cubemaniac

I bought this top end package from Summit.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...end_kits.shtml

The actual part number I bought is 2096.

It says that those parts on a 383 will make 460 dyno proven horsepower. I have a balanced Eagle bottom end with pistons that should bump the compression to about 10.5:1

I have a street avenger 670 fueling it right now.

Now here's the thing, I took it to the track expecting 12s easily out of it, and it ends up running a 14.6@94mph.

The only thing I can think of that might be my problem is the tranny isn't transfering all the power or something, it's a 700r4, or the carb sucks (which it does).

What should I try? I hope to have the thing dynoed here soon.

SpitotRs305

simple problem... edel suck lies....

yes it might be 460 HP on an engine dyno completly stripped

but in a vehical with all of the accesories and auto transmission
figure a loss of about 24-28% of that flywheel HP

so with the right carb you could figure POSSIBLY 380-400HP

start looking at the 700/750 holley carbs

and some new gears for the rear end... 3.42 at least

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

So you bought the E-Tec 200 heads? They're decent but they dont flow as well as advertised out of the box. I'm guessing you have a port mismatch between the heads and the intake manifold. You also didnt mention if you're running headers or stock manifolds and exhaust.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

The carb sucks for one... you're way down on power going by the trap speed. When I first put my 350 in I had expectations like you. It was only running 101-103 mph doing mid 13's now it's doing 114 mph and high 11's after a bunch of little changes to make things work together better.

cubemaniac

I have 4.56s in the back and am running some Hooker shortys.

And even with 460hp at the crank, that should be good for low 12s, right?

A simple horsepower estimator said that with those numbers I probably only have about 260hp.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

460 at the crank I would think should run low low 12's without problems, if everything else is up to snuff. What's the rest of your exhaust system like? What was your 60'? What size stall are you running? Can you borrow a 750 double pumper from a buddy to try? What ignition are you running?

AlkyIROC

The 700R4 is a poor transmission for racing anyway. The spread between 1-2 is too far apart and the rpms drop down too much after the shift.

The Edelbrock package doesn't say it but you should have a converter that stalls 3000 - 3500 rpm for that camshaft. If you're using a stock stall speed, the engine isn't coming into the powerband fast enough and performance is suffering because of it.

cubemaniac

My best 60' has been 2.025.

I am running a stock converter on it and the rest of the exhaust is a 3'' collectors into a 2.5'' y-pipe going to the back and then split into two after the muffler.

AlkyIROC

Change the converter before you do anything else. It's really holding you back.

Batass

[.594/.594 lift- 242ﾰ/240ﾰ duration @ .050) used in EDL SS383

Thats a fairly large cam, higher stall is definitely a must. It will make a huge difference. Also, setting up the carb for that cam will be a bit of work and fine tuning will go a long way. Get rid of that avenger and put a dp 750 on it.

The trans should still give you some decent times, hope its not stock though, it wont last long.

roughskinjrz

that cam, those heads, and that intake should make good power. the carburetor sucks go with a 750DP and 3000 stall minimum.

i had the RPM package. .488/.510 cam, 1.6 pro magnum rockers, edelbrock rpm heads 170cc, rpm air gap intake, 750cfm edelbrock, march pulleys, long tube headers, with 2.5" true dual exhaust with 700r4 built, and 4.10 posi in 7.5" rearend. i cut 2.0 60 ft and ran a best of 12.6 @ 111mph

you should be doing same as me if not better.

ross

New carb 750DP or a HP seires, At least a 3500-4000 converter, Long tube headers make a world of diff. on these cars and a good exhaust no flowmasters stick with a straight thru type such as magnaflows. Whats your total timing and are you shure your ballincer is indiexed right?Also do you have enough fuel pressure ?

impaled

not having the higher stall is what is really killing you. the 670 CFM carb seems a bit small to me.

if you go to the top right of the holley page ( http://holley.com/ ) there is an interactive carb selecter, that should at least put you in the right direction.

what suspension mods do you have? remember any time spinning is lost time. suspension would definitely not be a bad investment.

squeeezer

a 750 double pumper minimum for drag race duty!!!!!!!
get good lower control arms (dont have to pay much=ebay) and do lower control arm relocation brakets!!!!! put an air lift airbag inside your right rear spring these 3 items took .2 off of my 60 foot

i have a 452 horse @6100
427tq at 4800
355 9.77 to 1 comp
700r4 manual valve body 3000 stall (i only get about 2700)
and i run 12.29 @112mph with a 1.77 60 foot

bjankuski

That combination of parts should run easy 12's as is with the 670 carb. Your trap speed is way down from where I would expect, you are not making anywhere near the 460 HP you were hoping for. Assuming your transmission is not slipping I would check your timing at WOT, it should be between 34 and 36 degrees. If your timing is good and you are not missing I would check to make sure your cam is installed correctly. The stock torque convertor will hurt your ET but it will not have a large influence on your MPH in the quarter. I would expect to see 110 plus MPH in the quarter with that combination.

cubemaniac

That's exactly what I was thinking, that I should be able to run easy 12s in the quarter. I was sorely disappointed when it ran the 14.6.

Batass

Did it run like a dog off the line, then scream at high rpms? Then dog again when it shifted? 2 seconds off is pretty serious.

cubemaniac

It dogs pretty bad off the line, I'm pretty sure that just the carb, which I've been thinking about getting a new one since I started this engine. It shifts pretty hard going into 2nd then you can't hardly tell its shifting into the other gears.

SpitotRs305

have you modified the trans to 3/4 shift at WOT?

as the math says you would be turning about 5600rpms at 94mph in 3rd probably a bit more... not taking into account your converter...

start with a new converter then go from there

how many runs did you make

85blownLt1

iTrader: (1)

A 750 DP carb and a 3200 to 3500 stall converter wil get you in the high to mid 12's. You should do some suspension work and get some wide slicks and you will run low 12's.

cubemaniac

Just a stall will make up almost 2 seconds?
The tranny is completely stock, out of a 1993 Buick Roadmaster wagon

I only actually made 1 quarter mile pass, I had to talk the track owner into letting me run once after all the actual racing was done. The rest were all 1/8 mile time trial passes. I actually just found the slips from May. Bolded is my first run ever.


R/T
.466, .414, .134, .430

60'
2.025, 2.832, 2.285, 2.041

330
6.033, 7.000, 6.281, 5.968

1/8
9.281, 10.339, 9.509, 9.241

MPH
76.32, 74.52, 76.49, 75.26

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

its not stall... even stock stall should have that car trapping much higher than 94

yes the converter is holding him back alot but come on, does having 3000 stall give him 15 more mph that he's missing and 2 seconds??? No i dont think so, that seems too much to gain. 383 should have ample power from idle to 5500 rpms with that cam/head setup

its in the tune. that combo should be good enough for the power, it just needs tuned up. New carb probly

how heavy is the car?

cubemaniac

Not sure on an actual number, but it'd be slightly ligher than a stock '86 IROC

SpitotRs305

no your right i dont see a new stall gaining that much... it will help with the 60' potential....i mean with 4.56 gears i would think the 60' would be much lower if he had traction

do you know if your secondarys are opening properly?

have you made any adjustments to that carb?
or to timing?

cubemaniac

You know, I've never been too sure about this carb, even since I've had it uptop a 355. I wanted to get something with mechanical secondaries, for a while now.

As for the timing, I can't recall a specific number right now, but I know it was set to whatever the Edelbrock package said.

I've been thinking now for a while to just go ahead and get a stall and a racier transmission. Even before this engine was started.

Tom 400 CFI

I agree, completely. The worst converter and gears in the world, on a proper running 383 would result in terrible 60' times, but you'd still trap over 110 with 400+ hp. Even w/good gear, you're getting neither a good 60 nor good )or even close to decent) trap. Trap tells you everything about hp and your trap is telling me that you're making about 250 hp. I used to trap 95 w/a 305 Crossfire that had headers...and that's it. So something is WAY out of whack.

What tuning measures have you taken, thus far? Plug reads? Timing checks? These are very important, basic checks and can make a HUGE difference. Though I hate the Edelbrock carb, that isn't your problem either. You need to tell us what your timing is, and what your plugs are telling you.

Lastly is your driving. This isn't your primary problem either, b/c a terrible driver w/400+ hp will still trap over 110. But you posted reation time. FORGET about reaction time! It doesn't matter. your time starts when your front wheels clear the second light. Forget reaction time, and launch your car, when YOU are ready, and the car is ready. "Use" your concentration on launching, not R/T'ing.

You can turn that carb into a Mechanical secondary carb by removing that goofy counterweighted "drawbridge" flapper door on the secondary side. You'll need to max out your accelerator pump shot to accomodate the lack of the "flapper door", but I did this to an Edelbrock 750 CFM carb I had on a 350, and I swear, I picked up 20 hp from just that mod alone. That mechanism sucks.

cubemaniac

How big of a stall should I go?

zippy

The 4.56 gear is excessive unless you're running a very tall tire. With that cam you're going to want to run at least a 3,000 stall and I'd look into a 4.10 gear. Judging by what you're running I'd say you have an issue with timing and fuel. If you're running E-Tec heads remember that they don't need as much ignition advance as normal old style sbc heads. Put a wideband on that thing and get the fuel/spark timing dialed in. Even with a stock converter and a 2.73 gear you should be faster than that.

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

if you dont have subframe connectors guess where your power is going

your car is doing the twist.

all the power is going somewhere but not to the rear wheels

your rear control arms will also twist if they are stock

all leading to power loss

your springs and shocks also have alot to do with this

people think all they have to do is make good power at the crank to run good numbers

FALSE

oh yeah- dont forget what everyone else is telling you

converter, 3 series posi, carburator

Batass

That will affect your ET and 60ft, but hardly mph. Mph indicates power, and he's short.

zippy

Exactly. Guys have ran in the 10's and 11's without subframe connectors and on stock control arms. They are better to have, but not required for a good time. If you like to be able to open and close the doors properly you do subframe connectors, not for the time gained. He's running slower than a stock LT1 F-Body and those are only 275-285hp. At this point he's not really making enough power to even twist the body.

cubemaniac

But I should be, that's the problem. I have an 800cfm double pumper that should be here today, if not tomorrow. I'll update when it gets here.

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

John Force+unibody=pretzel

Batass

I like popsicles when its hot outside.

zippy

Since when is a 14.6 in the quarter a John Force reference? Newer Camaro's run that in stock form with a bad driver and bad weather.

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

a person who brings a stock camaro to the drag strip is there with his mama

NY87Iroc

iTrader: (1)

Your going to need a bigger converter for sure!!. That cam is alittle big to me, what does the cam card say for rpm?? Make sure its timed right and I would at least get some 4.10s, but all this is just my 2 cents.

zippy

Intersting, just how fast is your car???

NY87Iroc

iTrader: (1)

Are you asking me?? If you are my car has run a best of 10.30 with a bad 60ft time. should be in the nines with the new motor,,,why do you ask???

Batass

No I believe hes talking about jamon.

Considering tpi, a 700r4, and 3.56 gears? No times posted, so he must not be too proud. Mama? WTH are you talking about, does your mom drive your car?

NY87Iroc

iTrader: (1)

oh ok...thanks!! I see now...

HawkHunter

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rjt76

Umm probably you should do some more learning on the topic before posting ignorant statements. That carb has nothing to do with vacuum advance. Either carb will provide vacuum advance. When you step on the throttle the vacuum goes away and so does the "vacuum" advance to prevent spark knock. But while high vacuum cruising it is advanced for fuel economy. Distributors are advanced mechanically by weights and springs. sometimes distributors are mechanically locked at a fixed value say 34 degrees for a drag race type of car.

Vacuum acessories will work equally as well with either carb. Its the engine setup from the ground up that causes low idle vacuum. Or sometimes an individual will get overly aggressive in camshaft selection with alot of overlap and cause issues with vacuum. This kit may actually have low idle vacuum but thats not his problem. Its missing some serious hp from a lack of a correct ignition curve, or a fuel problem, camshaft issues, some research needs to be done.

cubemaniac

Since from now to then I have replaced the stock distributor with a pro comp racing distributer that is good up to at least 9000 rpm and an 800 cfm dp.

Both have made a noticable difference. Stall is next though./.

I was going to take it to the drag strip last night but they closed the track due to rain. Maybe this Saturday or next wednesday.

zippy

How much timing are you running?

cubemaniac

32 degrees @ 3000rpm

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

stock 305 heads

stock intake

stock runners

I would like to see someone with that pull up next to me with a cam under 500 lift and see if they know how to put one together to beat me

NY87Iroc

iTrader: (1)

Batass

I dont think thats the answer to the question.

Well post some times hotshot. Respectfully, I know your no slouch. Biggest question to that combo is what cr and fuel?

zippy

I still don't see any times there. I can post times of my stuff.