F&Ybodlover

Driving to Daytona last night, a new Mustang GT pulled up next to me, at a light, he started revving his engine, I could tell and see he had an aftermarket exhaust on. I wasn't going to chance it with being 11:00PM and a lot of cops around, but... a couple of lights later, there's a light right before you get on a bridge, I pull out, I tell him "ok", about a 10mph roll, I punch, hear him punch, my tires light up, as soon as I gain traction, he's a half car behind, then easily a car. I probably hit 100 on the bribge, he must have been chicken $hit cause he backed off when I hit about 80, and had atleast a car the whole way. It was a helluva rush drivin on that bridge at night, seein that 30k 300hp Stang in my mirror When we pulled up to the next stop light, I asked if it was a stick, he said "auto" and wanted to go somewhere else and race, but I told him, "to many cops", but actually had my friend,and 2 chicks at the club waitin for me Mods are in my sig, and I'm very proud of my basically stock Formy.

CharcoalBird

iTrader: (4)

I WILL own a Formula 350 one day, those are my favorite thirdgens. Bet that was fun.

87TPI350KID

20+ years of technology and still can't own tuned ports on the street

silly ford

InsaneIROC

lol

F&Ybodlover

It was one of those races where your like "$hit, I don't know if I'll win, but what the heck". How could I not, being on a bridge with no chance of being pulled over, on a clear, crisp night, especially with a stang and him egging me on. Had it been a 5spd, with a good driver, the outcome might have been different, but it wasn't

84L69TA

LOL, yeah right. Maybe if that "silly Ford" was driven right it would have been a very different story. TPI sucks, and it always will.

F&Ybodlover

What's there to "drive right" You step on the gas pedal and go. He had another dude with him in the car, and I was by myself, but he's spottin me 60 horses stock, albeit with a few hundred pounds heavier. Here's some specs on the car from Motor Trend
2005 Ford Mustang GT
Max SAE net horsepower300 @ 6000 rpm
Max SAE net torque, lb-ft315 @ 4500 rpm
Transmission5-speed autoAxle/final-drive ratio:13.31 / 2.35
Curb weight, lb3520
1/4 mile, sec @ mph13.6 @ 99.9
My Formy's got 25 more torque stock, maybe another 15-20 more with my mods, and my reg says weight is 3276(dont know how accurate that is but it's probably close) I don't think my car will do a 13.6, but most of the auto 05+GT's pull high 13's low 14's, which I'm sure my car will atleast do. He might have taken me from a 50+ blast, but he didn't get the chance.

25thmustang

Nice run... But I am pretty sure the 05/06s will stomp on stock L98s...

And you guys forget, the 1987 fox nodies were walking on the L98 cars as well (or at least dead even). So saying it took anything other than the EXACT SAME YEAR car to go faster is ignorance. The fox bodies stock and lightly modded were making the thirdgens look bad wayyyy back before the newer Mustangs came out!

Silly Ford, might not be making the fastest cars, but were beating the thirdgens in the years they were around, and outsold GM without trying! Stupid car manufacterers.

F&Ybodlover

Well my car's not totally stock, but even if it was, I'm sure it would be atleast right next to a totally stock auto 05/06 GT in a short distance. The fox stangs might have walked L98 F-bods in the earlier years, but a 90-92 light Formula 350 like mine, or 90-92 1LE Z28, would be a different story against the fastest of Stangs those years.

90CamaroTBI

I would still think that stock to stock, the fox would have a formula 350.....the foxes were lighter and plus a firebird should weigh more than a 91-92 z28 with a 350 that was beat by them.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

wow....i have a 89 350 formula....and you beat one of the retro looking stangs....ive been kinda scared to race them.....i got slp cold air intake slp runners and 58mm tb edelbrock headers, chip and 2 and half inch cat back.....im wondering to the 350 that won against the stang....what u run in 1/4?

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

Good kill. The 05+ GTs seem to be everywhere around here, like a plague. Props to Ford for selling them. However, they are HIGHLY overrated and underperforming. At least the 2V guys knew where they stood in the food chain - but these new 3V owners all seem to think they've got a rocket on their hands. I've yet to run into one in my Z (can't wait ), but my H/C 00TA regularly puts them so far in the rearview they might as well be in another zip code...

25thmustang - Of course they sold and still sell more Stangs. They're cheap (monetarily and build quality), appeal to women, and make perfect rental cars. Real performance cars are a niche market, and tend to sell less.

F&Ybodlover

Here's a pretty cool comparison from the Jan 92 Muscle car review

Ford Mustang LX
After spending two years as our quickest modem musclecar, the 5.OL Mustang was finally unseated, but it was by no fault of our own. The first runs in the cold were disappointing low-15 second passes. After melting away some of the Gatorbacks (and coming up with some nice photos) it dipped to a 14.8. Not satisfied, we went for a 14.7. Which we got. Knowing that Mustang fans everywhere would scream foul if we didn’t push it further, I clicked off a 14.6, followed by a 14.52. At this point, MCREditorial Director Donald Farr called over the radio that he wanted to see a 14.48 (bosses can be so demanding sometimes). "Yeah, right," I replied, then proceeded to come up with the ‘Stang’s best pass of the day — a 14.48 at a whisker over 93 mph. Had we spent time to play with tire pressures, air cleaners, or to remove the spare, I’m sure we could have knocked another tenth or two off

Pontiac Trans Am

Even if we had chopped two tenths off the Mustang’s time, it still wouldn’t have been enough to match Farr’s 14.33/94.73 pass in the 5.7-liter Trans Am. The big ‘Bird’s extra 48 cubes seemed too much for the little Mustang to handle. Everything worked well on this car; even the 5.7’s mandatory automatic tranny seemed perfectly suited to the engine. The T/A was a joy to drive. Simply pull to the line, heat the tires, leave the shifter in Drive, power-brake a little, and mash the throttle after you’re rolling. Anyone could drive this car to a 14.5 pass, and with a little practice, you too could run 14.3s.

pontiacmo89

nice job on killing that stang! i don't know about you, but to me there is no car on the street i like beaten up on more than a stang.

classic stang talk: our stangs or lighter, hook up better, run forged pistons that we can put a 200 shot on stock

whatever!!! i like hearing them talk crap, and then spanking them, i havn,t had one take me yet. and i plan on never letting one take me period!!!
sorry, i just don't like stangs

thirdgens----> <---stangs

25thmustang

Edit: Ignorance is BLISS...

Think what you'd like, pretend what you want. The real world has proven time and time again what is fact and what is hopes and dreams!

pontiacmo89

yeah, mustangman is probally right about the 305's but we were talking about the guys L98 350 formy, which stock for stock will eat the 5.slow fox bodies alive!
and about the qaulity 98% of people that buy cars like trans am firebird camaro or stangs, all end up putting more money in them for mods if you ask me i'd rather spend my money on looking good in a F-body.
and about ford making the 5.0 over chevy's engines, chevy made several different combos of engines for people to be different, and get the option they wanted, insted of ford's idea everybody gets the same thing.

25thmustang

Umm... stock for stock an L98 will NOT eat a Mustang up. Actually a Speed Density 87-88 notch would walk an L98 Formula. Dont believe me, go read about Mean Mr Mustang back in Car Craft, or send a message to Bob Cosby and a few others from back in the late 80s early 90s. Bone stock high 13s, bolt ons into the 12s (Cosby went 12.5s with an untouched long block on a street car driven to and from the track, nothing but simple bolt ons, gears and driving) and faster!

Again THINK what you want, the FACTS are the facts! If you really think the L98s will walk every mustang, you are sadly, sadly mistaken!

IROCThe5.7L

I've never seen a bone stock 5.0 hit 13's. Either way, it's hard to argue, these cars are old now. I've seen 5-speed 5.0's and L98s run 15's at the track before.

freestylzz

Ya really, tell me about it. I got a chuckle outta that statement

91wtROH17's

The biggest problem is that we have so many different engines in these cars, so everytime a 5.0 races a thirdgen, they judge every other thirdgen the same way!! I am going to tell everyone rite now that I was never beaten by a fox body in my 91Z when I was just bolt-ons. My cousin had an 87 lx 5 speed and I wasted him every time when I first bought mine! I had my car running 13.5's with bolt-on's. And 25th, don't start telling me my cousin can't drive. And for the record, my car ran a 14.0 bone stock down to the filters, I have not seen any fox body do that ever!! But I will say this, mod for mod, the mustang is a faster car in the end, you have less weight and better gearing with a T-5 and the 302 responds great to mods.

F&Ybodlover

Well maybe in your world but not mine. Time and time again,a few years ago I would race a friends 93 Mustang GT 5spd with a flowmaster, in my 90 5.7 GTA totally bone stock with just a tuneup, waxed him everytime we raced. ran a 14.3@96 with that car like that. My Formula felt a bit faster than my GTA after I tuned it up. I love when people take the shortbelt off, bump the timing, take out the silencer, put dragradilas on, and call a stripped Fox LX "stock" and run a 13.9. The fact is this, the later L98 cars got a bad rap from the earlier loaded up MAF cars especially Firebirds, believe what you want but I've had 2 SD L98 cars now, that have run pretty good stock. Fox stangs got slower each year after 87, while thirdgen L98's got faster.:yes:

freestylzz

25thmustang

Thats funny, I have never seen an L98 run faster than 14.8, and that was the same night my dad was going 14.2s with a filter in his 91 LX (at 1000' elevation). My friend Jare ran 13.9 with a filter, and other friends did the same. If we go by what he saw she saw, we all have different opinions. I have never seen an LS1 go 12s stock either.

Also saying they got slower as the years went on, prove it. The 87-88 were the fastest because of speed density, but when I say fastest I dont mean half a second faster, I mean half a tenth faster. A 93 with a good driver vs an 87 with a good driver is a drivers race, not a clear winner.

Like I said go grab some old Car Craft or MM&FF mags and take a look. These guys were going 13s bone stock, and into the 12s with nothing more than a few bolt ons, tires, and gears. Again think what you want, facts are facts!

Ill go back to looking at ALL the Mustang racing organizations now, and leave you guys be! After all, Mustangs are one of the most popular cars to drag race these days... wonder why that is?

91wtROH17's

You get that thong wound up so tight, that is why I just have to comment sometimes. I think you know what you are talking about 25th. I have even asked for your opinion at times, but sometimes man, you just go on like an idiot. Fine, the fox body is a great car, but there were f-bodies (more so from 90-92) that were faster!! I am pissed at GM for not slapping a T-5 on L-98 for production, because I know for sure that the weight loss and extra power to the ground, as well as better gearing than the 700R4 would have easily had my own car running 13.7-13.8's all dam day BONE STOCK!

OUT,

CORY

IROCThe5.7L

Edit: Nevermind. Not worth the time.

25thmustang

See thats what you dont realize...

1. Im not wound up at all. I could care less what you guys think, but when I visit this site and read a post like this I take the 45 seconds to comment on it, and move on. If you think this kind of stuff "bothers" me, you should try thinking again.

2. I dont see how all of a sudden they are faster. They are not, if anything a good race with a decent driver in the 5.0. A 3000 lb LX notch with a 5-speed and 3.08s is easily as fast if not faster than those magic SD L98s. If you dont believe me, then whatever.

3. The Fbodys DIDNT have 5-speeds, DIDNT weigh a lot less, and WERENT faster (than the notchs I posted about before). By saying, shoulda, coulda, woulda if GM did this, means nothing.

One more thing to note, when Im at the track there are tons of 5.0 Mustangs with 5.0 motors not much different from the factory (minus the heads cam and intake packages) running 11s. There are maybe a handful of thirdgens I see at the track, and the ones running fast dont have TPI, definately dont have 305s, and a lot are usually carbed non street friendly cars. This is talking from tons of track visits over the past 6-8 years (lots of those years I was there every weekend, whether watching or racing).

jethawk

dont under estimate the later 305 TPI cars.... give me some tires and a few bolt-ons and i'll show you some 13's aswell... from a car with over 200,000 km's!

superGMman

25th,

You have to remember that the majority of Both thirdgen owners and mustang owners(probably more because of their popularity) are complete tools.

I would expect there to be more mustangs at the track because of what it is, a cheap to build drag car. Thirdgen's weren't claiming and focusing on being the "fastest" but to have a good looking, high optioned, great handling car.
That's it. Thirdgens aren't drag cars, their good handling cars that are decently fast.


Never in my mind have I looked at a mustang and thought, "wow he's got ____ that's a much better car".

91wtROH17's

See if it did not bother you, than why do you make so many bitch comments? I am not playin shoulda, coulda, woulda at all, just trying to point out that the car had more in it, and that GM ****ed up! Soooo, I just get sick of someone like you coming on here and ranting and raving about the fox body, I REALLY DON'T CARE. No doubt you will give someone props when they beat a 5.0, but you will always have a comment to follow like, ohh the guy could not drive, or some **** like that, and all that crap about how you only hang out with good drivers, I just think those comments are childish. Anyways, you have done good things for the site as far as giving information, but bragging is pointless. I don't post that often, but I know a few things, and I have been under a few cars and benched a few trannies into place, TRUST ME the T-5 is lighter than a 700R. I was not trying to say it would shave hundreds of pounds, but there is a huge weight diff. between the two. My argument rests here, I respect the 5.0 as do many on this site, and when you get deeper into the bolt-ons, the weight of the mustang becomes more of an advantage, as far as what car is faster in the end, well that all depends on who has more money to spend and more knowledge to put in.

Thank you and have a nice day .

F&Ybodlover

Didn't you just contradict your self there

Do you consider a timing bump, silencer and shortbelt removed bone stock?

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Seems to me in this thread people are comparing the best of the best.

25th, you know I respect you, but you honestly can't say "a 5.0 mustang with a stick will run high 13s bone stock." Because every one of them WON'T. Plain and simple fact.Yes maybe a low miles, unbeaten one with a recent tune, a good driver and good air at sea level might dip into the 13.9s, this I'm not debating.

But the plain and simple fact is that the conditions have to be perfect for it to happen. You're quoting the best drivers in the fastest cars with the best conditions. Doing the same for thirdgens, they also run high 13s because some have dipped there stock (91/92 1LE L98 Z28s). Do they all? Not by a long shot, and neither do 5.0 mustangs.

It's like me saying all bolt-on LT1s will run 11.7@113, just because that's the record....

Fact is back in the day, on the street, with average drivers, these cars were close! It was a classic competition that just got more and more heated as more mods came out and time went on. Of course GM drew it to a close in 93, but that's another topic

25thmustang

Your right Im talking the fastest, same as the guy here talking about the 91-92 L98 cars. If we want to compare the fastest, and then by NO MEANS is the L98 faster. Like you said both have dipped into the 13s, I personally have watched a bone stock (no short belt, silencer in place, and even seen it with no timing bumped on stock Goodyears, BONE UNTOUCHED STOCK) fox run high 13s. Even my dads went low 14s stock.

I was commenting on this 12 post wonder right here. Well if you want to compare, then go for the fastest of both, and you have a drivers race, NOT an Fbody eating it alive. If you guys really think the Fbody would eat it alive, it better be able to run mid to low 13s (hey after all were comparing the fastest here, only right way to go about it).

I state things that apply to me. I hang out with drag racers. I run with guys who dont granny shift, and drive like old ladies. They go out there, beat the cars into the ground and get good numbers out of them. I cant control what they do, but I post it because when I claim times from cars, you have to take into account they run some of the fastest times. The average kids wont do it, and yes a GT vert with an auto wont even come close, but a well driven notch with a 5-speed is a fast car and will NOT get eaten alive by any thirdgen short of an LC2 car!

On the street anything can and does happen. I have seen ragged out 5.0s get beat by Jeeps (I was in the Jeep) but when people come on claiming it took Ford that many years to be faster than a thirdgen, they have to realize it took Ford no years, they were as fast as thirdgens in the thirdgen days. Then Ford stopped caring about budget bang for buck performance, and started building cars to appeal to everyone. Ford was beating Tuned Port cars from day one of the tuned port motors, and thats where I stand!

dr1

imagine if back in the day ford just said screw it and gave them all 5.7L's too.. we would either all be driving 6.6L's or 3rdgen f-bodys would be so frowned upon this board probably wouldnt even exist

i have no love for any specific car manufacturer, I own a plymouth, dodge, ford, pontiac, and a chevy (oh and a honda bike ;p)

instead of arguing whos twiddle stick is bigger on some forums maybe you should invest some time into learning why that teeny little 4.6 is giving you a run at all, and then update accordingly so you can leave them many more car lengths behind next time

F&Ybodlover

Give me a bone stock light Formula 350 like mine, or 1LE Z28, and I guarantee the thirdgen's will win more times than lose from a dead stop and 50+blast on the highway against a LX notch 5spd of the same year. From a roll, the Stang driver better be a good one or

never disagreed with ya there.

IROCThe5.7L

Well, you saved me a lot of typing. Perfect post.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Yes I wasn't debating at all they (Foxbodies and thirdgens) would/could run a high 13, because I know they can. Is it common? Not at all.

I agree, a thirdgen L98 with a good driver vs a 5.0 with a good driver, and both cars in equal tune is a driver's race. No way shape or form will the Fbody eat the 5.0 alive. But the 5.0 won't automatically beat the Fbody either. It's close.

Fact of the matter is most 5.0s at my local track can't get out of the 14s to save their lives, and neither can TPI thirdgens...

Blu91Z28

I've only had one run-in with a new GT and that was at the track. It was a manual car with less than 500 miles and it got me by a car. He ran a 13.7. I've read that Ford was conservative with the tune and with that mod alone, they're bottom 13's- possibly high 12's.
As far as running Fox Bodies, they seem to fall into two groups around here. You've got the high mileage, trashed cars with a K&N and Flowmasters that run anywhere from low 14's- low 16's. Then there's the Heads/Cam and usually carbed cars running considerably faster. You can throw some SC'd and spray cars in there too. One of the local Mustang shops has a budget build car that runs mid 13's N/A and mid 11's spraying. Most of the L98's around here are well into the 13's or quicker but most aren't too close to stock. I think most people believe all third gens are 305 dogs. I've shocked quite a few LS1/LT1 people.

nick418

if no ones seen a l98 fbody run a 14.8 or better.. then they have never seen a stock l98 with a decent driver at a track then. with the 5.0 stang vs the l98 fbody. Its a drivers race. but a stock l98 vette 6 speed will deff take the 5.0 anytime. i would never say the 5.0 walks a l98 (stock)

F&Ybodlover

Has anyone else with a mildly modded L98 thirdgen, ran against a new auto Mustang GT, on the street or track?

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

The vette will definetly win, but that wasn't even the subject lol.

I aw an L98 run a new GT at the track not long ago, they both ran a low 14. The mustang was stock and the L98 had headers and a muffler I think.

DON 88T/A

The fox bodies were designed toward straight line only...light cheap car,average handling,braking..but had a good motor with a great rear in it...
When it came to building an affordable streat/strip car ford got it right...tip your hat to them on that...but on the other hand the f-body was more car for the dollar..better handling/braking/looks...and the later models ran right with the compettetion...had GM kept the engine options simple(350),and ran a 5 speed,there would be mountains more respect for the thirdgen..but it turned out the way it did and really,I think both sides accomplished there goals considering these cars are 20 years old and can still fire up a heated debate!

zz4monte

I have raced 2 with exhaust and some bolt ons and one guy told me he ran around 300rwhp. A stock LS1 puts up a better fight for sure. I was wondering what the rear wheel torque numbers on these cars are? They don't seem to have any grunt down low compared to my car. This might be a classic example of how important torque is and how some people just look and hp numbers.A 4.6 makes alot less torque than a 5.7.Either way good kill.

pontiacmo89

p.s. sorry 25thstang didn't mean to work you up,

F&Ybodlover

How can he not get worked up He's like a lone Red Sox fan in the middle of Yankee stadium in the championship game, bein in here!

25thmustang

I like the fact you think Im heated up. Its all debate, and there are always two sides, and its actually a LOT more fun to be the one alone.

Also Urban put it right. I came on like I did because of the ignorant posts talking about Ford needing 20 years to catch up, and the L98 raping the 5.0 from any year. You say that kind of bogus crap and expect everyone to sit back and agree... think again. I know the L98s and LB9s were fast cars, no doubting it, but a few select people here think they are god sent, and would rape a 5.0 and thats completely false.

I agree with Don and have been saying it for years, the fox bodies were straight line only cars. We have junk handeling, crap brakes, 4 lug wheels,, and the dreaded off road ground clearance. But on the flip side the Fbodies werent designed to be straight line cars. They handled sat low on the ground, and came with good brakes and suspensions. Both can be made to do either one well, but to say the L98 was faster than the 5.0... thats wrong.

Id be willing to bet, a well driven 5.0 vs a well driven L98 (fastest of each) from 0-60 the L98 will probably win. In a 1/4 mile Id say the fox would probably take it. L98s are animals from a dig, but TPI cars dont breathe well up top (common knowledge).

When I said 14.8, I meant it. fastest stock or even close to stocker I have seen was a 14.8. I raced him 4 times and even took him out of the brackets. I was only running 14.4s that day (warm day, and I was an auto with a few bolt ons) but we talked for a while and he had a catback, and maybe a few of the free mods (I was 16 at the time I forget). Other than that I have seen a lot of 15 second ones (not sure what motors) or faster with a lot of mods done.

Oh well... noones opinions will change, Im not worried about that, sometimes its just good to get a little heated debate out there and stir the pot. Without it it would be a race post, and 5 guys saying good job and then it falls off the page!

Blu91Z28

Stock 5.0's don't breathe any better up top than a L98. Peak power for the 5.0 was rated at a dismal 4,200 RPM while the L98 was 4,400. Both lame by today's standards and a big reason why so many are carbed now.

The reason L98 cars are animals from a dig is 3.06 first gear, 3.23/3.27 axle ratio and the extra 50 ft. lbs of torque. The saving grace for the 5.0 is the lighter weight and closer gear ratios in the manual cars.

25thmustang

Actually the 5.0 makes peak power up around 5000 RPM, not 4200, and most like to be shifted at 5200 or so. Mine liked 5400, and now still with the stock cam I shift it at 5700-5800. Whether it was rated at 4200 or not (my car has a yellow area on the tach from 4200-5000 or so and then red from there up) if you shift one at 4200 your going to lose any race out there!

Blu91Z28

Factory Tach? I don't know about the Mustangs but our tachs aren't that acurate. Mine says I'm shifting at 5,300, that's with the factory governor and I know I'm no where near there. Aren't you running a GT-40 intake manifold?

lilbowilson

iTrader: (2)

MAN! How did I miss this thread!

YEAH TAKE THAT 25THMUSTANG YOU FORD LOVING STICK IN TO MUD!

Seriously guys 25thmustang is right on a couple of things but I do agree with everyone stock for stock it was a drivers race. Back in the day when those cars came out when I was in high school MUSTANGS RULED! It was too easy advance the timing, change the gear and gut the exhaust. That was all they had to do and that made them street kings.

None of us went to the track back then it was all about street racing and it was easier to mod that stang than it was a camaro or firebird. That car still is one of the best drag bodies you can buy.

25thmustang

No Im talking with an aftermarket tach. Probably 6000 on the stocker...

And now I have a Cobra intake, back then I had a stocker. My dads stocker was shifted at 5200-5300 also. Noone shifts them that low, if they do, they run junk times.

I dont fight the Fbodies being bad at anything, but the dumb comments people make shock me...