1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Runner #1 is an issue but I don't know as to what degree at this point in time. The throttle body will be tilted out 10 degrees at the top as will the front wall, so that will help as the air will be aimed more to the roof of the plenum. Also the tilting will move the throttle body away from the runner a little more. Once it is assembled I will look at the area once more and maybe weld in a deflector plate of some sort. As stated the throttle body being a monoblade will also be an aid. We shall see.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Good job so far! Intake looks impressive. I wish i could weld alum or even just tack it together. Id be welding up a custom intake for my car right now haha using straight runner tubes like your ls3 ones

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

OK, some more progress pictures. We finally got the front welded on where the throttle body goes and the side plate where the throttle cable attaches. Still deciding on the #1 cylinder runner by the throttle body. I might but an air deflector in that location. Here are 3 pictures.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

FPI - "Franken-port Injection" j/k

What would it hurt to just shave the runners flat with the lower plate of the plenum? Wouldn't that address your air into runner concerns? By doing so you could also make the plenum smaller.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I could do that. In fact I could mill the runners down to about flat with the plenum floor if necessary. The reason they are the length they are is to pick up the 3rd harmonic wave for extra power.

I might install a curved vane in front of #1 runner to deflect air to the passenger side and #1 & 2 runner entrances. In the mean time I will finish off the construction with the lid being next up.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Wondering if side mount tb like ford 5.0 would be more beneficial here? Did you post this to speedtalk?

ASE doc

Is it necessary to have the left front corner cut back so far? It places the 2/4 runner entries very close to the front wall. It seems that more of an angle from the TB back to that corner would un-shroud those runner entries.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Yes, and one suggestion was twin throtte bodies up front. One on each side. That would work real well. Then what throttle bodies?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Yes, as you have to be able to get the throttle, TV and cruise control cables to the bracket without bending them way out of shape.

ASE doc

Yes, of course. It may not be an issue. As long as you produce equal pressure at the runner entries.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Twin ls1 tb's but thats alot of tb for that motor. Maybe some smaller 4-6 cylinder tb that maybe a single 50-60mm bore? Ls1 would be nice since the sensors splice in. As long as you can put both blades on same shaft, only one tps and iac is needed but it likely would need alot of ae enrichment lol

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I am hoping for a reply from Madbill over on Speedtalk. He made a couple of suggestions but I need a sketch or drawing to make sure of what he is talking about. I don't think I will put on the plenum top this Friday as planned but work on some other areas. I want to take some time and think this over as the air distribution in the plenum is the key to making this intake work correctly.

vwdave

Whats the expected RPM range?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Hope to shift around the 6500-6600rpm mark.

ASE doc

As far as dual TBs go(I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread). I can't remember the exact geometry but visit your local wrecking yard and take a look at any Chrysler 3.5 V6 from the late 90s to mid 00s. They all used dual throttle bodies and you might get an idea of how to set up the shaft by studying their design. The dual TBs would solve some problems for you. I think as large as dual 70mm would be fine. Even larger may work, though as Orr said, AE may be an issue if you get too much pressure drop on tip in.

I think your design could work quite well, even as it stands. The exhaust temp probes will clue you into any starvation of individual cylinders and you can make modifications to address that. As I watched the early stages of development, I thought you might be going with dual plenums. This is where I had the idea of copying the Chrysler 3.5's TB linkage design. I see now what you were planning in the first place. I will have to see the results for myself to see how it works out. Excellent progress so far.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Fast82Z went that route, too...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...-tt-build.html

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Thanks guys. My original hope was that the plenum would be large enough to overcome any air distribution problems. As ASE Doc stated it might just work as is. The #1 runner will help in blocking the air from running on by to the back of the plenum. Maybe a couple of well placed vanes. Still thinking this over.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Is there any possibility of testing as is before doing changes? Mockup header with o2 bungs in all ports and just check each one at idle and then heavy throttle to see whats goin on? Obviously this would be best way but expensive and time consuming.

But if you look at the hsr and how the front 4 cylinder group is right behind throttle and the rear all the way in the back, would think that the rear would starve for air and it did for me alittle but not overly terrible. So perhaps your design with large volume may be ok. Maybe a few issues but nothing you cant tune around

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

We are going to put the motor on the dyno at Westech in Miraloma, California. They are fully set up for EFI including O2 sensors for each exhaust port. So yes that will be done.

ASE doc

Wow! That is a brutal high revving intake setup. I assume of course that it is plumbed to cool air and not sucking in from the hot underhood.

gbayfisher

Not sure if this idea would make much difference, but if there is a distribution problem, a pipe or tube installed on the floor of the intake going from the front to the back area may help equalize any pressure differences that may cause an issue. I was considering doing this to the HSR before I decided on the First. Just a thought.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Just back from the welder. Got quite abit done. We are almost there. Here are some pictures.

Front Top View



Front View Throttle Body Angle



Drivers Side View

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

...and two more pictures.


Back Side View



Passenger Side View

project89

iTrader: (1)

very nice man , and as streelethal said def fput a suport in the middle of the plenum.
i was building the sheetmetal intakes for the v6 guys aka the pizza boxes, my first designes worked very well and the lid was made out of 1/8th in aluminum but it still flexed with vacum over 18 inches and boost over 12 psi

2 simple 3/8's pices of roundstock welded to the floor and roof of the plenum spaced out from the center solved all the flexing issues and caused no airflow issues

when i was making the intakes i actually used a much heavier piece of aluminum on the floor so thats why it didnt just flex the top and plenum floor



u have alot more plenum volume in ur intake then what i had for the v6 guys so ur going to have alot more forces trying to suck that thing down or push it up if boosted

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

You are correct. We are going to have 4 "pillers" strategically located just for that reason. They will be shaped something like an "hour glass" being thin in the middle. Also not shown are a couple of gussets giving support to the side panels.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i dont belive u should have to hour glass shape them i saw no air distribution changes or any adverse effects adding mine in and leaving them just roundstock

camarorookie

You're making two of those, right?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Thank you for your input. I will keep that in mind.

"You're making two of those, right?"

Hahahaha. Just the one as an experiment.

vwdave

I love seeing stuff like this.

One thing I am concerned about though, the stacks sticking up beyond the floor of the intake, are they going to cause awkward angles for airflow? Or is that going to be milled down and flat?

cuisinartvette

THink he will be ok the runners will pull air from wherever need be.
Even if there was a slight runner feed issue hes not at WOT all the time.
Bet it will work out for him
Cant wait to see how it runs.

camarorookie

Oh well, I don't think it would fit under the hood of my Corvette anyway.
Nice work like always.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

No, they will stay that way. Couple of goals with this intake. One is as straight a shot into the intake valve that I can make. The other is to tune into the 3rd harmonic wave to pick up the boost.

ASE doc

Looks like it's about ready for testing. Looks great! Very exciting stuff!

ASE doc

BTW, have I told you that you make me a little sick? All that creativity and the motivation to see it through. It's really kind of nauseating.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Maybe in couple of weeks it will be done. Very little left to do.

TA

iTrader: (1)

Looks really good Alan. I am very curious to see what the results are. I'm hoping there will be another Gunmetal GTA on the dyno when yours is ready to test.

TA

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Troy. I am really anxious to see what your new set up does on the dyno and at the track. It should really put down some numbers. Hopefully on the next dyno day Don will have installed my 2nd long tube runner project. The one in this thread will be going on an engine dyno.

Last week with got the stanchions done. Going to work on head/intake manifold gasket surface this Friday. It has warped some with all the welding and I may have to get it welded up and resurfaced. That is just about it.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

We are just about there. Here is a picture showing the welding on the head mating surface. 3 sides were down about .060" from the center reference point and one side was down about .070". So we had a pow-wow and decided to weld it back up and leave the center section alone for a reference point. That way we should not have to cut it much from the factory cut. Here is a picture of one side of the welded up gasket face.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Unreal......

85IROCzzz

iTrader: (1)

Any updates?

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Wouldn't it have been easier to start off with some head to manifold plates, fabricate a valley cover and go from there? You could have easily constructed a thermostat housing by buying a remote housing and cutting it down or cutting one out of an original manifold??? Love the construction and the welding but IMO it's a shame you see the butchered up stock manifold under there.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Love th construction and the welding vut IMO it's a sham you see the butchered up stock manifold under there."

For now that is how it will look. If things go well on the engine dyno than some further work will be warranted.

Yes there are some updates. The machining is virtually finished and I would say we are now about 98% percent there. We are going to see how it fits on the long block Saturday after the final machining of the head port surfaces. I might make some adjustments to the ports depending on how everything lines up with the heads. Then comes a trip out to the engine dyno facility to see what I need to hook up a distributor and a fuel line to the fuel rails. So we are getting very close. I would post a picture but it does not look much different than what has been posted.

ASE doc

I for one appreciate that you have the courage, creativity, and where with all to design and carry out these projects, even if I hate you just a little for it.

I have certainly envisioned a different approach but I'm nowhere near being ready to undertake such a project myself. Thank you sir for forging new paths for the rest of us to follow.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

A little update today. Went over and test fitted the TPI Cross Ram intake manifold on the 383 motor this evening. The ports lined up real good to the head. I took one picture on my cell phone and others on a camera. The pictures on the camera were lost for some reason. I only have the one cell phone picture. Anyways if you look good you can see the intake valve. I am pretty happy with the way this project is turning out. That is a pretty straight shot into the intake valve.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I was looking at the motors that where entered in the Engine Masters contest for this year and low and behold there as an Accel SuperRam entered by the University of North Carolina @ Charlotte. It appears they lost a cylinder so were not able to finish up. Looked very promising. I found that very interesting as this project is based on the Accel SuperRam.

ASE doc

I wonder what sort of results they were getting with the Superram.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Here is a link to the Engine Masters results. The UNC motor is about 3/4 of the way down. It takes about a minute on my computer to download.

http://www.facebook.com/pophotroddingmag?ref=ts&fref=ts

ASE doc

Oh yeah, that's a Superram alright. I don't see any dyno results but they wouldn't be correct for the motor anyway since they lost a cylinder. It'd interesting that they would choose the Superram for this competition. They obviously see potential there. You gotta love the intake snorkel. I'm sure it actually works very well.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Ok, some pictures of the TPI Cross Ram on the actual motor it will be going on for the dyno pulls. 600hp is the goal. One more machining operation and we should be there.

Here is one looking right down the port into the intake valve.



Showing the distributor in place.



Front View.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Two more pictures.

Right side view.



Left Side view.