Beachhead

So here is my delima, first is trying to find the car i want, which i havnt done yet. I've looked at an 82 with the crossfire 305, and thought it ran pretty smooth. But my dad, who has worked at GM and Ford dealers as a parts guy for the better part of his life, absolutely hates the carburated and crossfire engines of the 80s. My question is, as users out there in the field, which engine seems to be the most reliable, how do the carburated, crossfire, tuned port injection, engines, hold up, and which one is the best? Thanks.

novadk13

my old man work as a gm tech for 29 years and when I got my LO3 (tbi) he said one of the more reliable engine GM has built, and told the guy at least its a tbi. But on the other hand prob isnt one of the best for performance, being my first nice looking car I didnt care what it had and now I know.

84z28350

From every TBI engine i have seen they seem to take a beating and just keep kicking. their not the best performance wise or great gas mileage but they dont seem to die very easily.

Carbed engines in my opinion are sloppy beasts and seem to last just as long. MPFI is something i thing you would want to stay away from for reliability issues.

If its a chev itll hold up! this isnt a mustang board ya know

Beachhead

Hey, i'm not here to argue ford vs chevy, i respect both equally, same with chrysler. Its an American car, and thats good enough for me. I just would like to know which is the most reliable engine.

Crusin' 1980's

I was under the impression that chrysler has gone down hill and is defintiley not on the same level as chevy...what do other people think about chrysler?

84L69TA

"MOPAR OR NO CAR!!"

novadk13

for some reason people keep buyin the crap, not sure why I guess their marketing team is doing thier jobs.

Toehead

mopar transmissions are horrible.

Beachhead

Seriously though... most reliable 3rd gen V8... anyone?

Epro

There is a thread where everyone said how much was on their cars odometer.

To tell the truth, I wouldn't ask on an internet forum. This site for the most part has smart, intelligent people. There might people that just make things up so they sound like they know what they're talking about.

I've never had that experience here, just over at the Corvette Forum.

84L69TA

LOL! Yeah, ok. What ya got to base that on? How bout those T5's, TH200C's, and 700R4's? Real winners there.

Epro

Who comes up with these stereotypes?

-All domestic vehicles are unreliable and are poorly built
-Hondas never die!
-All F-body owners have ******s and live in trailers

I once read a post where people were bashing the new Impala... One guy said that he "drove one" and it handled horribly, was an unsmooth ride, and was very uncomfortable. My Impala is grossly underpowered, but it has to be the smoothest car I've driven (I'm 16, I've only driven about 5 or 6 cars)

For this reason, I NEVER take advice from people on the internet about cars, unless they have some educational background.

I'm not knocking you Toehead, I'm just as guilty as to make stereotypes. Except I make mine against Honda owners...


EDIT: Did they seriously add the M-word to the banned words list?

sasser43

Not really a stereotype, well maybe for mopar in general, but jeep transmissions are horrible. Mine has already been rebuilt twice. And no its not just mine, there was a whole law suite thing out because they were so bad and kept breaking down.

novadk13

buddy I work with had a dakota pickup that was on its 3rd tranny in 90,000 miles

shaggy56

Wow my 94 4.0 HO Jeep Wrangler is till running strong with 160,000 miles on it. Its been good to me so far and still all original except maybe exhaust.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

This thread has no direction at all.


Most reliable? TPI. No messing with, just fan and fun.
Hard to find, but expensive though.

Carbed: more things break more often, but the parts are cheaper and easier to do on your own.. (you only need a screwdriver, not a $400 scanning tool...)


How's that for sterotyping.

seriously, i'd be more worried about how the car was treated before you, ie. who owned it, and if they kept maintenance records, how the fluids look, how the car sounds etc..

84z28350

Their seems to be alot of problems with the new hemi's up here, im not sure if its just the climate or what.

My Mom has a 93 jeep with the 4L HO I6, It knocks like hell and burns more gas than my camaro but its still running strong.

Looks like this turned into a chrystler/dodge/jeep thread now



Im going to have to stick with a carb being the best for reliability.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

oh yea, carbs just sound so much cooler too.
You can see a new-ish mustang with flowmasters, and it sounds pretty nice. (don't see much 4th gens around, but beefed up new mustangs you do so...), then see an old muscle car, rumbling along, gurgling... It's just so much better

84z28350

Gotta love the sound of a slobbery SBC with a huge cam in it!

Derek The Great

im going to have to give props to the LO3... from the experiences i have had with my car it is one hel of a good motor. only problem it has is it chugs the oil on start up sometimes due to valve guides but thats nothin im worried about. aside from that none of the electrical compents of the engine have failed. the car itself has went through a couple of alternators but that doest have anything to do with the mechanical integrity of the motor.

L03 all the way!
(exept for performance...)

Toehead

That came from my mother's minivan going through trannies like gas, my friends dodge truck (newer model) blowing the tranny on the way to work, and my friend mike's jeep whose tranny slips like a ****.

edit- Forgot my friend aimee's sebring blowing a transmission.

edit- I am also not knocking anybody... I just have had bad experiences with mopar transmissions. I'm sure many people don't. I did, and I was just sharing

84z28350

Everything thats ever built has its downfalls, lets not get into a pissing match about what make is better!

roc city f body

There might people that just make things up so they sound like they know what they're talking about.

I've never had that experience here, just over at the Corvette Forum.

firebirdjosh

iTrader: (1)

TPI seems more reliable, tuned from the factory, just drive it. Carbs there is alot more inexpensive parts to break, and worse gas mileage. TBI is sort of like a common ground?

tad1214

My boss likes the quote, " Id rather have a sister in the ***** house than a dodge in the garage!". Back to topic, the crossfires seem to have a knack for having problems. Not to mention they can be a pain in the *** for fixing.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I had my choice of induction setups. For overall Power, MPG, Cost, and Reliability, TBI comes up on top, IMHO. They are simple to work on, simple to modify, get good fuel mileage, have plenty of torque, have cheap parts, etc. You have 2 injectors versus 8, less complex wiring, it is easier to access things like the EGR valve. No easily dented runners!

firebirdjosh

iTrader: (1)

Those runners are definitely not easy to dent, I'm not sure how the hell these people manage to mangle them. Mine are still pristine!

Beachhead

Everyone seems to have their own opinion. The crossfire engines are TBI are they not?

84z28350

IIRC its a just a joe blow TBI with a wacky manifold.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

The main thing is routine maintenance.
Make sure everything is working properly and the motor will last a good while.
My LG4 305 lasted till 150K but blew up after the heads/cam swap due to a software glitch and an unkown oil passage on the front of the block where the smog pump bracket used to be.

My 305TPI in my Formula has about 145K on it and runs very strong and I drive it pretty hard all the time. I put about 35K miles on it in the 2.5 years I've owned it.
Only things that went out on it were the Alternator and heater core.

Mcdamit

I own a TPI, my cousin owns an L03... Alright the TPI is extremely reliable. if and only if you Change the injectors, and rebuild the ignition other than that you should never have a problem. Just remeber TPI cars cost more for insurance. The L03's I have seen have alotta miles on them and still seem to run very well, the TPI cars were beat on very hard because they were the perforamnce version.

In tpi the injectors are know to go bad and the icm and pickups in the distributor gets tired.. So if you are willing to spend about 200 on injectors and maybe a 100 into the ignition, I say go with a TPI that hasn't been beat on.

SaintedCorrupt

if you really want the most reliable thirgen engine, you should get yourself an iron duke. i've heard stories of those things going 350,000+ miles with no engine repairs other than general maintenence. a friend of mine had one for the longest time. we even jury-rigged a nitrous to run straight from the bottle through a spare brake line and in the intake, and that car har 180, 000 miles on it. never seen anything take a beating like we put that motor through, and it never hiccuped.

on the other hand, my dad has an L03 tbi 350 in a work truck thats got 320,000 miles and the only thing was that the RMS blew about 50k ago. $200 fix. overheated it several times, once so bad that the oil viscosity became the consistancy of water and pressure dropped to nil. the things on its third tranny (from heavy towing) and still makes 55 psi oil pressure at idle and pulls like the day it rolled off the lot.

Beachhead

Looking for the most reliable third gen V8 engine, not just the most reliable 3rd gen engine. Not interested in the 4 or 6's.

Vader

You should learn to respect some of what your father has earned in experience through his years. For myself, I'd be looking for a V-8 if for nothing more than the unmatched reliability of the SBC engine overall. I wouldn't necessarily reject a good V-6 car, but might not go looking there first. If I happened to stumble across an Iron Duke model, I would be astounded that it was still running, and sympathetic to the owner, but not so much that I would buy one. I've had a few of those Pontiac fours. At least enough to satisfy me for the rest of my days.

If you simply want to get in, insert the key, and drive, a carburetor probably isn't the best choice. I know that many people have been able to make carbureted engines run very smoothly, cleanly, and reliably for many years (myself included). That's about all that was available for many years, with a few notable exceptions. Regardless, a carbureted engine will likely require some maintenance before an EFI engine. The maintenance is routine, and not difficult, but will be necessary nonetheless. That also isn't meant to imply that EFI engines are maintenance-free, a misconception held by far too many motorists.

For mechanical reliability, they're all on about an equal footing. There is nothing that significantly distinguishes the case and rotating assembly of an L03 from an LB9 or L98 or LG4 or L69. The heads can be different, but not in any way that would affect mechanical reliability. From an overall reliability perspective, the fuel and ignition systems are the primary considerations. GM had the HEI systems just about mastered by the time 1982 rolled around, so that is no major concern either, regardless of engine type. The fuel system is what's left, and what mostly differentiates the engines.

Crossfire was an experiment. It was a transition from carburetion to a long-tube runner EFI system (later called TPI). Unless the car were pristine, I'd probably keep looking.

Even the first TPI engines were an experiment, and were changed after just one year. Other than a very clean, solid '85 TPI, I'd probably keep walking from there, too. The '85 TPI can be dealt with easily enough given a few parts and some labor.

TBI can be very reliable, mostly due to its elegant simplicity. There are about five moving parts in the entire system - Injectors, regulator, IAC, throttles, and TPS. The whole system is run on basically four sensors - MAP, TPS, O², and CTS. The balance of the sysem components takes a minor role by comparison.

TPI can be a bit more complicated, but can be just as reliable. It can make more power, and provide more fuel economy, but can also be a bit more difficult to diagnose and repair. Parts can be more expensive, if parts are ever needed.

I think Zepher is on to something. (That's O.K. - We won't tell your parole officer...)

If I were shopping, I'd be looking for the best overall body, running gear, and signs of maintenance. Even then, I'd plan on performing all the required maintenance for a vehicle of that age and mileage, as if it had never been done. If that particular vehicle happens to have a TPI, all the better. If it is carbureted, I'd deal with it, make it run right, find the rest of the weaknesses of the vehicle, and keep in the back of my mind that eventually the fuel system would change. TBI? I may have to consider running it as-is for a while for evaluation. They're not the worst thing that ever happend to ThirdGens.

Damon

TBI 305s are, in my experience the most reliable. They're fuel injected which means they run well under all conditions if properly maintained. Plus they don't make enough power or rev high enough to hurt themselves.

Most recent example for me: My wife's 92 Camaro RS had the original 305 TBI engine in it with 200K on the odometer and was still running perfectly when I yanked. I've also had trucks with the TBI motor in them that have gone almost 1/4 million miles on the original motor without ever taking the valve covers off.

ploegi

Any car can be reliable if it is maintained well. I have 194000 miles on my 88 TPI 350. Just changed the plugs, and they were all clean, and a nice tan color. The car has been meticulously maintained (mechanicaly anyway....) for its entire life. Previous owner was a Pilot, and they are STICKLERS for maintainence. I had to do valve seals, but, it was an easy, if time consuming job. I have owned this car since 98, and it has abandoned me, however, that was due to low quality parts, and a hidden wire splice that corroded, and decided not to conduct anymore. (a 5 cent fix....)

If you take care of it, it will take care of you. Just be careful that you don't buy someone elses problem child.

Wheel Spin

Good advice, and well put.

Get the TBI or the TPI, I've had both and assure you that you will have fun either way. Learn where all the sensors are and what they do, learn how to R & R the distributor (pickup coil), you will have fun and be proud of your car.

crrllmich

WTF this thread went all over the place...lets make this simple.


L03 305 TBI HANDS DOWN!..... runs forever..cheap to fix....easy to work on.....

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'd have to put my oar in with any LG4 3rd gen (along with the LO3, which I've never had). Similar simplicity, easy to diagnose, responds well to the typical SBC performance modifications, etc.

My '86 had 169k on it when I pulled it this summer for more umphf. It used some oil, but it had 123k with "minimum required" (as far as I can tell) maintenance before I rescued it. The typical oil issue with any Gen I SBC, whether LG4, L69, LB9, LO3, or L98, is valve stem seals. However, they are easy to replace, and the aftermarket will take care of you for something better than the factory used.

I've been driving the car daily since Aug 1999, and it has stopped on me exactly once - I rolled over to the shoulder, opened the hood, jiggled the distributor power wire (which, of course, I had long ago snapped off the little plastic retainer tab), got back in, turned the ignition, and it fired right back up.

91ChevyRS

I'd like to second the TBI, they are by far the most reliable engine chevy has ever produced....I don't have much to brag about yet, my motor has about 111k on the clock now and it hasn't given me any problems.

It is cheap to fix yes, but easy to work on? Yeah if the engine work area wasn't so cluttered, but its nothing no one can handle.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

There are countless 305/350 TBI owners who browse the TBI board with 300K plus miles. The TBI motors were low output roller motors with a caveman simplistic fuel injection system. The injectors are almost indestructable, the tune keeps the proper AF ratio at all times, and most vehicles were paired with gear ratios that kep the RPM's down. We have a 7.4 TBI work truck that has 230k on it and it shows up for work just like everyone else. The only difference is that it doesn't slack

Epro

This actually turned out to be an interesting thread

Camaroz29

iTrader: (3)

Maybe today's. 727 Torqueflites and the 833 4 speeds were great trannies.

crrllmich

Nathan you *** lol...after this topic went off topic so much you just had to talk about mopar again!....

Camaroz29

iTrader: (3)

Couldn't help it.

Toehead

Oh, I wasn't talking about the oldschool mopar engines/transmissions Those were pretty sweet. Where I work, this old guy always stops by and talks about engines and the downfall of mopar hahahah. He drives a 1979 ram

White93z34

iTrader: (1)

my LG4 may be slow, but its relyable as all get out. 166k and still going strong.

rx7speed

I'm a honda owner wanna make a sterotype against me?

Vader

It wouldn't be "against" you. It would only include you. That is, of course, if you didn't own at least one decent car for comparison.

I've got a couple old Schwinns, but I keep them in perspective. I know they are more efficient, just not as much fun.

Anyone that can still make a rotary run well deserves some measure of respect, despite what else he may drive to work. Now, go play with your Wankel...

Beachhead

So... it appears that by majority, the most reliable third gen V8 is the 88-92 TBI 305. The 4-barrel carb runs good if cared for, as well as the TPI. But both are complicated and expensive to fix. It also appears that the crossfire was an experiment and should be avoided? Any more information on the crossfire, was it really so bad?