48jeepster

So, I just purchased a 1988 IROC-Z with a 350 swapped in where a 305 once sat. Anyway, it has the 700R4, but for some reason the guy told me it's like the transmission won't engage in any gear. The engine starts, runs fine, but it's like there's nothing connecting the engine to the transmission.

He said he had a mechanic come and look at the tranny, and they dropped the pan, checked the filter and there were no metal shavings whatsoever. I checked the dipstick and the tranny fluid is extremely clean.. no discoloration, smell or anything.. I'm assuming they checked the TV cable.. that would be the first thing I'd check, but I'll check that when I get the car as well.

The mechanic apparently concluded that the only possible explanation for the problem is that the torque converter is bad. I know that's possible, but would a trashed torque converter yield the symptoms that I'm seeing? I haven't picked up the car yet, so I can't perform the psi test yet, but I plan to. If it shows pressure in all gears, I'll be dropping the tranny and taking it up to a shop..

I'm hoping it's something simple.. if it winds up being the torque converter, I'm considering just investing in a rebuilt transmission from a local reputable shop. I got a quote for $550 with a core return, and that includes a warranty and everything else. I wouldn't want to toss a new torque converter in an old tranny, you know?

Anyway, any light you can shed or wisdom you can impart on me, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys!

Schwinny

Sounds like a good car, Pick it up and drive it till the wheels fall off.

G-reg

iTrader: (3)

Maybe the bolts holding the flywheel to the torque converter backed out? If they swapped the engine and didn't use loctite that could happen.. Easy enough to check when you're under the car, its just a couple small bolts to remove the cover under the torque converter and flywheel.

Jrgunn5150

Well... A bad converter would leave tons of metal evidence, and it would at least attempt to move the car. A bad pump, would do the same.

However, most people, when the trans is going bad, the first thing theey think to do, after 100k plus miles of never doing regardless of what the service manual say's, is a flush and filter.

So, the condition of the fluid is kind of misleading, since you bought the car that way and don't truly know the history.

First, check the obvious, as G-reg pointed out, they had the motor out, they may have very well fubar'd the converter bolts, or simply forgotten to put them in...

Then just go ahead and drop it in drive and rev it to about 5k, if it makes no attempt to move, move onto the line pressure test.

A rebuild for 550 is suspect... even a cheesy rebuild kit with no sprags and no upgrades is 300 bucks. You at a minimum want new sprags, and all new seals to go along with clutches, etc. I guess if their warranty covers R&R parts and labor go for it though, the worst that can happen is they'll have to do it again, lol.

48jeepster

Yeah, this weekend after I pick up the car, I'll take a look for the bolts, and though hopefully it isn't necessary, I'll do the pressure test.

The trans shop has been in business for awhile and a friend of mine had a transmission rebuilt by them, but I stumbled upon their transmissions on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/700-R...item5190132862

The bidding starts at $599, but nobody ever bids on it.. The guy also offers a $50 credit for a returned core. He has good feedback, even on Ebay, so if I do need to look for a new trans, I'll probably go with him.

Mrs.Crasher0083

My 88 RS did that.......... I checked the housing bolts and only one was still in there!!! Its amazing the guy that sold me it didnt think to check that. Oh well. I sure hope thats your problem. That would be a sweet deal

48jeepster

Really? Well, hopefully you guys aren't filling me up with hope here.. but I'm seriously hoping that's all it is.. that would be awesome, and way better than spending any amount of money on a new/rebuilt trans..

So when you say that the bolts literally come loose, does that mean they'll most likely fall out of the housing or whatever when I remove the cover? And in order to put them back on, I'll have to drop the trans, correct?

ls six

Lol, I rebuilt my 700 last year with a $75 kit from a local auto parts store! The clutch frictions looked like brown paper bag paper glued to the plates lol.

I'll be building a new trans for real driving using 65E guts and a K series case and even if all my second hand hard parts are good I expect to spend well over $300.


No, the converter bolts connect the converter to the flexplate and the trans needs to be installed to put them on.

You simply line up one of the holes in the flexplate to a position you can reach then line the converter up with it. Start the first bolt but dont tighten it, rotate the plate/converter until the next set of holes are exposed and thread the bolt in loose. After the 3rd bolt is in you can tighten all 3 down, dont tightne them until all 3 are in or you'll likely be off with the other 2.

48jeepster

Sweet. So that does mean that the bolts should come out with the dust cover, right? Also, when tightening them, when do I apply the loctite so this doesnt happen again? Do I have to torquet them specifically or is 'really fing tight' good enough? Thanks again for the help!

Jrgunn5150

Yeah i have alot of customers get defensive and ask why I charge so much when they say a kit on Ebay for xx.xx ... I always have to patiently explain that the kits they see are not complete and/or do not have good part's in them.

Many mom and pop shops pull transmissions, replace only whatever is wrong and put them back together. Or worse yet, go into their bag of part's and you wind up with the worst case/vb/sun shell, etc, or some other abortion of part's that should have never been screwed together. Hell, some simply go pull a unit at the junkyard and slap in there, telling the guy it's rebuilt. I got one in the shop (Mustang) that style had the grease pen writing on the case, wrong shift linkage (wouldn't shift into park), and a low speed diesel govenor on it...Ugh

Anyhow, as for your converter bolts, when you pull the dust shield, you should see at least two of them, they run through the flexplate from the engine side (as in bolt heads towards engine), into the converter, there are three total. You'll have to rotate the engine to get all of them, but if even one is there, the car should move.

Not to get your hopes up, but it's just smart to start with the obvious, easy things.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Wow-- thar would be the best 2 things to hope for--
missing bolts // linkage not hooked up to the gear selector!!
I wish you luck!! PLease post when you know what happened!!

ls six

Hey jrgunn, I spent a couple years doing just trans work and I could share plenty of horror stories with you. I'm sure you have some of your own. I could also tell you where you absolutely dont want to go if you ever burn up a trans in Omaha

A junk yard trans and a pieced together rebuild are ok solutions if the seller is atleast honest, the shop I work at now caters to a very low income demographic and it's frustrating not being able to do the quality of work I want to do because the customer absolutely will not pay a decent price

Looking for something better though, even letting thoughts of ownership float around my head.

Gregzz4

Quoting Is Six..Lol, I rebuilt my 700 last year with a $75 kit from a local auto parts store! The clutch frictions looked like brown paper bag paper glued to the plates lol.

I'll be building a new trans for real driving using 65E guts and a K series case and even if all my second hand hard parts are good I expect to spend well over $300.

I have a friend who owns a tranny shop. I paid him a mark-up of about 30% to cover warranty issues and it cost me $2300.00 in parts. Mind you, I wanted bullet-proof.

I just had to comment as I have another friend who does side-builds ( who I would not let do it for warranty probs ) who still berates me for spending the money.

Love the fact you can build a trans for so cheap! Yes I know it's just a stock rebuild, but still. If I only had the know-how.....

ls six

HA! I had to pull it partly apart twice! Mostly because I trusted the guy who rebuilt the thing before me Stupid since the thing had burned the 3/4 pack while everything else was still brand new. Obviously he had done something wrong, as it turns out the TV cable was shot and wouldnt stay adjusted but the real reason it toasted so fast wha the previous builder used a small standard checkball in the fail safe circuit.

This let line pressure drop to almost nothing as the TV slipped, he also installed one of the servo pistons backwards, something I repeated out of blind faith.

It still has the wrong governor and harness in it but I dont intend to get under that thing until I have a nice built trans to swap in.

The moral of my rantings is that you dont need the "know-how" to do it right, half my know how evaporated after 2 years of just running a dyno. Just get a service manual and a clean place to work and be meticulous.

ATX-Iroc

I dont know if its been mentioned yet but that could be the result of a failed pump. Mine felt like the car just went into neutral and when i took it back to the trans shop they showed me that everything inside was still good just that a tech didnt engage the converter all the way when installing the trans. they paid for the new pump.

48jeepster

Hey guys. Picked up the car today. Rained like hell, so I wasn't able to get under the car, but I finally got to fiddle with the trans a bit. The car starts perfectly fine, runs fine (think I may have vacuum leaks, but that's a separate issue) but like the guy said-- just won't shift into gear.

When it's in park, can't take the key out of the ignition.. so the car obviously knows it's in park. When I shift to reverse, the reverse lights come on, so obviously the car knows it's in reverse.. but in all the other gears, nothing happens.

I also quickly checked the TV cable. Car off, pinned the throttle and there was no slack on it whatsoever.


Plan for tomorrow:

Jack the car up, remove dust cover, check for loose bolts.
If there aren't any, I'll do as previously suggested and rev the car to 5k and see if the rear wheels spin.
If that isn't the issue, do a pressure test.


Now, what are acceptable pressure readings in each gear? And also, if the pressures are low, what does that indicate? Failed pump?

Also, if I do opt for a rebuilt transmission, do they typically include a pump with the trans? I'm worried about dropping the cash on a transmission to find out that it isn't the trans, you know?

Thanks again for all the help guys.

48jeepster

So, I got the car up on jackstands, put the car in drive and revved the motor.

The rear wheels spin, but it seems like it's lacking power.

Secondly, we put it in reverse, and the wheels spun forward, not backwards.

We did notice that the front u-joint is on its way out.

Didn't have a chance to do the pressure test, but I'm looking up instructions now..

Any ideas based on the info above?? Thanks guys.

hatemail72

are the bolts holding the torque to the fly wheel together attached

48jeepster

Looks like it. It appears as if there isn't a dust cover, since I can see the flywheel itself. If the bolts weren't connected, wouldn't the rear tires not move?

hatemail72

you will be able to push the car around. so yes the rear tires will move with the flywheel to the tourqe convert not being attached

48jeepster

Oh I know that. I guess I didnt phrase it correctly.. my fault. What I meant to ask was: if the bolts were disconnected, why would the rear wheels spin when I put my foot on the gas and rev the motor?

48jeepster

Nothing at all, guys? Hm.. well, I supose I'll just be in the market for a new trans..

ATX-Iroc

The last thing i would say to check is if the shifter linkage is attached to the trans. Saying that the reverse lights work just means the car knows your moving the lever. And I have seen a driveshaft move in park only its not strong enough to move anything. think about it, ever been messing around under the hood and revved it and the car inched forward and then went right back.

saliger64504

i had the same problem with my trans am wouldnt move at all when gunning it swapped a th350 in it and topped off the coverter and trans and still wouldnt move noticed that i had tranny fluid all over th e engin bay and noticed i had a busted line replaced it and then the th350 worked nicly now im wondering if the 700r4 i have sitting in my garage is still good being it only has 45 miles on a rebuild