klumb15

iTrader: (1)

I pulled the T5 out of my donor car today, and will be putting it in my car in about a week. But I ran into a few questions...

first off, the bellhousing on the T5 is molded to go around the starter, do T5 cars have special starters, or will my mini high torque starter I used for my automatic work fine?

what do I do with my speedo? does everything plug in? do i have to change any gears in there to adjust for my 3.73 gears? i would like to do as much preventive maintance as I can before it goes back in...

also, it came out of a 1990 pontiac formula WS6 with a 305 TBI engine and I'm wondering if it truely is a World Class T5. I know this link https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...g?d=1142348358 will tell me if its a WC or NWC, but they have it so zoomed in, I can't even tell where that is on the trans. Can somebody tell me where its located so I can verify what trans it is..

then my last question so far, will my automatic trans crossmember work with the T5, they look identical? also will my prothane trans mount I used with my auto work with the T5?

thanks in advance

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I'm not sure if your aftermarket ministarter will work or not, but I do know for a fact that the factory automatic and manual starters are different from each other. Crossmember and tranny mount should be the same. The location of the bearing cup in that other post is on the face of the transmission where it meets the bellhousing, just under the input shaft bearing retainer. In fact, it's partially covered by the bearing retainer. The world class trans has a flat ridge on the outer part of the bearing cup about 1/8" wide. Another way to tell what trans is if the i.d. tag is still on the trans. It's a metal tab that's attached to one of the tailshaft housing bolts. A WC trans for that year should be one of these two numbers: 1352-195 or 1352-196, with -196 being the TBI one. There was a post on here from Anesthes not long ago asking about the proper speedo gears for 3.73 ratio. It was posted on the transmission and drivetrain board about 3-4 weeks ago. Apparently, JMD is the board member to talk to about speedo gears for T5's. If you go to 5 speeds.com, and go to the T5 page, they have a trans tag decoder with probably every i.d. on it. I'm attempting the same swap on my car pretty soon, so I've been researching a lot of the same stuff recently. Good luck with the swap!

HorseflyDF

You can use your mini starter if it has 2 different mounting positions.
There will be 4 holes then your ok.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

yea my mini starter has 4 mounting holes, then it has the capability of rotating on the mounting flange...its a CVR mini starter...so it should work then?

i'll do some searching about the speedo gear, but hopefully somebody knowledgable in this area will chime in

HorseflyDF

Yeah thats a good starter shouldnt have any problems
You can also rotate it away from headers.

I dont know about speedo gears on a T5 I did some research just
in case it was way off when I did the swap, I have a cable speedo.

To change the drive gear you have to open up the T-5 case and also
remove the shifter assembly theres alot involved. Its a much harder job then an auto tranny where u can remove the tail shaft cover and get to it.

Then again the driven gear should be similiar to the auto just remove the
cable and mounting bracket and pull the driven gear out,
maybe u can get close enough just changing the driven gear.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

well i'm getting the trans built this winter, if there is alot involved, should I just put the trans in, and have the builder swap in the right speedo gear?

HorseflyDF

Sure let the rebuider do it.

Dont worry about it for now, unless you want to try to change
the driven gear to get closer if your speedo is way off..
The driven gear is very easy.. do a search for ratios and all.

You should be able to see the color of the drive gear when you pull
out the driven gear the color determines the amount of teeth

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

all I can say about the stock starters is that when I did my auto to T5 swap, the starter never came off of my car, as well as the other car that we put my auto into.

I don't remember if we swapped crossmembers since I think they were the same, but the torque arm mounts were different if I remember correctly.
Trans mounts were interchangeable.

Midniteson2

So a crossmember from an auto can be used for a manual? I just wanted to make sure, my crossmember underneath my t5 is twisted (previous owner bottomed out hard) and i just wanna make sure b for hittin the junkyards up.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I was hoping someone would chime in on the starter issue. I looked them up on a parts store website, and they have different part numbers listed for manual and automatic, but I don't really see what the difference would be anyways considering they both use a 153 tooth ring gear on the flywheel or flexplate. The only thing I can figure is maybe the nose cone is smaller on the manual ones? That's good news if they interchange since it's one more thing I won't have to spend more money on during my swap!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Right, SOME auto cars got a starter with a larger nose; but not all. And of course there's no guarantee that whatever you found in your car, is the same as what came in it, anyway. Especially not a high-maintenance part like the starter.

The large nose WILL NOT work in a T-5 car, but the small nose will work fine in either auto or stick cars.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I remember going through a similar issue with my 69 Camaro. I upgraded to the 11" clutch/flywheel and the "621" bellhousing from the 10.5" clutch/flywheel and "403" bellhousing. The correct starter had a smaller nose cone, and I found it under the application for the 396 big block engine at the parts store.

HorseflyDF

I think the issue is what size is your flexplate is 164 larger
or 153 smaller..
Either way your mini starter can bolt up for both 153 and 164 pattern.

The mini starters most of them dont have a cone anway mine didnt.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

yea. i have no nose cone on mine...so I don't see why it won't bolt up, but i'll find out this weekend...

but i power washed the tranny last night, I got some numbers but before I check them I have a quick question about I.D.ing it...I see the top of tthat circular thing that is supposed to have timken imprinted on it. but all i can see is USA stamped becaues thats all thats exposed....do the NWC have nothing stamped on them or what? I'm hoping the WC have Timken USA stamped around them...can anybody verify this?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

That sounds like a WC tranny to me. The bearing cup on a NWC doesn't really have a flat area on the edge of the bearing cup for anything to be stamped on it.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

okay, is there a way or place to go on the internet to check numbers to verify it? i went to 5speeds.com and they want the tag ID #, well i have that tag, but its rusted so bad that the stamping is gone.. I do have the barcode sticker with numbers on along with a few others that I found on the trans...will any of these work with anything?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

The numbers on the barcode sticker should help you i.d. it on 5 speeds.com. The numbers on the trans itself are just the casting #'s for the case, tailhousing, ect. The number you need should go like this: 1352-XXX.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

well about all the further I got was identifying the trans, and getting everything ready to do the swap. I've been super busy lately, but I have to get this car done. and by the way, it is a WC, and thanks to everybody that helped me find that out..

next thing on the list, I finaly got my car home from storage last night, so I'm going to work on it a little bit every night and see what I can get done. Everything as far as bolting on the flywheel, clutch, and trans is kind of on the back burning right now, I want to just get the pedals in and working properly, and getting the master cylinder mounted in the engine bay. I looked under the dash by the pedals, and it seems totally different than the formula I ripped everything out of. my brake pedal is on a rod, then has one of those little retainers on it hold it from coming off, do I just take the retainer off, and then mount the other 2 pedals to that or what? was I supposed to get the whole bracket that was mounted to the firewall in the donor car? we unbolted that bracket trying to get it off, but i think it was tack welded to the firewall as well. so we just took the pedals. I guess I'm just kind of lost at this stage, need some ...i don't even really know where to start...

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

You need the whole pedal assembly from the manual setup since it's different from the automatic. It's not welded to the firewall. There's four nylon insert nuts that hold it to the firewall. They're the same nuts that hold your brake booster on the firewall. There's also a 13mm bolt that goes up into the metal part of the dash assembly. There's usually an outline of the insulation you knock out on your firewall padding for the clutch master cylinder and the two bolts that retain it. Your 5 speed pedals should have two support brackets that attach to the clutch master u-bolt. Since it's not too reliable to use the firewall padding as a reference, you can bolt in the manual pedals and then swing the two support rods into position against the firewall. This should give you the exact location for the u-bolt holes. Once you have those drilled, the big hole for the clutch master cylinder just needs to go right in between the two small holes. You can also use the clutch master cylinder gasket to locate the big hole by hanging it on the u-bolt. This should give you exact location and hole size for the big one. Yes you need to disconnect the brake pedal by removing the retainer clip, then you just hook it back up to the new pedals. You have to undo the four nuts that hold the pedal assembly in place. Once you do that, you can carefully move the brake booster/master cylinder assembly away from the firewall, which will give you more room to install the clutch hydraulics. You don't have to undo any brake lines as long as you're careful moving it out of the way. I'm getting ready to do the same thing to my camaro, so I've spent quite a bit of time pondering the best and most accurate way to drill the holes and get the pedals mounted, and what I suggested is the best way I can come up with. Hopefully someone else can chime in if they've come up with a better way to go about it. Good luck!

HorseflyDF

I didnt know the clutch master cylinder used a gasket.. that would of made it
much easier to drill and probably very accurate..