TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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Originally posted by 89blackbird These Heads are 58 cc and will boost compression over standard heads.I believe it will be 10:1 This will help horsepower but it will require better gas. I plan on putting these on my 89 GTA and have been told if I use a dished piston my compression will be 9.5 to 1 and also believe it gives a better swirl in the chamber. I hope to find out.
Hey there, Hope those heads actually get to ya
But as far as the dished piston comment dished pistons are a hinderance to swirl. Flat tops are your best bet, domes and dishes kinda mess up the geometery for swirl. However if you NEED dished, get a semi inverted dome, that way you do have a flat raised portion for the purposes of swirl, instead of just a full "dish".
Originally posted by crucial And maybe to add some technical info to this.... I've had these heads on my car for a few thousand miles. I bought them brand new from a GM dealer. I'm dissapointed in their performance with TPI which is the reason I decide to sell them and go with Trick Flows. I had a pretty good cam, SLP runners, custom chip etc etc and I was still in the low mid 13s. It might be a wise idea to give them a port job when you receive them. Hell for the price you them for... it would be worth it.
By the way, Judging by the pictures I was looking at of this gimp on his site, He's taken one to many soccer balls to the head. Maybe he was the early R&D for his Gaydar detector he sells.
There ya go crucial, stand in front of this ball and tell me how fast it comes flying at your head.
IF they port and polish the Combustion chamber dosnt that help lower compression, The pistons i bought and the headgasket which is Felpro 1010 made a compression of 9.5.1 now since the shop ported my combustion champer does it lower the compression? He also says itll help atomization and make more power. Is this true.
Originally posted by tpi_roc
But as far as the dished piston comment dished pistons are a hinderance to swirl. Flat tops are your best bet, domes and dishes kinda mess up the geometery for swirl. However if you NEED dished, get a semi inverted dome, that way you do have a flat raised portion for the purposes of swirl, instead of just a full "dish".
A true flat top piston with no reliefs or anything would be the absolute worst thing to promote swirl in the combustion chamber. The piston top ideally would match the combustion chamber in the head perfectly except for one side, the exhaust side. You would want to have one side (like intake vs. exhaust side) of the piston different from the other to help 'kick' the mixture and keep the swirl going when the piston is at BDC. A half dished piston (with quench pad in the appropriate spot) is at least better than a flat top since there is some abnormality to the surface to kinda stir up the air as the piston moves.
GM put a square block of sorts right where the plug is with the intention of promoting swirl on the vette AL heads, but its also a hindrance to flow due to the design and would work better if it were modified.
As far as 'porting' the combustion chamber, it will decrease the compression but by how much I wouldnt know, depends on how much he removes. If its done right, it can help with atomization and power, but polishing it is a bad idea. It should have a smooth surface but 'scratched' (as if you took some 180 grit sandpaper to it) to prevent fuel from sticking to it and to help atomize the fuel.
Well guys I did check the the number Edmond sent me this morning.The the heads left Vegas Monday and are know in NJ. The sad part of this whole thing is that if Edmond needed time to take the the heads off I would have had no problem with that.I would have paid for them and waited. Unlike he has told some of you he never said anything about that at all. I sent the money order out Jan 3 . The post office claimed 2-4 days to get there. I really got worried when I could not make any contact for weeks. All phone numbers I got the people said they never heard of him.Then the e-mails started rolling in. All bad. Not one person had anything good to say. I don't even have the motor out of my car yet, like I said I just wanted to be told what was going on. I still am getting e-mails asking me what to do.(they seem to have a problem too) I am glad to see how car guys came to help. You all are great and I hope we all learned somthing from this,I have. THANKS AGAIN guys for your support.
OH MY *** I JUST READ THIS POST!! I cant believe he is back at it. Man I feel sorry for you. I went threw this crap about 3 months ago with Edmond/Crucial/Synery/NRG/NRGZ28. He is just a waste of space on this board and in life. I went after his as much as I could he wouldnt respond to my emails nothing. Then when I brought it to the boards and layed it out on the table he denied that he got my chip, denied I had any problem with it, and tried to say chips for an 89 TBI camaro cost 11 bucks and he was waiting for them cuz they were on back order. To make a long story short he got hammered by everyone, his name got ruinded and he said he would give me back my money for chips and the shipping. I never got it, but I wasnt about ot fight it out again. I feel bad that I didnt let everyone know that he stiffed me the loot. I am sorry. I Really cant belive this at all, some poeple will do anything for a buck. Like I said Sorry man, I feel bad about this. Keep us posted and Edmond or who ever you are....Drop dead.
Don't let him do you in.Go after him.the law will go down on this stuff. It is worth the time to stop this crap. I guess he figures your to far away to do anything. he's wrong.How did you pay? Come on Edmond give this guy his money! did you contact Chris about his tires. Hell his is no problem he used a credit card. No problem let them come after you. GET WITH IT!
I paid him with Pay Pal and we did it threw Emails. The best part is on the boards we have him saying that we did business threw Email so he cant back out on it
Pay Pal is cedit card. Contact them and tell them what happened.It will be up to him to prove it sent the item. They will go after your money .You also have protection from fraud by mail. I will send you the internet fraud protection site put up by the FBI. tell them to view the posts on this site as starters. Go to the z28 site and see what they have to say.
sending a complaint to Paypal might not do any good. If the kid has no balance with paypal you won't get your money back. It happened to me before, when dealing with some shady prick from FL. I'd sugest you visit turbobuick.com and read "Anyone know Joe Cipolla?" It'll give you a few tips on how to deal with Bud Bundy aka NRG. And talk to CRKHEDMATT on CamaroZ28.com, last I knew he was a member of TruSpeed and holds a high rank on CZ28.
EDIT: I see Tony already pointed out the Joe Cipolla thing...
Last edited by Get Blown ?; 01-29-2002 at 11:00 PM.
Just wanted to post real quick on this subject. A few of my good friends recently returned form Wyo-tech, where they had gotten to know a guy who started and heads up a car club in Las Vegas. What is this car club you may ask. Why, he happens to be the head of truspeed. Well I told my buddies about this last night, and they were ***kin pissed, and assured me that he will be as well. As i type this, they are emailing him (his name is anthony, if this is being doubted edmond) and telling him about the crap that is being pulled. From all i have heard from my friends, this guy is the exception to the rule, and the rest of the club is an outstanding group of people who are in it for the cars, just like the rest of us. I just wanted to post this, and explain the situation a little, so that the club doesnt get a bad name over this, because im sure that they most likely had no idea he was doing it. As of right now, we are trying to start a chicago chapter of truspeed, but i can tell you that the majority of us have decided to put it on hold until this all gets straightened out. I will keep you guys updated on what happens to this guy if i hear anything more.
Ummmmmmmm.... Bzzzzzzzzzzzt wrong answer. A true flat top piston with no reliefs or anything would be the absolute worst thing to promote swirl in the combustion chamber. The piston top ideally would match the combustion chamber in the head perfectly except for one side, the exhaust side. You would want to have one side (like intake vs. exhaust side) of the piston different from the other to help 'kick' the mixture and keep the swirl going when the piston is at BDC. A half dished piston (with quench pad in the appropriate spot) is at least better than a flat top since there is some abnormality to the surface to kinda stir up the air as the piston moves.
GM put a square block of sorts right where the plug is with the intention of promoting swirl on the vette AL heads, but its also a hindrance to flow due to the design and would work better if it were modified.
As far as 'porting' the combustion chamber, it will decrease the compression but by how much I wouldnt know, depends on how much he removes. If its done right, it can help with atomization and power, but polishing it is a bad idea. It should have a smooth surface but 'scratched' (as if you took some 180 grit sandpaper to it) to prevent fuel from sticking to it and to help atomize the fuel.
Dont BZZZZZZZZZZT me!
This is the real world where Arco sells chitty gas and we need to live with compression below 10:1, with your idea of a mirrored combustion chamber piston you're talking alcohol burning levels of compression. As far as that "square" block you speak of I'd be under the Impression that its there to help take up volume and reach the 58cc chamber size.
I would also like to add that I'd smooth my combustion chambers as much as possible, mirror If I could. You dont want carbon build up do to that "180 grit" surface. However the intake runner should never be mirror smooth. Thats where you want to make sure vapor doesn't collect and become dropplets, but by the time the fuel/air charge hits the combustion chamber there's such turbulance and violence it'd never have a chance to collect or pool up.
Those are my theorys that have worked for me thus far
Also a shiny exhaust runner's a good idea since you have no worries about atomization at that point.
Actually I'm not talking alcohol burning levels at all.
The square block has long been documented as GM's attempt to promote swirl on those heads. Its referred to as a 'swirl pad.'
The 'mirror' finish is also a bad idea, the fuel will try to stick to the smooth surface more than it will a rough one. Not 100% on why yet but my guess is the air cant get under the fuel on a smooth surface to break the fuel away unlike if its rough. Its just like on the intake runner, you want it the as the same surface to help keep the air-fuel mix atomized until its combusted. Look at it this way, you know you dont want to polish the intake port in the head where theres unburned fuel present along with air, so why would you want the combustion chamber, which will have unburned fuel and air present, to be mirror smooth?
Seriously, go here: www.theoldone.com and read the articles. Theres stuff there on swirl, stratified air fuel mix, surface finish, and if the UBB ever gets back up there should be good posts to look at as well. The guy who wrote most of the stuff there is the same guy who had a Honda in hot rod or car craft or whatever mag it was recently thats running 12:1 and a supercharger on pump gas. Yes, he knows what the heck he is doing.
this is my vette heads after about 380 miles on them , looks like crap
__________________ 92' camaro( Sebring Silver)
87' TPI 305 block, Flat top pistons,Bore over .030 Forged Internals,Edelbrock intake,ported plennum,ported corvette alluminum heads, accel cam(74211), Home made cold air induction, ,ford SVO 19lb injectors,Holley AFPR,cloys timing chain, comp 1.5 alluminum roller rocker arms and pushrods MSD 8.5 mm wires, FR3LS Delco spark plugs, hypertech cap & rotor and coil, Edelbrock TES headers, free flowing catalytic converter and a 3 inch force II flowmaster exhaust system.
Suspension:KYB shocks,Lakewood LCA,PHB,Poly bushings.
Drivetrain:4th gen 3.42 posi rear,T-56,SLP clutch
Soon to install:
BBS single turbo system
T61 turbo 6psi
Evolution Wastegate.
Originally posted by madmax Actually I'm not talking alcohol burning levels at all.
The square block has long been documented as GM's attempt to promote swirl on those heads. Its referred to as a 'swirl pad.'
The 'mirror' finish is also a bad idea, the fuel will try to stick to the smooth surface more than it will a rough one. Not 100% on why yet but my guess is the air cant get under the fuel on a smooth surface to break the fuel away unlike if its rough. Its just like on the intake runner, you want it the as the same surface to help keep the air-fuel mix atomized until its combusted. Look at it this way, you know you dont want to polish the intake port in the head where theres unburned fuel present along with air, so why would you want the combustion chamber, which will have unburned fuel and air present, to be mirror smooth?
Seriously, go here: www.theoldone.com and read the articles. Theres stuff there on swirl, stratified air fuel mix, surface finish, and if the UBB ever gets back up there should be good posts to look at as well. The guy who wrote most of the stuff there is the same guy who had a Honda in hot rod or car craft or whatever mag it was recently thats running 12:1 and a supercharger on pump gas. Yes, he knows what the heck he is doing.
I edited my other post.
Also, heres some pics for you to look at, this was the early stage of swirl development in nascar, cicra 1985. Check out the pistons.
I dunno how 'protected' those pics are, they were on the internet, and I didnt read anything that said they were property of anyone... even still, I am not leaving them on my server for long. Have a look see.
Ok max, I value your opinions and posts. Making sure that everybody is thinking and on their toes is a great thing. But pardon me for not agreeing with the scuffed surface idea. Also "theoldone.com" Seems to me from the last 2 times I've dug through the site to only be about a boosted 4 cylinder 4 valve application. Granted he's made a little power... But it isn't a naturally aspirated chevy small block. He has a write up about how he made "2X more hp" (forgot the number) By his piston/cylinder head modification. But not only did he port his heads, and do some combustion chamber work other than scuffing, but I believe the moral of his story was about "sharp edges" which I very much agree with, he's trying to deture detonation by removing sharp angles which become redhot as the engines running, in a boosted application this is twice as important.
Now for my theory:
The way I see this whole thing taking place is yes the runners need to be rough for turbulant air so that it STAYS atomized as its getting "pulled" through the runner by the down stroke of the piston, but after entering the valve the fuel/air charge lives in a pure vacuum environment where its being sucked in with no opertunity to contact the combustion chamber, then it gets forced upwards and explodes at TDC. Keep In mind that I dont suggest spending time at the bench trying to see your reflextion in the combustion chamber, I Just dont see a point especially with your engine rotating at very least 1,000 rpms and that piston moving faster than you can imagein for fuel "droplets" to take the time to sit and collect and for you to loose your atomization. I see the gains being by having a smooth combustion chamber, and smooth exhaust runner since there is no time for fuel to colllect, but there IS time (100,000 miles) for carbon to build up and cause this detonation that "theoldone" is avoiding with his sharp edge removal. As for the exhaust runner it isn't even a liquid/vapor any more its just an exhaust gas so being mirror finished is best.
< /rant >
Well, I guess its hopeless. Yea, the stuff is mostly 4 banger based now, but the concepts are the same. The guy started on Fords back in the 60's. He's made more V8 race engines than you could count. Did you read the soft head article at all? I'd suppose not. Those pics I actually got from that website, he built that engine.
Anyways, if you want to have a different opinion about it, thats up to you. Personally I'd take the advice given there, theres more documented backup for his expertise in the area of swirl than I can possibly reference to. Take a look around on the net for articles referring to stratified charges, theres a tech article written recently somewhere that I may have thats for a lean burn engine designed by Honda or Toyota or something, its very good reading and is entirely based on the concepts that the guy from theoldone was working on 30 years ago.
I am currently going down the list, I've made it through every one of his tech articles, I'm now reading his posted magazine articles, It is very much 4 cylinder related, and the combustion chambers dont resemble any chevy head i've seen, in fact the onlything close is the hemi. He seems to be very intelligent with tons of experience, I understand his combustion chamber/piston theory's very well and have agreed with them all along, however having a "rough" piston and "rough" combustion chamber still doesn't make sense to me and only seems after 20k miles it would be a bad thing.
Not to step on any toes , but i think the litte blocks locate the heads during the machining process.I read this somewhere.I have a set of L98 corvette heads that i tried to shape thw combustion chamber like the ones in Lingerfelters picture of his ported L98 heads.It looks like he tried to shape the locating block like a little swirl inducer.Just my .02 worth.
Hey guys,i haven't been on in awhile because i mainly use this site for the classifides,and since they have been down i haven't been viewing the site,but i do check the news on here from time to time.I do remember when we had a problem with a guy who tried to rob over a dozen of us through the classifieds on this site.His name was John Rogers,i am sure some of you remember this lowlife,his name was at the top of the classifieds for awhile.He got people from $15 to $500 or more,in the end over a dozen for a few grand.I was lucky and only got ripped for $15,it pissed me off because of the principle but i was more angry when people replied to my post in the classifieds about this punk and told me there losses.I immediately started to find out what i could do to help everyone out,and i did,i went through a website called www.iffcbi.gov and got results,his lawyer contacted me and others and we just had to email our proof or send copies of checks and money orders and the guy paid everyone back.I have bought alot of stuff on this site,and even dealt with Edmund Indre,i bought a torque converter,he did take forever to ship it and he started to act like he was going to play some $hit so i let him know i wasn't having it and what happened to John Rogers,so he knew i was the wrong guy to scam,i got my part and it was fine,just not all he said it was,it was supposed to be a 2500 stall tc but it seems stock,oh well,better then nothing.Guys like this are the bad guys and they cant win and wont win,there are alot of good people on the net but there are always a few bad apples on here who make you feel like everyone are scoundrels.I am only 22 but i have learned alot and met all types of people,good and bad,but this guy is due for something bad to happen,maybe someone will take his ride and give it a better home,this douche bag doesn't deserve a thirdgen.If the link is not the right one then i will do some digging and post it so you can take action,the internet fraud bureau is pretty good about getting results.This guy doesn't want to do jail time or pay fiens on top of restitution,so he will take the alternative and pay you back,if has 1/2 a brain.
__________________ 1986 IROC,paint code 51,1.6 rockers,SLP runners,BBK TB,NOS adjustable 75-125hp wet manifold tpi kit,Hypertech Stage 2 chip,160 thermostat,free mods,hi-flow cat, Flowmaster,shift kit,2 inch Moog drop,airoil and k&ns, lots more soon to come.
1985 Iroc,paint code 51,358 mod,200 shot,Viper Eater.
Hey Guys I forgot to tell you all, I have NRG AOL SN
NRGz28 He hasnt been online for about 4 months, and now he is......so GO HAVE FUN MY FELLOW FRIENDS!!!
Hey guys, I forgot to mention, I have his AOL SN. NRGz28. He hasnt been on in a few months, but now he is. So go have fun i fhe askes, tell him PopaPork sent you!! HAVE FUN
First off, I wanted to say I am sorry about your ebay experience. I hope that when you get your heads they aren't cracked or messed up.
I hang out over here a lot, mostly as an observer. But I truely love you guys and 3rd gen F-bodies. I hate people like that that give us bad names.
But, I also wanted to say, I am having problems with an item I bought via ebay right now. I have filed a complaint with Paypal and safeharbor and i found this info helpful to me as to what to expect, since I just filed my complaints last night.
Good luck!
__________________ ---------------
Stella
1987 IROC 305 TPI (Stella's daily)
1990 Formula 350 w/ T-Ram (Kevin's toy)
1970 Monte Carlo (Stella's toy)
1978 Trans Am W/Olds 455 (Kevin's Project)
1955 Chevrolet Stepside Truck (Stella's Project)
99% of the sellers on the net are great guys.It's the 1% that piss everybody off. If you get screwed get the name out so the rest of us can stay clear.
"address: 3428 Corona Del Mar Las Vegas, NV 89108 US"
um, anyone try that yet? scammers sooooo piss me off.. oh ***,
i'd fill his car up with cow poop..
well **** guy(s) i didn't know. i was just reading and saw this,
i thought the whois info from his site might help someone find him.
i didn't mean to do anything. since i just read it the other day it seems still pretty new to me. like "i just found out about this bad guy"...
i think we can all rest a little easier, it appears that he is moving on, becasue i sa his car up for auction on ebay about 2 weeks ago, because i remember bidding on it, because it was close (vegas) i live 2 hours away, and i thought it looked pretty sweet.
-=Caleb=-
__________________ STEREO INSTALLED
Pioneer Premier DEH-P740MP (swapped the deck and HVAC locations)
CDT CL-61a's
Resonant Engineering SE 12
Ported Fiberglass/MDF box
Nope..he's back at it. I am now out $628.69 after UPS supposedly lost the TPI parts and then the UPS supposedly lost the money order/refund. How ironic that both items addressed to me got lost. I'm gonna be on him like a junkyard dog now. It's on.
Originally posted by Raptor Pilot Nope..he's back at it. I am now out $628.69 after UPS supposedly lost the TPI parts and then the UPS supposedly lost the money order/refund. How ironic that both items addressed to me got lost. I'm gonna be on him like a junkyard dog now. It's on.
**** did that's beat get his ***!!!
__________________ ***89 GTA*** L98, P1-SC procharger, 24# SVO's, Cobalt boost/fuel pressure gauges, AEM wideband O2, ported plenum, Edelbrock TES headers and catback, SFC's, Wonderbar and some other goodies...
Its unfortunate that people like edmond have to exist. I'm truely sorry for anybody who has been hosed in an internet deal, and I'm disgusted with the people ripping people off. However I dont think this board needs any kind of excessive drama.
Moral of the story, dont deal with edmond. If you have, there are threads that have tons of information on how to get your money back or at least revenge. Lets keep the old non tech posts at the bottom and send this one back there as well.
, looks like crap
