aziroc

well in preperation for my 406 tpi in my iroc, i knew id have to totaly get new drive drain stuff. so i got a carbon drive shaft. is there any negative things about these? cause so far i have heard positive things *btw the reason i wdecided on a CF vs an alum 1 is because im getting the car re-geared to get me past the 200 mph mark.. i just need a speedo that does the same now..

a73camaro

I'm curious, what road R U gonna be driving on or is this for the Silver State race thing?

DartByU

I have heard of the epoxy joint failing where the yoke is attched to the carbon fiber tube, I would go with a good well balanced steel shaft.

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92 Camaro RS 5.0 5-Speed(Quasar Blue)
14" Open Air Cleaner
3.08 Posi-trac
Edelbrock TBI Intake
Crane cam
Ported & polished stock heads 3 angle valve job
HyperTech Chip
SLP Headers (Ceramic Coated)
UltraFlo cat-back exhaust

74 Dodge Dart Sport 360 (11.2 1/4 mile)

2000 Dodge 1500 Ram Sport

aziroc

well i want to do autoX or circletrack racing, and i want the car to be capable of some very high speeds *for the circle track*

as far as the silver state racing thing... whats that ?

and as a steel drive shaft... umm no. if anything il do an alum. one. but steel. f that

kevinc

NASCAR mandates steel driveshafts, so they're not all evil POS vibrate-your-teeth-out clunkers. Your car isn't putting out as much HP, nor will it go as fast, as a Winston Cup car. Ever.

The bad rap steel shafts get is from the behavior of the stock pieces. They aren't balanced very well and vibrate noticeably. You run a HD piece from Spohn or Denny's which has been balanced precisely, and you won't know the diff from carbon fiber or aluminum at speed.

Aluminum and carbon-fiber have a weight advantage, that's it. Neither are as strong as steel.

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1982 Z-28

See http://www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=276 for details

Z28Man

Don't sell AL shafts short, newer F150s come with aluminum drive shafts and they are made to haul/pull stuff. My friend has a F350 with 100K miles and pulls around this huge trailer for his business, the tranny went and the driveshaft is fine.

Mark W. Winning

Hell, a broomstick would be better than the steel shafts they put in stock 3rd gens. I would go with an aftermarket steel or aluminum shaft.

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1992 Pontiac Firebird 350/Six Speed
1987 Toyota Pickup 383/500+ HP

OLDYELLR

Apparently one advantage to a CF shaft is that the speed at which any vibration occurs is way higher, which would be ideal for high speed stuff.

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1985 Yellow IROC-Z 5.0 HO, T-5 3.73 Torsen, 4 wheel disks
PFCM pads, GTA wheels, Koni yellows, B&M Ripper, Dynomax

Ragin'87

the Silver State Classic is an open road race in West Texas. I forget exactly what road it's on, but there are several speed classes. It's just like the Pony Express in Nevada, but it's in Texas.

Anthony

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previous ride: 87 Camaro LT
350, A4.Comp Cams 268H, Edelbrock Preformer intake, Hedman Headers and y-pipe, gutted cat, No AIR/smog pump. 14x3" Open element K&N, Q-jet w/ D hanger and DA rods, adjusted AV spring tension and quick can.

Current ride: 1992 Camaro RS, K&N, Flowmaster, 305, T5, Black, T-tops, 76k miles.

Bill86Z

The Silver State Classic runs between Ft. Stockton and Sanderson. It is a 65 mile run. The current leader is a Lingenfelter Corvette(187 mph).

CamaroX84

What kind of trans you gonna take up to 200 MPH? What size rear end gear? One of the biggest factors in determening top speed is the gearing.

johnsjj2

If you bought the CF shaft, keep it. There are more occurences of aluminum or steel coming apart than there are of the yokes coming unglued from the shaft. It does happen, but not very often. The CF will twist up to 4 degrees under load and always return to straight. I know this is different from a street car, so no flames please, but most Pro Stock boys run a CF shaft. If nothing else, and if you have already bought the CF, it would be good for bragging rights!!



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Joshua Johnston
1991 Z-28
Flowmaster
K&N
305 / 5spd. (Temporary)

aziroc

CamaroX84, as far as gearing.. i honestly cant tell u right now. they guy whose playng with my car knows all those gearing # formula stuff. ill give him a call though and see what he is going to do.

Mikey G

I seriously doubt you will get anywhere near 200 mph no matter how tall the gearing. 3rd gens are not exactly know for their aerodynamics. Without really knowing the cD of our cars, you are probably talking about needing 800-900 hp to overcome the drag. I seem to remember Car and Driver building a Firebird with someone in the late 80's and attempting to break 200.

REZN8R

No way dude. Third gens can get to 200mph with 4-500 HP and a 6-speed easy. I say again, Easy. As for the shaft, Carbon fiber should give you less rotating mass than steel, it's supposed to have about the same effect as a lightweight flywheel.

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'91 RS 3.1
SSM SFC's
Energy Susp. Hyper-flex kit
GTA Sway bars
Clarion, Phoenix Gold, JL Audio, etc.
Quote "If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten."
- George Carlin

Mikey G

Rezn8r:

Not to flame, but I am very skeptical of 200mph + 3rd gens. I believe the one Car & Driver did was built by Gale Banks with a turbocharger. Going from 180 to 200 mph takes a lot more HP than you would think.

Anyone out there have any proof?

zero obliquity

November 2000 Chevy High Performance. Tom Haynes has an 89 Camaro he had a 345hp ZZ3 crate motor that ran 184. Now he runs 206 with a 400ci 538rwhp and 2.50 gears. You will need alot steeper gears than that to run autoX.

tzweelz

there have plenty of articles raving about the 3rd gens aerodynamics (numerous CHP and hotrod). i think i even have a "popular mechanics" mag here because its all about downforce, drag, frontal area, and presure areas. the thirdgen was one of the overall best in all categories for a production base model. other than vettes i believe 3rd gens are the most popular model for land speed racing.
i remember the article about the guy w/ the zz4, man he did some pretty trick mods to that car. he was even working on belly pan for it.


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89 Trans Am
jet black w/ silver flake
suncoast ram-air hood
ASAI aerowing
centerline trigons
SLP headers, flowmaster.
Viper 550esp w/ rem start
Grant GT, all Kenwood.
BMR adj.phr, lca's, lca brackets, sfc's, jamex springs, PSC front end

cy Z28

**No Flame intended**
You need to make sure you're getting your crack from a reliable source.

3rd gens of all types are BADA$$ for high speed. They're low, wide and slightly heavy (free downforce). It takes 500 hp a t-5 or t-56 in 5th gear and 2.73's. I'm going with t-56 and 3.73's and in 6th at 6500, 26.4" tire, we're looking at 185mph. That's if I have enough I-20 to do it in. TRAFFIC SUCKS

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Cody "cyZ28" Young
'84 black on black Z28

355, 5-speed (on the way out. What goes back in, ooohh baby!!)
http://www.geocities.com/mustang_tbird/codypage.html

JPrevost

Just to defend the f-body high speeds blah blah.....the fastest STOCK BODY car is a 91 firebird. I believe it was a twin turbo ~42_ cube small block that did over 300mph. I have the article somewhere but I'm too lazy to look for it. Anybody that things f-bodies aren't for high speed needs to do some more homework. No flames but this sure is a hot topic.

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, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

fb305svs

91/2 trans ams had a drag coefficient simliar or less than the vette of simliar year...

woah... opps! just saw the date on the post lol...

copperhead110

http://www.silverstateclassic.com/

Its in Nevada.

Nebraska has one too. I dont' recall its name.

TX might have one too, but I believe you have the name wrong.

EDIT: Whoa, this was an old thread.

blacksheep-1

The only issue that I see with the C/F shaft is that particular material doesn't stand up well to outside abuse. By that I mean oil leaks, damage from road debris. things like that. how much weight would you save over an aluminum shaft?
The other item is that a drive shaft is relatively small diameter. You will pick up some noticeable acceleration, but not as much as (in relation to)if you took weight out of a flywheel, or possibly a wheel rim, since it's mass is farther from the center.
As far as a 3rd gen running 200mph, anything is possible, but it took 300rwhp to run 139 mph on I-275.(so I've heard ) I would think, not being a mathematician, that the drag would go up exponentially so another 300hp wouldn't get you 250mph, it might get you 200 however. BTW, do you have any idea what a little cross wind would do at that speed?

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

In '91, the 305TPI/5spd cars with N10 dual cats were capable of 138MPH stock. That's like 200RWHP.

blacksheep-1

OK, without me sounding like a smartass, would you have an old road test or some documentation. The reason I ask is that my 83 pulled down 197RWHP, but as I recall the trans-Ams always had a higher top speed (because of the headlights). The car that ran 139 was still gaining speed at 139, but it was taking forever and since I wasn't at Bonneville, I backed off.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/articles/vs.shtml

That's for the '87 350-powered Camaro though. I know I remember seeing a '91 305/5spd tested at 138mph.

My car, when I first got it (installed my SLP cat-back within a few hours of buying the car) topped out at 125MPH and that's because my trans doesn't enjoy shifting until 4700RPM when my power is well done by 4500RPM. Not like it would shift into 4th at full throttle anyways. I was stuck at 4500RPM in 3rd gear with 2.73 gears which is a calculated 125MPH, which makes sense since the speedo went a little past the 120 mark (stock 120MPH guage). That's a bone stock 305 TPI automatic with the peanut cam and horribly horribly gapped spark plugs and a rusted/corroded coil-to-cap wire.

RTFC

I have a carbon fiber driveshaft. They weigh 4 lbs. It is on a daily driver, the car is a fairly stock 2.8V6 motor (with lots of bolt-on goodies) and it runs a 15.8 sec 1/4 with 3.42's. I now have 3.23's on it because I wanted a slightly taller road gear. The car is smooth as silk with a complete soild mount TQarm and I get no vibration in the shifting console at all. I have had this car up to 138mph and still not the slightest vibration. It has been in there for about 2 years now and still in pefect condition- it would take a miricle for something to hit it way up inside the tunnel and protected underneath on both sides by the TQarm and the exaust

What esle you want to know from someone that actually has one?

16 lbs - Stock steel LT1 driveshaft
12.2 lbs - 3rd gen aluminum 1LE driveshaft
12 lbs - LPE aluminum driveshaft
11.5 lbs - Stock aluminum LS1 driveshaft
10 lbs - RK Sport aluminum 1pc driveshaft
4 lbs - ACPT carbon fiber

Are they worth it? I was very much so for me and I am buying another one for a different vehicle I own they are that smooth and lightweight rotation mass.

RTFC

I guess a picture would help also

AlbertaFbody

for one carbon fiber driveshaft cool but i would like to read some actual stats on the thing. as for the discussion about going 200mph+ for one you would have to have some damn good suspension to even make it safe in my opinion and i hope that you are incorperating a roll cage and 5 point harness cause if you lose control your toast

hereitgoes

I seem to recall that the team that holds the Stock Body Car land speed record(300+ MPH, btw), did so in a 3rd Gen with a turbocharged small block. They sold that car, and built a fourth gen, with more power, less weight, and a big block. They have yet to break the 300 MPH barrier with the supposedly "aerodynamically superior" 4th gen. The aero/drag numbers on a 3rg gen are probably the best we have seen or will ever see this side of the Atlantic. Lesson: just 'caue it looks slicker, don't mean it is.

DeWynter

Trans Am: .32 Cd
0.299 Cd with standard Aero wheels instead of the High-Tech Turbo aluminum wheels 1984
GTA: 0.310 Cd 1991
2005 corvette 0.28 cd
1990 corvette 0.34 cd
1997 corvette 0.29 cd

3rd gen Firebird looks pretty good to me as far as drag goes compared to a corvette

rx7speed

there are a few cars with better aero drag then the thirdgen
think the thirdgen was around the .32 for Cd
I know the rx7 sport had around .28 with less frontal area then the thirdgen
the honda insight has about the best Cd of any car I know of with mid to low .22 and even less frontal area then the rx7
and there are quite afew others I'm sure that do better as well

so best this side of the atlantic not quite

IceManRS305

iTrader: (-1)

yep, the honda insight had the least ammount of drag ever on a production car believe it or not. at least back when they came out, im sure there are exotics with less but this is just what the article i read stated

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

If you have the money go for it. The amount of rotational mass you save is enough to warrent the cost. You are benifiting from a decrease in weight as well as in increase in driveline efficiency.

rx7speed

eh I wouldn' tbe shocked if insight still holds it

not only good aero but less frontal area as well

blacksheep-1

maybe an insight with a big block in it, instead of that little crappy/dangerous/expensive/hazardous materials incident waiting to happen high bred engine.

porkyzilla

iTrader: (1)

i dont know what your smoking but 3rd gens are KNOWN for their aerodynamics the body in a wind tunnel test was capable of over 300+mph infact our drag co efecient is only .34 which look up new car standards and is about the same for how about an autobahn cruizer say bmw 2004 M3 E46 lets see top speed of 186mph with drag co .33 id say about the same

hereitgoes

OK, OK, so not the best this side of the Atlantic. All I meant by that is it has damn good aero numbers, decent frontal area, and a good suspension to keep it stable at speed. I was personally a passenger on a 130+ MPH run in a STOCK(well, it has an MSD coil, and an open element) LB9 Automatic car. The car was still pulling when he lifted.

A Honda Insight may have better drag and frontal area numbers, but I'm not too worried about it's 65 HP. I can outrun that on a bicycle, going downhill of course, and I weigh 380 lbs.

fb305svs

yeah and the honda insight is a pipsqeak car compared to an fbody... same with the rx's - much smaller car!!!

for the fbody to have a coeffecient of drag as low as it did for the size vehicle it is, it damn good, and you cant deny that!

rx7speed

wow you are one big boy there so yeah you prolly could just if nothing else just pick the insight up and roll it and win

IceManRS305

iTrader: (-1)

haha, i wasnt even saying it was anything better then the camaro i was just stating that it recently holds the best numbers, thats all. lol, i'd never try to compare my car to a hybrid insight lol, nor would i ever even think one would be faster than a thirdgen. i personally think that its amazing how low the numbers are on our cars. and to get back on topic. i think that IF you have the money to spend, a carbon fiber driveshaft is deffinatly a great idea. Every material has its downfalls but i think the pro's out-weigh the con's on carbon fiber

25THRSS

I used to have a CF driveshaft as well, but sold it because it wouldn't work with my 12 bolt. If anyone has a bunch of power and is considering buying one, keep in mind that you will not be able to use a 1350 yolk with the CF shaft. I now have a Denny's Nitrous Ready shaft and I didn't notice any difference at all between the 2.

drain89

iTrader: (10)

...

Jekyll & Hyde

There was a magazine article about this a long time ago. They had an 87 or 88 Trans Am and wanted to see how fast they could get it. A little of 170 and the windows got sucked off the car. They put them back on and taped it up and everything was fine.

Even if you were able to go 200+ you would need to seriously trust the 13-23 yr old suspension and saftey of that car. You would need to weight it down with subframe connectors, roll cages, and some serious drivetrain parts. Once you over come that, shave everything off and tape the windows shut. I still don't think that it would be safe unless you did a frame off restoration and made sure there were 0 stress cracks. Basically it would need to be a new car, records are for breaking, but it takes some cash to be able to break it.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The only bad thing about a CF drveshaft is that they tend to grow in length over time and tha will break things inside your trans and rear... I was told a lot abut them by a guy that builds and sells them when I was at SEMA last year .. He just said not a goodidea in a street car

CaysE

Is there a stock aluminum LT1 driveshaft? I imagine it would be lighter than the aluminum LS1 shaft.

HawaiianRS

I don't know how aftermarket companies are manufacturing them to weigh 4lbs. Maybey that's why people are having problems down the road.
To celebrate 20 years of racing Nissan repurchased some used last gen Skyline's and turned them over to their racing department to be completely stripped and re-built. The result is the quickest production car ever. I only bring it up because it is a production car, sold with a warranty that runs a carbon shaft, so it seems if they are built right they will last just fine, it does weighs 16lbs though. It wont let me show an image but here is the article for anyone interested.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Yes. Dunno on the latter.

jt38385

any one read the article in hot rod about the 69 camaro with the 540 big block going to 220 saying it wll take on anyone...pretty good article.

iroczrockz

I did some research on the CF driveshaft and called a company about it. They said it does have a "rubberband" effect on launches. The guy said you would actually be able to see a difference on your 60' times. As for safety, well if the thing comes apart while going down the track/road you will never be catapolted because it would just come apart and probably clean your chassis real nice. I don't know how much you paid for yours but I know they are around $800. I believe they are superior to any other drive shaft but are out of my league on price. Maybe a tax return some year but definately not saving up for that if ya know what I mean.