI intake manifold, Mike Jones 3/4 race cam, Yank PT4000 converter, Dyno Don 1 3/4" shorty headers, Dyno Don custom exhaust, custom cold air intake, AS&M monoblade throttle body. Meziere electric water pump. Mufflex 3.5" exhaust catback. Magnaflow 3.5" muffler#12909. Kevin91Z Tune. 4L60E installed. Now 420RWHP, 417RWTQ with new motor.
I love sleepers. My car appears 100% stock, just aftermarket rims and exhaust. I don't really think a nice sounding car ruins the image, my old exhaust I had on my 305 was much louder then the one on my 355. Around here, anything even remotely performance orientated has a exhaust system on it.
Originally posted by Chevmdnss All of my friends know me as the 'sleeper' guy. I can't stand a loud exhaust!
My buddy came by the shop the other day and pointed out to a 95 Impala SS and pointed to the headers........and said........
This is right up your alley isn't it?? Sleeper for sure.
I am all about the
I love that van...... always wanted to do that swap.
Although I did play the role reversed for a while......
This little thing sounded just like a cammed small block at an idle..........as long as I didn't pop the hood
where did he get the webber from?
I have been trying to find one for a while and couldn't so had to settle for the holly equiv with the 5200. or is that the holley version of the DGV / DFV series
Originally posted by 1989GTATransAm Yep, I love the sleeper thing myself. Mine is total stock on the outside and inside the car. Regarding the exhaust I run the Mufflex 3.5 inch system with the new 3.5" Magnaflow 12909 muffler. I'm surprised as to how quiet it is. Virtually like stock until you mash on the throttle.
It has the single 3.5" exhaust for both performance and easier to hide. It is tucked up and not noticeable unless you are really looking for it.
wow, hard to injest alot of the dribble! I personally like to hear the cam in my engines, plus being hi compression its nice to know if the tune is correct! Sleepers Live. Never been pulled over for having a quieter car yet!
Crazy bump but 6 years later I'd say sleepers are still alive (at least in the turbo scene... a car can sound stock at low RPMs and idle smooth but still turn 11 second 1/4s).
Personally I think if you build a stout motor it should sound stout. If you don't feel the thump of the cam in the pavement you're doing it wrong.
Theres one on this board that has some boost and runs 9s. Should it be quiet thats a sleeper.
A 2 ton mid 70s Impala with some serious oats under it and a whisper quiet exhaust-sleeper
Cars that look fast could be sleepers I suppose but the best are cars noone would really look at twice unless its a view of its tailights.
You wont hear a sleeper really at a stop light or even moderately getting on it.
Plain jane steel wheels, plain paint no gauges hanging, hood scoops, nada.
Check out Youtube for some ideas.
A sportscar such as an IROC could be made a sleeper but most would expect a V8 you can hear to have some power. Fun part is building an albatross, a butt ugly car that has stupid huge power.
I was told as a youngster when I used to attend street races to watch out for the old grey haired guys that didnt say much...they were right.
They knew how to go fast and take your money. Some would pop the hood, some wouldnt. One I recall had a big block that looked bone stock and crusty down to the Q jet in his wagon. Would yank the wheels up and put most on the trailer it was a gas to witness. THats a sleeper
Used to be a guy called Bottle Bob out in these parts, still around somewhere, Gramps, etc. Those guys would bring their 10 sec bombs and clean up, youd never guess what they were running, couldnt really hear much. Lots of fun.
Reminds me of my old man's stories...
He talked about it in NYC right on the highway late at night; guys would roll up and block off the road and 2 cars would line up. I loved two stories; one was a sleeper and one wasn't.
Two old guys used to trailer in (I believe) a Malibu that said "Mom's Nightmare" on the side and it sounded like it deserved the name. He'd come around once in a blue moon and beat anybody he raced.
The other was a turbo buick, he loved to pop his hood and show off his "stock" ride...
__________________ "As I lay rubber down to street, I pray for traction I can keep but if I spin and begin to slide, please dear god... protect my ride!"
THe Mustang on there reminds me of an 85 GT I had. It was stock restored inside/out. Quiet full exhaust, 460/C6/4.10 combo on a 100 shot. Lots of fun. I have some polaroids of it (no digicams back then), Ill have to get my scanner hooked up and post them. Unless you really knew Fords you couldnt tell what you were looking at when the hood was popped. THat thing was a handful on the street
Best sleepers are some beat up 4 doors, look up Calculated Risk on Chevelles.com 67 4 door, primered beat up with a boosted 6.0 Lsx runs 9s or 10s, have to go back and look. Car is not pretty inside/out but man does it move.
Heres how they used to do it back in the day. This car belonged to a friend of mine who was posting under my name, lots of history here, neat story. Little off topic but interesting nonetheless. Used 4 caddy mufflers on it. Back then 10s was hauling the mail
I doubt the sleeper will ever die. I own a 1990 Firebird V6 and seriously been thinking about keeping the exterior exactly as GM made it. Stock Finned 15 in wheels and even continuing the gag with keeping brake drums in the back to fool the rest. I plan to build up a 383 to blow the doors off some Mustangs
