SpecialK47150

Before I became a member of this board, I raced a ford explorer that had a stock 302. At least it looked stock, he popped the hood and nothing look outta the ordinary.

Anyways, we raced from a stop, and he killed me. It was sad. He got me off the line and just kept pulling ahead. To this day I don't know what happened. Can any of you all tell me?

Pyroviking

iTrader: (4)

Some details on YOUR car would be helpful.

SpecialK47150

sorry, oops, lol, 1992 RS 25th Anniv. Edition bone stock 305 with auto tranny.

Check the regionals boards, new guy from southern indiana, has vid of burnout lol

Pyroviking

iTrader: (4)

If you have TBI, then stock-to-stock, you're going to get eaten by a 302 Explorer. If you have TPI, then you should have beaten him hands-down.

SpecialK47150

Its a TBI, but why does that mean I should get beat?

SpecialK47150

Some reasoning would be nice, why is TBI so bad? I plan on switching to EFI soon though, LS1 swap FTW

Pyroviking

iTrader: (4)

TBI engines are very simply low-powered turds. You'll have much more fun with the LS1.

BTW, TBI is EFI.

SpecialK47150

TBI = Throttle Body Injection

EFI = Electronic Fuel Injection

They're the same? Oops, I feel like an idiot, I thought a TBI was like the step between carburetors and EFI.

Pyroviking

iTrader: (4)

No worries. TBI and TPI are two different kinds of EFI. TBI is absolutely a step between carb and TPI, though.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

TBI 305.....stock auto tranny...open rear end = SLOW My first 3rd was the same thing, except for having a T5, but it was still slow.....

Your car, NEW, was good for a low to mid 15 sec 1/4mile run. How may miles now? Miles on it now? How WORN is it now? I bet you have 2.73 rear gears. Good for MPG, not good for drag racing.

My 87 350 TPI has semi-high miles (180,000miles), but runs like a CHAMP. But still knocks down the same MPG as when it was brad new. Still roasts my 285 rear tires. It was been WELL maintained...And a few upgrades in 21 years. But it still isn't a high HP champ, like I wish it was.

SpecialK47150

Well, for slow, its amazing that I've won the races I have, guess they we're **** drivers.

It has 151k on it, and it wasn't well maintained before I got it, when I picked it up the oil was almost dry as was tranny fluid, the radiator was near empty, and what was this dirty dark brown color. Since then I've kept it properly maintained as best I can.

tyler92

there is nothing wrong with tbi.

Pyroviking

iTrader: (4)

I used to think I was winning a lot of races with the '85 I had in high school... until I finally realized that my opponents over the years probably didn't realize we were racing.

SpecialK47150

They knew we were racing, some were friends, others were guys at the light that we rolled down the windows and were like wanna go, so they knew.

25thmustang

A stock 5.0 Explorer is not particularly fast, but that motor in a Mustang is a LOT of fun .

SpecialK47150

Thing is I have beaten quite a few 5.0 stangs, so thats why I dunno whats up with losing to the explorer

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

If you beat 5.0 'stangs with a 305TBI/auto....They weren't racing, regardless of what they said or you thought.

Sorry, but true.

Or they were the worst drivers in the world.

I love 3rd gens, but facts are facts...Stock we are slower than 'stangs.

SpecialK47150

They are shitty drivers lol, they drive mustangs, lol. And I actually road race more that straight lines, and I guess I'm ballsier than most and don't let off the gas when the car starts to oversteer some.

Saber

iTrader: (2)

There is nothing wrong with a TBI. I love mine. Its unique. That said the 305 TBI sucks, put a 350 in there, have a nice exhaust and do the unltimate tbi mods and your good to go. The 305TBI was the lowest output v8 you could get in a camaro and it makes for a very slow ride lol.

DarrensCamaro

iTrader: (6)

-Darren

BRIrocZ

iTrader: (1)

You aren't going to beat many mustangs with the good ole LO3 unless there's more to that story than you or we know. I used to own pretty much the same car as you and I had headers, cat back, L69 aircleaner and partial ultimate tbi mods. I used to think that car was fast until I got a reality check from a friends 5.0 mustang lol.

The 305 tbi RS's were pretty much the epitome of "looks fast!"

Pyroviking

iTrader: (4)

Back to the Explorer issue, my stock '98 v6 Explorer was easily as fast as a 305tbi/auto thirdgen. A 5.0 Explorer would have been much, much quicker.

... and a 5.0 Mustang? You'd be lucky to still SEE his car at the end of a 1/4 mi.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

i have a 350 TBI with stock gears a 700r4, some headers and a 2.5"exhaust and that thing is SLOW.

i got the car and i thought it was quick, but after awhile i realized that thing this is sluggin down the road.

soooo now im puttin a 350 carb engine in (350 TBI blew up and i wanted carb anyway ) how much faster is carb compared to TBI? i dont have a new cam or anything like that its pretty much a bone stock 350.

although the next thing im gonna do is get a better gear.

so yeah is carb better than TBI and if it is how much faster???

SpecialK47150

Hence a LS1 swap or 383 stroker build, either one I plan on throwing on a bottle and a procharger

Pyroviking

iTrader: (4)

Well, you came to the right place. There's an unbelievable wealth of information here to help you with whatever mods you decide on.

BTW, welcome

Saber

iTrader: (2)

Any engine has the potential to be fast, with TBI you have to have more patience aother inductions. Carb is a good way to make power without all the fancy tuning and electronics. In the end it all boils down to how much money your going to throw into your car, because with money you can do anything. I myself have been comtemplating a TPI swap on my car.

v10viper04

TBI is actaully a better flowing EFI than TPI stock, it flows the amount you need up top. Doesn't die as bad up top, little mods and its good to go. The 305/350tbi are slower than the 305/350 TPI but thats just b/c the TBI versions were meant to be fuel efficient. There are some FAST cars out there using TBI. I'm not calling TPI junk or anything trhe TPI is pretty damn sweet too but stock for stock a TBI unit is better suited. TBI is also a lot cheaper to upgrade. Both can be modded and flow exceptionally well!

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

thanks saber. like you said its how much money you wanna put into it and id rather dump money into somehting im familiar with (carb) then soemthing i know little about (TBI) not saying TBI is bad or anything, i just know how to work on a carb.

Toyota h8r

until 4500rpm or 70mph whatever comes first LOL

IROCThe5.7L

I don't want to start a Mustang vs Camaro war, but this is not really true. Take a 350 TPI with G92 vs a 5.0, and it's going to be close, esp if it's a GT.

Toyota h8r

as much as i despise mustangs sadly stock vs stock mustang should walk a l98 car

know why? race bone stock 92 mustang 5 spd vs 92 L98 z28 g92(non 1le car)

ive seen this race before and sadly the camaro loses. both cars are stock down to the fram air-filters.

camaro jumped out for a 1-1.5 car lenghs from start then the mustang comes around on the top end......

i want to see a 1le car race a 92 mustang notch

IROCThe5.7L

One race doesn't determine anything. Both cars are old. What kind of shape were they in? I've seen L98's run mid 15's before. That does not mean all L98's run 15's because I witnessed it. My buddies 92 L98 B4c hit 13.9. It's only mod was a 80 series muffler. No cat back exhaust, just the muffler. It's really all over the board when cars get to be this old.

v10viper04

I completely agree, stock for stock in new/ low mileage condition a stang vs. Camaro race would be close. Plus the fox stangs don't have anymore top end than an L98 has. they still die around the same rpm, they redline higher but i doubt they make much power up top.

25thmustang

This is true, Ive seen mid 14 second LS1 Vettes...

An L98 vs a 5-speed Mustang is a good race, a drivers race. Even a 5-speed 305 TPI car is a decent run for a 5-speed fox. Take the fastest L98 car and the fastest 5.0/5-speed car, and it should come down neck and neck.

The problem was, the Fbodys had so many engine choices, there are far less L98s out there than 5.0 Mustangs. A 305 TBI car vs a 5.0, even an AOD 5.0 Mustang isn't a race.

Also to note, the 5.0 pulls to right around 5000 RPM, and most run the best shifting them at 5200 or so. I'm not sure where the L98 drops off, but thats more or less what the average 5.0 sees.

vingta1989

back in the day a stock 88 5.7 gta vs a stock 88 5.0 5 spd stang..mustang wins...i know from experience ..a lot of lost races stock for stock gta jumps out first then gets caught..its a fact...

Toyota h8r

see im not the only one lol

but yah if you want a tpi to go fast....got to get rid of tpi in first place. HSR/SR/turtle ram lol

anything will be better than the LR tpi

BRIrocZ

iTrader: (1)

Well even that race can have an argument against it since the gta was pretty much the heaviest 3rd gen around. A formula would've probably fared a bit better.

v10viper04

stock for stock an L98 vs. a 5spd 5.0 will be very close. even 25thmustang said that they die at 5200 at the most. So they don't have an advantage up top. But if you hook that L98 up to a T-56 then it would be all over for the stang.

SpecialK47150

So, what do you guys recommend, a 383 build, or a LS1 swap?

yevgenievich

iTrader: (4)

it was possible to order a 3rd gen to run against a 5.0 mustang, but majority of third gens sold were TBI and auto's hence they got the reputation of being slow. TBI cars were not performance minded. 1le 305 TPI with a 5 speed is the one to get for performance. Third gens turn better. For a long time 1le cars with r compounds would dominate fs class in auto-x

RedHawkLB9

thats b/c the GTA is heaviest 3rd gen you can get.....my formula only weighs 3200lbs

the cars that are known to run dead heat with 5sp stangs are the IROCZ's and the FORMULA's (both with 5.7 TPI,G92's)

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

I know for a fact that if you're willing to spend alittle time with tbi you can make it pretty damn quick. Agreed it takes alittle patience but the payoff is awesome. I'm on a cheap TBICHIPS tune with alittle more stuff done than my sig implys (can't seem to update it) And I can beat or hang with quite a few people here in my crowd (stage 2 SRT-4's,Turbo civics and an LT1 Camaro and a few 06 GT mudstains etc..) So the tbi issue isn't the problem.

We got stuck with the shitty heads, cam,tune and exhaust from the factory .
If we got the same goodies that the TPI guys stock I can guarantee the we could either run neck and neck with or beat them most definately in the top end scheme of things. Thats my opinion and if it's not liked then to bad, lol

v10viper04

I completely agree.

T/Atime

Not what ive experienced with my tank. stock for stock i never had any problems with the mustangs. but i have a 91 l98. my friend has a 87l98 vs my 91 l98 i would always pull lengths on him. But his 87 might be a closer race with the stangs.

88 vs 88 it should be a drivers race!

Also another friend had a 89LX 5.0. This thing was fast! it was stock with a K&N and cherry bombs. lol. He would beat the heck out of this thing all night. Every red light, great driver! when he would race other mustangs he would usually win against modded stangs.

SOME CARS ARE FREAKS FROM THE FACTORY! they are just a little faster than what should be a equall car. But a good driver goes a long way though!

I miss that stang lol!

25thmustang

Drivers make a HUGE difference, especially in a stick shift car. A good driver can take a Mustang into the low 14s all day bone stock, a poor driver and you have A 15 second car. The same holds true for an L98, but being auto, it makes it that much easier...

v10viper04

That's very true, and on the other hand the L98 could be VERY fast stock is mated with a 5spd or even a 6spd...... then the L98 would have the win....

25thmustang

But then the fox "could" be VERY fast with junkyard Explorer heads... we're talking stock right? I mean it's actually easier to swap on those heads than a manual?

v10viper04

No offense but how much can a stock stang with stock tuning gain from better heads? like a max of 30hp without a tune.... again were talking stock.... a T-56 would be a harder more time consuming swap BUT would be more worthwhile in the end i think....

25thmustang

Do you consider timing being bumped (3 seconds worth of work) and fuel pressure being played with as tuning, because if not then easily 30 hp. My cars "tune" is only timing and FP. Timing is free, an AFPR is very cheap. No need for a chip or anything on these cars until your well into the 11s.

The intake isn't bad, the injectors will last to 300+ rwhp, the TB and MAF are small but work fine, and even the stock headers are actually headers, the stock midpipe has 4 cats, but is a true dual exhaust, and the stock mufflers arent bad at all. So basically a pair of heads, some timing and FP and you should be well into the mid 13s.

I did a Cobra intake, TB, header, midpipe, catback and gears and went 13.0 @ 103.

No offense taken, just tossing it back at yeah for some healthy conversation on the matter!

DerfPower509

A buddy of mine has a 91 Z28 l98 auto bone stock except for 3.73 gears. The 5.0 fox bodies never even come close to running with it. Even with the old 3.23 gears they were left in the dust. Just tellin you this is my experience.