D F

If the cost was the same as the current stealthram intake, would you buy one for vortec heads?

D Stroy H8

It won't fit - physically incompatible.

Even if it did the HSR is designed for topend and the Vortecs are for lowend. It's a mismatch that cannot be bridged without some major porting to the Vortec heads I would think.

D F

What I mean is if Holley made one specifically for vortec heads, would you buy one?

I've seen them dynoed with success with stock iron heads so I would think the vortecs would work even better.

biggtime

If I was going to use a stealth ram I would not be using vortec heads.

D Stroy H8

I think you are using the term "success" loosely.

Sure throw a stealthram on a stock L98 and tune it just right and you can see high 13s with good exhaust. However, swap out those L98 heads for some Toplines or AFRs and you'll see low 13s. Change the cam and you'll see mid 12's. Thats about how much torque focused heads and cam will hold back the HSR

OMINOUS_87

Lots of people would.

Ray87Z

I sure as hell would. The Vortec's design promotes velocity and torque sure, but it doesn't suffer on the flow numbers either, it flows with/outflows alot of affordable aftermarket heads (obviously quite a few can outflow it too)... But the point is the Vortec heads scream with something like the Ramjet intake (350hp on a weak, weak cam in the Ramjet crate engine. Similar intake design...), and would scream with the HSR too...

Holley doesn't make a single intake of anykind for the Vortecs that I'm aware of, seems like they're completely skipping a fairly big market. With GM's Ramjet intake a little on the expensive side, and not really geared as a simple TPI replacement or advertised much for that matter, a HSR that fit Vortecs would have a big fat niche all of it's own. The SDPC Vortec TPI intake is the only current option, and it's a little on the expensive side for just a base, and seems slightly on the weak power potential end of things (from numbers I've seen, little disappointed)...

I would switch back over to a fuel injected setup pronto if Holley sold a Vortec Stealthram for the same price the standard ones are going for. I can pick up a complete TPI setup for under $500 with computer, wiring, sensors, TB, etc and everything else I'd need to run the Stealthram (plus a new high-pressure pump). So for under $1000 for us carbed Vortec head guys we could step up to EFI. I'd be all over that... I've been hoping they'd offer one for some time... Unfortunately it seems they have completely ignored them, Edelbrock has at least made carb intakes for them for forever, why doesn't Holley/Weiand at least offer a carb intake after all this time??? The HSR seems like a perfect EFI intake to adapt for them...

With a good cam, solid exhaust setup and decent tune the HSR and Vortecs would wayy outperform the SDPC base/long tube runner setup I'd bet...

88TPI406GTA

Is DF here like Doug Flynn at Holley?...then I say to make one. The Vortec heads are obviously popular and the only easy option to use them with a TPI type setup is the SDPC base...

How close is Holley to producing this?

D Stroy H8

No doubt. I have to agree with you for the most part. Just seems to me that there are many other heads out there are are suited for top end better than vortecs. I know vortecs flow adequately up top, but they are focused on low end - agree with that?

So...
I think a well tuned HSR/Vortec/Cam setup would be very fast too... but I think a well tuned HSR/Dart/Cam setup would have significantly more potential concerning untouched heads.

OMINOUS_87

Affordable heads combined with an affordable EFI intake would move alot of people off the fence who are thinking of modding their motors.

This whole idea that Vortec heads are low RPM only is rediculous. With a 350 and decent cam they can easily peak power in the upper 5000rpm range. Not to mention that the assertion the HSR should be built around upper Rs also holds no water. There are pleanty of folk out there who would be happy to have 425-450hp motors that they dont have to ring out over 6000rpm and could still run a stock crank etc...

Its a dry flow manifold, the rules apply differently to the powerband, it will not have carbs atop it here.

Miniram=1200$
Superram, assorted bases=1200$
Hopped up LTR, assorted bases=800-900$ with poor powerbands

HSR=cheapest option out there, best bang for buck, etc...
This rings real loud with alot of hotrodders, combine it with budget power heads AKA Vortec and it starts to sound like an awfull smooth idea.

Not to mention there are also Fastburns and E-Tec 200s

Black 91 Z28

I would. I want to swap over to Vortecs because they are a good head for the price, but the only intake I can run and stay with my current FI system is the SDPC one. And at $400 I just cant justify it to myself to buy it as its only a base.

Not that the combo is bad, and I know it makes good power. Just my 2 cents.

CaptPicardsZ28

I agree with OMINOUS_87... A lot more people would also buy it if the current HSR intake had an EGR provision. It does not.

gmgod

Are you Doug Flynn, DF? If so please don't tease us. I've been saving for the vortec heads and miniram III for a while now since talking to/emailing people at holley and being told there are no plans to make a HSR for vortecs. If your just gauging interest I can't imagine this not being a profitable product for you. If Holley is making one, I along with many, many others will buy it for years to come I'm sure.

biggtime

I want to add my $.02. I am sure Holley made the stealth ram because it was relatively easy. It was a base manifold design that they had been maufacturing for years. (tunnel ram for 23 degree SBC heads) it would seem to me that they wanted a combo for the C950 and that was the most cost efective way in. The market for fuel injection for the chevy 23 degree head is HUGE. I would think that there is only a small amount of buyers lined up for the vortec setup. I also believe that if I were to use vortec heads I would be looking at making a low RPM engine (under 5000 rpm) in that case the tuned port long runner will out perform the short 6" runner of the HSR. You guys have to remember Holley never even made any TPI parts except throttle bodies. I don't think they will be spending any prototype dollars in a manifold design for that limited of a market that technically ended in 1992. This is just my opinion so don't flame me.

gmgod

3rd gen F-cars would only be a fraction of the market for a vortec stealth ram.

D F

Yes it is me. It is a consideration right now. I am trying to gauge interest and get some feedback which I appreciate. Holley currently sells a single plane MPFI intake for vortec heads, but it requires a 4 bbl style throttle body or an elbow to use a TPI throttle body.

Given the amount of crate engines with vortec heads and the amount of heads sold I think there would be some market. Not huge, but enough to justify it potentially.

OMINOUS_87

Not only would it be an option for current Vortec owners but it would also stimulate market growth for those on the fence, thats what is important.

IROCZZ3

It would be cool if it did have EGR, but I imagine that would drive up the costs. Between that and the costs of having to get it certified with a CARB EO# to truly make it legal, I'm sure Holley will have to jack up the price on it to recover its costs.

But still, a smog legal manifold that'll support big hp to 6500 rpms for under around $500 would be a bargain.

But for now, I think the HSR for Vortecs or Fastburn heads would be a hit.

gmgod

If this does happen please drop us a line here at TGO.

CaptPicardsZ28

[QUOTE]Originally posted by D F
[B]Yes it is me. It is a consideration right now. I am trying to gauge interest and get some feedback which I appreciate. Holley currently sells a single plane MPFI intake for vortec heads, but it requires a 4 bbl style throttle body or an elbow to use a TPI throttle body.

If this is in fact Doug Flynn, why did you change your user name? I have tried emailing you but never received a response.

D F

Just a different user name I have from another PC. Sorry if I didn't get back to you on something. I get quite a few emails. Email me at dougflynn@holley.com

bnoon

Theory is good, but dyno numbers sell the go fast parts. One off cast an HSR with the Vortec intake flanges, set it on top of a 350 ZZ4 cammed short block, then ask us again if we would buy one. Look at the Vortec TPI bases + runners as a starting point for your prices and you'd be *in*.

poncho@home

I'd probably buy one if the pricing remained as is the HSR now.

I am planning a buildup of another vortec headed car for a bracket racing only and are looking at all the various intake options.

For now I might still go carb, simply for budgetery reasons but if I could FI realtively cheap and still rev to 5500-6000 then the HSR Vortec would be very interesting, and most likely I would do it.

I've had fun building my vortec tpi GTA and would like to continue the FI experience on my bracket car...

Count me as 1

wyclefsirocz

i'd buy one and go get the vortec heads. I'm looking at getting a HSr set up no matter what but its gonna have to wait cause vette heads arn't gonna make the power i'm looking for.

Jed

How about offering a low-profile plenum for increased clearance? Or a plenum that is machined to tilt the throttle body down 5 degrees or so, like the stock TPI plenum does.

There are two aftermarket plenums being sold for it, but they are expensive and of questionable quality. I really wish Holley would offer one.

CaptPicardsZ28

Someone already sells a plenum duplicate to fit under a Corvette hood. http://www.fasterdeals.com/garagehome.html. It looks nice. I cant wait to finish hooking my HSR up.

Morley

Its not just the crate engines, there are many, many people that already have Vortec heads on their current engine or are planning to get them. I think your market for such a product would be larger than just the crate engines. Also figure in the low cost of Vortec's and another avialable induction system for them, this would probably sway people towards the Vortec heads that had ruled them out because of there being just 1 EFI manifold to fit them.

kevinz85

I would buy one.

CraZ-28

I would..........if they would trade my standard one out for it.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

I second this!!! I would have bought one a long time ago if it would fit under my t/a's hood with out hacking it up, and I'am sure the corvette crowd would like to see this happen to.

Jed

Oh, I'm well aware of Grumpy's plenum. For a while I was seriously considering it. But there are a few things I don't like about it. For one thing, it costs more than the entire HSR manifold. It used to be $260 but the price went up. Way up.

Aside from that, it is only available with that porous black powdercoating. I don't think the powdercoating is good for gasket sealing, and I also wonder what effect it has on airflow characteristics.

If it wasn't so expensive I might give it a try. But not for $325

The other guy selling an aftermarket plenum has designed it with a detachable lid. The four bolts that attach the plenum to the manifold are located inside the plenum. If one of those bolts were to come loose, it would be sucked into the engine and do some serious damage.

So you see, I really don't care for either of the plenums.

I know if Holley made a low profile plenum for F-body and Corvette owners, it would be a well made piece. I also think there would be a decent market for it. The fit is very close on Camaros. Plenty of Firebird owners are cutting up their hoods to make it fit. A few of us, myself included, have machined the Holley plenum for increased clearance. And if you check out the C4 message boards, it looks like there are a lot of Corvette owners who would like to have a Stealthram, but are holding out because it won't fit under their hoods, and they don't care for the other two plenums.

Please Doug - hook us up.

FlamedROC

I would switch over to stealth ram in a heart beat!! I just finished my SDPC based TPI project but I really want a HSR. I almost bought a HSR to modify for my vortec heads but wasnt really an option at the time.

Personally I agree with the dyno numbers selling the go fast parts. All we need to see is proven results of what works and people are sold. I spose a good idea would be to dyno a stock L98, then a semi built 350 w/ a zz8 cam, then a completely ***** out built 350/355 just so future builders can get an idea of what gains they can expect from the HSR

EGR compatable HSR? I think it would be wise to start off w/o it then eventually come out with one that has the EGR function. That or have both options, I personally have the EGR deleted from mine set-up and it cost me $30 in block off plates just to be able to run the motor. So eliminating the EGR would be a more cost efficent peice. Sorry to all u SMOG lawed guys that require the EGR but its a wise choice to start w/o it.

And I know of about 4 other guys waiting on the vortec HSR to come out. They all are running carbs and really want to go back to EFI. If I have to come over and get this ball rolling I will, But I really see a big market in vortec EFI bases.

Jason

BitchinCamaro

I would... In a second. My SLP runners are such a pain to seal up, not to mention they don't flow that great. I am about to toss the vortecs so I can get something that will accept the stealth ram, or try and get my hands on a RamJet intake. Please put me on a mailing list or something if they do decide to make one, I will be first in line.
-Erik

mess21

i would buy one in a second. I want to go wit the zz430 set up aka zz4 short block hot cam and fastburn vortec heads however i want to keep it fuel injected and basically the only way to do that right now would be to buy the sdpc vortec base and even wit the best flowing tpi runners etc i think it would still be to restrictive to c 430 hp. the HSR on the other hand wit the zz430 setup would be great!!

CaptPicardsZ28

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jed
Oh, I'm well aware of Grumpy's plenum. For a while I was seriously considering it. But there are a few things I don't like about it. For one thing, it costs more than the entire HSR manifold. It used to be $260 but the price went up. Way up.

Aside from that, it is only available with that porous black powdercoating. I don't think the powdercoating is good for gasket sealing, and I also wonder what effect it has on airflow characteristics.

If it wasn't so expensive I might give it a try. But not for $325

The other guy selling an aftermarket plenum has designed it with a detachable lid. The four bolts that attach the plenum to the manifold are located inside the plenum. If one of those bolts were to come loose, it would be sucked into the engine and do some serious damage.

So you see, I really don't care for either of the plenums.

I know if Holley made a low profile plenum for F-body and Corvette owners, it would be a well made piece. I also think there would be a decent market for it. The fit is very close on Camaros. Plenty of Firebird owners are cutting up their hoods to make it fit. A few of us, myself included, have machined the Holley plenum for increased clearance. And if you check out the C4 message boards, it looks like there are a lot of Corvette owners who would like to have a Stealthram, but are holding out because it won't fit under their hoods, and they don't care for the other two plenums.

Please Doug - hook us up.


Very well said indeed!!

FruityOne

I am looking at the HSR very closely. However, my stock heads are not worth it for a HSR, they don't flow enough.

While vortec heads are in my reach, I would also have to get a vortech intake base before I could use them. $400 base, $475 AS&M runners, ported plenum, still won't outflow a HSR. But for the price of all that, I could get a FIRST TPI setup that would outflow any TPI setup thats compatable with GM.

However, I could reasonably put a HSR on my car for $600 or so, and I could use a number of really good aftermarket heads with it. Assuming I had the cash to spend $1,000+ on the AFR heads I want.

z_power

I'm also interested - right now my car has stock 083 heads and stock LTR setup; as far as we consider intake and heads as separated units, HSR and Vortecs are best bang for the $$$ but each in it's own "environment". If they could be mixed together, would be the cheapest way to upgrade L98's...

vwdave

I would probably buy one too. I would probably start out with the Vortecs, and step up to Fastburns.

gixxer9

FOR THE GUYS WHO DO NOT ALREADY HAVE VORTECS: I NOTICED IN MY PACE PERFORMANCE CATALOG THAT THEY ARE SELLING VORTEC HEADS THAT HAVE BEEN MODIFIED AND DRILLED FOR 86 AND EARLIER STYLE INTAKES. THE PRICES SEEM TO BE ABOUT THE SAME AS THE STANDARD VORTECS. JUST SOMETHING FOR YOU ALL TO THINK ABOUT......

MIKE

OMINOUS_87

Thats not a good mix, at all.

Considering the Vortec intake port is as tall as the felpro 1206 Gasket and as wide as the Felpro 1204. The HSR is designed to fit a Felpro 1205, a total mismatch all the way around.

Not a good mix.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

I would be VERY interested in a vortec stealth ram!

I have the motor to make some interesting results with a vortec HSR.

Jed

What about that dyno run Doug posted a while back on one of the other forums? He installed the HSR on a stock 92 Z, and it seemed to be worth the effort, even on a stock motor.

KenV

I can see one of those on my 350 with the ability to pass the exam here in California. The cost of the SDPC lower keeps me from considering Vortecs due to the fact that I would still have TPI choking the engine. As it is I am looking at compromising on the cam and buying a set of intake gaskets every other year just to pass visual (swapping intakes for test day). A well-tuned hot Vortec/HSR combo would not call for compromise.

Peace,

K

gmgod

So, do you think your gonna make one or uh.......

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

I asked this a long time ago and got shot down same as your first replys. yes, I would have when I asked. I had the opt. to get a set of good vortec heads for really cheap back then. if you make one and I run by another set of vortec heads then yes I still would

3.8TransAM

I would definitely consider a HSR for vortec heads, be a nice next step for my Formula :-) work nice with a hot cam and good converter too i bet :-)

use the tpi stuff on my gta then :-)

count me for one if price is same most definitely

Later
Jeremy

3.8TransAM

LOWER THE PLENUM SO IT CLEARS HOODS MORE EASILY ON F BODIES :-) JUST POPPED INTO MY HEAD BUT DEFINITELY A WORTHWHILE INVESTMENT IF ANYTHING NEW IS BEING MADE
THANKS
Jeremy
PS sorry for the caps but wanted to make sure it was noticed :-)

3.8TransAM

Do not let this die , its on my list of definite wants


and to all u carb or injection is too expensive, heres your alternative for like $1k total u can have a like new inj system and for 700-800 and some used /swap stuff u could have it functioning too


Later
Jeremy

FruityOne

I'm definitely up for this. Vortec heads are the bang-for-the-buck head right now. Unless you can find some Dart, or Pro Lightning heads for the same price.

Also, considering the cost of a fully upgraded TPI setup, a HSR makes a very convicing argument to switch intakes.

$200 SLP Runners
$400 Aftermarket base
$0 porting the plenum.

And the SLP's are the cheapest, you could buy the TPIS, or AS&M runners which go for $375 to $475 when new.

If the HSR vortec base is similar in price to the regular HSR base then we would have an intake that will outflow anything currently in that price-range. Can't get a mini-ram, or Super Ram for that price.

gmgod

Come on DF, talk to us; are you making one or not?