Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > Tech / General Engine
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

Tech / General Engine Is your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!

Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-20-2009, 04:34 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 2
Car: 1991 RS Convertible

Classifieds Rating: (0)
FAILED EMISSIONS FOR HIGH HC AND CO, PLEASE HELP

My HC was 297 (limit 100) and my CO% was 4.83 (limit 0.50). What could cause this? My car is a 1991 Camaro with a 3.1 V6 auto and 161K miles.
__________________
Mike H.
- '91 RS Convertible
mikenj73 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 03:10 PM   #2
Junior Member
 
MightyFirebirdG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 6
Car: Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.1l V6 MPFI
Transmission: Automatic THM700R4

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: FAILED EMISSIONS FOR HIGH HC AND CO, PLEASE HELP

Hi,
i have a similar situation with my 1990 Firebird (v6 automatic)

At idle the readings are perfect:
@720 rpm, CO% is 0.023 (limit 0.50)

but at elevated idle, the CO% readings are extremely high:
@2800 rpm, CO% is 3.350 (limit 0.30)

So, my engine is running rich at 2800 rpm, but not at idle?!
The engine runs fine. However, the idle is maybe a little bit rough.

I did a little TunerPro-Session:
@idle the oxygen-sensor produces a 0.2V - 0.9V - 0.2V - ... signal (maybe a little slow).
As soon as i rev the engine to approx. 2000 rpm and above the oxygen-sensor gets stuck at 0.9V until i let the rpm drop again.

Distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs and wires are new (less than 1,500 miles i guess).
The Exhaust is new too, except for the catalytic converter.
The oxygen sensor was replaced a few months ago.
Engine oil was changed and i checked the ignition timing.

I could really need some advice here. Thanks!

Last edited by MightyFirebirdG; 09-01-2011 at 03:45 PM.
MightyFirebirdG is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2011, 10:18 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: DE
Posts: 536
Car: 1990 Firebird Formula

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: FAILED EMISSIONS FOR HIGH HC AND CO, PLEASE HELP

Air filter? How is it. Definitely start at the cheap and easy problems.

I failed BAD eight times since march. The car has run terribly rich since I bought it in 09. I did my heads but I also did injectors while they were off and BAM. Passed. It's worth checking the injectors.

Also check the converter. The inlet temp. should be lower than the outlet temp.
Mr Froman is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2011, 09:02 AM   #4
Junior Member
 
MightyFirebirdG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 6
Car: Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.1l V6 MPFI
Transmission: Automatic THM700R4

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: FAILED EMISSIONS FOR HIGH HC AND CO, PLEASE HELP

The air-filter isn't that old, but i'll check it. thanks.

I'll check the injectors as soon as i get a set of plenum gaskets. The Haynes says the injectors should have a resistance of 11 to 14 ohms. Did you mean to check the resistance or is there another method to test if the injectors are good?

What do you mean by
Quote:
Also check the converter. The inlet temp. should be lower than the outlet temp.
How can i check the inlet and outlet temperature?


What i'm wondering about is, how the CO% can be perfect at idle, but excessively high at 2500rpm.

I just took a look at my TunerPro Log, and something is weird (to me, because i'm not really a diagnostic guru ).
The BLM and INT should be really low, when the o2-sensor reports a rich mixture, because the ECM cuts back the fuel supply, right?
Well, the log says, that while the o2-sensor reports a rich mixture (950mV to 1000mV), the INT is always between 122 and 128, and the BLM toggles between 116 and 102 !?

Can this be normal?

Edit:
Just checked some things (maybe not related with the problem).
- the air filter looks fine, almost like new,
- the EVAP purge valve seems to work (can't suck on the purge outlet with ignition on),
- the MAT resistance fits the ambient temp.,
- the Throttle Body could use some cleaning,
- I checked the resistance of the EGR => 2x 25 Ohm BUT 1x 13.7 Ohm
As i understand it the EGR is to lower NOx concentration, but could a defective EGR have damaged my ECM?

So long and thanks again!

P.S. I hope my English isn't too bad.

Last edited by MightyFirebirdG; 09-03-2011 at 01:42 PM. Reason: checked some things out
MightyFirebirdG is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2011, 01:22 PM   #5
Junior Member
 
MightyFirebirdG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 6
Car: Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 3.1l V6 MPFI
Transmission: Automatic THM700R4

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: FAILED EMISSIONS FOR HIGH HC AND CO, PLEASE HELP

OK, first some theory, why my engine would run rich:

In open loop the ECM depends on 5 sensors:
CTS, IAT, TPS, MAP, Oxygen
Except for the Oxygen Sensor i can definitely rule out the rest of the Sensors (checked them).

A too rich A/F-ratio is caused by:
1. insufficient air supply because of a clogged air filter
==> check filter, looks like new
2. too much fuel
2a fuel pressure too high
2b defective injector(s)

Additional parts involved:
- Catalytic Converter
==> since the O2 reports a rich a/f-ratio and the emissions @idle are perfect i tend to rule out the converter
- A.I.R.
==> i'm not completely sure, how it works on a 3.1l V6, but as i understand it, the A.I.R. is only active during cold start. That means there is no difference whether the engine is at idle or 2500rpm.

Did I miss anything?


Well i wanted to get my fuel pressure tested, but apparently no repair shop here (in Germany) is able to do that


So, back to my considerations from above, the most likely causes for my problem are:
fuel pressure regulator, fuel injectors, O2-Sensor

South Bay Fuel Injectors offers these re manufactured injectors:
http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com...8_3.1_TPi.html
Are they any good? I think i read somewhere, that those are Bosch 2's. Is there any difference between Bosch 2's and Bosch 3's, respectively a reason to prefer Bosch 3's over Bosch 2's?
For a price like this, i'm seriously thinking about replacing mine anyway, since they are most likely the original ones and in there for 125,000 mls.


I really appreciate the help of this board! Thank you!

Last edited by MightyFirebirdG; 09-05-2011 at 04:07 PM.
MightyFirebirdG is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2011, 01:22 PM
ThirdGen
1992 Camaro




Paid Advertisement


Reply

Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > Tech / General Engine

Tags
1988, 1991, 1992, 91, camaro, camoro, correct, emission, emissions, failed, failing, failure, firebird, hc, high
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


1982 Camaro '82 || 1983 Camaro '83 || 1984 Camaro '84 || 1985 Camaro '85 || 1986 Camaro '86 || 1987 Camaro '87 || 1988 Camaro '88 || 1989 Camaro '89 || 1990 Camaro '90 || 1991 Camaro '91 || 1992 Camaro '92


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright © 1997 - 2012 ThirdGen.org. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced without the expressed, documented, and written consent of ThirdGen.org's Administrators.

Emails & Contact Details