TheWraith

you said stock heads, cam, and bottom end, and no power adders. So I'm gonna make some assumptions otherwise.

The best way to do this is to make sure you're always in your optimum powerband, and you're always putting maximum power to the ground in your powerband.

If you stick with the stock long runner TPI stuff, you're on the right track. Your best powerband is gonna be 2500 - 5000 tops.
So you're gonna want to get some slicks and 3.70's like you said. You'll need to launch at 2500 with little or no slippage (and hopefully no breakage either), shift at 5000 dead on, and go through the traps at 5000rpm in top gear.

I personally say you have a better shot at it with a stealth ram setup, a ~3000 stall converter (and a hard launch), and 4.10s, shifting in the high 5000's.

it's obviously in your best interest to lose weight wherever you can too. Empty the interior as far as you intend on going, lightweight wheels, fiberglass body parts, only as much gas as you need, etc. There's a lot of weight to be lost and power to be gained under the hood depending how far you want to take it. Manual steering box, no AC, etc. Hell even taking a big crap before your run could be the difference between a 13.001 and a 12.999.

:lala:

As far as those few extra horsepower to pick up, i'd run a cutout at the track and hopefully not use the cat unless you have an excellent flowing cat and catback, a good cold air intake will help a bit, and impeccable tuning is necessary as well.

gmgod

I'm sure he broke down and bought heads and a cam by now.

BuckeyeROC

This guy is close in an L98 Vette:

Copied from Beach Bum's Proven Setup Page, "* Steven N --- Corvetteforum member "90vette" has really surprised me and I am sure others with his impressive running stock L98 set-up. With the exception of the 52 mm TB and ported plenum, his motor is 100% stock, and yet he is challenging the 12's.... which is unheard off from an L98. Its his goal to run 12's with this set-up before he makes engine modifications, and I think with some good air and perhaps some front skinnies he can do it. I would guess that he only has right around 280 HP... who says you need gobs of HP to run in the 12's.... Stay tuned !!!

90 Corvette - auto

Performance: 1.75 60 ft, 13.17 @ 103.03 mph

Modificatons: Stock Motor, Cold air induction, K&N air filter, Air foil, 52 mm TB, Ported Plenum, AFPR, MSD 6A, Taylor 8.5 mm plug wires, rapid fire spark plugs, No pre-cats, high flow main cat, Magnaflow mufflers, 3.07 gears, PI 2600 rpm Vigalante torque converter. Raceweight: 3400 lbs"

formul8!!

Nope, no cam or heads yet.

I still need to install the headers, purchase the ignition and 1.6RR's and burn a proper chip.

So far, I have taken over 70lbs out of the car. I think a set of drag radials with skinnies are mandatory because I now have the Firehawk rims on with 275/40's.

I still think it's possible. I will be attempting this next month at US 41 raceway in Morocco,IN.

If I do not make it, then will do what I have to do over the winter and try when the tracks open in the spring and the air is still nice a cold.

Soulrev

I'll be there to cheer ya on man. That's awesome to see someone who'd rather get more power through a lot of tuning, rather than a lot of paychecks.

mikesstkiroc

you need that bottom end work to push you into the 12.99 range. The only other answer is nitros but even then you will need some bottom end like a cam to use the nitros or you will blow your motor. Good Luck.

brian89transam

You have to have a bigger cam w/ nitrous or you'll blow your motor??????

"I CONFUSED"

90Iroc-Zee

wuts up man!!! YOU SHOULD WAIT FOR THE THIRDGEN GATHERING THE 19th OF OCT!!! I got a stock internal 305 that people just laugh at me for thinking im gonna get in 13s...ran 14.4 @ 96mph w/2.2 60ft -

- tb bypass
- ported plenum
- adv timing
- edelbrock tes headers
- edelbrock catback
- tpis airfoil
- homemade ram air
- k&n
- 8.8mm Accel wires
- Accel cap
- mobil 5w-30 synthetic oil

now i have

- aluminum rims
- nitto 555R 245s
- afpr
- pullies
- chip
- !smog
- !cats

I think if *** loves me ill pull a 13.88

I may have more, but oh i cant remember, tho i dont have drivetrain loss due to T5 i say go for it man...the both of us can upset a lot of people that day or make them go oh yea i want RRs and alum driveshaft but thats not until NEXT summer, i think with stock bottom end i can push mid 13s with this baby, course a superram or holley stealth ram will have to go inplace of the crappy tpi. some injectors and fp would be even better too. taking off a/c would help also.

you should try a ram air setup, or cold air intake, it could help ya out a lot. or try exhaust cutouts good luck man and let me know when u go down there ill cheer ya on. i know wut its like to be underdog

IROC212

iTrader: (1)

My friends laughed at me when I told them I was going to try to run door to door with my friend's Chevelle (ran 13.80's) We went to the track, I did everything to the little 305 I took the P/s,A/c belts off, disconnected the knock sensor, drag radials on 15 inch wheels, sway bars I mean everything. I iced the intake down for an hour and a half. Finally ran 13.71@93mph, converter locked in second and third. With 167,000 miles to boot. Who's laughing now. Hell even with 223,000mi on it, she still runs 14.60's shifting at 4500. I want 12.0's though with the new motor. Even if I have to bottle it.

SinthetikIroc

iTrader: (1)

if you put a high stall converter on there i def forsee it as possible. something like 2800 or so.

86ZZ4

I also live in tulsa,were these times done at the Tulsa track?? That is some increadable MPH for the mods you have,as well as ET!! PM me,I would really like to see this car.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

You guys who don't think it can be done are smoking. The physics of drag racing are power to weight, gearing, and traction.

With a decent stall, over 3500, 3.70 or even better 4.10's or 4.56's, slicks, and the proper weight reduction, he can hit a 12.99.

The et is a function of all of the above, mph is horsepower.

A neighbor back in Detroit ran 12.98 @ 98 mph in a 71 buick skylark, 455, turbo 400, 4.10 gears, slicks and I can't remember what size convertor he had. Can't remember how much he modded the motor because of memory, but he made good money with it at the street races because it hooked and booked. Wasn't real fast at about half-track, and you could pass him with some decent power, but on the street, it's hard to make up 50-100 feet on street tires with a lot of power. All the guys with nitrous and blowers on street tires would get their money taken because he would come out of the hole so hard, it was too hard for the street tired car to make up the difference before the finish line. Purely physics, even with a heavy car like that.

Look at the super stock guys. They are running 10's with 305's and the stock tpi with larger duration cams, higher compression, lighter weight, high stalls and gears, and suspension mods.

ninety1TAgta

I definately think its possible with some hard work and dedication. Just make sure you pay attention to details. Some little things that can be forgotten but make a big difference all together...
Liquid traction aid, makes big difference if your spinning
Ice the intake
If you dont want to take off the front sway bar (which IMO you should) then atleast loosen it to get the front end up a few inches more
An optima or similar type dry cell battery will cut alot of weight
Start getting into your prom tuning, you can probably shave a few .1s here too
Dont run with alot of gas obviously, but too little can lead to fuel slosh and starvation on launch
Dont just go once or twice and be disapointed, go when you can and practice cause if you spend 2 months working on it and goto the track you might be pretty rusty

Anyway goodluck man I think you will do it, post the results and how you got it (mods) when your there.

Gruvin84SS

I know that Ok, Mike Davis has his stuff posted on his webpage and it says that he hads 300HP at the rear wheels. He ran 11.94. I know his stuff is not stock but i don't see why this guy can't run a 12 sec time. Below taken from http://www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=201

Timeslip
Track: Cecil County Drag Way
Date: 12-15-01

R/T :
0.616
60' : 1.583
330' : 4.792
1/8 : 7.533
MPH : 89.36
1000' : 9.919
1/4 : 11.941
MPH : 111.51

After 1LE swap, !swaybar, !airfilters, !spare&jack, stock 15" front rims/tires, -2 deg pinion angle dialed in, AGX's turned full soft, knock sensor bypassed, 50deg sunny/blustery day with 10-15mph tail wind..

Dyno Data
(Corrected RW)

HP: 300.0 @ 5600 RPM
TQ: 380.0 @ 3800 RPM

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I definetly think you can do it and I hope you do. Many go right into heavy modding without trying to do what you want and never find out. Most have given good advice so far so I'm not gonna repeat. Post your results.

gmgod

How about removing all the crash safety crap from under your front bumper cover and fabing up some brackets to support it. Also, put 4.10's and a 3-4 upshift sleeve in- run slicks.

Jasper89ROC

Dylan, u shouldnt have too much of a problem, u ran 13.7 with a 1.9 60' on comp ta's if i remember correctly, u should be able to pull a 1.7 60' with a nitto or somethin sticky, that should put u at 13.3-13.4, headers should be worth about .2, puttin u at 13.1-13.2, with a little weight reduction and good weather i dont see it being to big of a deal. And if u can pull a better 60' and the car responds better to the headers that should get u there even easier.
Just read u want to do 1.6's and custom tuning, i think it is very possible.
-Mark

formul8!!

I ran the car in Bowling Green at the F-Body Gathering this weekend.

60'--- 1.971
330--- 5.677
1/8--- 8.804
MPH-- 78.23
1000--- 11.54
1/4---- 13.841
MPH--- 100.05

The conditions were a little hot and humid. I know with a completely stone cold motor and about 20 degrees cooler, it should pull a 13.50@101.00.

My best E/T is 13.71, but I" had the best MPH at BG.

I still need to install my SLPheaders, Accell 300+ ignition and do lots of tuning. There is still another 200lbs yet to be taken out also.

brian89transam

Keep tryin. I don't wanna have to be the first one to try and do this!

It seems like maybe on a good day you can do it. How's your traction? 60fts not bad.

I don't know if you've tried these already, but search for tips in the drag racing forum. (Ice intake, remove front sway bar, etc.)

Keep tuning! I'm rootin for ya!

Tater13150

I'm runnin a 13.6 with stock intake(unported), cam, heads, and bottom end.., and i have headers, custom prom, pulleys, flowmaster force 2 single 3in exhaust. I think that with a 2500 or 3000 stall converter i can get 13.2 then slicks maybe 12's..but i could be wrong.

pyro

bro I am rooting for you
blast these guys out the water and show us how to do things
dont belive them when they say physics says no
or whatever else you hear
If I can help then you can have my help
if not you still got some support
just somtin to consider what about loseing the 700r4
in place of a stronger unit I may get flamed but I have had nothing but bad experence with this tranny

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Hey man. Remember me from BG,KY??? I had the green '91 with the header dumps and the hotcam? I watched ya run. Not bad for as hot as it was. Weather definately sucked. Well, just wanted to say hi. Whats your friends name with the yello LS1 IROC????

later, hope to see ya again next year down there, I had a blast. Wish I would've ran my car though

formul8!!

Hey!! I think you name was Justin from MO?? That is one nice GTA you have there!!

The guy with the LS1 IROC is Brad Bridson from Keil,WI. That car is pretty wicked. There are pics of it on this site somewhere.

The weather did suck that day. After the sun came out, the track was HOOKIN'!!!

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Well I plan on reaching the low 12's in a different way. I will beef up my transmission and rear end gears. Then slap a 350 built entirely from performance parts in and go. I wish to make 400HP at the crank. Now I am not sure what my actual quarter miles times will be with that. But that's what I am going to do. But first I am going to restore the car's interior. My paint and body are almost perfect so there's not much I need to do there.

palric

iTrader: (1)

How far is too far ? I have read that you can siamese the intake manifold up to 5.5 inches. Is this too far ?

thx,
RP.

Jasper89ROC

I cant wait till he pulls a 12 second pass and everyone saying "no" is gonna stick their foot in their mouth.

So far a 13.5 w/ a 1.9 60' on street tires, NO headers, NO weight reduction. Get nittos and pull like a 1.7 thats a 13.1-13.2 right there, plus the addition of headers and weight reduction. It is very very possible. :lala:
-Mark

formul8!!

Mark,

I think I may need an E/T street.

The headers are going in this weekend, but the car won't be on the road until April 1st. Got a lot of bills to pay off this winter. (Half is because of this damn car!)

Jasper89ROC

ET Streets work too, 15" ET's and the skinnies, would look badass too

ps, you know you want my wheels

ROC-Z

Bringing back an old post....

formul8!!-

Curious to see what progress has been made!? Headers and weight reduction go smoothly?

TRAXION

This is entirely possible. I ran 13.6's @ 102mph with stock heads, stock cam, stock motor, stock converter, full weight and street tires. A converter and sticky tires would drop the ET by 5 tenths. That puts it at 13.1's. Add some front skinnies and a little bit of weight reduction and 12.9's is entirely possible.

Tim

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Exactly Tim. I agree.... everyone else seems to think different! BTW- what was done to your car at that point???

ontogenesis

as far as weight goes, it's not too hard to take off alot of it...

you took your a/c off, but do you still have an a/c heater box? go get a a/c delete box, did you pull the condenser out from the front of the radiator? drain your p/s pump, remove the windshield washer fluid tank, get a dyna-batt,, take off your plenum extension, aluminum water pump (pref electric), lightweight wheels, drain 1 or 1.5qt's of oil off, get a fiberglass pin on hood (bolt on has more reinforment, more weight), pin on requires no hinges...take'em off, requires no latch assembly...take it and the bracket that holds it off, if you have power seats convert to manual, take out the jack and spare, run on an almost empty tank, grow a brain and remove the front sway bar, if you have fog lights lose them, headers weigh less, lose the cargo cover if you have one, pull out the back seats (4 bolts), pull out the passenger seat (4 bolts), pull out the passenger side seatbelts (2 bolts and heavier than you'd think), aftermarket steering wheels tend to be lighter, lose your horn, run antifreeze a little low, plug heater lines and remove hoses to the heater core, remove front and rear bumpers (replace'em later), pull your fan(s) off (only running once, let it cool down after that, fans weight a decent amount and it's right upfront), pop off the windsheild wipers, take the sound deadening material off the back of your carpeting and off the back of your panels, if you have deluxe panels get the cheapo ones, if you have speakers get rid of them, if you're gonna trailer it to the track, and i think you should, drop the exhaust off from the header back, it's not hard to get off unless it's all welded and goes over the rear axle, take the inner door panels & arm rests off, if you have power windows and doors get manual versions, if you have leather seats get cloth, wear khakis and go commando, cut your hair, take a crap, ****, take off your center caps and valve stem caps, lose your windsheild visors, clean your car, clean our your car, vaccum your car, get a steel brush and brush the rust off the bottom of your car, take off the antenna, pull the radio out, remove the center console, etc

i know not all of this is gonna apply to your car, i know you don't wanna remove the sway bar or anything from the interior, and i know alot of this isn't practical, but it's gonna take ALOT of weight off your car, and your gonna need to lose all you can...

formul8!!

So far for weight reduction, I have removed the whole A/C system and count the headers as less weight over the cast iron manifolds. I do not want to chop up the car for e/t's sake. I want the car to be full interior and still reasonable to drive everyday. This means, once I have removed all the weight I can, then I will need to find more power in the motor and ECM.

My plans are to remove/change ONLY: (Weight savings in parenthesis)

-Change to fiberglass formula replica hood (40lbs)
-Fiberglass rear spoiler (22lbs)
-Tubular front A-arms (?)
-remove steel bumper supports and have aluminum ones made (30lbs)
-remove strut tower brace at the track (8lbs)
-Driver fat reduction-DIET TIME! (20lbs)
-Aluminum water pump (5lbs)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL: Approximately 130lbs

That should be good for a 1/10 right there.


The car has not run since October when the alternator quit on the way home after dynoing it. I decided with winter coming to put the car away and install the headers and some other stuff.

I plan on adding in the next few months:

-1.6 roller rockers
-Accel 300+ ignition
-Custom PROM
-custom made dual cat Y-pipe (to finish SLP 1 3/4 header install)
-Spohn torque arm
-aluminum driveshaft

Alot more tuning and driving practice will hit a 12.99 or better. All this on the still untouched heads, cam and bottom end.

I am hoping the motor stays together until it hits this goal!! It has 87,000 miles on it and has at least 300-400 drag passes on it. It has been well taken care of with regular Mobil 1 syth oil changes.

If it does hit this, I am writing an article for GMHTP to pick up where "Magnum TPI" left off before the stock motor blew up.

89Formula350WS6

I think you can do it, but you might not be the first to make it.
I'm still a LONG way away.
My 13.89 was with a miserable 2.11 sixty foot and my MPH was 99.90 spinning one wheel in my worn-posi'd Nine Bolt 3.27. Race weight was 3450 lbs with me in it.
I still haven't installed the 1.6:1 rockers because I want to rerun the car with a 3.42:1 ten bolt posi I have first. I think I can run about:
13.65 with the rear swap. (3.27 slipping posi to good 3:42)
13.50's - 1.6 RR's, LT1 starter & aluminum shaft for less weight), MAT sensor relocation, & custom CAI
13.40's with AFPR (tuned at the track) and a short belt to bypass PS pump.

I still have never removed any part of the TPI assembly or even a valve cover.

12.99 with stock bottom end, heads, and cam? I think it won't be long before there are a few cars on this board that can do it.

Ions91Z28

I believe it's possible as well. Just looking to see what can be done to reach it. And does it come to the point where you look and say... "If I didn't spend so much here, I could have been running mid 12's" or something of that nature.

ontogenesis

that driveshaft is gonna get torn to peices pretty quick, aluminum d/s's do not hold up to high speeds and high loads...

titeride85

I wasnt patient enough to read all the posts so I may have missed something, so I'm sorry for any doubled up ideas. Here are a few ideas:

Lighten up (mentioned before)
Underdrive pulleys
Use thinner head gaskets (raise CR a bit)
Fuel cell instead of full tank (also, run with little fuel, gas adds weight)
Battery relocation (I think you mentioned it already)
Lightweight battery
LCA relocation setup
SFC's
Royal Purple synthetic oil
Tune PROM and timing
Headlight covers (reduce drag)
Remove GFX and even bumper cover (bumper and GFX act as a big parachute and the front GFX add drag)
Ice the intake before the run
Gut the cat or replace with a performance cat (or even splice in an instant open exhaust piece)
Test different octane gasses to find which will get best perfomance without detonation (do before you go to track so you know which to use)
Run a cold air intake
Run slicks (even wrinkle wall if it is an option)
Lose the power steering
Remove power windows (if applicable)
Lose the A/C
Electric water pump
Electric fans
Aluminum wheels (if possible)
Fiberglass hood (if possible)


Ther is probaly more but it depends on how much you want to spend on parts or how much you want to eliminate from the car instead of going into the motor.

formul8!!

Cool! Some friendly competition!!! That will make each one of us try even harder. Watch, after the both of us hit it, then look how many will hit it too. Like the guy who ran the first 4 minute mile.

I hope you hit 12's also!! Good luck and keep us posted.

89Formula350WS6

I think that's the first time I've seen one of your posts Matt. I hope to get to drive over & pick up a spare plenum to port and an AFPR if you've got any left.
The Z looks nice.

BORLAZ06

12.99....definately possible. With slicks I think I might even hit a 13.9 with the bone stock motor. No free mods, with A/C and a heavy *** drivetrain. I couldnt imagine the motor with some mods. I'll be seeing next month on what I can do and I'll post up some slips. Til then....

90Formula-X-F

I am running 3.5 inches down and no problems. High flow runners, ported plenum, 52mm throttle body and 50 lbs of fuel pressure on #19 injectors.


* 355ci, WS6, 5speed
* Ported & Polished Cylinder Heads (Cast # 993)
* 2.02 & 1.6 Manley Pro-Flo Valves
* Harland Sharp 1.6 Ratio Roller Rockers
* Crane Valve Springs and Retainers
* G.M.P.P. Ram Jet Roller Cam
* Crane Roller Lifters
* Speed Pro/TRW 1.25 Dome Forged Pistons
* Balanced Lower End
* Lightweight Nodular 16lb Flywheel
* Induction - Ported and Gasket Matched
Plentum
Manifold
Edelbrock Runners
52mm Holley Throttle Body
Custom Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
#19 injectors at 50lbs pressure
* Exhaust All New
Edlebrock Chrome T.E.S. Headers
High-Flow 3" Carsound Cat
Dynamax 3" Exhaust Tubing and Tail Pipes
Flowmaster American Thunder Muffler

TRAXION

Geez - where do I start? Tons of stuff....

Random Tech Ram-air
52mm TB
Ported Plenum
AS&M LTRs
TPIS Big Mouth Base
1.6 rockers
SLP 1-5/8" headers
Flowmaster catback
3.73's
some suspension tweaks, shift kit, 1LE driveshaft and other piddly crap like AFPR, etc.

... wow, my car has changed A LOT since then.

Tim

ThirdGenZ28 92

Im only 5 tenths away from 12s and yet to port anything, add my aftermarket intake, 52mm tb, ram air, redo my exhaust, remove weight and shortly Ill be coming into a little $ to throw at the Z so I may be in the stock bottom end 12s race as well

Jasper89ROC

Hey Dylan, brush your teeth and rub one off right before the race, might as well take off the doors while your at it

BTW ontogenesis if an aluminum ds cant handle a 12 second pass and 5500 rpm's then there is something seriuosly wrong with it, you do realize 6-speed ls1's go 10's with a stock alum ds

305sbc

iTrader: (3)

Yeah that's right, the stock aluminum driveshafts are fine way down into the 10's unless you run some crazy rear end gears like 4.56:1 or more.... in which case it would spin much faster = higher stress.

I like the weight reduction ideas. There's some more on this site.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...217306&page=18

speed88

I'm hoping to see low 13's high 12's with a similiar setup. However, I plan on putting in 1.6 rr's and porting my heads. Also going to cut my valves, siamese my intake manifold and port my plenum and runners. Basically though the internal motor will still be stock except for the 1.6's. We'll see!!??

Stock L98

I've been 12.90 at 104 on a stock heads cam and intake L98 in my 92 camaro at Houston Raceway Park. I've got hooker long tubes, 3.73 gears, pulleys, aluminum driveshaft, and sticky tires (ET Streets)...Nothing else has been touched on the thing..Yes 12.99 is possible.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

:hail: :hail:

Not sure which to do

I think 12's are possible with stock heads/cam/intake, but I thought it would take a few more mods than what you have. Any timeslips you can post or video?? This is amazing to me if its legit...... Later

ThirdGenZ28 92

12.90s at 104 does seem alittle optimistic with just headers, DS, pullies, gears and tire. I would think youd need some sort of converter, suspension pieces and serious weight reduction and even then without some other parts it would be a stretch. Not calling BS but timeslips or video always helps, if I ever accomplish that feat it will be well documented thru video and slips thats for sure...

formul8!!

On a 150hp shot of Nitrous, yes. A heavy '92 Z28 with just the mods listed and no further proof?

I am not saying you did not run those times, just need some more information about the car and its setup.


I WILL have timeslips,witnesses and if possible, video.