KC10Chief

I have an 88 GTA with the 350 TPI motor. It's bone stock except the K&N filter. What is a good way to get this motor up to 350 horses? I was thinking some SLP headers, cat back system, and a cold air induction to start. What other bolt on's should I look at? Thanks for any info! Matt

DannyT

Are you looking for 350HP at the wheels or at the crank?
Headers are definitely a good start. The stock intake manifold is very restrictive also. You could just go with a decent set of heads/cam but that costs more $$

bigals87z28

oh, just the usual.

350rwhp is gunna be fun!! i say HSR, AFR 190's, LT4 hot cam or ZZ-409 cam something with a nice lobe and duration, large 1 3/4 primaries, good cat back, and bolt ons should do the trick. Playing with new injectors, timming, PROM's, etc will get you there. Also, a good rebuild is in order. 350hp tends to find weak spots, espesaily if your talking about 350 wheel power. 350 wheel power might need a decent rebuild with pisonts and rods. new valve train would help. Pro Mags 1.6 would help out that ZZ409 or LT4 Hot Cam greatly. Everything is gunna need to be made stronger. 350 rwhp = over 400 flywheel considering 15% loss in drivetrain. Forged pistons, and rods are deff. gunna be needed, along with crank and the whole shibang. Parts are gunna be $$$. I would sugest to you to think about a crate motor. the 385 fastburn can be upgraded to put out 430 i belive when combined with the LT4 Hot cam. good luck!
Alex

ULTM8Z

Iron Vortec heads, Scoggins Dickey Vortec TPI manifold, ZZ4 camshaft, Hi-Flo runners, ported plenum, a 58 mm throttle body, 24 #/hr injectors, and full length headers. That should get you to 350 hp, no problem. The TPI manifold will become the bottleneck at that point.

Black363IROCZ

port and polish, nice cam, headers, exhaust, pulleys, free mods, chip, and HSR for some nice top end

TRAXION

You're not going to get 350 at the REAR WHEELS with that combo. No way. You'll get 300 rwhp if you are lucky ... and that's if you are lucky.

Tim

bigals87z28

gunna need a LOT more cam then the ZZ4. The fast burn crate motor is probably your best bet. They have an option to swap out the ZZ4 cam and put in the LT4 hot cam kit and pushes it up to 430 (dunno how... thats one hellof'a cam) At least thats what i think i read...

bnoon

I just happen to have a new SDPC catalog at my desk... let's see here... fast burn 385 with hot cam (and 1.6 rockers) pushes 430 HP. That's with a carb though... put a TPI on that engine and you're killing the combo (add a few more TQ, subtract quite a few HP), not to mention you need to buy a Vortec base too. You'd probably be better off with a ZZ4 short block, aftermarket aluminum heads (or factory ones with large valves and full P&P), and a Holley SR, LT1, etc. if you're staying fuel injected. If not, then enjoy that carbed 430 HP!!! I like fuel injection, but 430 HP is tough to kick to the curb, LOL!

bigals87z28

wow, thanks man! i thought so, but an almost 50 hp gain out of an already pretty optimized engine sounded to crazy to me... Im not sure, but i thought fast burns could take both standard and vortec bolt patterns? Well, then i guess he could get the ram jet intake, as that is made for vortec heads!! its 350 for the intake, which is cheap!. Not sure on what that comes with, you can check the sdpc book and see. that or go with a converted carb manifold and drill for FI... that could work!! oh well, its possible! good luck.

bnoon

I'm not 100% on the fast burn heads being the Vortec pattern, but I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. If anyone ows different, please share. I like the AFR Twisted Wedge heads better anyway since I've had great results with them in the past. I just wish I had the money I used to before the telecom job market took the huge dump...

bigals87z28

problem is with fast burns, you cant touch them or you fock up the design of the head... with afr's you can tinker... but with 430hp... how much more do you need!! i think a jump from 200hp to 430 would scare me chitless... but then i would supercharge it and be done!!! muahahha!

bnoon

I had 510 HP to the wheels on a 420" stroker in my '70 vette running the race P&P (prior to them offering the CNC ones now) 220cc runner AFR heads. I didn't think it could scare me, until the day I yanked 4th gear pretty hard racing on street tires. Sideways at 90, seeing fence, guardrail, other car, fence, guardrail, then straightening it out and still doing over 80... puts your heart into overdrive, let me tell you!

bigals87z28

ooooooo very nice!!! i do that with the 305.. only the ground is usualy very wet and then its easy!!! sounded like you had a nice vette.... anyway.. where is KC... he hasnt answerd our posts?

Black363IROCZ

I've got fast burn heads, they are drilled for vortec and 87-95 style intakes, I didnt know they had them for 87-95 when I first got them so I bought a vortec miniram manifold

ULTM8Z

I must have missed that we were talking about rear wheel horsepower. I thought it was at the flywheel...

Besides, I'm highly doubtful that you could actually get 350 rwhp with a TPI anyway. Tack on the 20% (or so) for drivetrain losses and that's over 400 hp. On a TPI? No way.

bigals87z28

never say never... its people that say never that get smoked by a modded 305... muahahhaha!

KC10Chief

Sorry for not replying. I've been moving this past week so I'm having to use the computer at work. Anyways, where can I get one of those fast burn motors? How much are they? Matt

bnoon

SDPC - Scoggin-Dickey Parts Center
1-800-456-0211

385 Fastburn with ZZ4 cam and 1.6 rockers
PN: SDZZ430B - $4,899

What I would do is get the ZZ4 short block (same short block as above), and add your own choice of aftermarket cam, heads, etc. Problem is, you have to be careful and know what you're ordering to get more HP/TQ for less money.

ZZ4 short block, 4 bolt main
PN: 12561723 - $1,998.90

There are other sources (Summit, Jegs, etc) for the readily available GM Performance parts crate engines, but I just happen to have the SDPC handy here at work.

TRAXION

NEVER!

... bring it

Tim

ULTM8Z

Hmmm... Once I get my misfire problem fixed, I may have to go "pick a fight" with an LS1 and see what everyone's talking about- see how my setup rates against GM's finest. So far, no LS1 powered cars have been bothering me. Though, I have taken a few LT1 Vettes and Camaros before.

iroczman380

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TRAXION
[B]You're not going to get 350 at the REAR WHEELS with that combo. No way. You'll get 300 rwhp if you are lucky ... and that's if you are lucky.



Hey traxion and pro tour--

Iam currently building my 383 stroker with vortec heads and a good street cam, with the vortec tpi base and ported runners, plenum and so on. Anyways--- check this out

In Schoggin dickeys magazine they take a l98 and put vortec heads with vortec tpi base on. on with 1t4 hot cam and 1.6 rockers and free flowing exaust. Thats all they did and got these numbers from the dyno with the tpi!!!!

353.8 horsepower @ 4800 rpm's
427 ft lbs @ 3800 rpms

If that doesnt make you think about the tpi setup i dont know what does.

I happen to disagree with you that tpi cannot make 350 rear wheel horse.

If they made this much horse on a 350, then i think i can definitley expect more from a 383.

Not to mention the torque, even if the motor is only puttin out 300 rwheel horse

450+ ft lbs of torque is good for low 12's and high 11's with slicks and maybe a small squirt.

You can really fly with tpi if you know what parts to match it too. When i complete my project here in the next month ill post dyno numbers and track times, and Id bet that it will be very close to 350 rear wheel with over 420 rear wheel torque.

Well just thought id add this, by the way trax ur car is bad ***.

bigals87z28

next year at the TGN 2 and when you not shoulder deep into marks car!!! hehehe... and you have to take off the blower and put the tpi back on... im actualy looking at your car right now as i just got my pictures back from TGN. very VERY bad a$$

TRAXION

I sold all my blower stuff. It's all gone (including the Mez electric water pump and the S10 manual box). I am going back to a stock type setup ... but with the MiniRam of course Current mod list that is being accomplished right now is ...

1) Replace Mez electric pump with Edelbrock HiFlow Aluminum Mechanical Pump
2) Reinstall stock bracketry along with stock fast ratio power steering box
3) March Power & Amp 3-piece billet aluminum underdrive pullies
4) Comp Cams billet aluminum 3-Piece timing cover
5) Joe Overton custom grind cam
6) Comp Cams 987 springs
7) Viton valve seals
8) Dynomax UltraFlo Welded 'straight through' muffler (so long blowmaster)

Pics of progress are at...
http://www.celligent.com/tim/iroc/LEFIPCam/disassembly/
All my pics are HUGE so broadband is the only way. Any pics of a human being are not me. That's my coworker who I am helping to learn about cars.

Tim

bigals87z28

may I ask why you took off all that stuff?

TRAXION

Yes ... yes you may - lol. Because the combination of a 1 year old and moving into a bigger more expensive house sort of eliminates the idea of me running a $2400 Vortech YS trim head unit ... along with the subsequent motor rebuild with forged parts costing in excess of $5000. Sticking NA will allow me to have my true street car back without having to worry about the $$$$ that goes along with a forced induction setup. I'm still looking for close to 400 at the wheels so that's not too shabby

Tim

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Traxion - I'm making more than 350 hp with my vortec headed TPI motor. See sig.

Yes, it is possible to make over 400 at the crank naturally aspirated with a TPI intake. It just takes alot of porting, port matching, tuning, matched cam, etc... to get there.

Cheers!

iroczman380

Hey that is very very tight, you are doing almost exactly what iam planning on only iam doing it with a 383 ci.

Do you have the part number on the vortecs heads you used?
Also Did you siamese everyting??
What are the specs on that cam, and could you possibly recommend one for a 383?

Welll i know thats alot of q's but Iam building a vortec headed 383 with the sdpc vortec tpi base and siamesed port runners and plenum etc. Here all just put the mods here? Tell me what you guys think!!

383 ci
Scat 9000 crank
SPeed Pro Forged pistons
Comp Cams 454/454 lift and 218/224 @.50 duration with 110 lobe seperation descent street cam--
1.6 rocker arms
Vortec Heads- port and polish
SDPC Vortec TpI Base
Siamesed Port Runners
Ported Plenum-Gasket matched
Holley 52mm Throttle Body
Edelbrock Headers TES
American Thunder Catback
2500 Stall Converter
Beefed up 700r4
3.42 richmond gears
Subframe Connectors
Strut Tower Brace

I think thats it, I hope this will make some serious torque and at least 330rear wheel horse. Im hopin also for low 12's but well see.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

I would go with a different cam, upgrade the springs to match your new cam, have a good shop work over the heads, portmatch everything that you can intake-wise (dont siamese), just port match to big-mouth gaskets, and then ALOT of PROM tuning.

My cam specs with 1.5 rockers are:
.503/.510
224/230 @ .050
112 LSA
108 ICA

Comp cams part number 8-503-8
grind number XR276HR-12

My cam should work nicely in a 383.


Hope that helps!

Black363IROCZ

330 RWHP should be plenty for low 12s, hookin with that 383 torque is what's gonna be hard. I suggest a higher rpm cam (not too much higher) and some 3.73 gears, so you can keep it streetable but also pull to 6500 every time. TPI is gonna be hard to keep then

TRAXION

When you get a chance please post your 350+ rwhp dyno chart.

Tim

bigals87z28

sooooo......... basicly you wife b*tched you out for spending tons on the car right? muahahha! just kidding. I understand (sort of) about spending money(college). I wanted to get a lot done this summer, but it just wasnt in the cards. Now if i could just win the lottery, i could get some stuff done before school...

TRAXION

Naaaaaa. I never get b*tched out. My wife is pretty darn cool. It's my decision. I'd rather have a nice house and get things for my son. As I get older the priorities change. As I said before - close to 400 at the rear wheels isn't too shabby Plus, I am still doing something unique since most people don't do this to a stock shortblock.

Tim

ULTM8Z

Why don't you simply try to become the most worthless moron that ever existed so you can go to Hollywood and become famous and make millions of dollars. Seems to work for everyone that's there right now.

bigals87z28

That would be cool and i hope its ready for next years TGN. And Pro Tour... wtf man? what is your deal?

ULTM8Z

Heheehe....sorry.... just a sarcastic reaction to the recent story about Mike Tyson going bankrupy after squandering 400 million dollars.

Not directed at, or meant to offend, anyone here.

likeistoleit

Tim, I feel you man, Ive got a 9 month old and the "play money is steadily getting diverted", is allright though because in a couple of years I have a reason to build a bada## go-cart, bike, 4 wheeler, and then when she is 16 Ive got a driver for my, I mean her hot rod.

Tmony69

Are any of the BIG power combos you guys are suggesting emissions legal and or SES friendly?

89TA383M5

I'm putting together a 383 c.i. motor with Dart heads a Crane Cams CRN-104224 cam from Summit, 1.6 roller rockers, and all Tpis intake parts. Big mouth base, large tube runners, and 52mm throttle body, and air foil. I got all the goodies like Slp headers without cats or airpump, and MSD, 30 lb. injectors, fuel pressure regulator, blah blah blah. Can anyone give me an idea what it probable will put out? It is going to be about 3 weeks till I finish the motor and a paint job I'm doing. I need to know If you guys think I'm going to need to upgrade to a better fuel pump. Thanks guys.

Tmony69

Probably. The stocker may be able to hang, but you've gone through all this trouble why stop short. Changing the pump is a pain in the ***, but imagine how bent you would be to put it all together and not have it run as good as it could. Plus tearing so much BACK apart.

Camaro_nut

Sorry, I edited my input here. I didn't think it was good info,
so I trashed it.

I EAT T/A

You guys have some nice projects going here, I can't wait till I can make one.

Jed

I'd also like to see that 350+ rwhp dyno chart.

IEatRice4dinner

not get 350hp out of a TPI thats bs IMO.

comon ppl. a stock l98 tpi makes 230 hp add a ati procharger (50-75% more power)

so we are lookin at around 300 at least, add a HSR a zz4 cam and AFR 190's plus freemods headers pullys

that will be more than enough....(if it doesent explode)

DannyT

We're talking rear wheel HP, not flywheel. He also doesn't have the SC on it yet either (at least according to his sig). We're still waiting for that dyno graph........

bigals87z28

STOP WITH THE MO#$@% F#$#$ING PULLEY STUFF!!! there just as good as buying a chip or an air foil or doing the TB mod... only cost more and can kill an alternator if not set up properly.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

I will glady post my dyno chart as soon as I can dyno the car. I haven't dyno'd the car yet for a couple of reasons.

First of all, money's been really tight for the last several months (sorry, I have responsibilities and I'm not rich like you guys)! Second, I'm still tuning the PROM. (It's running really rich at idle and in PE, the ECM is pulling 9 * timing out for no apparent reason (no detonation at all). I'd rather spend the next little bit of spare money on some sub-frame connectors also. So once money permits and I'm comfortable with the tune, then I'll dyno it. The reason I say my car is making 350 + to the wheels, is from the cars that I raced and beat that were making over 350 + to the wheels.

But trust me, even if I only make 100 hp at the wheels, good or bad, I'll post the results when I have them. But, I think we (including all the doubters) will all be pleasantly surprised with the outcome, cause the car runs pretty damn strong!

DannyT

Have you ever taken it to the track? If so what does it run?
I'm sure it runs really strong but you can't assume that it's putting out the same RWHP because of the cars that you have beaten. Our motors are notorious for their TQ outputs and that is why we are able to keep up with cars with higher HP numbers assuming we can get traction.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Haven't taken it to the track, but I have run an 11.90 on a gtech spinning through 1st gear.

camarojoe

Mike, what mph did you run on the g-tech? You do have gobs of tq, that sometimes figures into street races from a stop. I say you have 330-350rwhp and 450rwtq (gobs of tq IOW) with that setup. I think a lot of tq is why some setups run like they do in the 1/4 but at the same time those same cars don't have a whole lot of rwhp. Of course that goes w/ Lingenfelter and several others philosophies about street beasts.

DannyT

Is this a joke? There is no way that setup is even close to 11s. You'd probably see mid-high 12s at best and that's if you can hook up.
I would bet you are putting out no more than 300-310 RWHP and 375-385 RWTQ. There are too many similar setups around for us to believe you are putting out 350RWHP and 450 RWTQ.
Do everyone (including yourself) a favor and at least take it to the track. I realize that dyno time isn't cheap but what part of racing is?