West Coast GTA Man

Hey Guys, I just removed my smog pump, and all other smog related parts and ever since I did this my car seems to be a little "Cold Blooded" when I start it when it is cold. It almost dies on me until I rev it once. After this it runs perfect. it never used to do this. I rechecked all my work, and cannot find anything disconnected such as vacuum lines etc. Why would this be?? Is this normal and something to be expected when you remove the smog parts?
Thanks
Mike

------------------
Check out My Car Pics http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...667&a=13599419

Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs; Removed Smog Pump and all other Smog related parts.

88305tpiT/A

iTrader: (2)

Man you are like the 4th person that has said that their car has idling problems now that you did something with the smog stuff or the throttle body bypass or changed heads. I have done all of these things and have changed the CTS, and plan to clean the IAC and the intake temp sensor soon also.

I would think that removing the smog stuff would not effect your idle but then again maybe the cold start is involved with the air pump connections somehow. I would try to reset you min idle and then clean out the IAC. If those dont work try the Coolant temp sensor right on the right front of the intake base. that seems to be a common suggestion with your problem.

Vader

And you removed your Air Injection system because.....?

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
Adobe Acrobat Reader

West Coast GTA Man

Hey guys, I already changed my CTS sensor, I think I will change my IAC valve also just for the heck of it, because it isn't that much money. Vader, I removed the smog equipment because we do not have emission tests in Florida here, and I really wanted to clean up the engine bay. I did not do it to gain any horsepower. I already had the cat eliminated so I figured I might as well eliminate the rest of the emission components. Come to think of it, the car does seem to Idle a slight bit rougher, but it still runs great. I am more concerned about the cold start and knowing why it does this. Was this a bad move to remove this stuff?? thanks
Mike

------------------
Check out My Car Pics http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...667&a=13599419

Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs; Removed Smog Pump and all other Smog related parts.

Vader

GTA,

The lack or an AIR pump shouldn't affect performance at all. You may notice it takes a bit longer to acheive closed-loop mode because the O2 sensor doesn't get warm quite as fast, but that should be the only real difference.

One thing you need to be cautious about is getting a good seal at the air injection pipes. Any leakage into the left exhaust manifold will make the O2 go falsely lean, and will fool the ECM into a rich condition. Typically a slightly rich condition won't cause a misfire. The mixture has to get pretty rich for that to occur.

Instead of replacing the IAC, try cleaning it, and the IAC air passages in the TB at the same time. A new IAC won't help much in a dirty TB.

I understand from your original post that you removed the A.I.R. system and "all other smog related parts". Exactly what other parts did you remove?

breathment

cough.. cough... my lungs. cough.. cough


------------------
- David
88' GTA 5.7L TPI MODS---> air foil, K&N, Shift Kit, 180* therm, TB bypass, Gutted CAT, Flowmaster 80 Series

http://www.geocities.com/david_angel_16

West Coast GTA Man

Hey Vader, I removed the smog pump, the tubes that go to exhaust manifolds, the black box that the the tube from the pump goes to and that the electrical connections go to and thats it. I made sure I didn't disconnect any Vac lines by accident. I checked to make sure I didn't have any leaks where I plugged up the exhaust manifolds (Where the tubes were) I used bubbly soap, and have no leaks. I am definitely going to clean the IAC, and the passages instead of replacing it. It sure makes sense to do that like you said instead of just buying one. I don't know what else it could be. Maybe it is just like you said about the "Closed Loop". Any other suggestions, or should I just not even worry about it. I am just so damn neurotic about my car. And LOL @ Breathment
Later
Mike

------------------
Check out My Car Pics http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...667&a=13599419

Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs; Removed Smog Pump and all other Smog related parts.

West Coast GTA Man

Hey Vader, or anyone, well today was the first cooler day in florida since I have removed my smog pump & the rest of my emission controls, and the car was WORSE starting when the car was cold. It stalled on me once, and I re-started it, and it almost died again. My car never did this before the removal. But today was worse than when I originally posted this problem. I then started the car at work about 2pm and the same thing, It almst died on me, and the RPM's went up & down, up & down for a while (Fluctuating). My car used to do this before, a little but not nearly as bad, and it never wanted to stall. Like I said, when it is warmed up a little it runs great. Also when the car is cold I here a hissing sound that sounds like a bad vacuum leak coming from what seems to be from the manifold like near the EGR but I see no lines unhooked or leaking and when the motor warms a little I don't hear it anymore. I am going to clean out the throtte body, the IAC valve, and change the Coolant Temp Sensor again. Maybe the new one I got crapped out on me. Any other suggestions?? Could it be a bad TPS sensor?? Are there any other sensors that could cause the problem, that I can change?? I can't imagine that removing the smog equipment is causing this. Nobody else that removed their smog stuff seems to have this prob. Maybe it is just a coincidence that I removed all the smog stuff, and I have another prob. Im Sorry to be long winded and a pain in the ****, but this is pissing me off and I know if I explain myself in detail, someone might relate to my prob. I am used to this car being perfect, and if it isn't I want to do what it takes to make it run that way. Thank you guys!
Mike

------------------
Check out My Car Pics http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...667&a=13599419

Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs; Removed Smog Pump and all other Smog related parts.

Vader

GTA,

If you study the VECI label on the underside of the hood, you'll see that there are a couple of vacuum hoses routed to the diverter valve for the A.I.R. system (the "Black Box" you removed). Having a couple of vacuum lines loose can certainly ruin your idle.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
Adobe Acrobat Reader

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I had the same problem. I replaced the maf. I wasnt getting any codes or anything but I said hmm I bought one at autozone waited till morning when it was cold slapped the new one in. Fired right up.

88305tpiT/A

iTrader: (2)

no, no man dont worry I have exactly the same problem and Ill level with ya -- I havent found the cure either.
I removed all my smog stuff here in FLA too and then it started doing the stalling thing.

HOWEVER!
I think I may know what is going on and I will test it when I get a chance. I think that by removing the smog equipment the exhaust and egr recirculation is much dirtyer than it was with the AIR stuff on. consequently the IAC and egr passages get much dirtier much faster than they used to. I think this is true because I had this problem right after I removed the stuff and then I just sprayed some FI cleaner right into the IAC hole in the TB when the car was running. well immediately the idle shot up and stayed there and I didnt have a problem until this year (0ne year later) and now it does the same thing you are describing again.

so I will clean the IAC good this time and let you know what shakes loose. I think this may be it though so cross your fingers and pray you dont need an MAF like the guy above me said.



------------------
88 WS6 T/A 305 TPI--
K&N,Air foil,hypertech chip, thermostat+fanswitch
free mods, dynomax catback, urethane motor+trans mounts, PST front end poly stuff, Earl's hyperflex brake lines SSM SFCs, Bilsteins very trick homemade ramair, Accel 300+ ignition system. Ported plenum, intake and heads with 1.94I valves.
Planning: Heddman 1-5/8 longtubes, NOS 150 plate, replace the "peanut"! and Eibach Sportlines.
check it out at:
http://www.geocities.com/transam617

West Coast GTA Man

Thanks everyone!! Now I have a few options on what to do. First I will check out the vacuum diagram on my car, and then try cleaning the IAC & passage out, if those fail, I will try a MAF. If that fails, I will try my coolant temp sensor again, and maybe my TPS. If that doesn't do it, I guess I will live with a "Cold Blooded In The Morning GTA" I'll be damned if I am gonna put the smog parts back in and re- clutter the engine bay. I would be really pissed if the car ran bad when warm, but thats not the case.
Thanks again EVERYONE for your help! This truly is a great group of thirdgen friends.
Later
Mike

------------------
Check out My Car Pics http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...667&a=13599419

Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs; Removed Smog Pump and all other Smog related parts.

camaro6spd

see.....if you don't care to gain hp by it then why add polution to the air? I have no problems with mine, even if I could remove it I wouldn't.

but to each his own.

1BadGTA

Hey I wanted to pull my cat off and put a pipe in it's place. I've heard the HP gains you get in return will make you wish you did it sooner. So my question is, what size (length/diameter) pipe should I get??

Thanks,
Chris

West Coast GTA Man

Hey 6speed, I chose to remove my smog equipment to un-clutter the engine bay to make it easier to work on the car. And there are no emissions in Florida where I live. I feel there are alot more things out there causing pollution far worse than our cars without emissions. Just look at all the cars out there that were made prior to emissions. In my opinion, I really don't think it makes that much more "Polutants" in the air. Like you said, to each his own. Hey chris, I removed my cat, and I am not sure exactly what size piece of pipe the guy welded in for me to replace the cat. He put that piece in and then the full exhaust pipe out the back int to the muffler. the rest of the pipe I had put in was 3 inch, so maybe the piece for the cat was three inch also. it looks exactly the same size as the rest. Hope this helped you a little.
take care
Mike


------------------
Check out My Car Pics http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...667&a=13599419

Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs; Removed Smog Pump and all other Smog related parts.

West Coast GTA Man

UPDATE:::::
This morning was the coldest morning yet since I removed my smog parts. I went out and started the car and it ran fine, just like it did before! Then when I left work at 4:30 PM it was fine again! So everything is normal again. I have no idea why it was acting up and now it is fine, but I am not going to complain. Very strange though. The only thing I can think of is that I added some Gumout Xtra Fuel injector cleaner to the gas tank at about the same time that I removed the smog stuff, maybe that screwed me up somehow. Because yesterday I filled the tank at night, and when I started the car this morning it was fine. The real strange thing is that when it was running bad when it was cold, it ran fine after it warmed up. If it was gas, or the injector cleaner, it should run poor all the time. Ohh well it is fine now. Thanks all for the help!
Mike

------------------
Check out My Car Pics http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...667&a=13599419

Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs; Removed Smog Pump and all other Smog related parts.

Vader

GTA,

Actually, wet fuel can cause problems when starting and cold, but run pretty normally aafter the engine is warmed. Since the O2 sensor won't recognize the water in the exhaust as affecting the oxygen content (just like atmospheeric water vapor or humidity) the ECM will add whateever fuel is necessary to satisfy the O2 as soon as the engine reaches closed-loop mode.

You may have had a crappy load of fuel.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
Adobe Acrobat Reader

West Coast GTA Man

Hey Vader, thanks man, that makes sense. I probably had bad fuel because I fueled up the night before I removed the smog parts. Man I need your brain when it comes to diagnosing these cars!! Thanks again man!
Mike

------------------
Check out My Car Pics http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...667&a=13599419

Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs; Removed Smog Pump and all other Smog related parts.