Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Today I finally pulled the pan on the TAs tranny. I got the news I was hoping not to get...but expected. My luck is stadily on the bad side with 700s. After I got the pan dropped I noticed schratnil floating in i. I fished it all out and determined its parts of the 2-4 Band. I was inspecting the VBody and noticed some more protruding out of the opening above the shift linkage to the manual valve. Pulled out the peice and it was about 7inches long. Part of the band. Heres a few pics. I can still see the metal part up in there. If a pro tranny builder is viewing this, do you think that the drum is damaged? Metal to metal contact. Also the friction side appears to be a brown color and the bonded side is black. Does this ring a bell for a particular type or make of band? As in el-genero, trans star, trans go, raybestos, etc. Is this something I could do myself? Pull the pump, pull the v.body to release the holding pin for the band, pull the servo assembly.......anything else? I appreciate any help. Wish I could afford a built one...but moneys tight right now, so if I cant do it myself, I guess its parked for now =(. Im in Tallahassee Fl and Superior Tans Parts is here, but IDK if they sell to the public or not. Also Fairbanks used to be here, but they only do R&D now I heard. I appreciate any help and input

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

OOps I forgot the pics.....
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Close up of band parts

TransAM Joe

iTrader: (6)

Since it's going to have to come out of the car you have to determine what caused this failure, not just fix the broken band, and yes if the band was rubbing metal on the reverse input drum it has scored the surface and is not usable since the drum needs to be dead nuts flat. A used drum should run about $45 so not to bad, but I would tear down everything and find all the broken/failed parts and just put in a master rebuild kit (new gaskets, seals, clutches, etc) can be had for about $150 and a weekends worth of time. If this cannot be done on your budget I would park it until you can spend the money, your transmission will thank you.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Could a mis adjusted or ill TV cause this? I never used 4th since I rarely drive it long distances. Used to leave it in D. But even when it was new, I noticed that when it went into 4th it would drop RPM, but slip on load input. I always assumed it was since I never hooked up the TCC plug and it was the TCC not locking up. I know more now and have since read that the TCC on these later trannys doesnt cause any harm unhooked. Ive determined its a '91 case, has aux VB, a single-pin pressure switch on the 4th port on the VB and no other pressure switches. Though it has the wiring with 2 more single plugs. But I tried 4th only a few times. Since it wasnt working I just used D...no OD ever selected after that. Then a year ago it started not shifting into 2nd. I could actually get it into 3rd, but knew that it wasnt good 4 it. I started f-ing with the TV cable adjustment (I have a stock replacement TV cable, a Jegs throttle bracket with additional TV cable bracket, a BG Demon carb on a Perf RPM and my old Holley throttle bracket for TV setup on the BG. Notched it to clear the shaft, but otherwise fits the same as the Holley I had did. The only other part of the TV is the Jegs bracket TV bracket. Its has a range of starting points for it. But B4 it seemed OK.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

man i had the 700 blues awhile ago, burned up the band, due to my lazyness, had a leak and let it get to low, but anyway i asked all the "old wise men" , and gear heads around here who to take it to, there is a guy here who has his own kit, gurentees it not to burn up real strong good work, he built mine for drag strip a custom build with best bands you can get, it will squall the tires going into second, me and him feal what when i put the 3.23 in the back it will bark going into 3rd, its close to doing it now, real strong positive shifts, has a small (2200-2400) stall vette servo, custom valve body and other mods, best part is it was priced good, plus he offers more than just a tail light warr, try to find you someone good like that over there, i was going to do mine myself, glad i didnt now, BTW im in the p'cola fla mobile al area

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

I see. I wanted to be able to hold out 1st and 2nd if I wanted to at the track...(not going to just hold it in gears while cruising)...but I could never hold 1st. Was told it can be done and it cant be done.....???Hmm. The TransGo kit says the 700 will do it. I never ran it low on fluid...its never leaked. But the TV setting initially from the tranny shop is suspect. But I cant go back in time to see if it was, since its been changed since then. I put it in initially when I did the 355. I took it to them to do the final settings. I had to take it in a few times after that since it wasnt right. They had to pull it and redo it once themselves. I made them do it since it wasnt right and I was tired of pulling it on my back. The guys son was the puller/installer and stripped one of the crossmember bolts/nuts. So they had to helicoil that. Just one headache after another with them. I dealt with the 4th gear issue since I didnt want to deal with them anymore. But they closed shop (I wonder why?!!!!) before my 2nd gear issue. I want it to shift positively and right but not hard on normal light driving/cruisinc conditions. I want it to progressively get stiffer and hard on WOT. I understaand how the auto works and I know this can be accomplished. Had I experience rebuilding a tranny, I would do it myself for cheaper with the actual replacement updated performance peices. Here they seem to look for ways to just cheap out and mod a stock part to 'acheive' the result of the proper made part. Doesnt work the same though. Blocking accumilators, removing springs, just getto crap like that. Its not designed for that. So why does the 'tranny professional' do these half-a$$ed things? I wouldve paid extra and bought the proper parts myself if needed.....just so that it was done right the 1st time. I know there are people out there who wouldnt....I deal with them in the CarAudio area/issues. But I give the benefit of the doubt and teach them the proper way and the way I would do it. Then they can make their decision on weather or not they will pay extra for quality. I just want the same respect.

TransAM Joe

iTrader: (6)

if going to a modded transmission Pro Built is the only way to go.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

I may be mis understanding you but you wanting to hold gears you say, get a manual valve body, its hardcore and it like having a stick shift minus the clutch if you stop at a red light and forget to pull it back into 1 you will burn it up tring to take off in first, but it will hold any gear till you shift or the motor blows (LOL).........i went with the automatic valve body and the console mega shifter from B&M, its a rachet shifter so thats always fun ..... but i will say, going high perf. your best bet is to go to a shop that specializes is HP build ups like i did, i just happened to find a guy who did HP tranny build up and his bread and butter tranny is the 700r4

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Im not looking to rag on it. I want a progressively firm shifting auto with lockup TC. I want to have WOT shifts at a reasonable 6000-6200RPM under normal circumstances in D/OD which I can adjust with the Governor Kit. But if needed, I want to hold it in 1st and 2nd longer on WOT if Im at the track and playing with times going deeper in the RPM range. My 6AL is at 6500RPM limit. Had friends with autos and MVBs. They suck at reliability. And the racing around and holding gears isnt what my car is used for. Its fast, but not abused.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Well. I havent gotten a chance to fix it yet, but did find out some things. To do my TCC Lockup control I am going to need a different PressureSwitch. The only one they put in there is on 4th Gear port, but is silver/white and seems to test to be a NormallyClosed. Actuates open circuit when I apply air pressure in the end of it. Which would unlock the TCC Solenoid by releasing the ground when its in 4th. As opposed to engageing it in 4th. Thanks ATS! Glad I never tried to hook it up B4 now. But nevertheless an easy fix for me while its apart. I blew air into the servo exhaust hole on the pan lip and the servo assembly was working fine. I could see the lower part of the Band through the area in front of the valvebody moving back and forth. I had tried to remove the servo cover days before and was unsuccessful without cutting the o-ring. It leaked anyway. So I just went ahead and removed the servo entirely for inspection. I did find a CorvetteServo in there for 2nd. #8642093 for the Piston and # 8642115 fot the Housing. The 4th is #8642482. Any help on confirmation would be appreciated =)

duckmanquacker

if you had the connector disconected on the 86 transmission that was part of your failure, also it wouldnt have helped either because of the wrong pressure switch. whoever rebuilt your trans last time owes you for that dammage. your best bet since you need to rebuild that unit is go to junkyard and get a 700 from an 87-up model car or truck and install your cars governor.you might even add those corvette servos as well

performabuilt

From the looks of things it does not look like you actually burned the band up but more like the band may have been bonded poorly and the lining separated from the band , I have seen this a few times, The drum will be trashed and you will need to clean out the entire unit at the very least

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Duckman : This is actually a 1991 tranny. The 86 went buh bye a long time ago =) In fact, after one issue with the output shaft getting twisted and a few other internal hard parts abandoning ship, the case got cracked. The 2nd case Im not sure what year it was...never found out. It lasted for a while but then shifting started to act up at the time I was doing the 355 build and planning a new tranny build anyway. This is what I got. I just decoded most of the ID (except the KW part). ID # 1 KW M 137 B is what it is exactly and my source tells me its a 91. I guess it is. Has Aux VB. Pressure switch seems wrong to me. Doesnt the 4th port give pressure to the switch when the tranny is in 4th??? So then the press switch should engage continuity when pressure is applied. Or at least that is what I want it to do the way I am hooking it up. Mine had continuity without pressure and releases (opens) when pressure is applied. It has a white indicator on it. Performabuilt : I had a local tranny guy say the same thing about a particular brand of Band. Do you know which one? That makes me feel better actually. With what I can see throught the front hole to the drum/band area, the drum doesnt look scored up. But I will be pulling the pump this week and will be able to assess it from there. Another question is about the Servo Pin adjustment. I know there isnt really an adjustment, but Ive seen info about there needing to be certain band to drum clearance at rest. And the fix is a longer madepin and grinding the tip down to gain clearance. What clearance am I looking for? Is there any particular method of seating the servo assembly in? If its more than the recommended clearance, do I need a new pin and if its less do I just grind little by little? Help is much appreciated guys! I am very encouraged by the helpful responses, advice and input. I think the 91 tranny is a good start.

duckmanquacker

sorry about that must've missed it while reading.
your trans ID # specs out to this.

1 last digit of model year(1991)

KW model type TH350/TH700

M trans type (700R4)

137 day of year built(1-365)

B shift built(A&B= first shift, C&H= second shift)

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

THX. I had info for everything but the KW. Seems redundant though to the M. Going to get some parts at Superior tomorrow hopefully. I like their approach on things, the guy I talked to there was honest it seemed and alot of places like Performabuilt and PATC use their stuff. Im unsure about upgrading to the SuperServo 2nd in place of the Vette, and also the 4th as well. Thoughts? Also the Superior 'Kit' 700R4-HP comes with a vette servo and a .471 TV Boost Valve. If i did the Super 2nd and 4th Servos, should I do a .500 TV BV? Also this is 2X's Ive heard of a Band that comes apart. What brand is it? Superior told me of their std width Hi-Po band. Ive heard that the wider one requires a drum or resurfacing the existing one for it. Any thoughts?

duckmanquacker

I recomend staying away from the wider bands. their holding power is actually less than std width. the superior servos are as hard of a shift as you can get without going into bangshift teritory which breaks parts. if you want the fastest/firmest shifts posible then the superservo's are for you but if you want real good firm shifts the corvettes are just fine. if you do the supers then get that .500 valve its good insurance.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

I want the progressively firmer shifts, I want to feel it shift at low and regular throttle but not violently and not nessesary to chirp the tires either. But when I am on it or WOT, I want it to bark em and firm up since the HP/TQ imput is higher. You know..progressive =) Ill stick with the std width band now. Maybe do their 700HP kit and sell my old vette servo piston/housing. Can do the billet 2nd and 4th later on anyway. THX for the help and replies. More is welcome too =)!!

Shagwell

I run a lot of superior's products in my 700's. They make great stuff. Their vb kit will get you what you want in shift firmness, precise at all rpm, firmer the harder you step on it. Their vb/shift kit comes with the vette servo spring, but no servo. The billet intermediate servo is a great improvement for a performance app, I use the vette for stock rebuilds, I won't use the standard servo at all. For a car, I'm still 50/50 as to whether or not the 4th gear billet is neccessary, unless you plan on doing hard throttle 4th gear assualts, which i don't reccomend at all(it's OD, not meant as a performance ratio). They're nice, but only neccessary in towing/4wd apps IMO.
I didn't even realize they had their own clutches/band. Personally, I run alto clutches/bands.
As for "adjusting" the servo pin, they make 3 different length pins, one of which will suite your assembly.
If you're gonna be in there, and since it looks like the previous build used elcheapo parts, I'd probably go through the whole thing. Keep everything clean and set all specs correctly. PICK UP AN ATSG MANUAL! They're worth their weight in gold. - You might be able to get a shop to instal the apply piston seals for you, thus saving you the $ of the specialty tooling.

PATC's website has some great into on the faults and proper improvements for a 700r4.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Shagwell - Thanks for the input. Actually they dont make the Band, they just had one in particular they sell and recomended. It was a Raybestos Pro Series RPS 77700. Clutches I think they sell Raybestos as well. I picked up a gasket/seals kit from them Its Precision International # KP33900A. I needed the pump gaskets, valve body and servo seals. The servo seals I wanted to put with my old vette servo to sell maybe. So it was just as cheap to buy the entire kit. Has alot of parts in it including a screen filter and check *****. I picked up the 700R4-HP kit from them as well. It does have the Vette servo (piston and housing) but you got to use your old front plate where the inside 'cushion' spring is. The HP kit has a new cushion spring anyway. The HP kit also has the .471 TV Boost Valve parts and numerous colored springs for various valve body locations. I also got to go back and pick up a new flywheel cover which they also stock. Mine was on the loosing end of an older header flange tangle at one time in its life. Pretty much hanging on by a couple fastners. Im also going to get the 4th Pressure Switch I need as well. Im pretty Stoked!!! Its going to be next week B4 I can get the tranny out of the car. But that will give me time to research more and more. I cant believe Tallahassee actually has a cool, tranny mans dream place here like this. Kenner has been real helpful and took the time to listen to me. Mucho Props! I spent $135 bux and will end up spending more. Moneys tight, so I had to dig into my saved funds for the 12-bolt diff I was planning on one day. Oh, well. The 10-bolts still hanging in there and a 12-bolt does no good anyway unless the trannys functional..right! hehehe Thx for the added insight. PATC is one of the sources Ive learned from. As far as the pin, do you remember the band to drum distance. I had found it somewhere B4. Ive heard of getting longer ones and grinding off the tip to get the clearance.

Jim Berry

Fragged mine also. Pics of the shrapnel in the pan. Just went to the bone yard and dropped another one.

Jim.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Dang Jim!! Do ya know what you broke? What year model is the trans..still the orig? Update on my situation....sort of. I picked up a few more items today. I went ahead and got the better Low/Reverse or Intermediate/Reverse Boost Valve kit from Superior. Also picked up the new flywheel cover, the proper PressureSwitch for my TCC Lockup Kit I am making work, and a ATSG Manual. Spent another $50 on that stuff. Plus a new filter and some stainless steel hardware at Lowes for the dust cover. Turns out it had screws with it though. So $135 + $50 is $185. Plus the filter and fluid, Im looking at just over $200 to do it myself. Im contenplating the converter too. Ill still be better than the rebuild quote. Plus Ill learn how to do it. If it turns out to need more, then Ill get the bushing kit and a couple specialty tools that are needed. The tools and book I guess I wouldnt count in the rebuild cost, since they can be easily re-sold or I could always use them down the road. The right tool is golden.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Pics of the parts. Seals and Gasket kit.........Band and Superior 700-R4 HP kit........FlywheelCover and PressureSwitch and Lo-Rev Boost Valve kit. I also got a ATSG book
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Shagwell

looks good! - Yeah, the vb kit I get from patc has a slightly different p#, which is probably the difference between getting the vette servo or not. - I would deffinitely use a different converter. It's had trash in it, you don't want that trash to cost you your new trans. PATC has some good converters for low $. They mostly use Midwest on the low-end ones, but I'm not sure if you can buy from them direct. I've had great luck with the performance and durability of the 450hp rated "street raptor" converter. I'm about to try their 350hp rated converter for a build I'm doing for a buddy's mild street rod.

Raybestos makes good clutches, I never had any issues with them, but I think the alto's grab a little better even after a lot of mileage and abuse. I agree w/ patc on the thick kolene steals, I've never had any problems when using them. Most properly functioning street/strip trans don't see enough heat to really see any difference between an 8 stack with thick steals vs a 9 or 10 with thins, but HD/towing/autocross/etc the thick steals hold up better. Since I've noticed no difference in holding power with either set-up, I just use the thick steals in all builds.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Right now Im just going to try to fix the band problem. The rest is bonuses for peace of mind and upgrading the possible poor definition of what I wanted by the previous builder. I got the Raybestos band ProSeries RPS 77700. Ive seen the new Z-Pack clutches they got. Heard no reviews yet on them. As far as the counds, I hear more isnt nessesarily better. Since the thinner steels dont allow heat disipation. Id probably do Kolene, and Alto sets from what Ive read.But we shall see how far this build goes =) I need a good converter for inexpensive price. Money is so tight right now the Presidents are crying! I got a BeCool radiator without a tranny cooler. I soley use a B&M Supercooler that Ive had for many years. Since changing to this radiator without auto provisions, I havent had any cooling issues in the trans. I have a gague to keep an eye on it FYI. But I also dont do a long-travel time with this car. Just a weekend cruiser with some fun/track time. I need to get on the ball about what stall I need. Any advice? I can give you the entire 411 including gear, weight and cam specs if you need.

duckmanquacker

you can get a clean converter from autozone which is considered a stock replacement. might help until you can afford a good one.

84Zjustme

I just burnt mine up last week after I powder coated the TV cable bracket and forgot to readjust the cable afterwords. (kicking myself)

The sleeve was all the way in towards the bracket for about 20 highway miles before I knoticed it slipping. I pulled over and adjusted it (wrong). I held the button in while setting WOT(I could not remember the correct way to set the TV cable). Sleeve all the way out now. Using the lockup switch and light on the gas I made the round trip of about 1200 miles.

When I got home I looked it up and set the TV cable the right way.

I had to travel for work and could not afford not to go.

The lock up helped it not to slip as bad getting up to speed. At 60 mph with a 3.23 rear gear in OD locked up is 2500 rpm with 26" tires. I should be going faster at this rpm so I know it is slipping pretty good.

It seems to shift alot better at normal throttle, but shifts at over 6200rpm under heavy throttle!!

I ordered the dvd and manuals for early and late 700r4's from Pro Built on friday. I have a 1984 and was thinking of getting a newer trans from the junk yard to rebuild. (Any thoughts??) Should I just rebuild the 84 and update the parts? Trying to save money but still have a solid trans.

Hopefully this will help others who read it not to do what I did.

Any chance you can post pics of the rebuild?? I looked for pics to get an idea of what it will take and what and where you need the special tools for. This might help others who are thinking of doing a rebuild to get an idea of what it will take.

I have never rebuilt one but I am very mechanically inclined. I started working on cars when I was about 15 and 99% of the time do all my own work.

I let my (then) 7yr old son help me rebuild the 350 that is in it now and for the last 7.5 years it has ran great. On the trip I stopped every 200 miles ( 12 gal tank) and only put 9 to 10 gal in it. It has a 750 carb on it.

Any chance the part stores have these tools in the loan a tool program??

Well I will have to wait a few weeks to rebuild mine and will only have to travel about an hr to the airport for my next few trips. Hope it holds up until I can get the stuff to rebuild it.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

I finally got around to getting it going......pulling it out. Friday I got most of it ready to pull but ran out of daylight. The mosquitoes started to feast, so I was done donating my blood. At Halftime to day during the UF game, I went out and yanked it on out. It was a pig since the last builder never bothered to take enough pride and clean it up outside. I found the rest of the IDs and the orig sticker label on the bellhousing top. I didnt really trust that my converter was what we had discussed. After getting a few numbers off of it finally I was able to decode one part. Does DCLF ring a bell?? It was written on it in White. And along was also a Yellow stamed numder of 031202. Ill show a pic below of it. If you look closely, you will see that B4 the gray paint was applied, the DCLF was written in Yellow. The D you can sortof make out in the pic under the gray paint just in front of the White D marking. Decoded, D=700R4 84 1/2 -up C=2075 Stall approx L=Carbon Clutch F=3 Square Lugs. I know Stall is relative to TQ input. So, I note some list it (DCLF) as 1875-2500. Any input on that. Could I use my Gearing, Weight and CamSpecs to guestimate what the stall is behind my car? Best next thing in town is a $195 Superior StreetStall Converter 2100RPM approx. I would like to put a new one in it reguardless. Think I should order one. Any recommendations on stall? Street car with little road time, and some track time. .488/.510L @1.5 but I have 1.6s, 234/244 D @.050 and 308/318D @.006, 112*LS and 107* Centerline. I have approx 3200lbs. It has a 3.42 Gearing. From what I read, a 32-3500stall and a 3.73 is optimum. I want to keep the 3.42s for now and dont want too high a stall. Just about enough to have fun and get good times at the track, but not so much that cruises are un-fun. Any tranny builders here recognize the Converter in the picture as a particular brand? It has that ID # which may be a stocking number. THX a BUNCH!!

duckmanquacker

your 32-3500 + 3.73's sound optimum for a strip car. I think you will be pleasently surprised with how a 22-2500 stall works with your 3.42's. your cam specs sound like the performer RPM series, that cam comes in at 1800 and stops pulling at 6400.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Thats exactly which cam it is. More lopey than I really needed, but I got it cheap and kinda built the motor around it. Im more concerned about driving around town moreso than strip. Since the nearest decent 1320 is 2 hours away. I want to also AutoX it one day at a parking lot event...nothing big. I like the 3.42s and will keep them for now. So my biggest thing it whats best for a mostly street, 3.42, 25.7OD tire (275-40-17) and that cam??? Any converter will stall higher than advertised given more torque at that rated RPM..right? Thats the way Ive seen it explained B4 anyways. So, as I was told the DCLF...which is more 1900 Stall I am now told by a converter shop....is really estimated 2200 give or take with my setup. So an adverttised 2100 would be estimated 2500-ish. Sound right?

darkride86T/A

I agree with Duckman about your set-up. You will be happy with a
converter that stalls around 23-2500 RPM.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Sounds good. I think Ill go that route 4 now on the converter. I did make progress, found out some interesting stuff and got the VB parts all in from the Superior kit. On to the drum and band, pump stuff and other odds. I got a bunch of pics to share too. I got questions as well. Its 3AM right now tho and Im too tired to write/post/upload =) Tomorrow tho I will. Im going to get a new seperator plate, converter, maybe a new Reverse Input Drum (mines a little scored from the band issue....you should see the band! Raybestos # RB 25851 the best I can tell. But there is only 5" or so of a single strip of material left on it...and its coming loose. The rest parted company in strips and peices. Seemed to just un-bond.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Heres some pics. Found out that that Raybestos band part # is a Re-Lined part. The HPS77700 I got is suposed to be a New Lined part. I picked up a 700-P TransGo seperator plate. Mine had seen better days. I got the Presicion Converter (GOPNH.com) its not the company that makes the Vigilante. its a different one. Superior uses them and raved about their quality. Looks good. Heres some pics. 1st is the bands New and Old. 2nd is my VBody for reference B4 I took it off. 3rd is Sep Plate Old B4 I cleaned it. But it didnt clean good enough to satisfy me.

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Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Today, I got the seperator plate ready. Holes enlarged per 700-HP kit specs, plug in one unused port per TransGo specs. The VBody was finished last night. The parts from the 700-HP kit sucessfully installed. The las builder had left the TV Modulator Up spring out. I referenced an old B&M ShitKit instruction manual and they leave it out too. I asked about it with a builder and the response was it would be OK. Just shifts are delayed. Any opinions and input welcome on that please. I had no luck locating a replacement spring. Today I also cleaned the case side of the VB, holes to the pump (pump is off) and other stuff. I put a new screen in the pump, a new set of seals (blue scarfs) to the hub, blew any accessible oriface out and cleaned it up, and I installed the new TV Boost Spring (700-HP kit), Lo-Rev Boost Valves (bought seperately), and TV Main .471 Boost Valves (700-HP kit). Pump is done. I learned that the pump I have had 10vanes and most likely double primer springs. The HP kit came with the 2nd primer spring. But I dont have the band strap to align the pump body if I took it apart. Im going on faith on this one. I have to turn the Reverse drum a bit from the band scoring it. Its not bad. Ill get pics. But I pulled out the clutch pack. The Frictions look good but no telling what brand. Every other steel had a 'V' stamped on it. Not sure what the diff is in those. I also got the Input Shaft and Drum assembly out today, I started on it but didnt have time to finish anything but pulling the 1st set of clutches out. Those are the 3-4 from what I understand. Input welcome here too if I am incorrect. These started out good but got worse father back. I have black burns and the last one has the edges chipping a little. Ill post pics later on. The steels say ALTO. Is that good? I have heard good things on their frictions. But heard Kolene steels are best. The Load Release Springs were MIA. Good to know. I will probably go ahead and replace the clutch packs now. THX on any inpur and help =) 1st time rebuilder here needs any and good advice =)

performabuilt

Even though you didnt buy from us if you have any questions during you build feel free to give me a call 570-578-5686

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Here are some pics. 1st is the Rev Drum scoring. Next is the 3-4 pack...I think by my manuals. Its the 1st pack in the backside of the input drum/shaft assembly after you remove it. The Low and then Overrun is next I believe in that assembly. The pack is a 6-set. Good? I am unsure if my steels are the thick or thinner ones. I see there is both with 6 availible. They look thick 2 me. Is that good? I guess I need to determine which backing plate I have too. Steels say Alto. In the Reverse pack, I have a Bellvile Plate which is correct as I understand for the model/year, a #7 selective plate and the steels have a 'v' stamp on every other one. Input is well recieved. THX Performabuit! I dont know your name, but will call if I get stuck =)

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Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

I got the Input Drum completly apart today when I had time. The other clutches look not burnt but maybe worn. One I did find a Raybestos name and a part # of 505070. It was in the Forward set. It looks to have 2 Waived plates...strange? I am going to get a Friction Kit, maybe a 3-4 Upgrade with steels (7 or 8...any opinions?) mine are 6 plates and maybe new bearing kit. Anyone have Prices and Opinions Please? THX

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Case is competly apart. I had some pics request of the mix, so here it goes.
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84Zjustme

THX for the pics. I'm sure these will become a good refrence for the tech board. It will also give us a look at what it takes to rebuild one.

It's nice to refrence back to in the future. I have a folder on my pc with all the things I have done to my cars. Took a bunch of pics so I could just pull them up instead of running out to jack up the car or waiting until morning to have daylight to see. Easier to look at from the recliner on the dual 32" monitors. LOL.

Thx again and keep up the good work.

performabuilt

I have seen the two waved plates used in the 700r4 rguardless of how the were originally done only use one of them on reinstalation and place the waved plate against the forwad apply plate then a steel on top and then a friction , Do not run the frictions on a waved plate.
You will need to replace the reverse input drum where its scarred. Install a beast sun shell and clean that valve body very well. I like to use a presure washer with mild dish soap then air blow it , Then place in and oven at 275 to 300 degrees for 30 minutes , Remove then blow again check all valves for movement while hot then let cool a bit , Oil and blow again then check the valve for motion cool paying particualr attention the the throttle valve and the 3-4 shift valve. We have excellent results with the raybestos Z pack in our units.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

Was the 2 waived plates done my the factory or by the last builder?? My VB is immaculate and all seems to be working right. I removed every valve assembly in order, cleaned the bare VB and parts then re-assembled. I used the HP kit parts where applicable. All seems good, but I will recheck again as I do =) Been informed on the Beast. Heard numerous companis make them. GM, SPX and others. Any ones that are bogus??? Heres a pic(s) of my Forward pack for reference. I will take heed your advise. THX again!!

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performabuilt

Yes the two plates were added by someone during a built at some time, As for the beast there is only one beast its patented by the company that makes it. I would have to look at a box to see who it is as I can remember right now we use them but I dont look at the box often.
Looking at the forward clutch pack from bottom to top of picture it should be thick apply plate then wave, then flat steet then clutch /steel finishig with a clutch and the thick backing plate. They may have added the wave to take up clearane if they used the wrong steels in the set. Those are not factory forward frictions. The steels are available in several thicknesses. If you have to though you can use two flat steels to take up clearance but in any case do not put a friction against the wave.
On the 3-4 set I would replace the thin plate with tangs and the plate that sets on it with the 4l60e one peice type as it helps avoid bowing and applies more even presure to the set.Note the burn to the outside of the originals , Now if you get the ZPACK it comes with its own plates.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

• Ok I am going to split this up so I dont get confused myself. Please bare with me.
• 3-4 Pack
• In reading opinions and whats availible, I am down to a 8 pack set is my best option. Borg-Warner HiEnergy seens to be popularly reliable and next is Alto Reds. I found a post with a specific way of setting them up. Posted below, let me know what you think.
• Borg-Warner Hi-Energy 8pack (street)
• Needed : (1)5-tang Holder Plate, (2) .128 Pressure Plates, (8) .080 BW HEs Frictions, (4) .078 Steels {use these toward the bottom of the pack}, (4) .060 Steels {use these toward the top of the pack}, (1) .062 Snap Ring. Clearance will be set within .040-.060
• Said to toss the stepped apply plate??? Which is this and why?
• If additional clearance is needed, you can leave out a .060 steel (making 8 Frictions and 7 Steels in the set now) and ride a friction on the Apply Plate.
• Is this OK and are they referring to a bottom ot top apply plate?
• Installed looks like this:
• Holder 5-Tnag
• .128 Plate
• Alternating Friction/Steels 4 and 4 / or/ 4 and 3
• .128 Plate
• .062 Snap Ring
• Please reference to my picture what I already have and what part it is. I have the manuals, but a picture with the item pointed out is always reassuring. I will indeed measure my plates 1st.
• And one more query, You siad to replace the 5-Tang and apply with a 4L60E 1-pc plate. Is that replacing the 1st steel that a friction will ride on or the waived plate?
• THX again!!
• One additional note. My top plate on the 3-4 pack is a '7' and according to ATSG is .190". Its referred to as a selective plate

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

• Ok now let me see how I understand the FWD pack
• Forward :
• Apply Plate (any specific thickness or flat vs. stepped?)
• Waived Plate (single right?)
• Steel (mate this against the waived plate?)(my pic is incorrect then right?)
• Friction
• Steel
• Friction
• (I should have 5 and 5 Frict and Steels right?)
• (In my pic there are 5 and 4???)
• Last will be a Friction and then......
• Backing Plate (any specifics on thickness for clearance?)
• Snap Ring
• Thx for the help

Shagwell

too much reading for me to fully catch up. - from the pics, your 3-4 was a 6 pack with thick steals. The Alto thick steals are comon in many decent standard rebuild kits(I've used ATP for stocker rebuild and most have been raybestos clutches and alto steals. - Performabuilt is correct IMO on the info he's giving you. - The beast shell is made by Transtar. Gm's upgraded shell is used in 93+ 4L60(E) apps, and is known to be balanced better.

84Zjustme

Sounds like you are well into the rebuild. I will be refrencing this post for my rebuild. I found a newer case to rebuild for $150 today. now I need to make some space in the garage and get the time to do it. I will take my time to do it right like you are doing. I don't want to rush and overlook something my first time around. I like to do things myself for the knowledge and piece of mind. I'm just glad we have a lot of great people here on this forum.

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

84 Just make sure its a complete case with all the internals. Ive been reading and studying a few things. There are some parts like a piston and apply ring that are 'matched'. Mostly by model and there are Part #s to coordinate them. If I bought a case and a bucket of parts Id be weary of what I got. ATSG does a pretty good job of referncing those part #s and coordination of the associated peices. I may start a new post on the rebuild part. That way I can order/organize it from bottom to top. I didnt know until now how far I was going into it. I did a 'dry run' on putting some of the componets back together. One reason was to verify my order the way Ive laid everything thus far and the other was to figure out which 'special' tools I need or what I need to come up with. Tomorrow or Tuesday I will be buying some stuff....pending they are availible. I may have to order some stuff off the net which is going to slow progress down a little. Shagwell I done doubt Performabuilt or your opinion either. Both of you have been helpful. And on some other areas of TGO as well as here. It is most appreciated THX =) In my last 2 post though, I have a few inquiries and confirmations I would need answered if anyone can. Im sure PerformaBuilt will next time he logs on. hes been a godsend thus far. But anyones input and opinion is welcome of course. If there is a part number to the BW HE 8 clutch pack that comes with all I need, ready to go, that would be nice. Or if there is another brand that has it all inclusive, Im accepting those part numbers as well. Im prepared to measure the pack and do what is nessesary to make it right the 1st time. I dont intend to half-a$$ is and pull it back out because I did. If I were a Trans Technician, I would much rather prefer the benchtop rebuild over the pull and install. PITA!! especially on concrete and cardboard!! hehehe Hope to talk soon, THX so much!!!

84Zjustme

I'm going out of town for work again in the morning. When I get back on thursday / Friday I will pressure wash the case and pull the pan to make sure everything is there. It is a complete trans as far as I know. I was just refrencing to it as being a newer updated trans. That would suck if parts were missing on the inside. LOL!

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

We can decode it after you clean and find the ID. Right side, rear pan lip side is where it should be. $150 is a good start IMO =)

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

I stopped by Superior today and picked up a few items. I took heed to your advece Performabuilt (may have been the other thread) and bought a new ReverseInput Drum. Came with bearings installed and looks great. I also picked up some new Forward Frictions. BorgWarner and the number on them is A1925-D. They are a tannish color. I also picked up an extra plate for the Forward Pack. Remember in the above picture someone used 2 waves under the bottom friction. The plate is .090 and the Frictions are .070 Does that sound correct? I also picked up a new ThrustBearing and ThrustWasher kits. They are cheap and might as well replace them. Timken is the Bearing brand. For the 3-4 Clutch Pack, I got BW HiEnergy 9 pack. Seems to be popular and reliable. I got (9) .062 Frictions, (8) .060 Steels and a .128 Apply all together. Does this sound right? In my research, there are a few combos and most use 2 different steel sizes. Also if you would run down the correct order I would appreciate it. Im guessing my snap ring is .062 and will be correct for this setup. And IDK, but shouldnt I use a second .128 Apply?? All the other kits say to use 2 .128 Applys, and maybe they assumed I already had the needed one. Or is there a way you only use one. I plan on following the directions on checking gap. Does .040-.060 Clearance sound right?

Shagwell

.060 steals are the thin steals. - I've talked to Dana from Probuilt about this before. He said that the thin steals use in the BW HiEnergy pack are fine for performance cars, but the thick steals are required when being used in a HD/towing app. Makes sense to me. Heat would most likely be created under heavier loads at part throttle conditions, associated w/ trucks/towing. Cars don't have that kind of load in 3-4 when cruising, and when you are pounding on it you have full line pressure, thus no issues.

As far as the order, I'd have to check, but I have always set tolerances and clutch packs up according to my ATSG manual. The part where I have gotten a bit "trick" is machining the 3-4 apply finger length to allow the number of packs I want and still maintain the proper tolerance. I don't believe there are any different snap ring thicknesses, but I could be wrong. I normally run the waffer/bevel plate, then a steal, then friction, alternating up till the last friction, then the selectable retaining plate of the desired thickness. I've had no issues thus far running the Alto thrust plate by itself, which I believe is about .128 thick. - I've heard of some places that remove the wafer/bevel plate for a quicker apply, but I haven't tried it - What's your opinion on that performabuilt?