87_LG4

Tried to fire up my freshly rebuilt 305 the other day. Long story short, the outer cap thing broke clean off my brand new LT1 mini starter after fourth or fifth startup attempt.

The engine turned over nicely, fired up then ran briefly before coming to a stop. That was the first couple of times. Then on the fourth startup the engine stopped rather abruptly with a muffled sort of clunk. I checked around but couldn't see any thing suspicious, so I tried to fire her up one more time. The engine started, but I noticed the starter had a slightly different sound to it. It turned a few revs, then, accompanied by the sound of three or four clunks, it stopped. Took the plastic cover off from under the converter. Lo and behold, there I found this just lying around:





Has anyone ever seen something like this before? What would cause this? I need to know so that it wont happen again.

Thank you.

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

i had one that did that! make sure its bolted in good and shimmed if it needs it. also make sure you put the brace back on the end. mine wasnt shimmed right and it smaked the flexplate and and got stuck to the gears and twisted the end right off

skirkland1980

iTrader: (2)

make sure you have the correct length bolts. the mini starters use shorter bolts than large starters use.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Maybe gear engagement too tight? Looks like it overstressed the case because the bendix was too tight on the starter gear.

Is it one of those Chinese things? They are POS starters, this happened last weekend. PLASTIC gears!!





Just look at it, the fork is plastic too!

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

ya id say they are a pos wow

87_LG4

Not really sure if it's Chinese or not, didn't say where it was made, but probably is. Bought it off a company on eBay called RareElectrics, and yeah it's got the plastic fantastic innards. It also had pos terminals that lock up when you tighten the nuts and brake off when you try to loosen them again, and I didn't even cross thread them. I'll pop buy a place tomorrow that does aluminum welding and such, see if they can't get it welded back in place so I can use it for now. Then I'll order a proper made in the U.S. of A. starter. Anyone know a good place where they sell those? Preferably LT1 design like the one i have, but doesn't need to be. All it really needs to do is bolt up and last so that I never have to think about it again. Also, aremy10 said to put the brace back on the end of the starter, but the brace I had from my old behemoth starter didn't fit the new mini starter, so what should I do about that.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 87_LG4!!

If things don't say where they're made, it's usually because it's not the US of A!!

Any chance to wave the Red, White, and Blue will be taken, nothing wrong with that, but you'll see it everywhere!!

I wouldn't recommend welding up that POS LT1 mini starter that you got, but rather, put on your old starter if it will fit!! Use that for the time being until you can get a good one from the US of A!!



Plastic gears?? Who makes crap with plastic gears??

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

anyplace that puts way too much money in their pockets at our expense. Yeah it looks like it needs shimmed out further I would check the clearence when you reinstall it before trying to start it again. especially since your 305 is freshly built it should be at max compression right now. your time is worth something but not as much as replacing the engine when something serious breaks.

87_LG4

Hey DAN61!!

I totally agree, nothing wrong with waving the red, white and blue In fact our flag is red, white and blue as well, so I totally get that . Unfortunately the old starter was bust, which is why I upgraded (at least I thought I did) to the mini starter, so I need to get it welded so it'll work just long enough for its replacement to get here. About that though, any specific suggestions? And when it comes time to start her up again, is there any way I can engage the solenoid without turning the starter to check clearances?

Thank you

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Yes you can. If you use the car's wiring & battery remove the wires from the big terminal on the starter solenoid and connect them together. This will pull power from them motor, the fork is actuated with power from the small terminal. You have to connect the wires you pulled or you will have no power in the car. Make sure it won't short anywhere.

Easier is with an external battery, undo the ground from the car's battery and then simply use your external one w/ some wires to power the small terminal, ground the - to the starter housing. That will only push the bendix forward without spinning the motor. Normally the motor gets power from the big lug and only when the bendix is in the forward position (it has an internal contact)

J91

Why all the hassle? Just order a new mini starter, from Jegs or Summit if you want an upgrade. Welding that is a waste of time. Return it and get your $ back if you can??? Don't buy ebay junk w/ no brand name on it!! If you do not have headers or a built motor, get a factory starter! I have one sitting w/ less than 10K mi. on it, I'd part with cheap!

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

The guy is in Norway, for us poor saps across the pond it takes at least a week to get stuff from Summit and often more. Also, when just ordering a starter it gets mighty expensive w/ the additional 25 bucks international handling and maybe 80+ bucks in shipping. I'm pretty sure that he, like me orders stuff from places like Summit in batches to spread the shipping costs and handling fees over multiple parts.

J91

Yeah, I knew you guys were in Europe, didn't know it was that hard to get parts! I guess welding that isn't such a bad idea, good luck...

87_LG4

Welding would be a good idea, except I just returned from the guys who I had hoped could do a cheap fix on my starter, well think again. They said it would take about an hour to weld that little seam and the charge a whooping 160 bucks an hour!!! No way in hell I'm paying more than a new starter just to do a simple weld. Which is why I'm getting a new one, of high quality, mini of course, preferably in LT1 design. Any good suggestions?

Oh, and thanks for the offer J91, but i have a built engine and headers, so factory starter probably wouldn't fit anymore.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

hmmm maybe you should take up welding for a living, sounds like they charge a mint

the corvette mini starters are excellent and I also have used tilton starters with great success.

chas0218

Mine did it when my timing was too far advanced. It would turn the engine over then the engine would catch the starter gear as it came around ...mine cracked the housing in half but never broke...i decided to buy a new mini high torque and adjusted my timing.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 87_LG4!!

I don't have any blue in my flag, we lost it somehow, trying to be different!!!!



Can you rebuild the old starter, and install it to get by for awhile?????

Twin_Turbo's idea sounds good, try it!!



Using the broken starter as a gauge, modify it so that the drive gear slides freely along the shaft, that way you can install it, and measure for the proper drive gear gap!!

The amount of shims used, should be the same or at least put you in the ball park so to speak when you actually install the good mini starter, hopefully preventing another broken one!!

The_rabbit1

hahahaha

I knew as soon as I read the title. let me guess. the starter didn't have any shims? if so..the starter was too close to the flexplate putting stress on the shaft and snapping the nose cone off. seen it happen quite a few times. buy a new one and make sure the shims are right.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello The_rabbit1!!

Where were you with all this advice, before the starter got broken???

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

shims are not always needed, I have plenty of setups with no shims, some take one, some take a bunch

87_LG4

By coincidence one of my dads co-workers is a welder by profession, so he agreed to take a look at if for free. Hopefully he'll be able to weld it back together, and if the shimming is the problem (which by now I'm pretty sure it is) then maybe the starter will be able to work for a few weeks till I can get a new (and much better ) one. Now all I have to do is find out why the tranny shot ATF out the filler pipe. But that's another thread (which has gotten no answers, so swing by the transmission board and tell me what you think)

oldtimer

Are you sure that the 305 is not locked up? You said it stopped abruptly, and the starter spun it a few times before the nose cone broke off. You need a starter for sure, but I'd get a breaker bar on the crank pulley and see how freely the motor turns over by hand. You did say this is a fresh rebuild, and sometimes things do go wrong. Good luck, Rudy.

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

I could be wrong but it looks like some cheap pot metal.If so I dont think you can weld it.If you do it would need a weld inside and out prolly.Looks tough to do.I guess it would be mads of aluminum though hu?

87_LG4

Thankfully the engine is not locked up as we managed to turn it over to unbolt the converter. Sadly though, shadygrady is right, couldn't weld that alloy to save my life. But I did call the company that I bought the starter from to see if they could send a new aluminum housing. Didn't get a definitive answer yesterday cause it was shortly before closing time, but they were positive towards the idea and said a technician would call me back on Monday, so hopefully I won't have to buy a new one right now, cause I really don't have the money for it atm (and that's saying something considering that a decent one don't cost that much)

87_LG4

Well, since all air traffic has been grounded until further notice because of the giant volcanic ash cloud hovering over Europe, ordering new parts seems like a long shot at the moment. In the mean time I'm trying to J-B Weld the cap back on. Pulled some strength figures on the hardened epoxy from the web and it should be worth a try.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

I could give you the front of that messed up stripped gear POS starter in my pic. You pay shipping.

87_LG4

Sounds good You take paypal? By the way, how has air traffic in Nederland been affected by the volcano? Although, I suppose that won't necessarily be a problem though, as ocean freight would be just as easy.

Give me a PM