tpivette89

a friend of mine just picked up a 350TPi 89' IROC with G92. did a full tune and replaced a few bad sensors and the car is running like new

im looking for a daily driver and found a few potential canidates:

1) 95' Trans Am LT1 auto, Ttops, fully loaded

2) 98' Mustang GT 4.6 5spd, fully loaded

what would the best ET/mph for each car be and how would they stack up against my friends IROC? if one of the two cars can beat him, hes planning on installing a full exhaust, a 2800 stall, and DRs. how would he fare then?

TTA 1387

All 3 run around the same, giving the edge to the LT1. But only if it has 3.23 gears, if it has 2.73 gears then the Mustang.

If he did those mods to the IROC, then he'd be low to mid 13's in good air and good pad.

Just MHO.

tpivette89

i thought the 99 - 04 Stangs ran equal to LT1s (low 14s), but the pre-PI Stangs (96 - 98) were considerably slower?

power ratings as follows:

98 Mustang GT - 225hp/290tq
95 Trams Am - 275hp/325tq
89 IROC 350TPI - 235hp/335tq

1brd2brd3brd4

95 T/A should have them both hands down. I havent seen a 94-98 mustang (stock on stock) that could beat my 93 Formula auto, infact I havent run across any up to 04! again, thats stock on stock. and it could be the drivers I cant say.......Just telling you what my experiance has been.In 94 the mustangs got heavy and they dropped HP (depending on where you get your info,I cant find any consistant info on mustangs)
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However the 5 speed may play a part if you are a GOOD shifter!

TylerP

You really should check out each car as if you were going to buy it. Milage,condition,ect should be considered with both of them. Reliability first,personal preferance 2nd and dont worry about the e.t. cause you can make them all as fast as you want to go.

I'd say the 95 T/A is the fastest like thay are.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

in 1/8 mile terms, the SLOWEST 2.73 geared LT1 will run 9.40's. a stock '98 gt will be running 10.0's. maybe 9.90s with a decent driver.
an stock m6 LT1 is good for 9.0's-9.1's.

1brd2brd3brd4

Tyler has a point, but dont give in to the "Great Mustang Hype" asI call it. You cant fart around here without pealing the paint off one. and every one of them is the "baddest thing on the street". When it comes to put up or shut up, they wont do either LOL

1brd2brd3brd4

My 93 with 3:73's,edlbrock headers and 3 inch cat back,Automatic went 9.15 frist pass I ever made with it.Infact first time I ever went to a drag track. These cars respond good to light mods. About the best I ever did with the 88 305 tpi car was 9.51 after iceing down the intake. It usually runs about 9.77 or so(but I thinkI have a bad injector) Hard starts,slight miss at idle, strong gas smell after initial start, every thing in ignition new.......Infact none of the mods I did to it made any diferance(3:42 gears,under drive pullys,air foil,ported MAF sensor, opened up air cleaner) Injectors could be why

tpivette89

thanks for the input guys

my ex had a 94' auto Formula with 3.23s. bone stock it went 14.0 at 100mph. with a CAI and DRs that dropped to 13.7 at 101. then a bunch of free/cheap mods + a SLP loudmouth catback were added and it ran 13.3 at 103mph. finally, LCAs and a panhard rod were added... 13.2 at 103 was the result. so its safe to say i know what a lightly modded LT1 will do

not too sure on the Stang info though. i know the pre-99s were alot slower than their newer counterparts, but i thought i read somewhere that the 98s were a bit stronger than the 96/97s. as for the shifting, lets just say i got a bone stock LT1 6spd Vette to trap 107mph in the quarter... and my current LT4 Vette with only free mods, a hotcam, and a tune i got to trap 116mph. not too shabby

keep the responses coming!

25thmustang

A 98 GT in good tune with a good driver should go middle to upper 14s. A PI swap on that car and bolt ons and your in the middle 13s all day. Stock they are not very quick, and one of the worst year Mustangs. I would prefer an LT1 car, but your best bet is to purchase something in good condition that will last!

SpecialK47150

In my experience Ford motors just aren't built as well, they're not as reliable and can't as much abuse, just my experience. My brother in law has owned multiple fords due to his father working in the ford plant, and they've all leaked like a SOB, and could never take a lot of abuse, if it wasn't properly maintained like a pristine show car, it crapped out on you.

Now, he was given an old caprice for free that had a 350 in it that had never seen maintenance in its life, and it has around 400k miles, and it had an oil leak. Driving it home something gave out and he lost all oil pressure. He drove it the rest of the way home, 19 miles, and got it home. He fixed the pump on it, and put oil in it, it cranked up and ran fine.


So due to reliability issues alone I'd take the GM product, not to mention a TA is a lot cooler looking than a stang.

25thmustang

I won't even get into it with you but if you truly think this... not sure what to tell you. Everyone has personal experiences, but seeing our 60K mile Cavalier get towed to the junkyard, and having 7 Fords at the house with over 140K miles... my experience was WAY different than yours.

SpecialK47150

Being dead serious, you're the first person I've talked to who has said they had problems with a chevy, serious mechanical issues, not stupid stuff like the heater level sticks or something. Even serious ford fans I've talked to say that they're pretty leaky and stuff, but if you're having good luck with em, go you, proper maintenance goes a long way I'm sure.

v10viper04

140,000 isn't even that much, our old 86 caprice(we sold it to ppl we know so they keep us updated) with the LG4 has gone over 300,000 miles without anything other than a starter.. its all hit and miss nowadays, every GM product we own hardly ever goes to the shop, numerous of my family members have owned Fords and had nothing but bad luck with breaking down and stuff. but they have had a few problems with the trailblazer they owned too so its hit and miss with vehicles. I'll take ANY domestic over an import though. I don't mind ford but i don't much care for them as i do GM and Chysler. all in all we have to be better than the imports! haha and that cavalier must have been wrecked to junk it at 60k..... 140k is not really anything to brag about...but when you get to over 250,000 running great is when you can start bragging haha
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Good maintenance definitely does go a LONG WAY.

1brd2brd3brd4

I change my oil........1 qt at a time.......................

tpivette89

i really dont see many "real" reliability issues with the Mustang. if there were any, i wouldnt be considering it for a DD. the only thing i know of, was the new-for-96' plastic intake manifolds had to be recalled, but i dont know if this problem was resolved by the 98' model year. i would assume it was

Chevys have issues too... take the LT1 for instance. ALL chevy small blocks leak from the intake manifold. Not to mention the valve covers, oil pan, etc. and lets not forget the dreaded opti (even though i dont see it as a hinderance, alot of people do). the glass jaw 10 bolt rear is a reliability issue (the car will be drag raced occasionally), and GM autos arent known for holding up to even bolton power if not gone through and rebuilt first

all in all, reliability wise, either car would be a good canidate. the LT1 is obviously the faster car, but the Stangs manual trans will make it more fun to drive. decisions, decisions...

25thmustang

Are you going to resort back to your old ways again and follow every post I make with your "come backs"?

You guys are right, what am I thinking, ALL FORDS ARE S*** AND ALL CHEVYS RULEEEEE!!!! ALL FORDS WILL BREAK DOWN AT 150K MILES AND ALL CHEVYS RUN TO 29347Y493202 MILES!!!!

Thank you kind sir, I have seen the light now, will sell my F250 and my fox Mustang, and PROMPTLY go out and buy a Chevy truck, and a thirdgen.





ANYWAY: tpivette89, I'm not sure why my posts always seem to get the same nutswingers who have to defend everything I say, BUT back to what you were saying, BOTH GM and FORD can be reliable. Not every Ford leaks and s***s the bed at 150K, and not every Chevy does at 60K... Both will be exactly the same amount reliable with the same care.

v10viper04

dude what is your problem? i'm stating my personal experiences and my opinion, i did not diss on ford. You gotta learn to calm down, this is ridiculous. and as far as miles go the only vehicle recorded making it to almost one million miles was a 1990 C1500 with the 350 tbi.... (and thats without even getting into the engine, just good maintinence) didn't hit one million yet, 6,000 miles away.... look it up....

http://www.local2209.org/million/defaultmillion.asp

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

I heard a Subaru can go 250,003 miles without an oilchange...

To the original post - LT1, by a landslide, stock for stock and $ for $ in mods...

1brd2brd3brd4

Who would win??? me driving all 3 of my cars at once or the kid next door on a big wheel????

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

From a dig or roll? The bigwheel has never hooked well (can we all agree that a single plastic front wheel sucks! Axle hop!) but from a roll I would have to say the bigwheel would pull pretty hard. You better spray.

Looking back, a G92 350 car thats been gone over well would be pretty quick, have the good disk rear w/ a good axle ratio, aluminum driveshaft, etc. The LT1 is probably still a couple tenths quicker in the 1/4 mile, but the TPI car wouldn't take a lot to get there. Guess its a preference thing. You'd never catch me in one of those late 90's era 'Stangs, just too rounded. The 99+ look great to me, I've even considered one on a few occasions.

SpecialK47150

[quote=tpivette89;4022580]
Chevys have issues too... take the LT1 for instance. ALL chevy small blocks leak from the intake manifold. Not to mention the valve covers, oil pan, etc. and lets not forget the dreaded opti (even though i dont see it as a hinderance, alot of people do). the glass jaw 10 bolt rear is a reliability issue (the car will be drag raced occasionally), and GM autos arent known for holding up to even bolton power if not gone through and rebuilt first
quote]


What are you talking about all chevys leak? ****, thats the perfect ford description from about everyone I know whos owned one. My uncle has over 8 old chevys, all with smallblocks, all over 200k, and a newer 1500 and suburban, never had a leak or anything else go wrong, alternators, water pumps, small things, never had a serious issue, never had a valve cover off for repairs.

Not to mention his TH350 tranny thats never been touch runs fine mated to his blown 350 in his 69 impala. So dunno of any tranny issues either.

BRIrocZ

iTrader: (1)

SpecialK47150, you're joking right? I mean leaks are like a defining characteristic of the sbc. It's not a sbc if it DOESN'T leak. I've owned three 3rd gens and the LT1 car and every one of them has leaked oil from either the timing chain cover or the rear main. Not that I care about leaks as long as they aren't cascading with oil.

Also, the 4l60e which is the trans in question here is a different sort of beast compared to the th350 so a comparison between the two isn't a good one.

xbox07

Thank you thats the funniest friggin thing i've heard all day . i almost dropped my laptop when i read it

xbox07

I hear the odometer in fords is actual a clock that starts at 150K and counts down until the inevitable explosion . jp my first car was a 91 ford taurus and the only thing it leaked was power steering fluid, until it meet its end at the hands of an irresponsible (and very bored) teenager. 70 on a dirt road into a tree and it started right back up like a champ (not that it was in any condition to move).

SpecialK47150

Never had a Chevy small block with any sort of leak, oil or otherwise, and never had a ford that didn't leak like a SOB.

1brd2brd3brd4

People......... just dont give him the satisfaction...................

SpecialK47150

Just mine and my family/friends personal experiences with fords and chevys.

RedHawkLB9

anything to beat your friend?...Mustang FTW

v10viper04

i will bet money on the LT1 Trans AM being the fastest then the stang still quite a ways back then the Camaro right behind the mustang and close behind.

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

I think the thirdgen will handle the 98 'Stang no problem.

v10viper04

i agree, the only thing the stang has going for it is the weight.... otherwise its worthless garbage. haha

tpivette89

sorry, dumb question, but what does FTW mean?

anything to beat my friend? im way past that. honestly, my weekend cruiser would destroy his IROC, i just wanted to see if one of these two cars would potentially beat him

FYI: heres a little more info on the two cars...

95' Trans Am - 96k miles, purple exterior, black cloth interior, $4200

98' GT Stang - 87k miles, black exterior, black cloth interior, $4500


so it looks like, bone stock, ...

95' Trans Am - high 13s
98' GT Stang - mid 14s
89' IROC - low 14s

right?

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

FTW = for the win

As I see it, stock:
95' Trans Am - high 13s
98' GT Stang - high 14s
89' IROC - mid 14s
- and there is a lot of varience in that, we've all seen higher and lower passes from those cars in stock condition, but thats a pretty decent ballpark.

If your buddy goes ahead with the full exhaust, converter, and drag-radials approach he might crack off a 13 based on a really hard launch. A stock 350TPI motor doesn't really need much converter, his money is probably better spent elsewhere.

I don't know what the Mustang hating is here - I like my third gen, but its not the only pony at the show.

25thmustang

If the case is your weekend car will beat his, I wouldn't even factor that into the decision on buying the DD. I would factor the cars this way:

-Mileage
-MPG
-Color
-Cost of ownership
-Fun to drive

Personally, I don't like autos, so that would remove the LT1 from MY list. If you prefer auto for a DD, than it moves it up in yours. If you can't stand purple, again remove, if you love it, move it up. If it's truly neck and neck between which car you want, then performance might be the deciding factor. In my eyes there are more important things to consider when buying a DD, and performance isn't one (hell I had a slow Audi A4, and now an F250).

tpivette89

1) milage is similar, the difference wont mean anything at the milage both cars are at
2) now that gas is MUCH cheaper than it was 6 months ago, mpg isnt really an issue, especially since both cars have similar mpg ratings
3) i DEFINATELY prefer the Stangs' black hue over the Trans Ams' "tinky winky" color
4) dont really know the cost of ownership of the GT, but id assume itd be the same for both cars
5) fun to drive factor? tough call... the LT1 will be about 5mph faster in the quarter, but the Mustang is a stick

all in all, i want a new (to me) DD thats a little bit quick. ive been driving an Ecotec 5 speed Sunfire and its, how you say, boring. its time for me to step up to something that actually inspires me to drive to work everyday

oh, and my weekend cruiser is a hotcammed, 96', LT4 6 speed Corvette. much, MUCH faster than a stock, or bolton IROC... but i thought itd be cool if i could say my DD could beat his "racecar"

v10viper04

Well if you want to say that get the Trans AM. hands down will beat him no problem plus get good gas mileage if you stay out of it... my Maro' costs less than $300 every 6 months to insure and now that gas is down i have no problem keeping a full tank.

25thmustang

If thats the case, between these two cars your looking at the Trans Am being an ugly color, and an auto against it, but quicker and better handeling for it. The Mustang has the fun factor of being stick shift, and a better color, but slower, and less inspiring.

In the end, I say buy the car that you like best. If it were me, and I wanted a quick, fun DD and had to choose, I would choose the Mustang. I prefer stick, and the color would be a big choice.

Either way, good luck with the new one, whichever it is!

TTA 1387

A Saab, I believe, hit 1 million. It was falling apart and they gave him a new one and put his old one on display. Over in Norway or Sweden.

RedHawkLB9

oh sorry...it just sounded like that my bad bro
weekend car-5spd
dd-auto

thats how i see it

v10viper04

My DD is an auto, but it will be my weekend car as well, its all depends on what YOU want. If it were me i would snag that trans am i very much dislike that style stang, its ugly to me. but how can a stick be fun in a slow car? lol too bad the trans am wasn't a stick it would be even fater and funner lol. its all depends on what you like. my friend has driven stick since he started driving and he says he wants an auto now b/c stick is too much of a pain to be a DD. but thats also just his .

25thmustang

Daily driven a stick car (20K miles a year) for 6 years and loved every second of it. Have an auto now, simply because the truck I wanted was an auto!

The stick vs auto thing is 150% personal preference as I would NEVER own an auto car, if that car can be had with a manual transmission, and other feel the opposite.

SpecialK47150

sticks may be fun, a well built auto handles the power better and actually shifts quicker does it not?

And the TA purple isn't that bad, and I'd rather drive a pink TA with purple polka dots than a stang lol

25thmustang

A built auto designed for racing will shift faster.

A built stick for racing wont even be noticable if it shifts slower.

You can build manual transmissions that will blow your mind how fast you can shift them. Have one in our 9 second car, and had one in our old 11 second car. Both were smooth as butter and could be shifted as fast as humanly possible!

Now this is MY opinion, but seeing a 9-10 second auto, I could care less, nothing to me seems more boring to watch or drive. Seeing a 9 or 10 second stick shift car, theres not much I can watch (car related) that is fun to see. A well driven stick shift is an art form, a well driven auto, would be faster with your GF driving it, and any car where my GF can jump in and drive it faster, well no thanks.

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

+1 for the sheer joy of well driven standard transmissions! My 3rd Gen has a super fast shifting 700R4, roasts the tires into second, chirp third, the whole nasty automatic deal, and yea, it can outshift any manual tranny out there. Would I trade it for a T-56, absolutely, without a second thought.

I've got this old winter rat 1992 Escort Wagon w/ 208,000 miles on it, stick shift is about the sloppiest ever, silly weak clutch, shot trans/motor mounts, the whole car is a wreck. I still love to drive it because its a stick shift, and there is just an art about well driven stick. Seamless gear changes, double clutch and rev matching on the way down, clutchless up and down, all those little manual trans. only extras, that stuff makes it fun. And for all the Ford nay-sayers - that little 1.9 still runs like a champ, makes its factory rated 88hp, and knocks down 32+mpg with my lead foot behind the wheel.

All that aside, I don't think I could get past that particular year Mustang's short-comings. (in my opinon) If it was just ugly, or just slow, I could deal with it. Both, I would have to take the LT1 car.

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

FYI: 95 is the best year to have for an LT1 for a f-body. OBDI pcm which can be tuned for more hp than OBDII, vented opti, electronic controlled auto trans. However, you can interchange things from other years of LTX.

tpivette89

now thats a bit over the top... an auto trans doesnt mean the car has an "on/off" switch, and alls you have to do to get the most out of the car is get in and floor it on the last amber. i seriously doubt my GF (or yours for that matter unless she drag races on a regular basis) or even you yourself can just hop into any 8 sec auto car and rip of the same times as the guy who drives it down the strip every weekend

theres some skill involved in drag racing an auto car... not as much as a manual car obviously, but to say someones GF can run the same times in any auto car as the experienced driver of said vehicle is rediculous

tpivette89

this statement is even more rediculous

Paragus77

Given the choices I'd personally take the mustang, or look for a nice Third-gen. IMHO the 93-97 Firebirds are UGLY AS SIN, and the Mustang looks nice when it's clean. I know the 'Bird is probably faster, but if all you want to do is beat your buddy's IROC, it should do the job, right? If it doesn't, its not like performance parts are few and far between for the Mustangs. One more thing, my best friend has a mustang, I love arguing Ford vs. GM with him, it just adds a little more competitive spirit into a friendly rivalry.

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

9:15, 9:51 and 9:77 are we talking about 1/4 mile or 1/8th mile? I don't care how much ice you put on a 305TPI you can't get it to run 9:51 in 1/4mile.