y84pauloflondon

From what I've read, I think that they can.....but how do they???? Does the line get plugged? Is there a filter that gets plugged up? Electrical equipment/wiring that dies?

Dont know how they do!.......Go bad!

Gumby

Just like a fish tank filter, the charcoal can only absorb so much toxins and its done for.

Gumby

ID want it farther up the pipe, like near the nose if you run any fresh air venting, but not real close to the TB or carb......

Rolling Thunder

Well since were talking about the EVAP system it seems that there is a lot of question regarding what it does and how it accomplishes it. In explaining this I'm hoping it will answer the original posters questions.

What is does is as pretty much everyone seems to already know is captures the fuel vapors. It does this by allowing them to be vented into the charcoal canister where the charcoal actually traps the fuel vapors inside (kind of like the same principal behind old gas masks not sure if the newer ones are the same). Under certant conditions the ECM triggers the purge solenoid to allow air to be sucked through the charcoal canister so that the engine can use these fuel vapors.

With that understanding of how it works this is how I would answer the original posters questions.

1. can I?

There are many ways to look at this question. Legally no. Could you physically do it anyways yes. One thing I would like to note though is that the ECM dosnt always activate the purge solenoid it is triggered by the ECM only under certain circumstances. Because of this it is possible that the ECM would compensate to account for its operation. Not sure if it actually does as I havnt seen the ECMs program but maybe someone else could chime in on that one. Now as I said befor you still could do this and get away with it as the ECM can correct itself to a degree but something to be aware of as even though doing this mod may only result in a small correction by the ECM this in combination with other things that may be done in the future may add up to something that would be out of the ECMs ability to correct for.

2. Should I?

I would say no as it does not hurt performance it can be hidden from sight and its illegal to remove so wheres the benefit? This is strictly a matter of opinion though.

3. how do I?

Pretty much already been covered. Cap the lines disconnect it vented gas cap etc.

4. General EVAP can it go bad questions?

Yes the charcoal canister can go bad. Its not really common its a pretty simple device not much to really fail it can get contaminated with gas if the tanks overfilled ect and there is a limit as to how much fuel vapors can be absorbed over the course of its life (also like gas mask filters). Also yes if there is excessive pressure in the tank it could be the result of the EVAP system failing but normally there is some pressure there anyways so it depends how much pressure.

Gumby

My experience with that has been bad, costed me 3 burnt ECMs n 1 set of chips.

The CCP had an internal short, so when activated, it fried to ECM U15 chip, only found the problem after over a yr of searching when I acidently touched the CCP and about burnt my hand from the heat.

I can tell you it doesn't come on till the engine is warm, each time I get in a mile or so of driving then the ECM would start to smoke. [ thats a fun smell]

I can tell you that it will also run fine with it not working.

As I will not take a chance n blow another ECM so will not fix the pruge valve. Not ever gonna happen, its function isn't worth the hassle or cost of ECMs.

Rolling Thunder

Yea I dont quite remember the conditions that it activates under. It is dependent on the motor being warmed up and and the TPS, RPM and probably something else I'm forgetting. Also I really dont know why they didnt build any current limiting circuitry into our ECM's. Ive often thought about building an external buffer between my ECM and my relays and solenoids just for that reason to protect the ECM. Seems silly that a bad relay or solenoid would take out the ECM when they could have just designed the ECM to be more fault tolerant. That is the problem though. Any relay, solenoid, or wiring issue could take out your ECM if its shorted or its resistance is to low. Thats also why your supposed to measure the resistances of all your relays and solenoids befor replacing the ECM to prevent a repeat performance.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

The world is going to hell in a hand-basket & it doesn't really matter all that much if you remove this stuff. Legally you shouldn't but how many of us can sit on this board and claim we've never broken the law??? Even speeding, racing? Nobody can't and we should be aiding each other with advice on here, not criticizing others choices on what they want to do with their car. If they get ticketed or have their car impounded then so be it.... But the emissions crap on these cars are really just alot of junk & take up alot of room and weight. Robs the cars of horses & it looks like crap --- Didn't I say that already?

Me personally, well I'll remove stuff and I understand what each part is supposed to do before I do it. I wouldn't remove the MAF even though I can drive without it on (done that before by accident) but I will certainly get rid of the AIR Injection crap & exhaust manifolds and slap some headers on.

S10Wildside

The LS1 fuel tank will fit in the 3rd gen location and has all the EVAP stuff on top. You'll have to make a custom filler neck, so it is a project, but it will give you an option to clean up the engine bay and leave the charcoal canister purge function intact.

F-Body Demon

iTrader: (1)

I relocated mine, then the car blew 2 fuel pumps.

Related? Maybe, maybe not.

All I know is after I removed it I have not had any problems.

And for the record, removing all the equipment related to the evap canister (at least in my car) was worth just shy of 4 pounds. Ask anyone who races and 4 pounds is worth removing. And once I removed the canister I was also able to route my new intake piping.

Oh and one more thing, I read a comment on here about 370whp emissions legal cars. Big deal! Let me have that engine and I will make it run like it should!

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Does anyone truly know how much gas mileage they are losing not having this hooked up?

rbcobra666

ive got 1 more emission test before i can stretch to my 25 year mark. so after my test i will be ridding my car of all this worthless junk and clutter and move forward with the car. also i dont see why gas milage would suffer at all by removing these items, therwe for clean environment not better fuel economey as far as i know anyways

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Just be ready in case you still fail the Visual portion of the Inspection. Visual checks to see if t is there. Emissions Tests make sure it actually works & not tings like a gutted cat, etc.

25yrs means they just don't emissions test, but it still has to be there for the Visual portion.

TA

iTrader: (1)

There are a number of misconceptions about the evap canister/system here.

It exists solely to "collect and store" fuel vapors when the car is NOT running. There is a charcoal cartridge in the canister that the evaporating fuel vapors are collected in when the car is parked. When the car goes into closed loop, the purge solenoid opens for a short time and the vacuum from the throttle body sucks the fumes back out of the charcoal, into the throttle body, and it is burned in the engine, thus almost no evaporating fuel (unburned hydrocarbons) escapes into the atmosphere when the car is parked. Over many years, the charcoal canister can become so dirty or get saturated with oil, and it will become less effective, but most last the life of the vehicle. If you do somehow dump oil or battery acid up into it, You change out the cartridge (any auto parts store, about $5, goes in the bottom of the canister) if yours is not working. With it in place, your Fuel system is sealed, so the "hiss" when you remove your gas cap means it is working correctly.

You will gain no power by removing it.
You will gain/loose no mileage by removing it.
You are in violation of federal emissions laws by removing it, but so far, only the states are enforcing the emissions laws, so where you live makes a huge difference on weather this really matters in your world.
Removing this component will result in your car spewing far more unburned hydrocarbons (harmful emissions) into the atmosphere than anything you could do with the engine while it is running, including removing the cats.
Your garage will smell of gas fumes by removing it, because you will have to vent the fuel tank somewhere if it is removed. I have a water heater and a compressor (source of sparks/ignition) in my garage. Gas fumes in that circumstance might possibly cause an explosion. If you park outside, not an issue at all.

The rear windows in our cars are about 45lbs, and can be effectively replaced with lexan windows that weigh about 20 lbs, so "saving" 4 lbs on the evap canister on a 3400 lb. street car with a stock rear window is just silly.

The original poster asked not only how to remove it, but IF he should, so if you cannot handle people whos' opinions are different than yours, you are the one being a jerk. If you feel like you have to hate on and control everyone who does not agree with YOU on this subject, maybe it is you that should tune out.

We are here to supply information and opinions, but many of the people contributing seem to have no idea what they are talking about, and most of those are for removing it. If we just remove anything that fails or that we don't understand, we learn nothing and NONE of these cars would currently be running. In the end it is his decision, because he has to live with the results. At least he was smart enough to ask.

TA

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Ditto's to what TA posted.

ASE doc

The charcoal canister is part of the EVAP, or evaporative emissions system. The EPA determined that vapors produced while fuel is stored are a significant source of HC polution and required the OEMs to reduce this form of polution. The OE responded with the creation of the EVAP system. The system, as used on the 3rd gen F-body is primitive and does not include any level of self diagnostic capability. The ECM does not monitor the EVAP system on these vehicles and does not alert the driver or tech to system failure by way of DTC. These sytems are subject to failure, the most troublesome being failure of the canister itself wherein the canister either becomes clogged from liquid fuel or water or other foreign matter beign drawn into the activated charcoal strata while the vehicle is running. There is a felt sediment filter installed at the atmosphere side of the canister to prevent dust contamination but it will not stop water or small particles. Should the canister become clogged it is unlikely that replacing the felt filter will be of much value. Clogged canisters cannot be repaired and require replacement.

Vehicles conforming to OBDII have much more sophisticated EVAP systems. With the advent of "Enhanced" OBDII in 1998, these and all emissions systems became more sopisticated yet, capable of thorough self tests in the form of "monitors". All vehicles produced today have these sophisticated systems which not only dramtically reduce all types of vehicle caused polution but also monitor themselves to verify proper operation throughout the vehicles' service life. The earliest of OBDII vehicles is now 13 years old. The newest of our 3rd gen F-bodies is 18. Our cars are now becoming rare as are all non OBDII vehicles. The total amount of time that all of our 3rd gens combined are on the road each year is a tiny fraction of all motor vehicle hrs/yr. Soon the EPA will decide that vehicles of this age are such a small contributor to air polution, because of their small number, that they will move the cutoff date for emissions compliance to include our then classic 3rd gens.

For this same reason, while I strongly support the regulation of exhaust emissions. I do not feel that our few remaining 3rd gens are of much consequence, whether they comply with regulations or not. Those who maintain their engines in top running order are doing a great deal to maintain compliance, whether or not their emission systems are functional.

On the other side of the argument. The EVAP system, in proper working order, has no affect whatsoever on performance, it prevents a form of pollution that no other emmission system or any amount of tuning can control. And the canister traps fuel vapors, eliminating the smell of raw fuel eminating from your vehicle, especially on hot days. Of all the possible emmisions systems that one might remove for the sake of weight or performance, EVAP would be the last. (The AIR pump would be first.) But thats another article.

sharkbait

I recently transplanted a 1988 305 TPI motor into a 1975 Nova. The cannister was not included with parts I purchased and the instructions I had recommended eliminating the cannister purge solenoid wiring from the harness and pitching the cannister. In hindsight, I wish I had kept the wiring intact and bought a cannister & soleniod.

My question is can I use an old style vacuum operated cannister (like the one on a 75 Nova) and simply run a line to the intake? Would it create any performance or idiling problems to do so without the computer controlled solenoid?

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

I have never been subjected to emision tests. If you decided to keep the canister and relocate it out of sight or swaped the 4th gen fuel tank that was self contained, what or how would you pass a visual inspection?

robbiemorgan

interesting thread. never really noticed the can till now. went out and had a look. one small vac line is visable, but the rest kinda runs behind the coolant tank. i guess the owner before me hid them a little better. ive been fartin around with my t/a for 13 yrs now. i found the best way to "clean" up the bay is to hide wires, or run them along a better path. for example, the big ones that run over the booster are now under.. made a HUGE difference. when i bought the car, the a/c was shot (line leak). components removed, new fan box. much "cleaner". not gonna worry to much bout this can. windex mabey

crazybird

Wow. I guess you never had a hobby in your life. Or you just cant accept that some people like to tinker and make "projects" for themselves.

crazybird

THis is so gospel. this forum is extremely informative, but there are so many OPINIONATED people. I was raised by hot rodders and I never remember them arguing over someone's idea being dumb or not. Most of the old heads were trying to escape the drama in the domestic lives. why would they want to treat each other like a sewing circle? I too want to know if the canister can be deleted.

crazybird

Man you really come across as a jerk. and you havent offered anything useful.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The charcoal canister is the only hippy-tree-hugging-lobbied-4-funds-to-do-a-costly-study-and-make-a-law-fed-govment-epa-mandated part left on my car.
I only said the above because I wasted 10mins of my life reading the whole thread sooo I thought I better spice it up a bit more.. take it how ya want but im just being silly.
I left mine on and the only reason I did was because of the fumes. It was easier 4 me to relocate it than find a proper vented gas cap. Im sooo lazy! not hard to hide. If you want it off, take it off, if not, leave it alone.