sc02t

how bout a little contest. i have a problem and i'm going to post it on both sites and see what i get. i have an 89 iroc 350 tpi. friday i went out to start the car and it took forever for it to light. the starter just turned and turned, but finally it fired. drove it across town, stoped at oriellys to get some stuff, went back out to the car and it started perfectly. went to work. went home for lunch, car started fine when i left work and started fine again when i went back to work, and when i went home that night. saturday morning at like 9:30, i went out warm it up, and it wouldn't start. the starter turned till the battery was almost dead. nothing. after i got home from work at about 7:30, i tried it again to see what would happen and it was the same, nothing. i don't know why but at 11pm i decided to go out and try it again. the motor didn't even roll over three times and it started right up. so i let it run for about half and hour to get thawed out and de-iced. it ran fine and smooth. sunday morning, at 6am i when out to warm it up before work. it wouldn't start again. almost ran the battery dead trying. so now i'm really pissed. tried it sunday night and it still wouldn't start. monday i call my mech. and ask him for sugestions. he said the first thing i should try it to see if i have any spark. he said to pull one of the plug wires off and stick a screwdriver in it, hold the screwdriver about 3/4 inch from a ground and see if i get a spark. i go out to do this and the battery is dead (probably from me trying to start it on sunday night). i hook it up to my wifes car, and decide that before i do like the mech. said, that i would try it to see if it would fire. it does. so once again i let the car thaw out for about a half hour and let the battery charge back up. after that, i shut it down and start again about a dozen times just to see it it would do it again. it doesn't, it starts just fine every time. the temp here is running about 10-20 in the day and about -5-10 at night. i don't know if that makes a difference but maybe. ok, thats my problem, lets see what site is more helpfull. GO!

MightyMouse

What does the contest winner receive?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. . .

Get a fuel pressure gage attached to it. Document fuel pressure under all conditions - before key on, when key is on, while not starting, while running, after shutting off, etc..

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Thirdgen.com???

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Any modifications to the car?

I'm betting an ignition component is flaky, same sorta thoughts as your mechanic. I'm putting my bet on electrical. When it won't start, get someone to crank it over while holding a plug to your block, see if you're getting the spark. You just have to wait until it won't start again

Slayre

I had a s-10 that over a period of 1 week it was harder and harder to start like you have described, until the point it wouldn't start at all. It would turn over until the battery got weak. I discovered a pinched fuel line near the gas tank. I guess it gradually pinched itself shut.Once I removed the pinch all was well. If I started the car within a hour it would fire right up. But if I let it sit longer the harder it was to start.To me it sounds like a fuel problem.

Guest

nOObs.

sc02t

sorry, i don't have a prize for the winner. a buddy of mine is bringing his fuel pressure gauge over in a little to check that out. a few mod done to the car, but nothing that significant. just in case though, accel injectors, k&n filters, descreened maf, baffels have been cut out, headman headers, no cat, flowmaster muffler, and lots of tranny work. none of that should have done this. this morning it started right up, so if (when) it happens again, i'll check the plug wire for spark. fuel lines don't appear to be pinched. you guys are all saying pretty much the same things here is a link to the other thread http://www.fbody.com/cgi-bin/3gen/read.cgi?msgid=68764 thanks for the help, i'll try the fuel pressure gauge and see what i get now that it is starting.

sc02t

started fine yesterday and today. just wanted to give you an update. hopefully it won't happen again, but if it does, i'll let you guys know what it was. thanks again.

scott

z28freak84

check the fuel pump relay. If it goes bad, the car will NOT start until the oil press. sensor senses oil pressure. This could be why it starts right up after the initial mornin' start up.

rgarcia63

Possibly, but it shouldn't take forever to build enough pressure for the switch to close.

"...i went out to start the car and it took forever for it to light..."

weeoh5

I'd look towards a bad ignition module...they can be flaky for years before actually failing, and are very temp sensitive. However, make sure to check fuel pressure when it doesn't start...make sure the pump is running...could have an issue with water in the gas that is freezing at the low temps.

T-rick'srod

Hey Scott,
Had a very similar problem - gremlins were messin' with me !!
Had a bad ignition module. If you're getting spark - it must be
fuel. Hope I could help!!

*********************************************************

Hey Moe, no wonder the water don't work -
These pipes is clogged up with wires !!

Jerome Howard - 1939

ResurrectingZ

Don't you just hate kansas weather?

It all sounds right to me. I bet it is the fuel pump relay. Haven't experienced one go out on me before, but if it does take that long to get up the oil pressure to activate the switch to kick on the fuel pump it would make sense.

rgarcia63

When the ignition module is intermittent, the ECM doesn't get a reference signal and will disable the fuel injectors.
When it doesn't start put a Noid light on the injector harness and see if your getting a signal.

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

they have a stupid board setup and i see some guy flippin the bird, did those guys just get their licenses? mayb the mods cant drive yet. flame over!

ne ways...sounds like a fuel problem, ya record your fp and see what happens, and when it doesnt wanna start, check for spark.

PS: we are better then fbody

Red92Bird

This might not be your problem, but its definately something to check out. i had a friend with a truck who had the same problems, turns out his distributor cap was completely worn out. it had just enough material on the button to let it start sometimes, but other times you could crank all you wanted and it wouldnt do a thing. Hope you get it figured out soon.

ishada

Posted By: useful_idi0t On: 01-15-2007 @ 17:57:31 Reply | Top | Edit if you want to know something about an 82-92 fbody, theres more info on that website than anywhere on the internet.

but i will say that theres alot of elitist @ssholes on that website. I only used it for info, never really liked it for anything else. to me, asking for help there sometimes was like getting blood from a stone, i stopped using it after i got my second bird.

like pocket said, its probably electrical.

i say vats, if a ground was loose, its more likely to make itself evident when the car is moving, but you never know. never hurts to check.





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I would bet my bottom dollar its fuel. Here in nevada when the weather is cold like where you are almost exactly. My 91 wil start but Idle really really rough until after warm up. I am guessing fuel. dunno why cause I am a newb but fuel it is.

Edit: you guys have been really great to me so far. I dunno what he's talking about

sc02t

i have another piece of the puzzle, well maybe. sometimes when i go to start it, it would just click. just one time and then nothing. you know, i would turn the key and i would hear one click, unlike a almost dead battery that will rapidfire click. when this happened in my other iroc, it was the vats. but the difference is that the first time it went click, it never started again. it was kind of like, once it is out, it's out. theres no 'going out' or 'almost out', it was just gone. the wire on the key cylinder broke. i bout a new key tumbler from oriellys, got a new key from the dealership w/ the correct teeth and resister, and it never have me any more problems. so i don't know if that could be connected to this problem or not, but i thought it would be a good idea to throw that out there.

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

how bout lookin at your ignition switch then, if it wont even turn over then it might be as easy as a warn out switch.

hoseman007

How about trying this check the fuse in the weather pack thats right beside the battery this is the power source for the ECM and FP.

3vi1p3nguin

that sorta thing happened to my mother's van. turned out to be a combination of corrosion in the distributor and her starter was worn in such a way that it would crank just too slow for the engine to start but quick enough you couldn't really tell

rgarcia63

Quite a few suggestions, would be nice to have some results.

RednGold86Z

iTrader: (1)

Another possibility is coolant temp sensor. It's on the front of the manifold - 2 wire connector.

sc02t

ok, it happened again. i checked the fuel rail and when i pushed the pin down, i had gas come out of it. so i should have fuel. i then pulled off a plug wire, put a screwdriver in, held it next the the plentum, and had a friend turn the key. i saw nothing. i started with it about an inch away and slowly put it closer and closer untill it touched and i still saw nothing. so i think i can safely say that it is spark related. how big of a spark should i have seen? it is daylight here, should i have still seen it? i'm thinking new accel cap and rotor should fix the problem. that sound right to you guys? any more suggestions? it is now 5:30 central time, and i've only got about an hour to decide.

sc02t

?

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

since you have no spark im thinkin its quite possibly your module. it should take all of 20 mins to swap out. i was talking to a friend in his drive and my car was behind me running. as we talked the car died and wouldnt crank back up. i borroed his moduel and that was hte problem. in that area i also had a bad wire causing a short. i pull the dizzy cap, lightly poke the wire, drop the cap and off i went.

rgarcia63

You can assume you have pressure, but you won't know if you have enough pressure without a psi gauge.

Test the spark to something steel, or iron.
The ignition module can be tested at a parts store, if it test good, it can still fail under load, but that's what it seems to be, a bad ICM.

sc02t

we were all wrong! it was the coil!!!! after it happened again, i got to thinking. i had checked the plug wire at the plug and got nothing before. so this time, i went back the next day and i checked the wire going from the coil to the top of the cap. i found out the hard way that the screw driver that i had was NOT insulated. shocked the hell out of myself. 40,000 volts, but luckily low amps. so i pluged it back into the cap, and the car started right up. i drove it home and thought maybe it would be fine for a few days and give me more of a chance to brainstorm. unfortunatlly, i went out to run some errends a few hours later and it would not start again. so i got a different screw driver and checked the coil to cap wire again. no spark. i was told that the coil rarly gos out, so i took off the cap and rotor and took the ignition module in to get tested. they tested it 3 times and it passed every time. so now i know that the module is good, the cap and rotor look worn, but still good, so it has got to be the coil. then i realized, remember this ..........
i still have this in my backyard! so i riped the coil off, installed it on mine, and the car started right up. i went ahead and ordered a new accel super coil. it will be here on thursday morning, untill then i'm just using the one off the old car. unfortunatly, since this was one of those poblems that didn't happen all time, only time will tell if i really found and fixed the problem. thanks again for all of you help. now for the winner. from fbody .com i got 238 views and 20 replys. from thirdgen.org, i got 407 views and 27 replys. so i got alot more traffic from thirdgen, but you all said basicly the same stuff. but......... looking back through the posts on both sites, not a single person guessed the coil. a few people said ingnition component, but nobody pin pointed the coil as the problem. so i guess the means the the real winner (that is if it doesn't happen again) is my mechanic. so thank you to randy woods who owns and operates randy's auto repair in pittsburg kansas. if any of you are anywhere near here, take you cars to him. he was also to one that rebuilt my tranny (it now will bark 2nd at half throttle , awesome) thanks for all the help.

ResurrectingZ

I like the knowledge and satisfaction when I get from working on my cars. Its not far from me, but I like doing it myself.

sc02t

so do i, but i know that i can't do everything myself. sometimes when i do'nt know my own limits, he is there to bail me out. where are you at?

rgarcia63

Your mechanic had the advantage of having the car to diagnose and test we didn't so he doesn't count.
Fuel was eliminated as a problem.
I believe Sonix was the first to pointed you to the correct system of failure, you tested the ICM, which sends the reference signal to ECM, and the ECM to the injectors, barring wiring problems the only thing left was the coil.