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I've got an 89 TBI Firebird AT. I had asked a question about a broken seal on the harmonic balancer of my 89 Corvette, and was told the harmonic balancer needed to be replaced, and that it could explode.
I checked the harmonic balancer out on the Firebird, and half of the rubber seal was missing. So, does it really need to be replaced? I figured the reason the rubber seal has chunks missing is from age and the heat. Or does that mean something is going bad inside the harmonic balancer?
Oh, and I was reading that when you replace the harmonic balancer, that you should also replace the timing chain cover seal. It was said the cover didn't need to be removed?
Here's pics:
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As the rubber gets more and more worn down, it will eventually break down completely and cause problems for you, I'd replace it in the near future.
You can get a good OE style replacement from Summit in the $50-80 range, price goes up from there depending on what you want.
It's a good idea to change the seal at the same time, they are cheap enough to replace, and no you don't have to pull the timing cover off to change it.
__________________ The best way to judge someone's character is to watch how they treat a person that can do absolutely nothing for them.
As the rubber gets more and more worn down, it will eventually break down completely and cause problems for you, I'd replace it in the near future.
You can get a good OE style replacement from Summit in the $50-80 range, price goes up from there depending on what you want.
It's a good idea to change the seal at the same time, they are cheap enough to replace, and no you don't have to pull the timing cover off to change it.
Are the ones at Autozone or Advance any good? Dorman and then Pioneer.
And do you have a pic of the seal? I've looked it up and see pics of different things.
I'm guessing what I need is the harmonic balancer, the puller, then installer, and the seal? I think I've read of people putting lub on the "key" part I guess you call it.
I'm wondering if this could be causing me an idle problem. For at least 5 years now. When the car is at idle, sometimes I get an engine vibration that is very brief. Almost like a miss every so often. When it does it, sometimes the RPM's go down a little then jump back up where it is supposed to be, but it is very fast. Less than a second. Today, I'm gonna go out, pull the belt and see if I can get any play. Then I'll put the belt back on, start it and see if the crank pulley wabbles any.
It almost sounds as if someone was choking the engine every so often, but for a split second. I never have been able to figure out what it was. Though, I don't have any problems driving around, just at idle. I have already replaced the plugs, cap, rotor, O2 sensor, and wires a couple of times. New fuel filter, air filter, cleaned the IAC again. I get no codes.
Are the ones at Autozone or Advance any good? Dorman and then Pioneer.
And do you have a pic of the seal? I've looked it up and see pics of different things.
I'm guessing what I need is the harmonic balancer, the puller, then installer, and the seal? I think I've read of people putting lub on the "key" part I guess you call it.
I'm wondering if this could be causing me an idle problem. For at least 5 years now. When the car is at idle, sometimes I get an engine vibration that is very brief. Almost like a miss every so often. When it does it, sometimes the RPM's go down a little then jump back up where it is supposed to be, but it is very fast. Less than a second. Today, I'm gonna go out, pull the belt and see if I can get any play. Then I'll put the belt back on, start it and see if the crank pulley wabbles any.
It almost sounds as if someone was choking the engine every so often, but for a split second. I never have been able to figure out what it was. Though, I don't have any problems driving around, just at idle. I have already replaced the plugs, cap, rotor, O2 sensor, and wires a couple of times. New fuel filter, air filter, cleaned the IAC again. I get no codes.
Dorman and Pioneer are two of the brands that Summit carries. Looking at Auto Zone's website, the prices are pretty comparable.
You've got your parts/tools right, but you'll also want to get a torque wrench and some medium strength loc-tite (blue color). You'll need to remove your pulley, then using the puller tool remove the balancer. You can use a screwdriver to pry the old seal out, but be careful here, too much force and you can cause damage to your timing cover.
I wouldn't recommend putting any type of lube on the crankshaft snout, maybe a little bit in the balancer slot where the woodruff key will align, but that's it. Balancers need a snug press fit in order to stay in place.
A lot of people believe the woodruff key is used to keep the balancer from spinning, that's not the case. The key is there for alignment purposes. I recently had an issue with a balancer that sheared a woodruff key.
What keeps the balancer tight are two things: The press fit between its inside diameter and the crank snout's outside diameter, and a properly torqued balancer retaining bolt (usually 65 ft-lbs for this bolt).
If the balancer is a lot more worn than the pictures show, then yes you could be getting a vibration issue, but I doubt it's worn to that point yet. I'd be looking at your motor mounts as well.
If you remove the belt, you shouldn't be feeling any play on the crank drive pulley caused by worn rubber on the balancer. Depending on how bad the rubber is again, you could feel play on the balancer's outer area against its inner area.
As far as your idle issue, you could have a bad plug wire again (I've had brand new defective wires), or you could have a small break in your ignition wire somewhere. How severe is the stumble when it happens? Is it barely noticeable, or do you definitely recognize it?
Dorman and Pioneer are two of the brands that Summit carries. Looking at Auto Zone's website, the prices are pretty comparable.
You've got your parts/tools right, but you'll also want to get a torque wrench and some medium strength loc-tite (blue color). You'll need to remove your pulley, then using the puller tool remove the balancer. You can use a screwdriver to pry the old seal out, but be careful here, too much force and you can cause damage to your timing cover.
I wouldn't recommend putting any type of lube on the crankshaft snout, maybe a little bit in the balancer slot where the woodruff key will align, but that's it. Balancers need a snug press fit in order to stay in place.
A lot of people believe the woodruff key is used to keep the balancer from spinning, that's not the case. The key is there for alignment purposes. I recently had an issue with a balancer that sheared a woodruff key.
What keeps the balancer tight are two things: The press fit between its inside diameter and the crank snout's outside diameter, and a properly torqued balancer retaining bolt (usually 65 ft-lbs for this bolt).
If the balancer is a lot more worn than the pictures show, then yes you could be getting a vibration issue, but I doubt it's worn to that point yet. I'd be looking at your motor mounts as well.
If you remove the belt, you shouldn't be feeling any play on the crank drive pulley caused by worn rubber on the balancer. Depending on how bad the rubber is again, you could feel play on the balancer's outer area against its inner area.
As far as your idle issue, you could have a bad plug wire again (I've had brand new defective wires), or you could have a small break in your ignition wire somewhere. How severe is the stumble when it happens? Is it barely noticeable, or do you definitely recognize it?
Here's a picture of the timing cover seal:
I can recognize it, but I say someone else sitting in the car wouldn't know it. You can also hear it from the engine bay. It sounds like "Domf". I say it feels like a miss or stumble, but it is usually just one at a time, and sometimes the RPM's drop for a split second when it does it. Almost like the engine gets bogged down for just a split second.
I had the engine running, and I couldn't tell anything from the crank pulley. But when I looked at the HB, I could tell it wasn't spinning straight. The edges looked a little blurry, so I could tell it was moving back and forth somewhat. I guess you could call it a quiver. So, I say that does mean it is bad then.
I'll get the tools today and probably work on it when the sun start going down. I'll have to pick up a torque wrench too I guess. I do have an inch pound, but not a ft pound. They sell them at autozone, so hopefully those aren't too bad.
Oh, and where do you put the jack stands at? I'm guessing under the control arms? I see where to jack it up at, under the center of the K member.
To my knowledge which is always winging it... lol the rubber that is cracking off on your harmonic balancer is only meant to balance engine vibration but I see some oil in your pic. This is most likely the oil seal that is probably under 5 bucks at the part store. I actually just replaced my seal a few days ago. I bought the krapy harmonic balancer from pepboys. It pulls the balancer off just fine but does not have the proper bolt to put it back on! The original center bolt is to short to reach the threads safely to be able to just bolt it back on yourself. I had to go to home depot and buy a bolt that was maybe... 3/4th an inch longer, maybe a full inch I dont remember. As far as replacing the timing chain seal? I hope they were talking about the oil seal and nothing else behind it because then you would have to take your water pump off which could be worthless if the seal is fine.
Here is what I suggest for the most quick fix, something I wish I knew before hand a few days ago. Take that center bolt in the middle of the crankshaft pully out and bring it to the store with you. Buy the pully tool and ask for a bolt that is 3/4ths to an inch longer than the one you have. ( you will probably have to go to home depot for the bolt, get the strongest botl possible with a rating of 5 or if you can find the 8 more power to you. ) Also buy a seal puller tool, its 9 bucks and well worth it to safely pull your seal off and NOT bend your timing chain cover. They should be able to look the oil seal up for you, its pretty small and just slips over the end of the crank into the timing chain cover. If you can... find something that can set over that seal softly but firmly, something that has the shape of a donut. The seal will not just pop back on there easily. If you had something like a wooden donut to fit over the top, then lightly hammer the back of it.. you can get the seal on safely. Its actually recommended that you take the timing chain cover off then use a flat piece of wood to set over it then softly hammer it on but.. way to much bolt work for me.
As far as the broken up rubber in the balancer itself... wow 50 bucks for a replacement!! That's unreal! I think you would be able to find a whole harmonic balancer in great condition in a junk yard. I would certainly hunt the bone yard for good before I pay anymore than 25 dollars to repair my old part.
So as long as you have those parts you should be able to do this job in less than an hour. I think the most difficult part will be getting that tricky oil seal into the timing cover. I used a huge pry bar, wrench, and a hammer... dont ask.. it was creative and risky but it worked lol
To my knowledge which is always winging it... lol the rubber that is cracking off on your harmonic balancer is only meant to balance engine vibration but I see some oil in your pic. This is most likely the oil seal that is probably under 5 bucks at the part store. I actually just replaced my seal a few days ago. I bought the krapy harmonic balancer from pepboys. It pulls the balancer off just fine but does not have the proper bolt to put it back on! The original center bolt is to short to reach the threads safely to be able to just bolt it back on yourself. I had to go to home depot and buy a bolt that was maybe... 3/4th an inch longer, maybe a full inch I dont remember. As far as replacing the timing chain seal? I hope they were talking about the oil seal and nothing else behind it because then you would have to take your water pump off which could be worthless if the seal is fine.
Here is what I suggest for the most quick fix, something I wish I knew before hand a few days ago. Take that center bolt in the middle of the crankshaft pully out and bring it to the store with you. Buy the pully tool and ask for a bolt that is 3/4ths to an inch longer than the one you have. ( you will probably have to go to home depot for the bolt, get the strongest botl possible with a rating of 5 or if you can find the 8 more power to you. ) Also buy a seal puller tool, its 9 bucks and well worth it to safely pull your seal off and NOT bend your timing chain cover. They should be able to look the oil seal up for you, its pretty small and just slips over the end of the crank into the timing chain cover. If you can... find something that can set over that seal softly but firmly, something that has the shape of a donut. The seal will not just pop back on there easily. If you had something like a wooden donut to fit over the top, then lightly hammer the back of it.. you can get the seal on safely. Its actually recommended that you take the timing chain cover off then use a flat piece of wood to set over it then softly hammer it on but.. way to much bolt work for me.
As far as the broken up rubber in the balancer itself... wow 50 bucks for a replacement!! That's unreal! I think you would be able to find a whole harmonic balancer in great condition in a junk yard. I would certainly hunt the bone yard for good before I pay anymore than 25 dollars to repair my old part.
So as long as you have those parts you should be able to do this job in less than an hour. I think the most difficult part will be getting that tricky oil seal into the timing cover. I used a huge pry bar, wrench, and a hammer... dont ask.. it was creative and risky but it worked lol
Why is it that you need a longer bolt? Is it just for the installer, then you put the original bolt back in?
And I say you mean puller tool instead of "pully tool"?
I think that oil seal they are talking about is the piece that you can replace that doesn't require you to pull the timing chain cover. I looked on Autozone and don't see a seal puller.
I sure hope a Lowes would work as Home Depot is an hour away.
I was thinking this would be simpler of a job. I say I could get a ride to get a longer bolt, but that is more involved than what I was thinking when I don't really know what I'm doing.
I may just let a shop do it. I got a quote of $110 for labor, and another $15 to replace the seal. I'd have to bring them the parts as they said that would be best. I'm thinking he said that cause they'd be charging me more than the $55 I can get one at Autozone.
There is such a tool as a seal puller. The reason I ended up with a screwdriver is because the crank snout can interfere with with a seal puller. That's the issue I ran in to while changing mine, on top of getting a good spot for leverage to use it in the engine bay. You can put your jackstands underneath the control arms. You also can re-use your original bolt, provided it's in good condition. The longer one that was mentioned was to draw the balancer in, but if you've got the install tool, you shouldn't need it.
While most junkyard parts can be quite useful, a balancer is one thing I would purchase new. On top of this, most junkyards aren't willing to part out complete engines, so you'd be rooting through piles of junk engines hoping to find one that's the right diameter and still in good condition.
The Auto Zone loan-a-tool *should* have what you need to install the balancer,
but check it over before you walk out of the store. The problem I've ran in to with those is that sometimes pieces are missing, or the bolts are stretched, bent, or stripped.
__________________ The best way to judge someone's character is to watch how they treat a person that can do absolutely nothing for them.
There is such a tool as a seal puller. The reason I ended up with a screwdriver is because the crank snout can interfere with with a seal puller. That's the issue I ran in to while changing mine, on top of getting a good spot for leverage to use it in the engine bay. You can put your jackstands underneath the control arms. You also can re-use your original bolt, provided it's in good condition. The longer one that was mentioned was to draw the balancer in, but if you've got the install tool, you shouldn't need it.
While most junkyard parts can be quite useful, a balancer is one thing I would purchase new. On top of this, most junkyards aren't willing to part out complete engines, so you'd be rooting through piles of junk engines hoping to find one that's the right diameter and still in good condition.
The Auto Zone loan-a-tool *should* have what you need to install the balancer,
but check it over before you walk out of the store. The problem I've ran in to with those is that sometimes pieces are missing, or the bolts are stretched, bent, or stripped.
Ok, I guess I'll try it then. I just didn't want to get stuck not being able to put it on cause I'd have to go find a bolt.
I'll pick up probably the Pioneer harmonic balancer, puller, intaller, thread lock, I've read to use the red stuff, seal, and seal puller. I don't know if Autozone will have a seal puller as it is not on their site, but I'll ask at the desk, and look in their tool section.
Ok, I guess I'll try it then. I just didn't want to get stuck not being able to put it on cause I'd have to go find a bolt.
I'll pick up probably the Pioneer harmonic balancer, puller, intaller, thread lock, I've read to use the red stuff, seal, and seal puller. I don't know if Autozone will have a seal puller as it is not on their site, but I'll ask at the desk, and look in their tool section.
Hope it goes well for you, let us know how it turns out.
You can actually reinstall the "hb" without a special tool. You just need a longer bolt and the original thick washer that came off of the car. I'm not sure if its just me but my original bolt just wasnt long enough to reach the threads so I could reinstall the hb. Had to use that home depot bolt to help pull the hb back on, then I removed the home depot bolt and used the original once it was pushed on enough for the threads to reach. I'm not sure if you know yet but that hb is on there very tightly. There is no way that it will just slip back on easily lol even with a huge ratchet and bolt, its a very tight fit. I dont doubt you can do this yourself and save some cash but if you dont have the tools or it kinda cuts you short on transportation, a shop might be a good idea. Just know that you can save about 100 dollars by doing it yourself I think the other guy might be right, the puller may not work with the end of the crank sticking out of the hole lol. I forgot what I used... a wrench or something to pry it out. Just got to make sure your only prying the seal and not the timing chain cover itself. If you bend that thing.. your gonna have worst oil leaks. I'll see if I can get the bolt size today. I'm headed up to my garage to do some timing and carb tuning work.
I'm not sure if this is recommended but I put some rtv sealant around my seal simply cause I never really want to pull that hb off again lol. Using engine degreeaser on a blue shop towell to wipe the area clean helped, and yeah not to much rtv sealant cause I dont want chunks floating around. After running the car for 30 min I have no leaks so it seems cool.
Thanks, yeah I may let a shop do it. I got to thinking if I had a problem with the seal, or if for some reason I couldn't get the new HB on, then I'd have to get it towed. And I wouldn't want to screw something up. I'm still gonna think about it, though I'll get it done in the next few weeks. I'm not in a hurry as it probably has been like that for years.
Is there any chance a failing HB could cause a slight vibration every once in a while at idle, but everything is fine when driving around?
I still have no idea what that is. You can feel a brief vibration when it does it and the RPM's dip very briefly. Sometimes it will do 2 or 3 of them like it is missing. Someone did mention it could be the compressor starting to sieze which I guess would interfere with the crank trying to spin.
I had called a couple of shops and they were around $110 for labor to replace the HB.
Then I called another shop that is more professional as the guys at the desk wear khakis and collared shirts, they wanted $180 just for labor. I asked him why it is so high. He said it could be $75 to $180. He said they like to price it high, cause it is easier to come down vs. raising the price on a customer. He said they'd have to look at it to see what all was involved.
He said the thing is with the AC. Something about there being a line running by that they may have to remove and purge the system which is why they were quoting me $180. I really like this shop, but it is hard to get in cause they are so busy. But does anyone know anything about the AC line being in the way? I didn't see anything. I would take it by to let them look at it to give me a better quote, but they are busy he said.
lol wow I wouldn't go to that shop. Maybe he didn't understand what you were wanting done on the car OR your vette its so cramped that for some reason you cant even get a wrench in there without moving some other parts. This is on your 89 vette and not the bird right? Sorry about the late reply but the bolt is a Grade 5 7/16th and is 2' 3/4th long. You do want to fix that harmonic ballancer asap because with it damaged it will cause vibration. Check out this link for info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
Keep in mind that Mechanics charge a standard rate by the hour. If they think they can do it in one hour or less, you will see 90 to 125. If they double that then it usually means the shop thinks its going to take two hours to complete the work. Really a good mechanic with all of the tools should be able to swap it out in under an hour. I've never done one before a week ago but once I had all the tools it took about 30 / 45 minutes. If thats their job and they cant beat my timing.. something is wrong lol.
I kinda overlooked the fact that you were talking about a vette and not the bird, that wasnt mis-typed was it? It seems that this is probably a standard gm part that was used on that model as well though the amount of room you have between the hb's bolts and radiator might be alot less than what is on the bird. If your confident with jacks, jack stands and turning wrenches I'm sure you can pull the hb off and put it back on just to look at the seal. Once you get that far your probably going to want to replace it yourself lol. I'd help but I'm a state away in ga. 150 total for labor and parts might not be a bad deal if you just dont want to mess with it and cant afford to be without your car. Make sure the mechanic agrees to the parts and labor first. Doubling up another hour could jack the price up to 250 for a job that could have been done by yourself for less than 40 bucks. I wonder if you do have the exact same hb in that car as a 3rd gen has on it's engine. If so there are probably 10 of them or more at the salvage yard for 10 or 20 bucks. The oil seal cant be more than five dollars, the pully is 20 and some kinda pry bar to get the seal out has got to be 5 to 9 dollars unless you have some tools already.
__________________ 9 years.. same bird.. in love with every second
lol wow I wouldn't go to that shop. Maybe he didn't understand what you were wanting done on the car OR your vette its so cramped that for some reason you cant even get a wrench in there without moving some other parts. This is on your 89 vette and not the bird right? Sorry about the late reply but the bolt is a Grade 5 7/16th and is 2' 3/4th long. You do want to fix that harmonic ballancer asap because with it damaged it will cause vibration. Check out this link for info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
Keep in mind that Mechanics charge a standard rate by the hour. If they think they can do it in one hour or less, you will see 90 to 125. If they double that then it usually means the shop thinks its going to take two hours to complete the work. Really a good mechanic with all of the tools should be able to swap it out in under an hour. I've never done one before a week ago but once I had all the tools it took about 30 / 45 minutes. If thats their job and they cant beat my timing.. something is wrong lol.
I kinda overlooked the fact that you were talking about a vette and not the bird, that wasnt mis-typed was it? It seems that this is probably a standard gm part that was used on that model as well though the amount of room you have between the hb's bolts and radiator might be alot less than what is on the bird. If your confident with jacks, jack stands and turning wrenches I'm sure you can pull the hb off and put it back on just to look at the seal. Once you get that far your probably going to want to replace it yourself lol. I'd help but I'm a state away in ga. 150 total for labor and parts might not be a bad deal if you just dont want to mess with it and cant afford to be without your car. Make sure the mechanic agrees to the parts and labor first. Doubling up another hour could jack the price up to 250 for a job that could have been done by yourself for less than 40 bucks. I wonder if you do have the exact same hb in that car as a 3rd gen has on it's engine. If so there are probably 10 of them or more at the salvage yard for 10 or 20 bucks. The oil seal cant be more than five dollars, the pully is 20 and some kinda pry bar to get the seal out has got to be 5 to 9 dollars unless you have some tools already.
The HB replacement will be for the Firebird. It also needs to be replaced on the Vette, but I'm not really driving it now as I'm replacing the valve cover gaskets, and other things. Plus it has half the miles. My Firebird has 160K miles.
The shops were quoting me for the Firebird. The shop that was $180 said it might not be that high, but something about how I guess in their book says the air conditioning might need to be purged to remove a AC piece for the Harmonic balancer replacement. I told the guy that no one has said anything about the AC being in the way. So, I say it wouldn't be $180.
I may try it myself. You said I need a prybar for the seal? I do have one of those picks that are shaped into a hook. But that may be too small. I guess I could look for a mini crow bar or something.
So, I'm assuming you pull the seal out, then the new seal is just pressed into place? I don't have a donut shaped piece to press it back in. I figured I could press it in by hand? That is my main concern, the seal and screwing it up.
I think I'm gonna go ahead and try to replace. I'm still deciding on what balancer to get, Autozone, or one from Summit. I'll go ahead and get that bolt just incase I need it.
It was about the easiest thing to do on the car. There are only 4 bolts involved and you dont need to remove any other part as there is almost a foot of room down there to work with. Special tools that came in handy included.. a larger ratchet cause that hb is on there tight. Be sure to get the strongest bolt possible, if you breaking a cheap bolt in there would not be fun! Grade 5 seemed risky, grade 8 is perfect but hard to find. Only use the spare bolt to get close enough to sink the original in about half an inch, a good grip. I still think you should check the junk yards out for the part, could save a decent amount of cash. I really dont think there is any performance involved in this part so a stock one is fine.. unless you want something fancy looking and shiney. Oh and the seal is in there tight. It does press back in but its a pain. When you press one side of the ring shaped seal, the other pops back out. Maybe a flat wooden donut cut out would be handy to ease it in there. If you screw it up, its only 5 bucks I think so no big deal. I think a light bit of rtv sealent was a good idea too. I know I said it before, but I'm not sure if your supposed to use it but I dont see any harm really. As long as you dont use to much so none gets caught up in the oil flow. Really this is much easier than it sounds. LOL! To the dude who thinks he has to disconnect your ac. Lmao thats as good as the guy telling you that the thing could explode! omg funny.
__________________ 9 years.. same bird.. in love with every second
It was about the easiest thing to do on the car. There are only 4 bolts involved and you dont need to remove any other part as there is almost a foot of room down there to work with. Special tools that came in handy included.. a larger ratchet cause that hb is on there tight. Be sure to get the strongest bolt possible, if you breaking a cheap bolt in there would not be fun! Grade 5 seemed risky, grade 8 is perfect but hard to find. Only use the spare bolt to get close enough to sink the original in about half an inch, a good grip. I still think you should check the junk yards out for the part, could save a decent amount of cash. I really dont think there is any performance involved in this part so a stock one is fine.. unless you want something fancy looking and shiney. Oh and the seal is in there tight. It does press back in but its a pain. When you press one side of the ring shaped seal, the other pops back out. Maybe a flat wooden donut cut out would be handy to ease it in there. If you screw it up, its only 5 bucks I think so no big deal. I think a light bit of rtv sealent was a good idea too. I know I said it before, but I'm not sure if your supposed to use it but I dont see any harm really. As long as you dont use to much so none gets caught up in the oil flow. Really this is much easier than it sounds. LOL! To the dude who thinks he has to disconnect your ac. Lmao thats as good as the guy telling you that the thing could explode! omg funny.
I think it is best to get a new one. It would be like buying a radiator hose from the junkyard. It may or may not work, and it may or may not last. It is only $50 at Autozone. I don't mind getting an OEM type balancer, I just didn't want to get a bad brand, and thought maybe the Summit brand might be built better.
I'm only gonna use the bolt if I can't use the original one to get the balancer back on. But from what I've read, I should be able to use the original bolt. Though, I'll have the longer bolt handy if they have one at Lowe's, if not, then I won't have the bolt.
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but what torque rating goes on all of the bolts? And I'm guessing blue thread lock on all of the bolts, including the center crank bolt?
And the RTV sealant you put on the seal, I'm assuming you put it on the outside edge of the seal, then put the seal on?
I order a rebuilt harmonic balancer from Damper Doctor. It has a 3 year warranty, and they say they use a silicon rubber material that is supposed to be better than OEM.
I'll be sending back my core to them. With shipping, I'll be out an extra $20 or so than if I went with Autozone. But I get a 3 years warranty, and I say it will be better than your off the shelf cheapo balancer from discount part stores. I only want to do it once.
By the way, where do you put the blue thread lock at? Bolt for the crank shaft, and pulley bolts? Damper Doctor also said they put some on the crank snout. I'm guessing that is what you slide the keyway of the balancer on at.
Do I need to worry about the crank turning over? No idea how to stop that from happening.
I did get a puller and installer from Autozone, but I'm going to have to return them. One of the bolts in the puller has one bent thread. They should be able to screw in by hand, but one would barely go in then stop. I didn't want to force it on with a wrench.
And on the puller, one of the bolts were broke. It may be one that I don't need, but I'm gonna exchange it anyways since I'll be exchanging the puller.
I think I can handle the puller, it looks much like a steering wheel puller. Though, I'm a little confused with the installer. I did watch a video to give me an idea. It looks like you have the little piece you thread by hand in the crank. Then you have a thin threaded long bolt that goes inside a large threaded bolt. You then tighten the thin long bolt to the small piece that you had hand tightened in the crank. Then you put the ball bearing thing on and down the large bolt. Then you screw on the large nut. When you are screwing the nut when you are putting the balancer on, do you have another wrench on the large threaded bolt keeping it steady?
Oh, and you guys are putting black RTV silicon on the outer edge of the crank seal?
And what bolts do you put the blue thread lock on? The crank bolt and the pulley bolts, or just the crank bolt? And I believe the crank bolt gets 65 ftlbs torque? How much do the pulley bolts get?
I didnt use the tool for the reinstall. I just used a bolt and the original thick washer. If you put your belts back on the engine wont move on you as you tighten the pully back on. I didnt get all technical about how much torque to use when reapplying it, just kinda felt it out. Even without any bolts, as tight as that balancer is, I dont think it would be going anywhere any time soon. Yeah, I just put a bit of high temp rtv around the back side of the seal. I didnt use any thread lock as I'm sure a pry bar will pop that bolt lose no matter what. They seemed strong enough. I'm sure you can handle this one easily. Really the only pain was getting the seal in properly cause its a slippery one.
__________________ 9 years.. same bird.. in love with every second
I didnt use the tool for the reinstall. I just used a bolt and the original thick washer. If you put your belts back on the engine wont move on you as you tighten the pully back on. I didnt get all technical about how much torque to use when reapplying it, just kinda felt it out. Even without any bolts, as tight as that balancer is, I dont think it would be going anywhere any time soon. Yeah, I just put a bit of high temp rtv around the back side of the seal. I didnt use any thread lock as I'm sure a pry bar will pop that bolt lose no matter what. They seemed strong enough. I'm sure you can handle this one easily. Really the only pain was getting the seal in properly cause its a slippery one.
Ok, you put the RTV on the back side, I was thinking it went around the outer edge.
I just watched the vid, that install tool is awesome. Its always risky putting torque on bolts and the thought of snapping one sucks but I gave my trust to the grade 8 bolt. The tool looks like its worth it because with it you wont have moving threads pulling the hb back on. If you can find that tool, I'd use it. If your impatient and want to risk a drill and tap project then you might just wing it like me.
__________________ 9 years.. same bird.. in love with every second
I just watched the vid, that install tool is awesome. Its always risky putting torque on bolts and the thought of snapping one sucks but I gave my trust to the grade 8 bolt. The tool looks like its worth it because with it you wont have moving threads pulling the hb back on. If you can find that tool, I'd use it. If your impatient and want to risk a drill and tap project then you might just wing it like me.
They rent them at Autozone and Advance. I've got the installer and puller. Advance Auto parts had a bent bolt and smashed threads. The next day I stopped by, and a different guy told me they had another kit in the back. So I got it. I'll work on it tonight. I didn't pick up any sealant, so I'll just put the seal on dry and see how that goes. I got a PVC pipe. I'll see if it will work putting it back on.
Well, I wasn't able to do it. I had the 3 pulley bolts off. Then I tried to get the center bolt off, but the pulley and balancer kept spinning with it. I sure was looking forward to saving $100.
Though, I guess it was good it happened now. As if I had the new balancer on and I was trying to tighten that center bolt on the pulley and couldn't get it torqued cause the pulley kept spinning with it, then I would of had to get it towed.
so you were turning the engine over, no big deal you just gotta lock it up somehow, several ways to do it,
1. vise grips on the flywheel, if its a stick put it in gear and have someone hold the breaks so you dont roll it off whatever its up on,
2. you may be able to just have someone hold the balancer while you pop it loose,
3. wrap a nylon ratchet strap around and over itself like an oil filter wrench so it is self tightening hook the loose end somewhere and it can hold the balancer from spinning, you can also do this with a second person to hold it and the serpentine belt seated on the pulley, you'll need to put at least one of the 3 smaller bolts back in tho
the absolute last resort but most likely thing the shop would do is to pop it loose with an impact, however this is a BAD idea
options 1-3 should get you going,
as for what to replace it with, i chose the summit pro street balancer because it was abotu $3 more that the autozone but it has 60 degrees worth of timing marked on it instead of just tdc, might come in handy sometime
so you were turning the engine over, no big deal you just gotta lock it up somehow, several ways to do it,
1. vise grips on the flywheel, if its a stick put it in gear and have someone hold the breaks so you dont roll it off whatever its up on,
2. you may be able to just have someone hold the balancer while you pop it loose,
3. wrap a nylon ratchet strap around and over itself like an oil filter wrench so it is self tightening hook the loose end somewhere and it can hold the balancer from spinning, you can also do this with a second person to hold it and the serpentine belt seated on the pulley, you'll need to put at least one of the 3 smaller bolts back in tho
the absolute last resort but most likely thing the shop would do is to pop it loose with an impact, however this is a BAD idea
options 1-3 should get you going,
as for what to replace it with, i chose the summit pro street balancer because it was abotu $3 more that the autozone but it has 60 degrees worth of timing marked on it instead of just tdc, might come in handy sometime
I ended up going with Damper Doctor for my balancer. The rubber piece is supposed to be made of a better material than OEM and it has a 3 year warranty. It is a rebuilt piece, the pieces they sell new only have a 1 year warranty and are your typical Dorman or Pioneer.
I'm doing this myself and I have an automatic tranny.
I have heard of sticking a screw driver in the Flywheel. I don't really know where to stick it, but I guess I can pull the cover off and see.
I did try jacking the front end up via the K member, but I couldn't get it high enought to use jack stands. I'll have to look at it again to see if the jack was even at its peak. It is a low profile Gm performance parts jack.
Oh, and I'm guessing I turn the wrench counter clock wise?
automatic, pull the flywheel, dust/inspection cover, and clamp a visegrip on the flywheel on the oil filter side of the engine up against the bottom of the block and loosen your balancer bolt, when you reinstall if it turns on you before you hit torque spec do the vise grip thing again only this time on the other side so that i t pushes the pliers against the block or starter
automatic, pull the flywheel, dust/inspection cover, and clamp a visegrip on the flywheel on the oil filter side of the engine up against the bottom of the block and loosen your balancer bolt, when you reinstall if it turns on you before you hit torque spec do the vise grip thing again only this time on the other side so that i t pushes the pliers against the block or starter
Ok, I might could reach it without lifting the car. I'm unable to lift the car to the jack's max position, it gets too hard pushing the lever. So, I can't get the jack stands under the control arms. Where else can I put the stands? I did have the stands on the back of the tire at that place where the control arms bolt up. But one of the stands was on two legs. So I scrapped that idea.
I might could get some 2x12 and drive the front wheels on them and see if that is enough room under the control arms.
Ok, I got it on. I let it idle to operating temp and didn't notice anything odd. I didn't change the seal as I did try, and couldn't get it out. I didn't really try too hard cause I didn't want to get stuck with a bent up seal and not being able to get it out. I don't think I damaged anything. Everything was dry on the timing cover, so I say it isn't leaking.
Can you press the balancer on too far? I tightened the large nut till it stopped, then I turned it a little more.
Though, I forgot to weigh the new balancer to make sure it matches the weight of the old balancer. I hope they sent me the right one. I did ask them to double check they were sending the right one, so hopefully they did. I will call them Monday and ask them for the weight of the balancer they sent me. Then hopefully that will match up with my old one. That would give me some piece of mind.
I think the 350 and 305 is different. If they gave me the wrong one, what would I notice? And I'm guessing the engine would tear up as soon as I started driving it? I will be going out of town later next week, so I wouldn't want to get stuck on the interstate.
I think the other guy might be right, the puller may not work with the end of the crank sticking out of the hole lol. I forgot what I used... a wrench or something to pry it out. Just got to make sure your only prying the seal and not the timing chain cover itself. If you bend that thing.. your gonna have worst oil leaks. I'll see if I can get the bolt size today. I'm headed up to my garage to do some timing and carb tuning work. 
