RicksIroc86

will it hurt my car if i put 20w 50 oil in it

i have really shitty oil pressure when it warms up, like 10psi and ill lose to the 40th anniversary v6 mustangs(i should drive off a cliff) but when its still coldish ill have like 40 psi and beat the 40th anniversary gt mustangs.

i have a 305 tpi in a 86 camaro

and ive already changed the oil pressure switch

and i used the search and all i saw was people saying replace the oil pressure switch

so would this oil help me maybe?

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Have you tried hooking up a good mechanical after market guage? For now you can add the 20W-50, but if it's indeed needed, the engine is smoked and needs bearings, not to mention the car will lose HP turing that thick azzed molasses oil....kinda why new school engine builders stopped recommending that stuff years ago...build'em tighter, run thinner oil and make more ho since oil pump is not trying to churn that thick stuff.

but i would try a mechanical guage before i went ans pulled the motor...or put in the thick stuff and sell it if you cant afford to rebuilt it since if psi is truely that low, your on borrowed time...dump it while ya can and start over.

RicksIroc86

yea thats what i been thinking about selling it, i appreciate the advice man

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

You are bad people! My dad used to talk about that crap all the time. Put 90W oil in the crankcase to quiet down the howl when you try to sell the car. Ouch.
Gauge it first. You can always put new bearings in that engine, the .001 or .002" under ones. That is, if it's worth it in a 305.

igotta355z28

iTrader: (1)

hey now u have a good excuse to pull that tired 305 and drop in a 350, nothin else look on craigslist for a good used one...but dont think you can fix a mechanical problem with a chemical... its like trying to put a bandaid on a shotgun wound....

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Yep, it's a cruel unforgiving world out there, that's for sure

RicksIroc86

would a 350 work with the trans. and rear end and all the other stuff in an 86?

afremont

Yes it will. You will need some bigger injectors and a different ECM (or tuning) that "understands" the needs of the bigger motor or it'll run way too lean. The engine will fit perfectly under the hood and mate up with your transmission just fine. All your accesories will bolt right on. IOW, there is no outside difference between the two engine blocks. (except the casting numbers of course)

Supervisor42

Besides, if he changed the oil pressure switch down by the oil filter, he didn't change the oil pressure sending unit up by the distributor.
...Or you could change the OPSU while you are putting in the 350. It'll be a lot easier to get to then.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You might just as well melt some candle wax and pour that into your motor.

What good is "high pressure", if there's no FLOW??

Verify your gauge reading, by replacing the sending unit (cheap, easy, likely to fix the problem) or adding another gauge (expensive, more difficult, factory gauge will still read wrong if it's broke). If you REALLY don't have oil pressure, repair the engine.

Thick oil is NOT the right answer, in ANY case.

Supervisor42

Unless it's a NITROUS motor with huge ring gap that would otherwise use a quart of oil every 200 miles...
*nudges Sonix*

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, but with snug stock type clearances I don't think the super thick oil is what i'd want. But hey, diesel oil with "the good additives" is most common in 15-40W so....
I'll just carry my funnel with me in my car.... Getting the valves hot-tanked on monday so I can finally reassemble this.

Supervisor42

So, how many times does this make you having the motor out of the car now?
What's in the latest setup?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Now that's just cruel.... Yea yea, the "new" 350 has been out of the car 3 times now since it was built.
First build, install. (lunati voodoo 60103)
wipe cam, rebuild (bearings), reinstall with new cam (compxe 268)
leaking oil, remove, rebuild, (bearings and rings, oil pan) new cam again, reinstall (now).

Latest setup includes 3.73 gears (up from 3.23), a true-trac posi to replace the open which replaced the stock posi, home made tubular poly/rod end control arms, and the engine upgrades, which are:

The isky Z-25, more valve spring shims (remove umbrellas, shim up to the max), poly locks on 1.6 SA rockers, a bit more head porting, gasket match this time, along with intake "porting" (what a waste of time that was, this intake was gorgeous...)
A NOS cheater system (150-250HP) for the spreadbore might be going on a little later. Need to save up a smidge of coin first. Home made tubular torque arm will be coming in the spring, and some drag radials. A Howe hydraulic throw out bearing, and ball-socket style header collectors round out the list of upgrades.
I'm going to lock out the timing at 36* and install an ignition toggle switch in the ashtray.
Oh yea, and a wideband O2 sensor is being installed.

Once I get it running and broken in on the stand (if it ever stops friggen SNOWING!!!!), i'll be setting it up, dialing it in, then taking it to a dyno. This summer is for sure.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

you live in the south id DEFINTELY use 20w-50. It wont hurt the car. The oil will defintely raise your oil pressure. I say definetly do it, I run 10w-40 usually but Ive also ran 20w-50, and even straight 40w and 50w.

Supervisor42

You going to add all those shims after you break in the cam right?
You're gonna like that cam too. The 108° LSA will definately give it "attitude".
...don't forget the liberal coating of "Rev-Lube" and .018" lash.Get that on video!! and post it!

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Yeah you do have to be careful if it's real cold out and you're running a thick oil.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, it's going to have zero spring shims (super weak spring force then), and 1.5 SA rockers. After break in i'll shim it up (assembled), and put on the 1.6 SA rockers.
Yea, I was going to video as much of the breakin as I can. It'll be deafening and a bit of a clusterf*.... We'll be running around it setting timing, fooling with idle mixture, and trying to keep the idle speed up, and tinkering with water flow, etc. Plus 30 minutes of video on a digital camera would be a ginormous file size, so i'll probably just get the first few minutes. Then a clip of me cussing and screaming about wiping out the cam

91chevywt

Changing the oil viscosity wont make your car faster, well not in this case. Sounds like you might have a performance problem...when the car switches to closed loop and is warm. I think it would be unrelated to oil pressure. 10psi at idle isnt "bad" but it isnt good, just sounds like your motor is a little worn. If you have 10psi at like 3000 rpms you probably have worn bearings. If your bottom end starts making noise it's time for a rebuild before you wipe out the motor

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

Why is everyone hating on thick oil?? A) it protects better B) he lives in the SOUTH C) The engine is WORN it needs thicker oil Go for you'll have better oil pressure and less oil burn off.

ladyjynx

I have to disagree with the engine needing thicker oil just because it is worn. I can't say to switch or not but on that one point, I have well over 500,000 miles on my camaro. I run plan old 10-40 in it and have never had an issue related to the oil (well aside from having to change it).

RicksIroc86

update:

I put 10w 40 oil in it with some lucas oil stabilizer and it reads that there is oil pressure but there is still the really bad knock. i put it on the lemon lot today for 3500 and am now looking at a 88 bird with a 350.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Put another bottle of lucas in it LOL!!! There is one shadey lot they filled the entire oil pan with lucas to mask the bad rod bearings..and it worked, they just had to make the test drive a short one...foockin crooks.

Thick oil is 70/80's school of thought, build a motor loose and let the thick oil cushion take up the slack..it free up hp having a loose engine...but with more advancement in technologythey've realized they can get greater hp with tighter motors and less viscosious oil not draggin the oil pump down all the time and hence more power/better fuel milage and just about any reputable engine builder keeping up with modern times has gotten away from sloppey short blocks and telling customers to run 5-30/10-30 in the spring/fall and a 10/40 in the summer...synthetic if they can swing it.

the thick oil is an old time diversion tactic, it masks the problem of worn bearings and noises, since yes, it's filling the void of worn bearing material...but like i said, unless you just came out of a time capsule, the only thing running molasses is guy stuck in the past and big rigs

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

I guess im stuck in the past but i swear by it and im not changing my ways. I've seen people put 90w gear oil in the crankcase just to sell the car also, its a pretty dirty trick and I dont recommend it.

91chevywt

indeed times are different...i was driving an 06 ranger for a while w/ 2.3 4 banger...looked up on all data bearing clearances are supposed to be .0015" lol 5w20 blend is recommended. i run 10w40 in my truck and thats the thickest ill ever use...if you NEED anything thicker than that there is issues that need to be fixed, unless its manufacturer recommended to run 20w50 or put 90w gear oil in my oil pan i wont do it lol If i ever bought a car and found out it needed to run gear lube or 4 quarts of lucas i'd be mighty pissed.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Because it's the WRONG ANSWER. Doesn't even matter what the question is, it's the WRONG answer.

Engine bearings need OIL FLOW, not OIL PRESSURE. All that the pressure is there to do, is to produce the flow. Thicker oil doesn't flow as well as thinner oil. Therefore, it HARMS the engine, it doesn't HELP it.

If the engine is worn, it needs to be repaired. Putting in thicker oil won't fix the used-up or damaged bearings.

If the gauge reads low, then the gauge needs to be repaired. Just making the gauge read higher by putting in thicker oil, is non-productive.

You could theoretically take an engine with .020" of bearing clearance, and put wheel bearing grease in it, and the gauge would probably read higher. Will this fix the enigne? No.

A street engine with the correct clearances for that purpose needs NO HEAVIER THAN 10W-40. A racing engine with 3 times that clearance and the oil diluted with alcohol, might need thicker oil. This is DEFINITELY one of those cases where just because race cars do it, doesn't mean that you should be doing it in your daily driver. It's a question of "suitability for purpose", and NOT one of "quality" or "toughness" or "heavy duty".

I lived in the deep South myself for about 35 years. Still have relatives down that way in fact, in Huntsville (Supervisor, from Arab, will know the place: Wall-Triana Hwy north of 72, out toward Harvest). I even went to Ole Miss back about a hundred years ago. I know EXACTLY what the weather is like in that part of the world. I ran Mobil1 10W-30 in the summer and 0W-20 if I could get it in the winter, or 10W-30 if I couldn't get the other. That was in one of these cars, stock cooling system with electric fan, with a 305 and later a 400, with the AC running 8 months out of the year.

The oil pressure has no connection whatsoever with 6-cylinder Frod products. That's some whole other unrelated issue.

40 psi hot is perfectly fine. That's higher, in fact, than most stock SBCs produced in the 60s and 70s, because they used a 35 psi bypass valve in the oil pumps back then. It's plenty. Not a problem. Lower than usual maybe, but not a problem; and might in fact be PERFECTLY normal, if the engine has a standard M-55 oil pump in it.

RicksIroc86

yea man i mean i know its not the answer i know it needs to be fixednot covered up but im tryin to sell it so i just threw in 10 40 so it reads ok.**** ive only had the car 2 months and it just fell apart. the guy i bought it from ****ed meso i dont have much a choice.plus im not a big fan of the 305(or fuel injection) but thanks for the advice

91chevywt

If it were me, I would sell it as is. When the potential buyer drives it, they may or may not see the problem. All you know is that your not masking a problem. If i bought a car and found out it had molasses in the crankcase id be pretty pissed and probably call you back to give an earfull

IHI

iTrader: (1)

but he'd still have your cash

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

I knew a guy that bought a motor off someone on craigslist turns out when he put it in it had a spund bearing, dude came back and beat the **** outta the guys wife, got arrested then came back and beat the **** outta the dude and went to jail for a year.

91chevywt

i already have enough vehicles to take care of i cant afford anymore lol wouldnt be my cash

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That's about 3 - 4 times what the car is worth... good luck getting that. In PERFECT FLAWLESS PRISTINE LIKE-NEW condition, $3500 would be a tough sell; but with a knocking motor, .... you do the math.

Put a sign that says "nice car, needs motor work, $1500" on it and hope some sucker will come along; and if somebody offers $1200, take it and run.

Don't try to hide anything, bogus anything, lie, cheat, steal, fool anybody into thinking anything that isn't absolutely true, etc. etc. etc. Be honest and truthful even if it hurts. If it has turned out that you made a mistake by buying it, well that sucks, I agree, and I feel your pain (BTDT); but the correct answer is NOT, rip somebody else off. That's just scum low-life behavior, and has a way of coming back around to hurt you.

RicksIroc86

yea, well **** man, if you ever want to sell a camaro come to enterprise alabama and sell it. the used car prices are so ****ed up here. i sold a 87 2.8 v6 camaro for 3000, and when i was selling my el camino i put the camaro i have now(86 305 tpi) on the lemon lot for 6000 and i got 2 calls in one( i just wanted to see if anyone would call) cars here are VERY expensive, dont ask me why.but i think i can get 3500 easy, and yea ill say i THINK it may need to be rebuilt in a while but its good for now, and the tranny is totaly fine it doesnt slip or stick which is what i usualy see go out on these cars.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Well good luck.... but don't bother arguing with ME about the price, I'm not the one that's going to give you that much money, or not, for your car. Just DON'T rip other people off by trying to pull the wool over their eyes, that's NO WAY to go through life.

It's been a while since I was last in Enterprise BTW..... used to do business with Enterprise Electronics down there, they make weather radars. Visited them when I was buying one. Been through Dothan a time or 2 on various businesses as well. I'd guess, one reason car prices are wacked around that area, is because of the AFB. Demand exceeding supply.

ezysk

I totally agree that scamming people into buying your car is just plain wrong and anyone that does this has zero room to complain when it happens to them.

As for a 3rd gen needing to be in perfect condition to sell for $3500, is just nuts. I hear lots of forth gen owners say this about 3rd gens, but honestly I have sold many 3rd gens for more than $3500, and they were not in perfect condition and I did not have to lie either. As for a car with a bad motor, well then good luck getting 3500, I say the 1000 – 1500 range is more likely, but who knows, depends on how perfect the body is.

Is it write or wrong to be deceitful and misleading in your sales practices? I say hell yah its wrong, but that is because I have those pesky morals.
But, it appears that the average person that sells cars do not seem to have such moral limitations. I am truly amazed every day how many rust free cars there are that are covered in rust and how many 350s exist that are really 305s and how many people have had their engine rebuilt, but somehow lack zero proof of it.
And please, I know we like to stick to a perfect restoration, but really, replacing all that classic oil and slug and debris that builds up over 20+ years, back on to your newly restored engine is not necessary.. LOL

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

put that **** on craigslist

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Yeup. That's what's wrong with people today. Suck it up and take the hit. Nothing I hate more than some little bitch kid screwing someone over. Be a man. Deal with the hand you're given. Don't pass it off.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

And that would be relevant to what THIS ONE is worth NOW..... how?

Sure, I PAID $9000 for mine, too. But it wasn't 20-some-odd years old at the time, with a bad motor, either.

I find it hard to even imagine a 86 305 car being worth $3500, even if it's factory MINT. Nobody (or at least, VERY few people) cares enough to spend that kind of money on one of those cars, TODAY. I know for sure it wouldn't go for that anywhere I've lived or travelled lately, which is most of the country.

But, in the end, a thing is worth what a buyer agrees to accept, and a seller agrees to pay. ALL OTHER TALK about "worth" is pretty much just idle speculation. Until a transaction occurs, there is no "worth".

In other words, sell the car. What YOU get for YOUR CAR, is now, what it's "worth". What somebody else THINKS you should get, or what they THINK someone else should pay, is mostly monkey-spank, unless they have RECENT comparative transactions to base their opinion on. Opinions without facts are nothing but drivel.

ljnowell

That sums up my one of my favorite phrases "Its only worth what someone will pay for it." Thats the truth.

ezysk

Totally true.

What I was just saying is, that either some people live in great areas in order to get mint conditions cars for $3500.00, or they are totally out of touch with the market.

Sure, I think trying to get $3500 for a car with a bad motor is a bit crazy, unless the rest of the car is pretty much mint and it is has some kind of rare option. But this is just based on the area of the country that I live.

I agree, all is speculation until a car sells, but at least speculation helps someone determine if they have gone off the deep end with their pricing and helps prevent others from wasting time tying to sell something for a price they probably won’t get. It is probably smart to listen to the people that are in your area though for their prices are probably more relevant.

Either way, let us know how it goes. And if the person knows your car has a bad engine and still buys it for $3500, then please do let us know approximately where you live so that I can sell some cars there.

It sucks when we pick up a car and it turns out to have more issues than we thought. But I guess that is in general part of the used car game, you win some and you lose some.
Hopefully your next purchase will be a win for you.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Up in the rust belt a car that has been stored in the winters (no rust) will ALWAYS hold higher value. It's like a rare option. RPO "rust free"

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Would that be, "rust delete"?

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Yeah. I like that. It's a rare factory option in the northern states.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

Especially if you get a car from the south and bring it up and sell it as "southern car no rust" gets more $$$
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Especially if you get a car from the south and bring it up and sell it as "southern car no rust" gets more $$$ "No winters" rust and road salt SUCK!! I knew someone came from the south and when he saw us replacing rotted out brake lines he was like "WTF is all that rust from" we laughed

tpi user

what do u mean dont argue with me about the price thats all u do is but in where no one wants you an then we gotta to your stupid opinions just be quiet an learn something to day sofa like i had to vteach you a couple of basic training issues the other day. guys some one with 7500 posts in three years talks way to much dont pay attn to his nonsense hes an idiot.

RicksIroc86

haha yea ive never had any rust on any of my cars, and why would you "put a car up for the winter" in the north? i dont get that

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

Because winter lasts a VERY long time, and the SALT that the snow plows pour on the road completely DESTROYS cars, rusts the entire underbody out over the years. Not to mention trying to drive a v8 rear wheel drive camaro in the snow is almost impossible.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Because it's possible to drive a rear wheel drive car in the snow and a lot of people don't have the money to own two vehicles. I would never do it, but that's what some people do *shrug*

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

BUFFALO winters are a lot harsher than most of the country, detroit probably the only city that can compare. it CAN be done but your gonna need snow tires on front and tall skinny studded snow tires in the back plus 200 pounds in the trunk I got my WINTER BEATER for 200 BUCKS so even if you are on a budget it can be done. If i had a 305 or V6 car that wasnt in that great of shape anyway or already had rust on it I would drive it in the winter probably too. But if you got a clean rust free camaro dont destroy it by driving it in the winter