Y2KFirehawk

The other day I was reading this post and the post made by 82-T/A [Work] and it peaked my interest. This paragraph intrigued me the most.

That made me think about replacing my roller rockers. I kinda feel dumb asking this but, am I correct that you can replace your roller rockers without replacing the cam? I would do both, but I don't have the time, nor money for both at the current time. Thanks!

Graeme'sFirebird

Yes, you can do just the rockers by themselves, i didnt do 1.52 rockers tho, i went straight to 1.6 rockers. Make sure you know what your doing and how to set the valve lash or u will screw yourself..!

Camar_Hunter_c

Easy, tighten the nut while turning the push rod, when you cannot turn the push rod easily anymore stop your done.

Joe_L

If you Go 1.6:1 you should invest in Fiero Valve covers so that they do not hit/rub against your Firebird valve covers.

white89v6

If you go to 1.6:1 roller rockers should you buy
new springs too.

AFrikinGoodTime

Replacing the stock rockers to 1.52 or 1.6 without installing a new cam can actually be a good thing. Just by adding a larger ratio rocker not only adds lift to the valves like a larger cam would, but it also will add duration too. The final outcome is the caractaristics of a little more agressive cam with only half the valve train being altered from stock movement. It is actually a more reliable mod when prolonged wear comes into play.

AFrikinGoodTime

I did alittle research and ran some figures on the 1.6 rockers. From what I came up with, the stock LB8 V6 cam has .393"I/.410"E lift. The stock valve springs will handle .420" lift.

Now I calculated the lift of increase with the 1.6 rockers and it would be .419"I/.437"E. The exhaust lift would exceed the max. lift that the stock springs will handle so don't use them unless you change the springs. The 1.52 rockers will work fine.

Summit sells Comp Cam 1.52 magnum roller rockers for $110.95. Part # CCA-1413-12

If you want pushrods also the get part # CCA-RP1413-12 for $148.39. This includes 1.52 rockers and high energy pushrods.

Both of these kits are a direct bolt-on for the 60*/V6 cast iron heads with the stock 10mm rocker studs. You will not have to do any mods to get them to work.

Ryan_Alswede

Hey AFrikinGoodTime would all these parts also work on the 3.4 RWD heads too?? Would the extra lift eat more gas??

AFrikinGoodTime

Yes, And Yes.

1) The 3.4's still have 10mm studs, however I'M NOT CERTAIN WITHOUT LOOKING INTO IT but I believe they have heavier valve springs. If so, I would use the 1.6's if it were my car and the springs were rated heavy enough.

2) The higher the lift and the duration, the more fuel will enter the combustion chamber. Fuel mileage is mainly deturmined by how much your foot is into it- the faster the car gets, the more likely you will be jumping on it to a certain degree until the car gets so fast that you don't even need to drive it fast anymore to get your point across- Just a little goose will do once in a while to humble others.

I wouldn't worry about fuel mileage with these little motors. They should alway get at least 15MPG even modified. My real problems are my truck ( 8MPG city or highway) and my Vette (3MPG). You can watch they gauge move as you drive it down the freeway! My truck has a 34 gal tank and I fill it on average 30gals-3 times every two weeks with super, it runs me about $300-$400 per month here in Calif.

Ryan_Alswede

I would just stick with the 1.52's because of the valve cover issue. Thanks for doing the homework.

What year vette?

AFrikinGoodTime

'68. Its an old pic that I've carried around in my work folder for several years, but it'll work.

AFrikinGoodTime

I found a pic of the truck, my Mercedes, and myself (Merc is my daughter) from a few years back also. I don't have any pics of the Camaro, most everything I have of the cars is on video.

TomP

Yep. You can also jiggle the push rod up and down. When the rod won't jiggle up/down anymore, it's "0 lash". Then you go the extra 1/2 turn to set the lifters. When I was doing the heads on my friend's 2.8, the guys from the tech board explained it really well for me here: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=23615

Mileage might even go up because you're coming closer to equalizing the combustion in all 6 cylinders. You won't have any "weak" cylinders, they'll all be the same strength... ignoring abnormal engine wear, of course.

white89v6

I want to go with 1.6:1 roller rockers and I need
hevyer springs. In PAW I found a set for v6 and
v8 small blocks, cam-hyd, type-Sglw/Dmp, lift-.500
price-69.95 These springs are made by Super stock
industries.

My question is will these springs work on my heads

AFrikinGoodTime

Crane cams offers performance valve springs that will handle .500" lift easily and is made specifically for our heads.

You can get them through Summit for $64.99- part # CRN-99848-12

The only aftermarket valve covers I've come up with are Edelbrock, And I'm not certain if they will work. Also they don't have oil baffles. Everyone says Fiero covers will work but I haven't found any info on this nor have I located any aftermarket Fiero valve covers, just used stock ones for aprox. $10.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I have a 2.8l in my s10, basically the same on the inside of the engine. How much power you think were talking, and how much loss of MPG you think?? I have asked this on an s10 board and no response. No one has even changed rockers on a 2.8l on that board.

AFrikinGoodTime

Lets just say it will be more noticable than any cold air intake. The 1.6 rockers would most likely give you about a 1/4-1/2 sec off 1/4 mi. times. It is just like installing a higher lift cam and duration. You could be gaining as much as .050" lift over the stock stamped rockers plus free movement due to the rollers.

I would not worry about gas mileage. I seriously dought you would even see a difference unless you are nailing the throttle alot because of the new found power.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Cool, I just dont want to get to radical with it, as I have no clue what the prev owner did to it. I just know it has WAY more power then any 2.8l with the bolt on mods it has. But do know it has stock, or stock looking rockers on it. It either has to have had a 3.4l kit in it, or one awsome cam!! If I got with to big of rockers, I'm affraid of hitting the pistons not knowing what has been done in the cylinders. Thanks for the advice though!! Check out my site and take a look it it

Camaro_nut

Will these roller rockers fit on a '91 Camaro RS 3.1L motor???
I want to get the 1.52 size ones. Since I need to replace my leaking valve cover gaskets, I might as well replace my stock rocker arms too, and gain some hp!!!!
2.8 and 3.1 are basically the same right?

just bored over a little????

Please let me know, thanks.

KED85

On the 2.8/3.1 engines ONLY
I WOULD install the 1.6 rocker ratio for the increased cam "advantage" of that cam.
On the 3.4 engines, I am now considering using the 1.52 roller tipped Comp Cam rockers.
They will fit perfect and NO VALVE to PISTON interference.
The advantage of 3.4 engines includes the upgraded Valve spring package (able to handle higher revs, it's a dual spring design)

On the 2.8/3.1 engines.
Those original springs are close to being "shot"
Aged.
In perfect adjustment.
IF ya gonna play with the springs and cams and timing chain
You MAY AS WELL pull the heads for "PROPER REBUILDING".
It's a long list (of parts to "REALLY, STRONGLY, ALSO CONSIDER, UPGRADING FOR THE EXTRA PROTECTION, of your current engine) to "take" FULL advantage of
"just pulling valve covers, installing the newer rockers" and expecting the engine to perform, strong, for a long time.
IF your engine is "newer" (under 50K miles or so) this is a GREAT addition to gain some more HP (about 5+).

I use a compression gauge to adjust valves for proper nut tension.
This way, it's 100% correct way to nut adjustment.

KED85

If you see a sun beat red 1974 T-Top Corvette with a cracked rear bumper in the Chatsworth area,
Yep,
That's Makenna (my Corvette name) & me.

Have you been by Devonshire & Balboa in the past?
I see a Black one with "additions" on fenders shall I say.
Looked like a 1969.

Graeme'sFirebird

Im with Karl on this too, definentely go 1.6 on the 2.8, i did and had no regrets

KED85

Graeme,
I sure hope you give a shout back by email!!
U take care

Camaro_nut

You know what?

Screw it! I'm gonna leave my motor alone then!
I'll just do what I really want to do and save to buy
my 383 crate motor w/TPI and a rebuilt V8 trans.!!!!

I'll get what I want out of it, which is about 425HP
and 400 FT LBS. Good for at least 12.5 in the 1/4. mile.
Better than like high 16s/low 17s I'm getting now!

I'm gonna stop putting money into my motor and
save it for a new (better) one!

Graeme'sFirebird

its much much more to swap to a v8 than an engine and trans... i hope you've looked into it.

Camaro_nut

Of course I have!

I know how much it's going to cost, I know how much time it's going to take. I will be doing the swapping! I save on labor, some parts discounts,etc.

Although, Since it can take up a lot of my money and time, maybe I should just buy a 2002 Camaro SS, in like two years! Trade in my car, pay off the major differance. I don't know yet. But I know I can save up the money within the next two years!

Graeme'sFirebird

Me personally, ive stopped buying stuff for my mustang so i can get into another thirdgen or a newer trans am, you cant beat warranties, 13's stock, or their gas mileage... im going 2k down and 314 a month for a new camaro/firebird if i end up doing it.:hail:

AFrikinGoodTime

Oh g()D, New car payments! Plus higher insurance and registration costs! Do you realize what you can do to a used car for $314 dollars a month- actually more like $500 a month when you factor ins. & reg. costs.

When you buy a new car, your chances are very high that you will pull up to a signal next to someone else in that same identical car. I personally like to drive a vehicle with its own personality.

Ked, I only drive the Vette to an occational event. I've had it on willow springs and california speedway this year and thats about it. Its a monster to drive on the street, not fun.

TomP

The main difference between V8 rockers and our V6 rockers is the stud. V8 rockers use a 3/8" stud. Our V6's use a 10mm stud. And if you've spun a wrench, you know that those two sizes are nearly identical. There was a guy on here... can't remember his name.. he has a supercharged 2.8 S10 with a carb, and he found V8 rockers at a swap meet for cheap, and threw them on. He had a problem with one pair, the rocker arms were rubbing against each other. So he just took a grinder (a file would work too) and removed enough metal so they didn't touch.

Are you sure the valve cover gaskets are leaking? Do they look like they're leaking from the back? The o-ring seal on the distributor dries up over time, and causes a leak out of the base of the distributor, where it goes into the intake manifold. The leak can simulate a rear main seal leak, an intake manifold leak, and a valve cover leak. You can put a new o-ring on the distributor (ask the parts guy for a 1 inch inside diameter o-ring), or you can use KED85's method, of using a small block chevy's distributor gasket. Karl's method will probably last longer, but the o-ring is the factory way. Doing both might be a good solution, too- both are cheap. (I found a bag of o-rings at Pep Boys, by their lugnuts and bolts and nuts, 5 1-inch inside diameter o-rings for $1.29.)

Camaro_nut

TomP,

Yes, I know about the O-ring leaks on these cars. Almost EVERY GM with or without a dist. Will have that O-ring leak! I guess I will replace that first. Then go from there. It just looks like the valve cover gaskets are leaking due to it being wet all around the edges of the valve cover itself. I can do this myself. It's just a pain to remove that dist. I never did it on my car yet. It was replaced about 6 years ago! Back in March 1996. So, it's time for another one.

Oh yeah, Is it worth me putting in these rocker arms in my car?
Or should I just put that $110 towards what I really want, which is a total engine/trans. swap in my car. I plan on replacing it with a 383 motor with a used/rebuilt V8 700R4 trans.

AFrikinGoodTime

Put some bearing grease around the o-ring part of the shaft before you reinstall the distributer and it will last forever without leaking. It helps insulate the o-ring and increases the seal alot like a silicone would help seal water.

KED85

You've been to Willow on the track with your Corvette!!
GREAT FUN!!
I gotta go with both ya on warranties/new car/same car at light.
Just rented a new black Ford Explorer for a week (went to Oregon to see what was there. IT'S BEAUTIFUL, of course drove the PCH!!).
TROUBLE FREE 2,000 miles, great gas milage, no worries!
Left it in a parking lot, I was lost, which Explorer, in black, was the one I rented!?!

No problems like that in my Firebird.


BUT A NEW 2002 F BODY!!
Can you say, CLASSIC!!!

You gotta pay somebody, no matter what ya drive.
It's a personal call how much you desire to pay for your wheels (old/new).

BUT a new 2002 F BODY is a GREAT CALL!!!!!!!

AFrikinGoodTime

My father, brother and myself were up there with Dick Guldstrand and some other friends for a function that Mr. Guldstrand somewhat organizes every year. We were not really allowed to pass in the corners but could nail people on the straights--needless to say, this rule went to hell real quick and allot of us were brought back in and relectured. If I remember, next time something comes up I'll try to let you know ahead of time so you can check it out and maybe even get your own car out there. I don't always know whats going on where unless my brother calls me, and most of the time thats last minute.( I just frikin love him for that)
Matter of fact, they called me last night to invite me along next week to Monteray/Laguna Seca for the Concourse, etc... They go each year for a week, but never give me enough notice. I've yet to see the weeks events in person.

KED85

I was just in Carmel/Monterey past weekend.
I thought Santa Monica got crowded!
How is Dick doing?
Last met him in '94 at Palm Springs Corvette 40th Anniversay event. Bought some stuff for him when I rebuilt the rear in my Vette later, as I lived down the street of Thunder Alley.

I used to love last minute stuff.
Give a shout anytime.
You could twist my arm to make me take my Corvette to Willow Springs.

I was on that track for the 1994 Intro of the Ford Mustang. LOTS of good fun! In someone elses cars & Vans!
Any good muffler shops in the Valley?

Graeme'sFirebird

Definentely! Eagle Muffler and Radiator on Nordhoff and... Zelzah i believe...The guy is a perfectionist and is very cheap, the best ive ever seen. he always has lots of cars for performance applications!

KED85

I AM THERE!!!
Whom shall I ask for?

Graeme'sFirebird

Theres only one guy who does their exhaust work, they have it divided on the corner , one for radiators the other mufflers, hes a guy about 50 with an accident. He does really fast work too! Quality stuff.

KED85

Primo information.
SO MANY THANKS!

AFrikinGoodTime

Thunder Alley, I'm 35 and its rare to here anyone mention that name anymore. I spent alot of weekends while growing up in thunder alley. My father has known Guldstrand and Iskindarian and others around there for 40+ yrs, back when Dick used to drive for Penske and then crew for Greenwood. G()d I still remember seeing that bicentenial 76 Vette In his shop now and then. That was my dream to drive as a kid (it went 235mph at Daytona back then!). I probably shouldn't say this but he doesn't really do too much anymore in the way of engineering- mainly he just puts his name on things.I can't blame him though he's earn his repect and keep, and he deserves to take life easier. He caters to the Hollywood crowd with the big bucks for the custom stuff. Like Swartseneggers Hum-V that he dropped a smallblock V8 into and punched the vehile out to do about a 110mph from what I recall. I only see him maybe once or twice a year anymore. I live out in Orange county and have a family life that willingly keeps me away from alot of the car stuff anymore.

KED85

have a family life that willingly keeps me away from alot of the car stuff anymore.

Now having a Son that will be Two on September 11th....I understand........

I can't wait for him to grow a bit more, he loves going with me on rides.

These days, the car must be AC, tho, til the sun cools off.

YOU WERE SO LUCKY to be back IN Thunder Alley in the 70's!!

I only have my car mags (too many!!) of those moments.... I lived back in the sticks of PA. (70's)
I did sit in the last (so told me) Greenwood Corvette racer, tho.... That was a rush.....

Yeah, Dick certainly earned his moments in the sun, now. I'm so fortunate to have him contribute so much to our goofy hobbies! INCLUDING HIS CONTRIBUTIONS to the F Bodies!

mike1986fyrbird

KED85

I can only offer this...
Remember and recall, also, there were moments in life like this, a birth of a child, before some ******* ruined everyones day.
He was robbed of his first birthday.
So was I and my Wife.

MDv6man

I was robbed too

82-T/A [Work]

Yeah, that was me that made the original post.

You'll really like the 1.52:1 roller rockers.

FYI, what you have in your car now are NOT roller rockers, they are just REGULAR rocker arms. The difference between what YOU have and "roller rockers" are the end tips... these are the pieces that touch the top of the valve stem. Right now, you have a flat piece of metal rubbing (lubricated of course) up against the top of the valve stem. Ignoring the fact that the 1.52:1 are a higher ratio for now... the fact that they are ROLLER ROCKERS.. these rocker arms instead have a cylendrical roller in place of where your old rockers just have a flat edge. The roller rocker helps prevent wear, but more importantly.. they help prevent friction, which in turn allows the enigne to move just that much more freely, and doing it's part to not add additional heat to the motor.

The engine compartment will also sound quieter... at least the valve train will.


I did the mod on my 87 Fiero and really liked the results.

I really suggest though doing the valve lash as specified in a Hayes or Chilton's manual.


Todd

my91rs

I just stole a complete 93 w/ a 3.4 for 400 bucks. I ve already fixed the car and now I was wondering if I could sawp out the rocker arms. With it having over a 100k miles on it. The only time I drive the my 2 camaro's are on the weekend. Its strange having a 3rd gen and a 4th gen V6. So now my new project is the 4th gen. So what do yall recomend as far as rocker arms for my 3.4? Not my 3.1.

KED85

I was robbed too

For a 3.4 with over 100K miles
I'd leave what's there alone.
Do a compression check to see how strong the sealing is.
For the 3.4, I'd recommned the 1.52 roller tipped rockers. The cam for the 3.4 is mighty aggressive and there is lots of compression in there (3.4 has 9.1 compared to 2.8-3.1 8.5 or so).
I may add 1.52 for my 1985 Firebird when I do the Fiero valve cover swap.
I'm leaving the stock rockers on the Blazer engine now. To much money invested already, I want a better exhaust so I'm spending my money there.
In my 1974 Corvette, I will use the 1.6, I am still using the original cam (& at 138,000 miles, it's in fine shape)

KED85

I was robbed too

For a 3.4 with over 100K miles
I'd leave what's there alone.
Do a compression check to see how strong the sealing is.
For the 3.4, I'd recommend the 1.52 roller tipped rockers. The cam for the 3.4 is mighty aggressive and there is lots of compression in there (3.4 has 9.1 compared to 2.8-3.1 8.5 or so).
I may add 1.52 for my 1985 Firebird when I do the Fiero valve cover swap.
I'm leaving the stock rockers on the Blazer engine now. To much money invested already, I want a better exhaust so I'm spending my money there.
In my 1974 Corvette, I will use the 1.6, I am still using the original cam (& at 138,000 miles, it's in fine shape)

82-T/A [Work]

Hey, if you guys are looking for Fiero parts, you can e-mail this guy..


fierofactory@juno.com

tell them Todd Jaspers from Fort Lauderdale told you..

He has a huge parts warehouse of used Fiero parts... he can get you anything.

Also, I dunno if you guys have tried to make it work yet, but the Fiero throttle body is a 52mm throttle body, which is much larger than the 47mm that the f-body has. The 52mm throttle body is also made by Holley, it was a factory item on the Fiero.

Also, the HEADS on the Fiero apparently fit, they are 3.4 HO heads that are on the Fiero's 2.8 V6. You can put those on your motor too.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I was told the throttle body wont fit?? Never tried though. Also you go the the parts store and ask for a fiero cylinder head, then go ask for one for a camaro, or s10, its the same part number.

82-T/A [Work]

The Cyl head is probably the same part number because they all fit. But the Fiero has large valves... it's basically the same thing on the 3.4 heads.


Todd