i8urrice

ok, i need to make some kind of switch on this car....i'm either going to take it carbureted, so i don't have any more computer/electrical problems to worry about, or maybe change it to speed density.....how expensive is it to do that..and where can i get a kit to switch it over......also...is it worth my time and effort...i heard a few people on this forum say that speed density is where they can get real power out of their TPIs.....heard others say that going w/ a Carb. is the best bet....i need help here!!!

tpi_roc

SD rocks


Which is exactly why you can never find a harness....

If you've got a post 87 harness just repin, get an ECM from one of the interchange vehicles, order a memcal, and buy a map and you're done.


If you want simple, carbs have worked great for eons

Its up to you.

Swapmaster

I am going to do this swap latter this summer and have already
downloaded the instructions and got the computer. It looks to
be very simple. Our MAF harness has more than enough wires
already in it. Everything stays the same except you use the MAF
sensor wires for the MAP sensor and just move the wires around
in the ECM connectors. If no one puts up the instructions I can
put them up in a day or so.

10th wedding anniv. today so not much time to play right now.
Bought the mama a new ride and have to prep it. She want's the
Jag but that ain't gonna happen.

88TPI406GTA

How fast do you want to go? There are people on this board in the mid 11's with a MAF setup. I am not sure what your goal is, but the argument should be ANY EFI vs. carb. I think that it becomes a huge cost issue running faster than about high 11's with EFI. Carb is still the way to go into the 10's or faster...

If you are thinking high 12's and think you NEED to switch to SD...you have bad info.

tpi_roc

And I'll bet ya that any of these Maf vehicles you speak of If they were to drop on SD they'd instantly lower maybe .3-.5, just like mike davis.

They might be able to run an 11 with Maf, but that doesn't mean that the MAF isn't the weakest link in their chain.

88TPI406GTA

Tuning is tuning...the point is what are the goals and how much do you want to mess around to achieve them...

I am still waiting to hear what the goals actually are, both in terms of HP and/or 1/4 mile time to be more specific.

At this point, it is still a EFI vs. carb debate until the goals are made more clear.

tpi_roc

His question has more angles than EFI vs Carb.

SD may very well offer him something that he's looking for to remain interested in EFI and I'd certainly rather see him tackle SD than switch to a carb.

You say tuning is tuning, I say an air flow restriction is a restriction. Maf sensors are in the way, Maf tables are certainly less tunable, SD offers tuning advantages and not speaking from experience but making a very educated guess I'd say SD is going to be a hell of alot more accepting to boost since you dont have to plum a maf in the way and dont have the hex limits of 255.

88TPI406GTA

You don't need to convince me of the benefits of SD. Even though I don't post there much anymore...I still follow the DIY-PROM board and the topics therein. I have also read the Final Answer info from Grumpy on SD and Trax's posts on it too. Yes, it has potential and is a better deal over about 450 HP, due to that being roughly the point at which the MAF starts to become a real restriction.

That 450 HP limit was told to me by Doug Rippie Motorsports here in MN who has been racing Corvettes since the TPI was introduced. They know....

What about boost? I again re-read the original question...no mention of a power adder. Hence, once again, we need more specific information to provide proper direction.

I8urrice, it is your turn here...

tpi_roc

Boost is only an example of one of many things SD does far better than Maf

DSaylor

So what are the other advantages of SD?
Just wondering because it would make the ram air setup I'm working on alot easier and a little less flow restriction couldn't hurt. (plus I dont look forward to replacing the mass air sensor when it goes)

anyways, I always thought mass air gave you more flexibility, and kept your car dialed in under changing conditions.

I'm looking into burning my own chips, but it will probably be a few months before I get started on that.

What would I need to change my 85 over. Any tech articles?

tpi_roc

Thank you for yet another advantage of SD

cost...

Buy one maf sensor and you could have swapped to SD 3 times..


You're correct on the MAF to a point, if you're not into prom tuning its a little bit more flexible, however as soon as you crack open a prom MAF is far less flexible, Map is where its at.

i8urrice

well...my main issue of wanting a change is b/c i'm having alot of problems w/ my current setup....right now i'm having a problem starting (i have another post on here about that), a problem i can't identify right now......which is why i thought to go w/ a carb. b/c it takes alot of the guesswork out of whether or not it's a computer/sensor problem with the car. but i know SD is alot less restrictive and i read that the ECM can't handle high flows through the mass air, so if i stay w/ FI i need something that will work with heavy mods...i'm all stock right now....i'm just tired of mustangs wiping the street with me......the mass air is way too restrictive.....also...whatever i do i'm gonna need advice also to remove the A/C and the smog stuff......that crows up the engine way too much.........i just need a system that works overall better, for reliability and performance than the mass air FI setup that i currently have

tpi_roc

If you want simple, you want carb, certainly not SD.

If you cant figure out your MAF system why would a hybrid setup be any easier for you...

88TPI406GTA

Just to clarify something...I have Tunercat and have looked at the 6E mask (89) and also the 32B (87-88) and think that the 6E code is pretty defined. I know that MAF is working ok up to my redline of 5500 right now, but I also have the stock heads.

SD doesn't give you any "magic" abilities, just better defined. I also think that with more radical combos, without tuning, MAF would work better initially. The key with SD is to be into tuning your own stuff...then the possibilities over time are much better than MAF...I think that is what tpi_roc is trying to say.

If you want to do some research on it, simply do a search on SD and MAF in the DIY-PROM board. Grumpy and Traxion really have some great contribution to help understand both.

88TPI406GTA

I used to have a carb setup on my 406 in a different car...the reality is that tuning a carb sucks too...and the average person can't really do it easily and effectively for cheap to get it nailed down.

An EFI person on a budget would get a cheap laptop, Craig Moates software for scanning/diagnostics and and ALDL cable. It will tell you WAY more than just a carb. Also, with EFI, it is more reliable.

What is the other post about starting? There are some pretty good, well-defined possibilities for helping you solve that problem. Also, the hassle of switching over to carb right now isn't worth it.

One more time...please state your HP goals/ 1/4 mile time for our best responses. There is a lot of knowledge here that can help you, but you have to provide more info...

i8urrice

my goals are to make this car as fast as humanly possible........no actual number goals..but i want it fast....and be able to diagnose problems easier than i can now

88TPI406GTA

Well...it is a start anyway....

I think you need to find a HP goal and work from there...as for diagnostic capability, EFI is excellent at it...if you have the tools I mentioned before.

The cool thing about a diagnostic program is that you can see the sensor data in realtime from the ECM's point of view and see if any particular sensor is out of whack. Here is my example: When my GTA was in storage during the winter, I plugged in the laptop with Moates software and with the key on, but engine not running, I was able to see current batt voltage, TPS signal, coolant temp sensor signal, etc...I found that my TPS wasn't registering correctly. It would was supposed to put out a signal of .54 volts at idle and up to 4.5 or so at WOT. It was only going up to 4 volts at WOT...so the ECM was thinking I wasn't at WOT and I actually had the TB blades open all the way...That helped cure a WOT problem for sure...and it was my first diag experience!!!

HTH you make a decision....

tpi_roc

"As fast as humanly possible"

Talk to john force


he sure dont run TPI

Jasper89ROC

There is a reason that GM went back to MAF after 3 years. My opinion(and alot of others) SD blows!

tpi_roc

They did NOT go "back"

They use both.

m23haz

Thats why there are so many fast Mustangs around. In one day my friends 5.0 went from a 14.2 car to a 12.8 car, literally, with a head and cam swap. NOTHING ELSE. NO CHIP NEEDED! Why? Because it is a Mass air car, and it adjusts to changes better.
SD sucks for people like me who cant do their own chip (cause I dont have the time), or dont want to pay someone like Ed Wright $350 to do it. SD is good however for the people who can tune their own chips.
Its just not good for the average car enthusiast.

tpi_roc

Hahaha

:hail: :lala: :hail: :lala: :hail:

SATURN5

sure...

MAF systems by design allow more radical changes before the puter has a fit. SD will work just fine once the changes are accounted for. If your going to boost..well then, go with a 749 SYTY ECM with a 730 V8 memcal and run the $58 code. No muss no fuss, and completely hacked. But thats just my two cents.

tpi_roc

Is that the typhoon ecm?

SATURN5

yes, also in turbo sunbirds and some quad 4's.

tpi_roc

So how did that one end up completely hacked before some older more used ecms?

SATURN5

quite simply..the SYTY guys put the time in to do it. cheers, Bob