Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Okay guys. I decided to get me some cylinderheads that will go good with my stock block. Here is what Ive got below;

1. LT1 cam
2. Edelbrock Hi-Flow Intake
3. SLP Runners
4. Edelbrock TES (headers)

Which will be a better head to go with?

1. Edelbrock
2. Dart
3. AFR
4. Summit Racing
5. GM Performance

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

This is my forst post here. I've heard that GM Performance Vortec heads are the best bang the buck, but you'll need a vortec intake. If you must stay with emissions, then the Edelbrock or AFR would be a good choice. Have you considered Trick Flow? I am doing a 350 TPI conversion on my 87 Monte Carlo SS, got some good info on the conversion from this forum. Trick flow recommended I go with their 56CC emission legal cylinder heads on my GM goodwrench motor. They said TPI prefers the smaller port sizes of the 56 cc heads. Although, a 56cc head may be too small for your stock TPI motor. Trick flow does have larger emiission legal heads, Hope this helped.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Well word of mouth speaks volumes. To be honost, I've never read on TGO about Trick Flow. All you here about is 195, 195, and 195. And who is the brand? AirFlow Research.

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

Trick Flow has been around for awhile. The heads I bought were 175cc intake runner volume. They have larger heads also, as well as the 195's. Air Flow Research is a different company. I looked at their heads too, good product, just decided to go with Trick Flow. Your correct, word of mouth is always best.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Yup. I'm not talking down on TrickFlow. I'm sure they make a very good product. I just wish that members who do know the product would participate and give they're feed back.

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

Actually the Air Flow Research (AFR) heads flow better than the Trick Flow. Below is a chart that I came up with that shows flow numbers for various heads at .400 valve lift:

FLOW NUMBERS AT .400 LIFT

AFR 195cc 247/197
AFR 180cc 240/190
Trick Flow 195cc 230/163
Edelbrock Performer 230/146
Vortec 227/151
Trick Flow 175cc 219/167
Edelbrock Centerbolt 217/147
World Products S/R Torquer 205/156
L98 Vette 186/151

tmoble

I've used several sets of AFR 195s with excellent results. Right now they seem to be the cream of the crop.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Yup. It's at the top of my purchase list. I'm gonna get the biggest 195 since I do plan on getting a bigger cam in the future.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Look at my sig! My Tricks 195 work pretty good to me. Get a good head porter and they will flow better than AFR's 195.

BuzzLOL

.. Edelbrock E-Street 180cc heads for $909/pair are plenty for your TPI setup and cam... 200cc if going bigger cam (GM 214/224 or 218/228 Hot Cam) and Holley Street/Stealth Ram later...

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Realizing that you will need other stuff to make it work.
Your TPI intake is going to restrict the breathing capacity of a 195 head.
Your intake will die before the heads do so extra breathing of 195's wasted
As others have previously told you ; it is about the whole engine package.
A head / cam only swap may not get you full benefits

spurgeon76

I have the AFR 180's and they can support a lot of cam. I would recommend them to anyone that is not going to step up to a 383 or larger.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Understood. So the 195 will see its greatest potential with something like a HSR, or a MiniRam correct?

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Great feedback guys. Keep em' coming.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Look here
http://xtremecarzone.com.au/index.php?showtopic=386

Disregard what engine the various intakes are fitted to.

Compare on the graphs where the intakes peak at and what rev range they work best at
Long tube runner intake all work at the bottom end; massive torque but flat line over 5K(ish )
Short runner intakes pull past 6K but with less bottom end
( obviously requiring lower diff gears and a higher stall to get engine into operating range faster)

cuisinartvette

AFR180 is plenty for a TPI.

Trick flow you dont hear much about they simply wont make the same power# as the AFR will. They are not a bad head and sure if you like to port they can be picked up. If you have to pay someone after buying them then not worth it.

Dont be swayed by a larger head just cause you want a rumpity cam.
Those heads can handle plenty its your runner length thats going to hold you back.

spurgeon76

My 180's flow 240 at .400 and 260 at .500 lift
My SuperRam only flows 240.24 cfm max

The 180's are more than a TPI will ever need.

abray1

BRODIX IS KING!!!!!!!!! They make all the racing heads for GM. When you buy a bowtie head you are really buying a GM/brodix design made in Mena Arkansas. They also repair there heads in case you have a problem which can be very handy.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I ran AFR 210s on my 350 TPI.. eldelbrock base, plenum and SLP runners all ported 1 3/4 headers.
Ran VERY well (low 12s) and allows for further intake/cam upgrades which is nice if your doing it in stages.
Y buy a small set now then have to get a bigger set later?? Besides the 210s flow more thru the lift ranges than the smaller heads..

Marv02

I have Trick Flows super 23 and 195 runners on my 383 they work good.

But If I was going to buy anouther set it would be a set of Pro-Filers they are the best bang for the buck.

I wish I knew about them before I got my Trick Flows Here's a link for them plus great price and they will make the CC's heads you want.

http://www.profilerperformance.com/r.../sbc-23-degree

Marv02

Just keep in mind dont have to buy the heads that flow the most CFM's even if the highest CFM's you get dont mean the motor you have can take avantage of what the heads can flow at so Why pay all the extra cash for a set of heads you dont need.

It like the K&N filter thing sure they can flow much more air than the stock Air filter but if the motor only need lets say 14.5 pounds of air max for the engine to maxed out it's needs what good it a filter that can flow 2 or 3 times more air it's a nice sales tool but you dont realy need it.

When the Stock type filter can flow that much ar thats needed for the engines needs.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Spoke to a Summit Rep yesterday. I explained my deal to the rep and he told me that even if the 195 AFR wont perform to the fullest with my TPI, that it would be a waste of money to buy a 180 head now, only to buy a 195 in about 5 years (Im planning on building a 383). In other words there is no reason to buy a 180 head and then buy a 195 head later on. So If I were to buy the 195 now, I could just remove it and transfer it to the 383 when Im ready to upgrade.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I like your advice. Called Summit Racing and they told me the same.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I just noticed your breathing package!!! I have (soon to install) the same setup!!!! Im gonna get my Edlebrock HiFlow, SLP Runners, and plenum ported. But Im shooting for the 195 AFR. Im impressed with your low 12's. Cant wait till my 86 see's similar clocked times.

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like a good plan.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

TTOP350, how about these heads here in the link. Which would you recommend me?
http://ws6project.com/user_stor/cata...th=237_241_295

85 roc it

I was in the same boat. I went with AFR 195s after a lot of surfing and talking with the engine builder. you can get them cheaper on here. I got mine on here from a member who sells them direct form AFR. Its a good deal.

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

I installed Trickflow 195s with a ZZ409 cam on my GTA this year. So far I am extremely happy with them. To me they were an excellent deal since I bought them used for $700 and they only had like 2k miles on them and came with the CNC profiled combustion chambers. The AFRs are hands down the best cylinder head out there, but I was on a budget and the Trickflows were at a price I couldn't say no to.

If you want every last bit of power, I'd wait awhile, save up some money and go with the AFRs. If you want to do it on a budget and don't mind giving up like 10-20hp, then the Trickflows even at new price are pretty impressive.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

85 roc it, if you don't mind, who is the member that you bought the AFR's from?
I don't mind the extra buck. Income tax season is just around the corner.

Marv02

This is the flow chart form my Trick flow heads.


Super 23 195 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Chevrolet,
62cc Combustion Chambers

Lift Value Intake Flow CFM Exhaust Flow CFM

.100" 51 58
.200" 136 98
.300" 191 136
.400" 230 163
.500" 253 177
.600" 254 190
Tests conducted at 28" of water (pressure). Bore size: 4.030"
62cc combustion chambers; exhaust with 1

2010

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I would go with the 210s (1054 is what I had) you need to figure out what compression you want Talk w AFR or your machine shop..
There is a guy selling them super cheap on here.
I used to sell them but I changed my career and play with cars as a hobbie now.

I had the older 210s and they rocked, the newer ones are even better.
I had a lot more done to my car than just a motor when I ran those numbers.
If you have a auto talk to Dana at probuilt, you will need that in a big way.


AFR-210-1054---------TFS-195
Lift--I----E-------------I----E

-----------------.100"--51--58
.2-139-110------.200"-136--98
.3-199-158------.300"-191-136
.4-249-192------.400"-230-163
.5-279-210------.500"-253-177
.6-289-214------.600"-254-190
.7-295-220
.8-299-222

28" water psi Bore 4.060 65cc Combustion Chamber 1" 3/4 pipe exh pipe.
The AFR numbers go even higher with a 1" 7/8 exhaust pipe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Really depends on your final goals in the future. 195's will feed a 383 into the low 11's with a HSR or Miniram.... They fit well on stock motors too, even with the mild LT1 cam you have now. AFR, Dart, Brodix, etc, they all have good heads. Get a package that will match the cam you will end up with. Good hyd roller cam for a 383 will need a strong spring if you want to get the most out of the heads rpm potential.

I'd just get a set of econo ported Profiler 195's with custom matched springs/etc from Chad Speier or Dr. J's Peformance. That way you get a custom head setup for your application with the valves and springs you want. OR get AFR 195's or so, as they are a great out of the box head. Their upgrade spring package will handle most hyd rollers.

Marv02

Like I said before if I knew about Profiler this the heads I would of purchased rather than my Trick Flows better bang for the buck.

I not putting Down AFR heads but I still think Profiler can be a better deal in the long run.

Plus look at the flow rate of the Profiler .308 intake with out any other mods.

BuzzLOL

.. The All USA-made Profilers were on sale last year around Xmas for $995/pair in only one size...

.. Now this year available in 3 sizes, 185cc, 195cc, 210cc, for $950/pair..!! . Looks like one of the best deals out there if they don't gouge on shipping and handling... they're not far from here, I'd prolly just go pick them up if I got some... after I use up these MoTown 220cc heads...

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Pro-Filer, AFR? Damb. What a price difference. Which to choose? Now I'm getting slammed with a tough choice.

Marv02

Ha Ha like I said if I knew about these heads also before got my Trick flows I would gotten the Pro-Filer my self.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Depends on the components and the goals for the motor. From the sounds of it, you dont need fancy stuff right now but down the road, you'll need good springs for an aggressive cam swap/upgrade.

So depending on how far out your next build is, you can get a decent head with cheap springs to run the LT1 cam for now, and then do the new build with new cam and match the valvesprings to the cam.

Or you can buy it all right now...either way both heads with similar quality/spec springs will be about the same in price. Profiler a little bit cheaper but can make just as much power if not more if you know what you are doing.

AFR out of the box with their upgrade 8019 spring can handle just about any hyd roller cam you will want to run on the street. The 8mm stem valves are lighter than standard sbc valves so that helps high rpm stability. Thats one of the main selling points for AFR, is that they come with light valve train and strong small diameter springs which are great for hyd roller builds. The heads are basically modeled after LS1 type engines which use small diameter springs, 8mm valves, etc. Only problem is, AFR ports are designed to be fast velocity ports, so they can choke out sooner at higher rpms compared to another head that may CC the same volume. This is why you can run AFR 210's on a 355 and still have good throttle response..the ports promote good low speed cylinder fill.

Marv02

If you want to learn more about heads take a look at grumpy's Forum:

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/...php?f=52&t=796

peterc005

I've been thinking of buying some Procomp 195 aluminium heads from Skip White. Seem good and a great price.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I had I had posted on another thread about the procomps. I was told that they where junk.

the blur

113 C4 heads

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

305sbc

iTrader: (3)

He means 113 castings, - aluminum L98 heads from a Corvette.

While not remarkable as cast, with the right port work they are great performers on street engines.
LPE used to port these and use them on most of their SBC combos.
If you are good at DIY porting, then they give a very good performance/$ ratio.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lloyd Elliot can do portwork to 113 castings. They are very similar to LT1 heads but not as much meat so they dont flow as much when fully ported but like said above, they can do very well on a street build.

Once ported they are basically like the old AFR 190's which can make enough power to run high 11's in a thirdgen

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Made my decision. AFR 210's because I'm planning on going bigger in the future.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Good choice. Can feed a 383 to near 6600-6800 rpms with those heads with large enough cam. Seen them make 600hp+ on race motors

Way overkill for a TPI with LT1 cam right now but it will still run and make decent power since its a fast velocity port with 2.08" squ. cross sectional area.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Still can't believe how cheap they are for the price that
the other member sells them for. He quoted me $1420 for the 210's, plus shipping!!!! Very good price I say.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

It'll be a hell of an upgrade for me. I have some crappy Chevy swirl port heads that are used for hauling. Good low torque but lost all power above 40 mph with the pedal punched.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its been shown here that AFR 195's on a stock L98 with aftermarket intake can pick up 40hp. The heads will make power even with a mild stock cam so you should still tell theres a performance gain after the tune, even tho the intake by itself wont come near the flow the AFR 210 heads have, it still will pick up power.