kylet8020

Started this in tbi... ment to pot here but owell. New question same problem I looked but dd not find the answer so just a quick yes or no. Can I bypass the ops near the oil filter by using a jumper wire? I've checked everything else relays ae good, fuses are fine. This will not be a perm. Fix just need to see if this will fix my problem so that I'm not just thowing parts at the car.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=35
http://www.hotrodlane.cc/newtech/tun...elcircuit.html

kylet8020

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...-problems.html

I've tested all of it... everything I test is working..

kylet8020

Hop the pic posted there are 2 relays 1 near the fender the other right beside it what one u want me to test and jump again? I'll go back over it

kylet8020

ill retest what one u want me to try this time

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The fp relay is the middle of the three the outside toward drivers fender is the fan relay the inner most is for the maf.

kylet8020

I will retest the middle one again also jump it to see if it will start

kylet8020

Btw how can the one by the fender be a fan relay when both fan relays are by my battery? Are there 3 relays for the fans?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

You have a Maf power, fuel pump and maf burnoff relay up by the firewall.

kylet8020

I got a orange, blue, red, black and tan wire. I gim gettin fuel when I jump the tan and orange wire, also gettin fuel to the rails now woohoo... black wire is now known to be a good ground, problem is what is the red and blue wire for? tested both with a test light I'm not eening the 2 sec light up like I should so should I see the test light light up for 2 sec on the red or the blue?

kylet8020

Ty for that info my next problem is a code thrown for maf so now I know where ill be working next.

kylet8020

Well after tracking down a bad wire the pump is working kinda.... when I jump the relay I get great fuel pressure to the rails. But with th relay installed trying to start the car I get very very lil fuel pressure. Bought a new relay thinking the relay was going bad. This did not fix the lack of fuel pressure while cranking the car over... any ideas on this?

kylet8020

I've now checked the ignition control, and It's fine what should be a green and white wire on most I believe to be the blue wire on mine. I'll be checking this tomorrow to see if I'm getting anything but dont really know what I'm looking for other than a 2 sec prime. If this is not the problem then all I can assume is that the ecm is bad. If anyone has a ideal on anything else for Me to check before I start having to throw cash at this car I'd be grateful. I have to have this car back up and running... Still having a crank no start, all info from both sites have been used but nothing seems to fit what I'm working on. I get fuel pressure to the rails when i jump the relay but with the relay put back in I'm getting no fuel pressure. I know the pump is good getting 40 lbs of fuel pressure with the relay jumped. I really need to figure this out I'm not closer to finding the problem then i was last week..

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

if you have done all the trouble shooting double check the ecm ground behind the passenger head and looks like you need a new 1227165.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

you might want to look for corrosion on the maf relay.

kylet8020

So the MAC relay in inline with the fuel pump... I'll have to check it out later on they put my gma in the re and I'm waiting at the hospital, to see what's going on with her so might not beable to do anything today but will post that I find.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Hope all is well !

kylet8020

All was good with.her did not get a chance to mess with the camaro to day so ill look at it tomorrow and post what I find. If i get a few mins tonight might just do it. Is there away to test the ecm? Without taking the whole Car to the dealer?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

while cranking the engine you should have power at B2 of the ecm if the oil pressure switch is ok. The 1227165 ecm when it fails it fails unlike the 1227730 ecm that usually give intermittent issues. The dealer has no way to bench test your ecm.

kylet8020

Did not get anytime to check to night where is b2 at on the ecm I'll check for power. But this is what has me stumped I have fuel pressure jumping the relay.... But none with the relay installed but It's given the 2sec prime. So wdf even if the ecm is shot the pump is running to prime the fuel rail for start. But why no fuel pressure at prime.

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Not making sense
If you have the 2 sec prime , ECM is running the pump as it is supposed to.
End of story

The fact you have no pressure building in rails is not a elec or control problem

If you can build pressure with the jumpered pump running longer then you likely have a fuel reg ( or the one way valve on line in tank ) problem
that is allowing the 2 sec prime to bleed off
In any case
the engine should get fuel pressure and start when cranking over as soon as the OP switch ( assuming it is connected and working ) cuts in
bypassing the relay to run the pump directly ( as shown in the diagram above ) as it is designed to

Will the engine start with the pump running fulltime by having the relay jumpered ?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

To better serve you, what is the problem you are having???

kylet8020

No it hits but does not start my fuel pressure Reg. Is holding vacuum. And atm only thing I've not double checked is the injectors but will do that today.

kylet8020

Problem I'm having is a crank no start. I left the hood open and killed the battery. Charged the battery over night went to start the car and got nothing, thought to myself crap she's out of fuel. Well after putting 5 gallons in I was still getting a no start. But i was not hearing the, fuel pump, hmm fuse is bad. Checked all fuses all good wdf, so starting looking around here. Well after some digging the ground was bad cleaned it up and now have a great ground. Well after finding the ground problem I have had this crank no start problem..... I jumped the fuel pump relay to check and make sure the pump was working. Well after making sure the pump was working I installed the relay, still no start. I get pressure with the relay jumped. But with the relay installed I get no fuel pressure I'm not sure this is ele. Problem but unsure where to go from here. Dead battery started the ele. Problem so I've assumed it was ele keeping the car from starting. I've been reading on all-data bout the problem and have talked to a few auto mechanic they have been stumped by this problem. I have no where else to go atm and am open to trying anything at this point I'm lost. This car was bought as a project/dd till tax time hits then It's gettin put in the body shop or I'm buying tools to do body work. Is something to me and my wife to enjoy driving and I enjoy working on them, I do have automotive back ground but by no means am I a mechanic.

IROCU2

A engine needs three things to run. Spark, fuel and air. Sounds like you have the air and fuel checked off. Have you check for spark yet? Just a thought. Its the simple things that gets us sometime.

kylet8020

I was thinking, ya know what would get this fixed and me hit a few times. Cold beer and bbq get some of these thirdgen gurus over here and let them to go at this thing... Then when It's a simple thing I've over looked, it has to be let them get one free hit in... That or pound of c4 and 10 feet of detcord... Or the problem is a born and raised Ford fan is trying to fix this Chevy... But then again I'm not bias and love all things with a v8. But I'm just thinking out loud now. Lol

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Do you have a fuel psi gauge? if so hook it up to make sure you do have psi.
If you hit the key just to check fuel psi 4 the 2 second prime and do it again quickly you prolly wont hear the pump until you crank the motor (unless something else is wrong). There is a wait time between primes.
Are you getting 12 volts to the pump connector while cranking? or 12 volts at the fuelpump relay (term E and C while cranking)?
Did you check the litttle fuse by the battery? (its easy to to forget)
How did you jumper the relay ? power wire from the batt?? or ??

kylet8020

40 psi jumping the relay went from Orange wire to tan or was it gray anyway jumper was using relay connections. I read bout the wait time, I am gettin 12v at the pump while cranking. But did not test at the relay power only back probed it with a test light, did check the fuse by the battery. Ill have some free time in a few mins and check power at the relay.

kylet8020

Yes sir I do have spark good spark to, was the2nd thing I thought of. Bot tryin to work by myself on this I found out when it got me....

kylet8020

Well I'm finally able to check out the camaro today. I'm goin from step 1 and going To go Thu everything again. Also check what everyone else as asked or said check again to make sure I'm not missing anything. I'll post up what i find soon as I get done checking it out. And again to all thanks for any and all info that you have provided.

kylet8020

Ok so.. injectors are pulsing, 12v at fuel pump , ground for relay is good, power to relay is good, getting volts at b2, good spark, 40 lbs of pressure at fuel rail jumping the relay. Pump is working while cranking, along with volts to relay while cranking volts to fuel pump while cranking both good. Still no fuel pressure while cranking or at prime........ Fuel pressure reg. Holds vacuum, don't smell fuel at the fuel pressure reg. Fuses are fine just FYI. And i bought 2 relays both don't help the problem. Jumped the opsu to see if it was bad no go here... Hmmm...... As of now I've checked everything that I know to also. Ecm numbers 01227165 don't think It's the ecm tho.. also checked the maf relax lil dirty but cleaned up and checked the relay. Going to get come carb cleaner to see if it will start on that... Was something a buddy said to try.. let ya all know what happens.

kylet8020

Well Good news Idk what I changed but I'm gettin pressure at crank now!!!!!!!!!! No start but I'll take a lil win over nothing so I'm goin to trouble shoot this for now and post my findings in a lil bit.. again thxs for all the help guys my faith in this car has been boosted

kylet8020

Lol... Back to square 1 now no fuel pressure on prime... But now my fans are kicking on when I put the key in run. Lol wdf...

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

sounds like a bad ecm.

kylet8020

I gotta ask what makes you think that I'm not goin y say Ur wrong but why do ya think the ecm is bad. And how can I be sure before I drop 100 on a new ecm

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

usually if the car is in lhm or the ecm is faulty or the memcal is not seated the cooling fans will come on with the key in the koeo position. You can pick up a cheap ecm in the classifieds here from anyone parting out a 86-89 tpi camaro just swap in your memcal.
1227165,16198259,16198445 any of those service numbers will work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AcDelco-1619...r#ht_500wt_951

Easy to find one at the junk yard !!
Year Vehicle Engine Notes
1987-90 Astro/Safari van 2.5L 4 cylinder
1987-88 Blazer S10/Jimmy S15 2.5L 4 cylinder
1991 Blazer S10/Jimmy S15 4.3L 6 cylinder
1991 Bravada
1987 Camaro/Firebird 5.7L 8 cylinder
1988 Camaro/Firebird 5.0L 8 cylinder with MFI
1988 Camaro/Firebird 5.7L 8 cylinder
1986-87 Camaro/Firebird 5.0L 8 cylinder with EFI
1989 Camaro/Firebird 5.0L 8 cylinder with MFI
1989 Camaro/Firebird 5.7L 8 cylinder
1986 Cavalier/Cimarron 2.0L 4 cylinder with manual trans
1986 Firenza/Skyhawk/Sunbird 2.0L 4 cylinder
1986-89 Corvette 5.7L 8 cylinder
1987-91 S10/S15/Sonoma 2.5L 4 cylinder
1991 S10/S15/Sonoma 4.3L 6 cylinder

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

If A1 At the ecm is not sending the 2 second power to the relay, bad ecm.

kylet8020

But i am gettin a 2sec prime.. just no pressure

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

sorry I was confused with post 32

kylet8020

Checked everything again today. After everything ele. Seemed good i hooked up my fuel pressure gauge and got pressure at prime and at crank. Was hitting but not starting, after coming in side to post. #32 I went back to mess with it and check it over to see y I was gettin a no start even tho I had pressure and spark. I had left my fuel gauge hooked up and when i went to crank it again I was getting no pressure again... I had check the cap to make sure the plug wires where on right *taken the icm* to get checked out, as I was checking the plugs I noticed that there was a relay clicking as i messed with the cap even tho the key was off......

kylet8020

Anyone got a wiring diagram of the icm. I check the resistance on all 4 of the wires in the left plug. All came back as 50.8 k but 1 the white. Or maybe it was tan at one point. Need to chase it down see if anything is wrong with it. If anyone's got any Info on this let me know thxs.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

kylet8020

How should I try and diagnos these wires? The white one is got a low reading.. spark timing @d4.... I'm just chasing my shadow it seems..

kylet8020

As much as I hate this I've given my self a deadline to figure this out.... 25 It's goin to the shop.... Hate when other people work on my cars....... But I need it running..... If anyone reads Thu this and knows of anything else I should try before taking to the shop... Let me know.. they will not be fixing anything or replacing anything only diagnosis the problem. Problem is I have a feeling they are Going to tell me It's a bad pump with out checking really well.. but the shop I talked to told me 80$ to figure out what's up. So I guess It's 80$ and I can stop pulling my hair out. And again to everyone who has tried to help me thank-you so much.

kylet8020

Well finally got a can of starting fluid..... Even tho I loaded the motor with it, the engine would not even hit... So I'm working on 2 different problems. And yes I got spark...

kylet8020

Tunedperformanc do you have a pic of the ecm so I know what plugs are what. I was doing some reading and another member had a problem where the prime cycle was running but the signal wire should put out 5volts his was putting out half. I wanna see if this could be the couse for all my problems. Deserting the timing today so that I can try and fire the motor off with some starting fluid.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

http://www.chevythunder.com/fuel%20i...%20pinouts.htm

kylet8020

Thank you very much sir

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

kylet8020

Look there above and beyond the call, thank you again hopefully I'll have a min to check everything out today.