Quote: Originally posted by formul8!! On a 150hp shot of Nitrous, yes. A heavy '92 Z28 with just the mods listed and no further proof? I am not saying you did not run those times, just need some more information about the car and its setup. I WILL have timeslips,witnesses and if possible, video. I can witness Oh yeah and Dylan those A-520's that you love are going out of production, the only thing yokohama has now is the ES-100's IM not sure if I like them but i havent heard any feedback on em yet. -Mark

Man, I heard about the Yoko A520's!! It sucks because it is an awesome and affordable tire that really sticks like glue.

the stock drive shaft on an LS1 f-body is alot stronger than a 3RD gen F-body, the ls1 driveshaft is 3" and the 3rd gen drive shaft is 2-5/8, thats what i measured.

you know that annoying vibration your car has at 70-95(depending on rearend ratio) its gone in myiroc, due to a 99 LS1 3" driveshaft.

Well I can't scan the slip, but i can give you all the numbers:
Lane: L
R/T: .641
60': 1.754
330': 5.246
660: 8.213
660 mph: 83.31
1000': 10.757
1320': 12.904
1320 mph: 104.66

And actually on a 150 shot, it's been 11.61@ 114

Car weighs 3580 with me in it...don't know what else to tell you guys. car has el-stock-o monroe shocks all the way around, no suspension mods, stock converter, stock tranny just rebuilt. Car ran 13.88 at 99 when i got it with just stickys, headers got me .35 and 3 mph, rebuilding the tranny got me another .3 with the stock converter, then i ot the wild idea that i could go 12's. So i put gears in it, pulleys, and driveshaft and went 12.97 on the first run..cooler air later in the night got it down to 12.90. It's a daily driver with 149K on it.

Are you sure the previous owner didn't build a 383 and forget to tell you about it?

Those are some very impressive numbers....

yea, what wyclef said

It'll be real tough, but add the Holley Stealth Ram to your list of mods and gets lots of traction. Good luck.

Wow!! I know on the board theres a dude that went 14.1 stock and another dude (not on this board) that went 13.9 with just a Flowmaster, both L98's of course.

Don't forget guys a different track at different times of the year can make a huge difference. He ran that 12.90 at HRP one of the fastest tracks in the world (??? that is what I hear anyway). It does seem outrageous since he doesn't have an aftermarket intake, though. It seems convenient that he has a nitrous system, too...Maybe spraying it toward the end??? 104 mph is what LS1's are doing stock. I know he isn't making near the power of that and probably at the same weight.

Stock L98:
I am not calling you a liar, but why hasn't this been discussed before? It seems like your car is a freak and would have been in some magazine or something.

Also, are you the original owner of your car?

I'm sure I could take my car to Cecil County Raceway in Maryland and run at least a 1/10 or two faster than here in Illinois.

I am a little suspicious of that 12.90 he ran too without any video or other proof.

Man, this thread won't die!

Well after a whole whack of reading i figured i was oblgated to post. i think the 12 are in ur near future man. i think its graet how u tune more then spend. people dont know how much hp there giving up bhy not tuning and matching everything. Also im skeptical of those times to. for a basically stock car i dunno

if your doing this in a long tube runner intake car that runs out of power at 4500-4800rpm then keep those 2.77 gears that came with the 9 bolt in the iroc. its the most optimal gear for quarter mile runs for a true tpi's powerband. 2.73 (10 bolt) or 2.77 (9 bolt) would be the quickest way to get 12.999. i know it sounds strange but look and see where the rpms are at when crossing the line. with the 2.XX its in its power band. anything else makes it be past its peak power point. those gears keep the motor in the power range throughout the track. trust me. ive been through this millions of times. all kinds of research went into this, because i first thought it was bs. but its true

Possible? Yes.
Likely? No.

Some cars just run better than others out of the factory, it's called production variance or some crap like that. Who knows, if you get one that's created a little more equal than others, that's even better for you.

I have an '86 Vette.. new stock motor/tranny, headers, true duals, no pre cats, 3.07 gears, and some other little crap.. I'm shooting for 13.7 @ 101. I don't plan to see 12's on stock H/C/I but it'll be fun seeing how fast I can get it till I start taking things apart.

If you can get an F-car running 12.anything on stock heads/cam/intake then I applaud you! That's a hell of an accomplishment and i'd love to see what can be done with further mods. I've owned a few L98 third gens and I definitley think alot of performance potential is there.

On a side note i'd have to agree with what was posted earlier.. I have 3.70 gears in my old IROC and it definitley ran out of steam fast.. took off nicely but it went out of it's powerband way too fast, and i LOVED te 3.27's in my old GTA ragtop!

it's possible. i didnt see formul8 mention anyhitng about a convertor. 8" and 9" units create less heat, carry less fluid, and in turn create less rotating mass you's drop 3 tenths with the right convertor. just something to look into. ditch the front endlinks for the track or if your worrired about weight that much take it off.

just because you change tires doesnt mean you'll 60' better, unless you were spinning to begin. if you get a little convertor ' you'll probably need et streets!

Nick,

Already got that covered. I have a built 700R4 with a Trans Go shift kit and a Continental 10" 2500 non-lockup converter. It weighs about 18lbs less than stock.

Only need to have the dual converters welded up, the alternator rebuild kit and after cat Y-pipe to arrive from backorder, and install a tubular torque arm and the car will be ready for test-n-tune!

I will loosen the front swaybar a little but will not remove it. I am trying to keep the car as close to how I run it on the street as possible.

give it ur best shot, i remember when people told me id never see 14.6 and when i wanted to hit thirteens they really ripped me a new ******* for it. but when i got that 13.9 slip all those non believers turned into the dude u have a sick 305 group. i know of someone that has done exactly what u are planning to do and his car is a high 12s car, so it is possible and the firebird is a bit more aerodynamic.

That is exactly why I picked the Formula. Biggest motor in the lightest body and more aerodynamic than a Z28/IROC. The ground effects on the GTA and T/A are off set by the weight gain of the body pieces and other luxury items.

in stock form that powerband is about right, but with a ported plenum headers and runners the powerband is extended to a better 5200rpms where the stock l98 cam is supposed to perform to. with the ported plenum and headers with free flowing exhaust on my 305 it pulls right passed 5k now and i usually shift at 5200. it had 3.08s in it and i just swapped in 3.27s these gears seem perfect now i love it, but before i used to go through the traps around 5200 revs in third gear now im gonna have to shift to 4th right before the end, we will see what happens

hey best of luck to ya its when people say its not possible than it gives you even more reason to do it so show them how it done if I to plan to be there some day a 12.99 is very impressive from a stock bottm end car.

It is entirely possible to have ur third gen pull off 12s. Anything is possible if u put your mind to. Everyone is saying they've seen corvettes pull it off, yeah thats because corvettes are much lighter, the fiberglass body helps tremendously.

I don't know if it to late but I have seen several LT1 cars running deep 11's on a single cat mufflex y-pipe I sure they can make one for you and you can save the weight on the second cat.

I met a TGO member named bjukanski over the weekend and he mentioned he picked up some crazy HP and TQ on his '86 TPI Vette by doing nothing more than switching to the Super Ram. If I cannot hit 12's on the LTR setup, then I will go with that and see what happens.


12's or BUST!!! :rockon:

If it going to happen it is probly going to come out of a 90 iroc Unless i have been beaten to it. I will be the first. I will boldly go where no iroc has gone before. Yea right! i am not going to wait that long to build the engine. I am sure it can be done with my car infact i think i can even do it on street tires. I bought the car and i am going to mod it for me not to prove a point.

SO DID YOU DO IT ?? I'VE BEEN WATCHING THIS FREAKIN' THREAD FOR LIKE A YEAR NOW, WHAT'S UP???

Take it to the friggin track already.....

Even if you run a 13.2 or something, it doesn't mean you won't be able to go 12.99 in the future.

Took it to the track, but the conditions wound up not being very good and everyone was running .5 sec and 3-4mph off. I will not even post my times. Plus, the track I went to is known for being slow.

I plan on going to another track soon on a day with much better weather.

The car WILL do it.

Good luck man, having recently moved to central Illinois I'm in your neck of the woods, and love to see fast cars, so have at it. I assume you've done all the free mods, ported the plenum and such. Relocated the manifold temp sensor yet? When I did that it was worth a couple hundredths.
How about an exhaust cut out? Some people have done well with em, some not, but worth a try.
You could go up to 1.65 or even 1.7 ratio rockers, they are available, dunno about self aligning though. Check with comp or crane.
Run synthetic in everything, engine, tranny, rearend, I've had good luck with royal purple.
Check into race fuels, the better ones burn faster than regular gas so are worth a few hp even when you don't need 'em for compression reasons (beware you're cat though, most if not all are leaded I understand). But CHECK, some burn faster, some burn slower, the info is out there but you need to find it.
Make sure your battery is well charged and remove the alternator belt for your run. It won't be worth a hole lot, but even 1 hundredth could make the difference.
Run your pcv system to the exhaust or a vacuum pump, once again it won't be a huge gain but ...

How are you hooking up? if you're still spinning 'em a bit try going back to a smaller diameter rim with a super sticky tire or slick, see if that sidewall flex will give you a bit.
In your quest for weight removal don't ignore weight transfer, i know one guy who actually ran faster with a manhole cover in his trunk to put more weight on the a** end.
Check the actual weight of those wheels, you'd be suprised what some of the aftermarket wheels actually weigh.
Make sure your radiator puke tank is very close to empty when the engine is hot, why carry around extra water ?
Get a real custom chip instead. Make friends with someone with a prom burner and scantool. Be suprised what differences even stock engines have in what they like, much less one with some mods on it, so an off the shelf once size fits all is leaving power on the table, No chip manufacturer can dial the car in perfectly without some test and tune with the car.
Oh, and make sure air has some way to leave the engine compartment, preferably out the back of the hood somewhere, it'll really help stability at speed (a lot less front end lift at 100+) and remove some drag. If your formula hood has the hump with an opening at the rear you're set, if not look into it.
Everything else has been pretty well covered I think. Keep us posted.

If you change your mind about porting the heads it'll be no problem, there's a lot of flow left on the table there. Check out the post in my sig.

formula more aerodynamic than an IROC? i dont think so, Tim. ill give you the lighter thing, but not the aerodynamics. the nose helps, but it don't beat out the IROC...lets see some drag coefficient numbers


Josh

The nose helps... but it's not more aerodynamic? You're basing the iroc and formula being the same on what, absolutely nothing? There is evidence on this website, I'm too lazy to find it though.

i read your post a couple times and i can't tell if your arguing my point or his...but if i'm wrong, then prove it. and ill be man enough to apologize and say, good find. i had a Formula, i LOVED it. im not trying to bash it. i just could have sworn that i heard the IROC was more aerodynamic. if im wrong, then im wrong. just didnt think the Formula was more aerodynamic.


Josh

The headlight pockets on the Camaro's cause a huge amount of wind drag. Install a set of covers and your .cd will go up quite a bit.

Don't you mean go down? I seem to recall about a .2 difference in .cd in favor of the firebird due to the hideaway headlights.

yea, i CAN see that. i want some of the clear headlight covers, but i cant seem to find any. anyone know where to find them?


thanks
Josh

D'OH!!

I meant it will go down.

What do ya'll consider STOCK heads?

MY engine is untouched and I'm not far away according to my 1/8th mile times (never run qtr). I could put roller rockers on it and a Vigilante converter to match...but why try? I'd just be putting off the real mods till later and wasting one tune on the Vigilante. BTW, my car is full trim except for the nasty carpet I ripped out and my radio tore up so its out too.

My induction is Accel intake, LTRs, and ported plenum w/ 48 mm TB

I know it's possible. My buddy has a 92 Z. Had stock heads cam bottom-end and a Wildly ported TPI on it. Ran 12.9, only thing is he has some good susp. work done. The ign. is there too. It's possible. Car is nowhere near that setup now but it'll still run. Keep your mind on your goal and you will achieve.


Chris

I think it's possible. It was (still kinda is) my goal to hit 12s NA with stock heads, cam, etc using the TPI setup. Then I got my LS1 and have been spending too much money on it.

I run a 13.7 @ 100 all day in mid 80 degree weather. That's with a high 1.9x 60' on street tires.

Full exhaust, underdrive pullies, hyperjunk chip, and !emissions have gotten me this far. To knock of the remaining .7 seconds won't be that hard imo.

Was planning on an ported aftermarket base (accel supperram base would be nice), ported plenum, and some AS&M or TPIS large tube runners. With all that, I don't know if I could expect .2-.3 or not.

Add a decent stall, some nice sticky tires, obviously some suspension, possibly a 12 bolt if the rear won't hold, and I think I shouldn't be too far off. The remaining could be acheived with some weight reduction.

*shrug* Just my thoughts.

I know one thing: switching to the Mini-ram intake will get me deep in to the 12's on the stock heads/cam/bottom end. I want to do it on the LTR.

I have no problem taking LS1 and LT1 cars by 2-3 tenths half track. After that, it falls on it's face badly. I believe it is the chip and the timing I have it set at.

Time to stiart learning how to burn PROMS!!

definitly possible my 305 is up to 100.2 mph in the 1/4m and even with a ****ty as 2.454 60 in at a 14.3, doin the math if i were to get it to a 1.8 its a 13.007. id expect a 350 to be able to do that.

I would like to see the 305 pulling 100 mph. traps with a stock cam and bottom end. The only way I see it happening is with a power adder. I'm not sayin' that your lieing, I just don't believe it 100%. That's just me though.

Chris

it does pull those times. maybe he will post his slip

when it had the stock cam it did 97-98mph, it has a stock grind LT1 cam now

with:
LT1 Cam - up to 100.2mph this spring
Descreened MAF Sensor
Ported Plenum
Centerforce Dual Friction
Poly Tranny Mount
Poly Torque Arm Mount
3.27 9 Bolt Rear - .2 tenth reduction this spring
Modified Air Box
K&N Filters
Dynomax Headers
Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust
Cat Delete
Throttle Body Coolant Bypass
IAT Sensor Relocated
Emissions Delete
HVAC Delete
12* Base Timing
Rear Seats, Spare & Jack Removed For Racing

my best time last years season:

with:
Stock MAF
Stock Cam
Stock Heads
Ported Plenum
Centerforce Dual Friction
Poly Tranny Mount
Poly Torque Arm Mount
Stock 3.08 Gears
Modified Air Box
K&N Filters
Dynomax Headers
Dynomax Cat Back Exhaust
Cat Delete
Throttle Body Coolant Bypass
IAT Sensor Relocated
Emissions Delete
AC Delete
Stock Timing
Rear Seats, Spare & Jack Removed For Racing

and by the way i never stated it had a stock cam in my original post.

Those are some good times for a 305 but no way you're going to see a 13.007 if you cut a 1.8 60ft, that's a bit optimistic.

i remember when somebody was sayin the same thin about him hittin mid 14's.




and somebody else again about hittin 13's.

mathmatically a 13.007 is possible. real world most likely not. but then again who'd a thought id hit 13.9 last year.

Look at my sig, I my opinion, there's no way in Hell you can get that good of a time with stock heads on a 3rd gen car. However, if you attach this motor to a motorcycle or Rail, you might easily see that kind of time. Sorry, I'm not trying to insult you, I just have spent some dough and are not quite where you wanna be yet either and I changed alotta stuff. I did my homework too, and found my current combo to be a good canidate for a street legal 11's car when I get the stealth ram.

However, if you do manage to get there stock, I wanna know, that's highly incredible and I would cry like a baby after knowing I spent all that money and didn't have to.

Good Luck!!!!

u should be crying. kus i know for a fact there has to be somebody who has already done it. you jus seem bitter that these guys are so close on stock cars and u emptied your wallet and have the same if not worse results