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The Summit carb looks like a rebranded Holley 4010. Holley produced these about 10 (?) years ago however the styling never caught on. The removable top makes jet changes a breeze however access to the power valve is limited because the carb has to be removed to change it ( although that's generally a one time deal ).
My 4010 worked flawlessly. The annualar discharge boosters contribute to excellent drivability around town. The rest of the carb takes conventional Holley jets/power valves etc. 600 cfm was ideal for my combo.
That being said, I've since moved on to a conventional Holley carb (model 4150 style). I have to say I like the traditional appearance over the 4010/Summit. I also understand the high speed air bleed/power valve/idle air bleed circuits of the 4150 which comes in handy when you get down to the real carb tuning.
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Last edited by skinny z; 03-20-2009 at 09:54 AM.
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I took my heads to the machine shop to get looked at and they showed me and informed me that i already have the positive style valve seals. They said i'm already good to go, it has some type of a spring on top of the seal to tighten the grip around the valve it looks like. (he showed me some brand new ones)
(my valve seals look like the ones on the right/ they look close anyways) lol
Its also a generic pic i found on yahoo lol
__________________ 1989 Camaro IROC-Z
Vortec 357/.040" over Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, scat forged connecting rods with ARP bolts, XE274 cam, Vortec heads, Hedman Longtube headers, T-56 Swap/Mcleod Clutch ,Holley 600cfm 4bbl Carb, Open Element w/ K&N filter,3.23 4th Gen Rear, ARP main bolts, Fully balanced.
you need to hook up a return to the secound outlet it should say return somewhere... you dont want to just plug it as it will greatly shorten the life of the pump
Also i'm confused though, it says the style i put up is a "Non-Return" and i looked and there are ones that are specified to be "return" FPR. Does that mean i need a return one?
Also i'm confused though, it says the style i put up is a "Non-Return" and i looked and there are ones that are specified to be "return" FPR. Does that mean i need a return one?
Yes, you need a return-style FPR if you are using the stock TPI fuel pump. The one you linked from Summit will not work. If it doesn't leak, you'll end up burning up your fuel pump because it will be trying to feed too much fuel and the backpressure generated will force it to overwork itself. For my V8 swap, I'll be using a Mallory 4309 AFPR. It has a return on it, and was recommended by several members for V8 FI to carb swaps.
I got mine on Ebay for about 1/4 of that price. You'll need to plug 2 of the outlets, you can pick up the plugs at the local hardware store/Lowes/Home Depot as was stated before. Check the brass plugs in the plumbing section.
Your block looks very similiar in condition to mine. I still have the crosshatching on the walls, no ridge on top with just a little carbon ring. I lucked out and don't have to do anything but clean it up. The cylinders are still well within spec on roundness and taper. What does your crank look like? Mine needs turned, engine lost oil and spun a bearing.
I'll be using a Holley 650 model 4150 on mine with the stock dished pistons and ported 305 heads with a 58cc chamber. Should get me close to 9.0-9.5:1 static compression.
I haven't yet i was hoping to just machine the heads and not have to worry about buying such pricey valve springs but i think i might anyways as this whole cutting the valve guides thing is confusing....
those should work, some people run that cam with stock springs, but thats a gamble i wouldnt take. the valve guide cutting alows you to gain more valve lift. the stock guide height interfears with the rockers with any cam over .410 lift i think. cutting them down and changing to different stem seals lets you put a bigger cam in.
those should work, some people run that cam with stock springs, but thats a gamble i wouldnt take. the valve guide cutting alows you to gain more valve lift. the stock guide height interfears with the rockers with any cam over .410 lift i think. cutting them down and changing to different stem seals lets you put a bigger cam in.
Well just my luck again.... The guy at the machine shop just told me i have a crack in one of my cylinder heads.... WTF! This is not in the budget! where can i find a cheap vortec head?
that sux, not uncommon tho. i got a set of bare heads, they are 194's swirel ports. center bolts. i havent had them checked for cracks yet. and with shipping and all, u would prolly be better off finding some locally. but if your interested i could drop them by the machine shop and have them checked. if there good, ill take $40 plus shipping
that sux, not uncommon tho. i got a set of bare heads, they are 194's swirel ports. center bolts. i havent had them checked for cracks yet. and with shipping and all, u would prolly be better off finding some locally. but if your interested i could drop them by the machine shop and have them checked. if there good, ill take $40 plus shipping
Well i only want vortecs, i have the original swirlports. They are just so terrible i don't want to use them lol
Ok here's an update after a freakin long time of not posting about my progress. The machine shop got all the work done thy had to do, i am putting the motor together now, the rotating assembly is in, the heads/rockers are on, flexplate,rear main seal, and the camshaft is in.
Well i am put back more time now..... I had the transmission on stands installing the shift kit and it decided to fall just as i put in the last pan bolt, and it had just turned 12 AM on my birthday! I remember seeing it was fine on the stand as well too..... That figures, i have such terrible luck, it broke off part of the bellhousing that had a bolt hole in it... so that's just a boat anchor now.... I am thinking i'll do the T-56 swap now then....
__________________ 1989 Camaro IROC-Z
Vortec 357/.040" over Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, scat forged connecting rods with ARP bolts, XE274 cam, Vortec heads, Hedman Longtube headers, T-56 Swap/Mcleod Clutch ,Holley 600cfm 4bbl Carb, Open Element w/ K&N filter,3.23 4th Gen Rear, ARP main bolts, Fully balanced.
i cant see pics at work so i donno if u have any up or not, u should try and thumbnail them, the page will load a million times faster too.
anyways you can have it welded back together if its not half the bellhousing. hey BTW, what happend with the cracked head?
Last edited by iroc a 86 berli; 04-21-2009 at 09:52 AM.
i cant see pics at work so i donno if u have any up or not, u should try and thumbnail them, the page will load a million times faster too.
anyways you can have it welded back together if its not half the bellhousing. hey BTW, what happend with the cracked head?
I went to a junkyard and pulled a head off a express van with the 350 vortec, the machine guy cleaned em, gave them a valve job and gave em back. I got everything back for about 600 bucks. Block, and heads.
Here's another pic of my progress... its been slow, i've been collecting parts for my T-56 swap.... I got the Tranny (80,000) miles on it, 12,000 mile clutch, slave cylinder and line, bellhousing, and B&M Shifter for $1200. I think i did pretty good. I'll have more pics of that swap soon enough...
__________________ 1989 Camaro IROC-Z
Vortec 357/.040" over Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, scat forged connecting rods with ARP bolts, XE274 cam, Vortec heads, Hedman Longtube headers, T-56 Swap/Mcleod Clutch ,Holley 600cfm 4bbl Carb, Open Element w/ K&N filter,3.23 4th Gen Rear, ARP main bolts, Fully balanced.
Bringing my old thread back to life here... I got the T-56 in and the clutch and pedals all hooked up, tomorrow i'm going to be hooking everything up the rest of the way and start breaking the motor in. Here's a pic of the shifter and the free shift knob i'm going to be using till i order a nice one....
__________________ 1989 Camaro IROC-Z
Vortec 357/.040" over Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, scat forged connecting rods with ARP bolts, XE274 cam, Vortec heads, Hedman Longtube headers, T-56 Swap/Mcleod Clutch ,Holley 600cfm 4bbl Carb, Open Element w/ K&N filter,3.23 4th Gen Rear, ARP main bolts, Fully balanced.
Lookin good dude. Hopefully this time your motor will problem free for a long time unlike your luck in the past. It's starting to look like it always should have, and a far ways away from when I took the first pic of it for ya, lol.
If you're going cams, compcams are the only way to go. But remember the bigger you go the more you'll be feeding the monster in gas. you get a larger size cam and you could take what can get 10 to 12 ish mpg city to like 5 or less. If this is a performance car, hell go as big as your current set up can allow, but if its just a suped up grocery getter for around town, a milder cam would suit you.
If you're going cams, compcams are the only way to go. But remember the bigger you go the more you'll be feeding the monster in gas. you get a larger size cam and you could take what can get 10 to 12 ish mpg city to like 5 or less. If this is a performance car, hell go as big as your current set up can allow, but if its just a suped up grocery getter for around town, a milder cam would suit you.
just my input
sniper
Its runnin an XE274 comp cams cam..... Nice power, nice lope, but not too much cam.... Nice cam all around...
I got her together and running.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xEzbJqNcj8
Sounds like crap in the garage but at least its something, i plan on taking her for a drive today....
__________________ 1989 Camaro IROC-Z
Vortec 357/.040" over Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, scat forged connecting rods with ARP bolts, XE274 cam, Vortec heads, Hedman Longtube headers, T-56 Swap/Mcleod Clutch ,Holley 600cfm 4bbl Carb, Open Element w/ K&N filter,3.23 4th Gen Rear, ARP main bolts, Fully balanced.
Well i took her for a drive the other day, and there is NO power down low... NOTHING... i can barely get out of my driveway.... it picks up better around 2500rpm+... any ideas what it could be? its hard as hell to start sometimes too.....
__________________ 1989 Camaro IROC-Z
Vortec 357/.040" over Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, scat forged connecting rods with ARP bolts, XE274 cam, Vortec heads, Hedman Longtube headers, T-56 Swap/Mcleod Clutch ,Holley 600cfm 4bbl Carb, Open Element w/ K&N filter,3.23 4th Gen Rear, ARP main bolts, Fully balanced.
check your valve lash, timing (how much advance are u running?) and carb. your running an edelbroke right? any sputtering? backfireing?
Well i figured out my problem so far its A LOT better, the car wouldn't idle down without dieing out so i timed the engine around 1000 rpm (idk why) but i looked at it the other day and it was retarded like 12 degrees at 700 rpm!!! (got it to idle down) and now i advanced it quite a bit to 0 and its A LOT better! It has a lot more power and it has power down low and up top! AWESOME!! But anyways i'm around 4 degrees advanced at idle now and i'm thinking i want to go a little more... Also i'm running about 5 psi on the fuel press gauge. Sound about right? The car runs great so far, Very pleased, just gotta break her in then take her to the track and see how she does
wow dude, with your combo, id be running at least 10deg btc base timing. what distibuter do you have? i used to run around 15 btc on a mild 355 with half ur mods. but i had the heavy mech advance springs in the dizzy.
throw a vacum gauge on your manifold, tweak your dizy till you get the most vac at idle. that is a good starting point for timing.
while timing the engine, be sure to un hook the vac advance too!
oh, and the track is the best place to break an engine in, change the oil after 40 mins of run time, then beat the pis out of it! trust me, it will seat the rings better. the old way doesnt yield the performance nor does it save any damage to the enternals. it has been proven.
Last edited by iroc a 86 berli; 05-30-2009 at 03:37 AM.
[quote=v10viper04;4174042]But anyways i'm around 4 degrees advanced at idle now and i'm thinking i want to go a little more... QUOTE]
I running 16 BTDC with mechanical limited to 18. And vacuum advance as well. The Vortecs seem to like total timing around 34 ( PLUS vacuum advance ). Great throttle response and excellent mileage.
But anyways i'm around 4 degrees advanced at idle now and i'm thinking i want to go a little more... QUOTE]
I running 16 BTDC with mechanical limited to 18. And vacuum advance as well. The Vortecs seem to like total timing around 34 ( PLUS vacuum advance ). Great throttle response and excellent mileage.
Yea i'm just messing with base timing right now... idk how the mess with the vacuum advance.... I'm new to vacuum advance and carbs....
Well i drove the car the other day and it started ticking, pulled the valve cover off and the rocker arm is off the valve. The pushrod is bent also i realized.... they are 5/16" hardened steel pushrods from edelbrock.... I am going to get Chromoly ones soon.... But i was told my pushrod length is off. Any ideas? ALso do i need to change anythnig if i go with 1.6 roller rockers... i have roller rockers on it now but not the aluminum ones.... Stamped steel rockers i have right now. Any ideas?
__________________ 1989 Camaro IROC-Z
Vortec 357/.040" over Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, scat forged connecting rods with ARP bolts, XE274 cam, Vortec heads, Hedman Longtube headers, T-56 Swap/Mcleod Clutch ,Holley 600cfm 4bbl Carb, Open Element w/ K&N filter,3.23 4th Gen Rear, ARP main bolts, Fully balanced.
I let her loose tonight and i realized she seems to start to run rough around 4500-5000rpms and then smoothes back out around 5600rpms and runs nice till over 6000rpms.. It also seems to have less power during those rpms..... on the G-Tech meter thing that has proven to be quite accurate. Anyways first quick run i did i trapped 90 mph.. and the second run i trapped 95.6 mph... Plus i'm not done tuning her but i'm not sure exactly what else i can do haha. I am running heavy vaccum advance springs with 10 degrees of base timing at 5 psi fuel pressure.... Anybody know what can be a better setup? I am running a terrible exhaust (the flowtech shorty headers/y-pipe into a 3" catback) but i don't think it can kill it THAT much.... any opinions are well appreciated...... Thanks!
__________________ 1989 Camaro IROC-Z
Vortec 357/.040" over Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, scat forged connecting rods with ARP bolts, XE274 cam, Vortec heads, Hedman Longtube headers, T-56 Swap/Mcleod Clutch ,Holley 600cfm 4bbl Carb, Open Element w/ K&N filter,3.23 4th Gen Rear, ARP main bolts, Fully balanced.
Last edited by v10viper04; 06-26-2009 at 02:17 AM.
start to run rough around 4500-5000rpms and then smoothes back out around 5600rpms and runs nice till over 6000rpms.. It also seems to have less power during those rpms.....
Are you running the stock valve springs on the Vortecs?
I don't have much info as to what is wrong but i can tell you it's more then likely not the exhaust. If anything having a smaller tube setup would help the bottom end, giving you more torque sooner. With that said you would probably free up 20-30fwhp at the peak of the curve going with long tubes and true duals. DesktopDyno predicts your setup making 380fwhp with a restrictive exhaust and 0 timing.
That trap is way too low, I'd guess you are putting down 250hp to the ground with that speed.
Something is wrong. Did you break the cam in right? Have you set the valve lash? What fuel pump?
Sorry i didn't read the whole thread, just bringing up some obvious things to check.
What bent the pushrod? That's not a good situation and could be a clue as to what may be wrong. Considering your upgraded valve train it's not likely htat there's any valve float (as in my case with the old Vortec springs).
If it's laying down at any given RPM, I'm looking at the air fuel ratio. I can't tell from the pics. Which carb did you eventually get?
What bent the pushrod? That's not a good situation and could be a clue as to what may be wrong. Considering your upgraded valve train it's not likely htat there's any valve float (as in my case with the old Vortec springs).
If it's laying down at any given RPM, I'm looking at the air fuel ratio. I can't tell from the pics. Which carb did you eventually get?
I am running a Holley 600 with vacuum secondaries. Also the pushrod bent b/c the roller rocker fell off the valve and was pushing the retainer i believe.... The ONLY one i have had a problem with..... Since then i have switched the one rocker back to the OEM style... Whats a good combo for base timing and vacuum advance? Which springs should i run in the dizzy? Thanks
With access to a dial back timing light OR a fully degreed harmonic balancer and an accurate tach you can build a suitable timing curve based on some fundamentals.
The Vortecs like about 34 degrees total advance (don't consider vacuum advance at this point). Check the timing at idle and then advance the rpms and observe how much the timing advances via the timing tabs/degree tape. You should note how much mechanical advance is available in your particular distributor (typically 20 to 22 degrees in an OEM HEI or aftermarket replacement). Once that is determined set the initial timing to whatever gives you 34*. If your distributor has 22 of mechanical advance then it's a safe bet to set your initial at 12 BTDC. You will also want to ensure that the timing is "all in" by about 3000 rpm. That is where the lighter springs/heavier weights come into play. You should be able to use to use the dial back timing light or timing tape (if your balancer is equipped that way) to see when and by how much the timing is being advanced.
There are plenty of articles on the web that get into more detail than can be explained here however this should be a primer on what you need to do.
Then there's the issue of tuning those vacuum secondaries on your Holley.
With access to a dial back timing light OR a fully degreed harmonic balancer and an accurate tach you can build a suitable timing curve based on some fundamentals.
The Vortecs like about 34 degrees total advance (don't consider vacuum advance at this point). Check the timing at idle and then advance the rpms and observe how much the timing advances via the timing tabs/degree tape. You should note how much mechanical advance is available in your particular distributor (typically 20 to 22 degrees in an OEM HEI or aftermarket replacement). Once that is determined set the initial timing to whatever gives you 34*. If your distributor has 22 of mechanical advance then it's a safe bet to set your initial at 12 BTDC. You will also want to ensure that the timing is "all in" by about 3000 rpm. That is where the lighter springs/heavier weights come into play. You should be able to use to use the dial back timing light or timing tape (if your balancer is equipped that way) to see when and by how much the timing is being advanced.
There are plenty of articles on the web that get into more detail than can be explained here however this should be a primer on what you need to do.
Then there's the issue of tuning those vacuum secondaries on your Holley.
How can you see 22 degrees of advanced timing? My timing tab only goes to 16 BTDC i believe.......
thats what the tape on the dampner is for , or a dial back timing gun. with the gun you just turn the dial to 20 deg, and it should be at zero on the dampner. with the tape method, u tape it from the tdc mark and degree it with your tab.
thats what the tape on the dampner is for , or a dial back timing gun. with the gun you just turn the dial to 20 deg, and it should be at zero on the dampner. with the tape method, u tape it from the tdc mark and degree it with your tab.
Exactly.
With a dial back timing light and a good tach you can build your own distributor machine to set up an excellent timing curve.
