L98 Uh_Oh

83350Z,

I just sent you a private message. Check it out and let me know.

RFmaster

DO NOT INSTALL JUMPER WIRES - FIND THAT SHORT!!!!!!

L98 Uh_Oh

RF,

I just sent you a private message. Please, check it out and let me know. And I will find that short. No need to get impatient. End up doing more damage. Is there an easy way to locate? Or do I follow wire until I find? Thanx

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

uh oh, you have a PM!

Corky

The middle picture on your first picture post shows the small diameter orange wire (ECM power) with a bare spot on the insulation. Make sure that wire is not touching any metal when it is at rest. You will need to examine those wires - pull them out of the harness to inspect. You are getting close.
Corky

Corky

Attached is a picture of the power distribution for a V8 vin E. I am not sure if that's what you've got, but this gives you a good idea of where those wires go. You may have to print the document (have to compress it in order to upload) in order to read clearly. If you can't read colors I can interpret from the service manual. The key is to see that the orange wires go to the ECM - definitely the cause of your engine shut down.
Let us know how it's going,
Corky

L98 Uh_Oh

I got home from work and dug in. Traced wire all the way to main harness going down through firewall on passenger side, right in front of door under hood. Clamped an ohm meter onto the orange wire at battery. Pulled a little of wire out of loom, right were it goes down to (I would think, ECM). Stabbed wire and got 0 resistance. Touched around on various spots on engine, chassis, and body and could not find any spots where it would read 0 resistance. I clip wire (at battery) and meter lead to the engine together, and no matter where I touched opposite lead to (engine, body) I would read 0 resistance.

So, I install a 25 amp fuse in the inline for orange wire. Stole it from Wipers. Engine started right up, sat there and purrred like a sweet little kitten for 10 seconds, then instant death. I check fuse thinking for sure it would be blown, and NO? Nope! FP/ECM? Nope. Hmmm...

Next, I grab a foot long small diameter wire. Connect to fuse box (Tail Lights/Turn) and connect to ALDL, pin G. Engine started fine, ran great for roughly same amount of time, then dead. I clearly notice fuel pump staying on. Recheck fuse and its not blown. Jump pin A to pin B and only got code 12. Also notice that SES light will not go off when I turn ignition to on. I think it used to?

So, since car will only let me start and run maybe three or four times before it goes into just cranking over (until 10 minuets later when all will happen again), I keep cranking with a little gas pedal pumping while doing this. It seems to like "want to start" but never does during this stage. I get out and pull No.1 spark plug to find it black colored and bone dry.

Thats all I did tonight. Thats where I am at. This ring any bells, anybody?

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Ok so now we know:
- at 25 amps there is no issue with blowing a fuse, so short may be averted
- Even with the fuel pump running the car still dies which means something is telling the ignition and/or the fuek injectors to quite working.
- Injectors get a command from the ECM to fire by getting a reference pulse from the ignition module
- From what I read through the modlue is yet to be tested.
I would thing that will be the next thing that need to be ruled out.

I seriously doubt the MAF is cutting the car off at this point.

If you push the gas pedal down, does it keep running or does it die no matter what?

L98 Uh_Oh

Well, I don't for know for sure. Its definitely a "die no matter what", But at best, it might "prolong" dying a little. Tonight, started first time without touching gas pedal and didn't touch when dead. Second time, soon as car fired, I jammed pedal down to hold a real high (2500-3000rpm) idle. Not moving foot up or down, just holding steady high idle. When it died, I started to pump hell out of pedal. Seemed to maybe prolong death by a revolution or two, but wasn't going to save it.

Now, an ignition module. Where would that be located? I know it has something to do with the dizzy. I should mention that my coil is NOT on the dizzy cap like in service manual. Its on a bracket off to the side of dizzy. It was brand new along with cap, rotor, wires and plugs. All replaced days before I took possession of car. I have "overlooked" a section in service book on doing something with a volt/ohm meter to the stuff in dizzy under rotor. Would this be it? You might wanna bring me up to speed on this procedure or what I should look for and can follow instructions in book.

Thanks again...

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Well, the problem with the books is that it usually only details one version of dizzy setup in our cars. 87 was the first year of the remote coil on TPI's.

1- Mark all your plug wires 1-8.
2- Mark all the corresponding 1-8 posts on the Dizzy cap. This will make reinstall alot easier that checkignt he firing order, as long as you mark them and put them back exactly right
3- Undo the dizzy cap, the igntion module rests on the base of the dizzy,
see photo, it is the black thing with two connectors on the outside and
one on the inside
4- undo connectors, it is only attached by to small screws, can''t remember size sorry, but small.
5- Take it to an autoparts store, they will test it for free.

The ignition module does several things, I had had two F bodies that only a part of the module stopped working and the car still ran, just not good.

If yours is good, make sure you put some dielectric grease back on the bottom of it as it keeps the module cool somehow.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

pic of dizzy and module

L98 Uh_Oh

Think AutoZone would be able to test them? Its really the only place we have around here that is a parts store. Only prob. with AutoZone is there are always little zit poppers working there. Don't know if I want to trust their judgment. We do have a NAPA. I will call both them 2morrow and see. Will get module out 2morrow after work, get tested, and post results.

Thanks again...

P.S. I drew up a real cool design on the CAD today. Just waiting for the right sized material to be on CNC table to cut. Doing the Firebird "Bird" is going to be tough. Got it started but there is A LOT of angles and radius' on that. Wait till you see.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Yeah AZ, should test it, it is a pretty easy process. They "shouldn't" be able to screw that up. Ü
I will check tomorrow to see the progress. When did you get the car out of curiosity?

Sounds cool, look forward to the finshed product

L98 Uh_Oh

I got car months ago. Just tore into it a few week back. Some older dude broke down in front of my house. Me (the nice guy) went out and tried to lend a helping hand and diagnose problem. Well, after a half day (and him buying new coil, plugs, wires, cap, rotor), I offered $1000 bucks or get it the hell outta here. Couple days later, he was back with title in hand. I just pushed into garage until now. And after driving car them couple times, I think I fell in love. I have been driving V6's and 4 bangers for a long, LONG time!

First drive was just for a few blocks. With 8 year old (gear head) son in car. Took ride to ball diamonds (5-6 blocks away). Sideways around a couple corners, couple seat planters, and we were both in love. Second drive was later that night. Went for 20 minuet cruise. No hammering or nothing. Just a stroll. Parked in garage and that was the last time it ran good. I'm jonesing for more of that POWER!...lol

RFmaster

L98

I did a bit of head scratching. I have couple of theories, but here is the one that is more probable than others:
If you look at power distribution schematic provided by Corky (BTW, thank you very much) fused orange wire (#10 AWG) comes to a four way splitter. Two wires go to ECM, one goes to FP relay, and one oil pressure switch. You can disconnect harness at oil pressure switch and pull out FP relay to completely isolate Fuel pump from the rest of the wiring system.

Here is the theory de-jour. Fuel Pump is drawing excessive current. When FP starts, its current is well within fuse handling capacity and as it operates it draws more current until fuse current limit is reached. It is possible that fuel sock, inside the gas tank is clogged and fuel pump ingested disintegrated fuel sock thus jamming FP.

To verify - you'll need a DVM with 30 amp current capacity or a shunt resistor. You'll have to make a jumper wire from positive terminal of the battery through an inline fuse (30 Amp) to Ampmeter terminals to a load side (Fuel pump) contact within fuel pump relay socket. You do not have to start engine for this test. Disconnect oil pressure switch as this will directly measure current drawn by fuel pump and nothing else. Once pump starts it should draw a steady current from battery - depending on a pump type it can be any where from 3 to 6 Amps. If it's starts low and quickly rises the FP is clogged or you have a defective pump. Note - this is a very short duration test - if you see current going sky high disconnect power immediately to avoid harness damage and fire!!!

It is worth a look.

//RF

Corky

I woke up this morning thinking this could very well be a classic ignition module failure (same as 8335OZ above). I would just replace the module - fairly simple R&R and fairly inexpensive. Also check the pick-up coil inside the dizzy. Look for green funk around the wiring connections to the module. If pick up coil is in crappy shape, gotta pull the dizzy to replace.
Corky

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

I'm out for most the night but will check back later on, good luck!!

L98 Uh_Oh

Thanks RF. I will give that a try. Only question I have is where is the oil pressure "switch"? Is this the oil pressure sensor? I know where that is. I do have a DVM and pretty sure it measures up to 30 amperes. Will need this info before I begin this test. Just to be on safe side. Thanks again...

L98 Uh_Oh

Hey thanks for that diagram Corky. Only thing bad is I tried to print it out several times at different zooms and can't get resolution good enough to read. Was this diagram from a Haynes or Chilton's? I have a Haynes.

Reason I "quoted" you, I pulled ignition module and took to AutoZone. They hooked to machine and tested three times. Said it work good, nothing wrong there. As for the wires that go to it. I took the tiny bolts out of Ign. Mod., when I tried to unplug connector on back of it, the white plastic part of plug disintegrated in my hands. There was this greenish goo all over wires right at connection. Appeared to me to be some sort of grease or lube. Very sticky. I snapped a few photos of what I found in dizzy.

After removing cap and rotor, I noticed the center of metal part was kind of rusty looking. Also, the round thingy surrounding rusty metal part will slightly rotate and wobble a bit with force. Of course I wasn't doing it very hard so not to damage. Just an observation. What youz think?

L98 Uh_Oh

Just a couple pictures of some things I did at work. I get A LOT of play time. Hey 83350Z, I did the IROC-Z one for you. Will ship out in a day or so. What you think?

Corky

I have the factory service manual - I never liked those Haynes manuals, they always leave you hanging. Now that you have the dizzy open, test the pickup coil. Use your ohm meter. First test - place one lead of meter to the metal outer ring of pickup coil & touch each wire with the other lead - meter should read infinity. Next test - touch each lead of meter to each wire on pickup coil (reading resistance of pickup coil) you should read a steady 500-1500 ohms. Make sure you move the leads on pickup coil around while you perform this test. Reading needs to be a steady value. The leads are known for breaking and losing continuity.
Sometimes testing ignition module at the store shows good, but when it's running in the car is when they fail. They usually fail when they heat up, so by the time you test at the store they cool down & test OK.
I will try to get a better resolution diagram tomorrow. Is tour car a vin E or vin F? There are 2 different diagrams.
Corky

L98 Uh_Oh

Where do I find that info? Do I look down through driver side windshield? If so, which numbers will tell me what you need to know? Thanx...

L98 Uh_Oh

I just went out and wrote Vin number down. 1G2FW2183JL228085. I would think I have a Vin F. Only reason being is there is no letter "E" in my Vin No..

Also, do I pull the dizzy to check the pick up coil? Also, you state that Ign. Mod. will fail after they warm up. My car hasn't ran long enough to warm up since the last time it ran good. Won't stay running for more than 15 - 20 seconds @ a time. Ign. Mod. is cheap and was planning on buying new one Friday. Thanks again for any info...

And just wondering, what does that little "flame" by my post mean? On tech board main page...

RFmaster

You do not need to pull dizzy to check pick up coil (reluctor coil) You can tested with dizzy still installed.

The flame means that there is a lot of attention to this saga - post!

I think in your car oil pressure switch is above oil filter on driver side - just disconnect during test. I'll try to walk you through.
//RF

L98 Uh_Oh

Thanx RF! I really appreciate that. I know exactly where that is. Will dig in tomorrow when I get home from work. Where on the dizzy is that p/u coil? Was just a flat plate under ign. mod. Did you see the pictures of my dizzy? Everything look good to you (besides plastic connector)? I am a sponge ready to soak up your wisdom...lol Lay it on me.

Man, is it past my bed time. I find it hard to break away from this website. I swear, its a curse...lol Its gonna cause my divorce...lol (kidding) lmao!

Thanx guys...

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Dude that sign looks awesome, I appreciate it. And I have good news. I know what your problem is. It is the Distributor. You need a new one.

That is why the car died in fornt of your house and why you are haivng these issues.

My Dad's 87 TBI truck has a 350. It would run ok when we were on the gas but kept dying at idle in drive or reverse. When I pulled the cap, all kinds of green powdery stuff, the connector on the back of the module crumbled in my hand as well

My Buddies 87 T/A, run bad and quit running. Fuel pump and Dizzy got that car at the same time. Tried to remove the reluctor to replace the pickup coil and the reluctor broke in our hands. Also had greenish powder. The powder is the pickup breaking down.

My current 88 IROC, would start run and die, start run and die, run like crap if I gave it gas. Pulled my cap, I could move the shaft by hand, the points on the reluctor had been worn down because of the wobble.

Alot of corrosion in all instances.

You car starts at first runs and then dies because you distributor is not giving all the correct signals it needs to because it is worn out. I know it is like $100 but I am 99.99% sure it is the problem and if the .01% chance it is not. I don;t think anything else could be done until it is replaced.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

One other thing, if you look at the the points on the trigger in the first pic, you can see some of the points are worn down, that is from them hitting the contacts on the reluctor.

RFmaster

Yep, reluctor coil will keep ECM from controlling injectors and turning fuel pump on. However, why did he blew main ECM supply fuse unless FP is jammed????

Regarding dizzy - I have taken my spare small hat HEI apart for another troubleshooting post - here are the pics for reference.

Yep, I know this place can be addictive, but I like that way! Good night and sleep well - do not worry about XYL. She'll be happy once you fix your ride.

//RF

L98 Uh_Oh

Hey RF,

You read the part about me blowing the ECM fuse, but that was a 10 amp. When I installed a 25 amp, taken from wipers, fuse never blew again. Would you still think F/P? Your test doesn't sound too involved or difficult, and I will give a try just to rule out.

So the larger round thing, surrounding the rusty middle part (on dizzy), is the P/C? Shouldn't there be springs and a bunch of guts (internal parts)? Mine doesn't look like the ones in the book at all. And I agree, it doesn't look in that great of shape. I'd really be disappointed though if I rushed out and blew a hundred or so bucks on a new dizzy, and have problem persist.

Now my final question. Can the dizzy just "instantly" go out? I have to keep reminding myself that the night before all this started, I drove car with no issues. Ran like a dream. Can the dizzy just crap out sitting overnight?

Thanx guys...

RFmaster

L98

Yes, reluctor coil can go instantly or on rare occasion become intermittent. In just about every case that I have seen so far coil wire just breaks somewhere due to corrosion. Apparently it is a real problem for people living in harsher climates! Rust and green looking stuff are indication of moisture getting inside dizzy which can wreck a dizzy of time.
The ring like structure with slots on its interior is a magnetic field guide sorta speak. The reluctor coil is mounted below it - you can see it as it has white looking plastic cover. The rotor has magnets - and in your picture is very rusty looking. As it rotates the magnetic field which is present due to permanent magnets mounted on a shaft is being interrupted by these slots. Change in magnetic field causes change in induced current generated in the reluctor coil. Ignition module has an input buffer circuit that detects these changes and converts it into voltage pulses (DRP) which ECM uses to determine Engine RPM and to control injectors.

There are no weights, springs that use to perform timing advance. All timing changes are controlled by ECM, except that you must set initial timing correctly for F-bodies it is about 6 deg BTDC.

//RF

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Yes, it can go bad all of a sudden. My dad's truck, same dizzy as our cars, went bad all of a sudden. I pulled the truck in the garage, did a tune up, alternator and fuel pump. And when I pulled it out it would keep dying at idle. I didn't touch the cap as we replaced that earlier. No problem of dying before, but after I put new crap on it, it started giving us fits. Put a new module on it and still no help. Replaced dizzy and it never ran so good.

And the dizzy in the book may be an older one. Ours is pretty simple. There is a bushing/bearing in the dizzy shaft and when it wears out you get the slop in the shaft. Then the magnetic piece on the shaft gets in to the magnetic points on the reluctor and wears down the pointed ends increasing the gap between them. A new dizzy has some friction when these touch. All my owrn ones had a greater gap, which can reduce the signal, which will not tell the ECM to fire the injectors.

I know it sucks, but My dad's truck came from South Carolina, My IROC came for Florida, and My friends T/A came from North Carolina I think. All those dizzy's looked similar to the condition of this one.
My Formula had 145K on it, was from Central Georgia and Alabama and the dizzy was clean and had little corrosion under the cap. And it had the original module still in it when it went out at 150K. So that goes toward RF's last post about climate.

I know $100 is steap. But even if the .01 % chance of this not being the problem. There is a 99& chance you will have problems shortly out of this one. But I am sure this is it. If it was my car, I would do it. Well, I have done it.....

L98 Uh_Oh

New dizzy will be here tomorrow morning. Getting from NAPA for 130 bucks with my core. One thing I might of forgot, I just told the NAPA guy what year, make, model, and engine size my car was. Does it matter that my car doesn't have the "coil-in-cap" dizzy? Originally, was this the type that was in my car, you think? I sure hope this fixes it...

Getting cold outside and I have no heat in garage. I got a small space heater but my garage is a 32'x48' foot monster with 10 foot ceilings. Little heater does nothing. Been looking for a couple 55 gallon drums to make a wood burner. Going to put one on top of another, weld 6 or 8, 4 inch diameter tubes through top drum, and put a squirrel cage fan on back. My buddy has one like this and seems to work good.

Hey, you guys ever hear of a "Corn Burner"? I was speaking one time with this old timer, and I mean "OLD TIMER", and he mentioned he used a corn burner to heat his garage. Said you need only a small chimney vent and that it smelled like popcorn when being used. Said a bushel of corn would last a winter. I have asked around, but nobody seems to know what I am talking about or where to get one. Just wondering. Thanks again guys...

Corky

Glad to see you are getting a new dizzy. We are all interested in how this will turn out. I have been waking up thinking about your engine... I am a sick gear head! I am definitely jealous of your garage - I have garage envy! Here is what I found on corn burners - pretty interesting.

http://www.cornburner.com/

Corky

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

I believe 86 was the last year for the in cap coil on TPI cars. My friends 87 and my 88 both have remote coils.

RFmaster

L98

You have external coil dizzy. Before you pull your dizzy make sure to mark rotor position on your current dizzy body. That way you do not have to hunt for initial timing. Even better - get a breaker bar, rotate engine until balancer is showing 0 TDC and rotor aligns against #1 Cylinder post. Mark that position on dizzy body. Before trying to yank old dizzy - spray some WD-40 onto a dizzy mounting flange - it may be a bit difficult to yank.

On a new dizzy mark the the same location and turn rotor shaft counter clockwise. (I mark both positions)



//RF

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Just to add to what RF said. The shaft will move some when pulling it out. Mark where it is before you pull and where it is after you pull. It will turn back when you install so you will just have to reverse it. Did tha ton my last two and they took like five minutes to do. This will also help you make sure you seat the pin in the dizzy gear to the driveshaft for the oil pump.

L98 Uh_Oh

You guys are not the only ones interested to see how this turns out...lol And thanks for the info on the corn burners Corky. Sounds like a good way to bring heat into garage, but unfortunately, I don't have the 29-45 hundred bucks laying around to purchase one. Wish I did. Looks like I will have to do the ol' wood burner and a sore back.

Yes, I don't want to say the garage was the only factor in buying my house, but was a big part. My house is 1600 square feet, garage is 1000! And its only about 6 years old. You still can smell a hint fresh lumber. However, It wasn't insulated. A couple years ago I started to do that, but ran outta flow before I finished. Its about two-thirds insulated and about half drywalled. Trust me, its A LOT of garage. That will have to be done before heat. Would be wasting time/effort. Only problem is, bigger the garage, the more JUNK your wife can fit into it...lmao Thanks again.

RF and 83350Z, Done and done. Unfortunately I found this out the hard way after putting new head gaskets on. Had to do a few times to get right.

One thing that was hard to figure out was when I had cap, rotor, and wires off car, I couldn't figure out which direction the rotor should be pointing to when installed. I mean, I could have the rotor pointing any direction, and could still be number one if I put number one wire to that position. In manual, book gives direction of rotor for 4 cyl, and V6's, but not for V8's. Called AutoZone and got firing order but even they could not tell me which direction rotor should point when installed. I called a buddy who Demo derby's a lot and he only uses GM 350's. He said, "point it to the drivers seat". Thats where I put it and then just started my wires there at number one. Does this make any sense? I hope I did it right.

Lesson learned here: don't get ahead of yourself. Read the book and when it tells you to mark the position, mark the position...lol I did this time, but didn't crank engine to TDC. Starting to think maybe I should of. I'm certain I know where it goes. Will install new dizzy tomorrow after work and post results.

Thanks again guys...

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

I am looking forward to the results. I am more interested in getting your car right than my own at this point Ü

As long as you made your marks on the dizzy, you should be fine. My last one I actually made marks on the firewall, (black car, black sharpie, no biggie)
went right in. In fact it went in so well I was sure it wasn't right but it was!

L98 Uh_Oh

I drew a clock on a piece of paper. Laid on back of upper plenum. When I took dizzy out, it was in the 11 o'clock position if 12 was directly toward rear of car. When I pulled up, rotor turned to roughly about the 9:30 position before coming free. Yup, getting anxious here too. Going to be a LONG day at work.

One thing I am not looking forward to is, todays forecast high is 35, tonights low is 15. Time to break out the Carhardts. Have I mentioned yet, I really dislike winter? Bad part is, its not even winter yet!...lol...

Corky

Ok, I've attached the power distribution for the VIN F chassis. There are a few differences. It appears that there is a junction point for all the orange wires. It may simplify finding what is blowing your fuse - disconnect one at a time (except fuel pump related wires) & see which one blows, or doesn't blow the fuse.
Corky

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

We're waiting............................................................

L98 Uh_Oh

Thanks Corky,

That one diagram turned out a lot better. This will help. Thank you much.

As for new dizzy, I got it today but it doesn't look the same. There was some differences. I will upload a couple pictures of it. One thing you will notice is there is no (I think) dust shield? And old dizzy had four points that surrounded inner part that rotated. New one has eight. Other than these two things, all is the same. NAPA guy cross referenced my old dizzy and said new one was the one I needed. So, I'm out into the cold to install and freeze!...lol I am going to check this post before I try to start as a "just in case", you guys know something the NAPA guy didn't. Better to be safe than sorry.

Cross your fingers!...

Oh, and last picture is something I did today. Just toying around a bit.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

It is the correct one. Same as all the ones I replaced. That dust sheild is more a nuisance anyway. Sign looks sweet!!

solaris_vii

iTrader: (3)

ive been having a similar problem with my iroc, and you guys said something about a clogged fuel pump. what would that do to your car? im really thinking its the fuel pump because first of all the gas gauge needle is always floating around from one level to another so i KNOW the sending unit is bad (ive had three sets of gauges all do the same) and the car really acts up if i hit a bump or if i take a real quick turn or something that could jostle things up in the gas tank? any ideas? is it a clogged or bad fuel bad? ps sorry to hijack this thread, i too am looking forward to hear if you get your car running

L98 Uh_Oh

Hmmm, how do I say this nicely,

YEEEEEEEE!!!!! HAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

Thank you! Thank You! Thank YOU!!! Yup, that was it!

Man, you guys are the ****!! Me SO happy right now!...lol...

Put dizzy in and let me tell you, its WAY easier to take out than put in when all that crap is in the way...lol Anyway, got it in and hit the key. It fired up and I waited for it to die, but never did. I attempted to set time to 6 BTDC, but seemed to run better at around 8 BTDC. I left at 6, but idle was rougher than before. Little sluggish down low and would die if I sat in drive at idle. Didn't do that before. When I was setting time, it wasn't easy doing by myself. Stupid timing light I borrowed is the kind that has a spring that goes on the tip of plug. About 3 inches long and cap just rests on other end. Then a little clamp, clamps on the spring. Darn thing kept arching off the header. I got it set pretty good, enough for a small test drive anyway. Got a buddy coming over tomorrow to lend a hand and will make sure its right. As for idle, almost sounds like a minor vacuum leak. I checked everything before I left, and everything looked good to me.

It was cold, so I let it warm up a little, then I take it for the same drive I did before all this happened. Nice and easy. While on the gas, it seemed to run great. While holding steady at speed, it seemed to (feel like) load up. Not really missing, but just not right. Until you give a little gas and alive she comes. Any ideas on this?

Anyway, I couldn't resist. My son is a car FANATIC! We have ALL the good PS2 games. All the Need For Speed's, all Grand Turismo's, etc.. So, as I am coming back home, I pull up in front of house and lay a nice patch and wake all the neighbors. With headers, no cat., three inch all the way to SMALL Flowmaster, it sounds real mean. Real loud! And I LOVE IT. Oh well, neighbors better get used to it...lol

Anyway, Just want to thank everybody who had lent some knowledge. As for what car is doing now, any thoughts? I plan on going over everything again tomorrow. Make sure I didn't miss/forget anything., and re check time.

Now that car is running, you think I would be done. I am only beginning...LMAO!!!! This only raises more questions. Like how much can I do to engine before I have to mess with ECM? We will save that for another day/another post. Thanks again guys...

L98 Uh_Oh

Hey solaris_vii,

My advise would be to search the archives. This would not be the best spot to try to sneak in. Although, I really don't mind. I just think you would have better luck posting your own post with the most info you could provide. The peeps who are here to help, know their stuff. You would have a better chance.

If your car is doing what mine was doing, try replacing the dizzy. Worked for me...

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Awesome, glad it worked out!!!!!As far as runninng issues, start with all your vacuum lines. I knocked my main line off that goes to the brake booster and was going nuts figuring it out.
Supposedly these cars like 8 degrees BTDC as well. Make sure your EST was disconnected. Check all other Electrical connectors just to make sure nothing came undone. Is your SES light on?

L98 Uh_Oh

No SES light. Yes, I am glad it was dizzy. Thanks again. You were the winner! Next time I see you are 99.99% sure of something, I will listen...lol Not that someone else wouldn't of come to that conclusion, you just beat them to the punch. I will go over entire engine compartment tomorrow. Recheck everything. One thing I did notice is there is a small amount of antifreeze coming from intake manifold right behind alternator. Noticed it the first time I drove car after new head gaskets. After my ride tonight, I didn't see any. Should I be worried about this? I checked my oil and no milky coloring. At first, I was worried about manifold leaking on inside. Do new manifold gaskets have to seat? I mean, will they like swell over time and maybe fix on their own? I'd sure hate to have to tear top of motor off again, but if I have to, I have to.

Another minor thing I noticed is the blower for heat doesn't work. I threw the volt meter to the connector and I am getting 12 volts to connector. Fuse is good. Think its the blower?

By the way, I see you mentioned you were more interested in getting my car right before your own. Not that I would be able to lend any info on yours, but whats your problem? Got a link to any of your posts?

You see the new Bowtie with the Z28? Same Bowtie, just did something different. The "Bird" is being a little more difficult. Not easy to draw. Boss at work told me to go to computer store and get whatever I needed for our new CNC. Shouldn't of told me that...lol Getting new Gateway, 160 gig hard drive, 2 gigs of ram, 3 gig Pentium duo core possessor, DVD burner, and a 25 inch LCD. He about crapped his pants when I brought him the invoice. Right now I draw on a laptop with a 15 inch monitor. Total crap! Good thing is I am also getting a scanner/printer/copier. Only reason I say all this is now, I will be able to scan a photograph, save as a PDF, convert to DXF, then to CAD. To put it another way, I will be able to cut anything I can get a picture of.

That Chevy Bowtie and everything I have drawn on AutoCAD, is by free hand (so to speak). The bowtie is however exact dimensions as is the IROC-Z and the Z28. Got those pictures off internet. Did a Pontiac logo today, but that was easy. So far, you, Corky, and RF are going to be the lucky ones. But I would pretty much make one for anybody. I love doing stuff like this. Breaks up the monotony of work. Plus, there is just something about me knowing people are going to be looking at my work and saying, "WOW, thats awesome"!

I will post any and all findings tomorrow. Before I go to bed, is it alright to run 8 BTDC if car seems to like/prefer it? Thanx buddy...

RFmaster

Also after setting timing with EST disconnected the SES light will be lit. (Code 43 IIRC will be set) which is normal. Clear TDC by disconnecting battery for about 1 minute. The ECM will have to re-learn fueling table (BLM) since all previous compensation is now gone. Its ok, just drive at various speeds, traffic conditions and in about 25 miles CM will have sufficient compensation re-learned.

Vacuum leaks are always a pesky problem to resolve. Congrats!!

//RF

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Can't wait sign, already have a spot in my garage picked out for it.!!!! Thanks again. You really didn't have to do that.

As for my Car, it is slowly being brought back to life.
When I got it, it would barely run, it would overheat and the trans slipped bad.
I have done the CTS, Mass Air Flow, O2 sensor dizzy, cap, coil, rotor, wires, plugs, thermostat, air deflector under the car, vacuum line repairs, harmonic balancer, new tires, installed new trans, refurbished my guage cluster, installed a stereo, cleaned my interior, and then right after maticuously cleaned it again because my muddy German Shepard thought we were going for a ride Ü, I have tested everything I can with a multi meter, did multi vacuum tests, timing and retiming, fuel pressure tests until my guage gave up, a bunch of interior crap, power window motor, a driverside window and
a turn signal flasher relay.....
The car already had a rebuilt motor with about a years worth of driving and a new fuel pump with barely any road time on it.
I have been screwing with it over a month now
and the ultimate problem is this. It was running real rich, field service mode of the ECM showed it was running rich too, it would hesitate to rev and almost stall if I would floor it from idle, when driven had about 2/3's the power it should. But last weekend after another round of threatening it's life it started fine, ran fine and drove fine. For no reason. From the board I thought I had a leaky injector but like I said my guage gave up.
I started it again later and again it was fine, just an ever slight hint of hesitation. Haven't driven it since as it still needs rotors, shift cable (I have to crawl under to put it in park) and most of all heater core instaled.
But I am broke and need to pass emissions to get tags.
That is it in a nutshell Ü It could have been old gas from sitting before I got it I guess, who knows at this point. Until I get some better seat time I can;t do much else othe rthan test for leaky injectors.

As far as that coolant, check two things, your thermostat housing and the waiter pipe unfer the throttle body. Could be either. If you torqued you head gaskets to spec, they won't leak. Manifold gaskets should be done after initial torque rating, but never hurts to check. I bet it is the thermo housing or the water pipe under the TB.

Sorry this was sooo long.