Project: 85 2.8 bird

yes, tech stuff is involved

The beginning of swap #2

still haven't gotten the mounts problem down, but will get some insight when I test fit the 3800.

AM91Camaro_RS

if i'm understanding correctly, you're gonna put a 3800 in a thirdgen? more power to ya man! have fun with it and good luck. I wanna see it when you get it done!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

you understand correctly. I have seen pics of it done in an 84 Camaro, but I've yet to here from that person to get some of the more problems/obsticles involved w/the swap.

AM91Camaro_RS

what are you going to do with the 3.4?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

3.4, tranny, ecm & as much of the harness that I can safely remove are going to be sold. 3800 comes w/matching 4L60E

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I have talked to him about the 3.4, but lack of money and way to get it to me kills the subject

Project, let me know if you need any assitance thru pm or email, I'll do my best.

90firebird

wow, that'll be cool. those 3800's run like high 15's in the quarter, right? best of luck with this swap.... i'm very interested in seeing the finished product. hope to be hearing good stuff about it in the future!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Here's the swap inan 84 Camaro

still no word from him

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Other then the air intake passage, I like how it looks.

If I can stick all that wiring from a 3.4 in my truck, you can get all that wiring for that beast in your car!

1991tealRSt-topGuy

cool

in a 3rd gen that should be a high 14 second car no problem

thats a nice little motor the 3800

KED85

May the sparks fly high in your fabrications!
In whole scheme of things, once past the motor mounts/tranny mount location, you shouldn't have a bit of trouble. Do the exhaust manifolds exit correctly? Any underside obstructions?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I got a lead on an exhaust shop that's been doing some good work(custom y-pipes) for the lt/ls 1 boys in the area. Gonna check it out.

no work tonight as I've finally gotten well enough to clean up the house after a week of being sick along w/rest of family.

90firebird

do u really think it'd be in the high 14's? they run high 15's in fourth gens, which arent that much heavier than thirdgens, right? i dunno about a full second faster....

AM91Camaro_RS

a full second gain on weight alone would require about 1,000 puonds off.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

My GPGT ran a best of 15.5@88, and weighs more than 4th gen V6 birds, and has approx 3.23 gears. Our cars weigh less than the 4th gens (mostly) and have 3.42 gearing. should be interesting :rockon:

Some 4th gen timeslips

Doward

What is it... 200hp?

Like 40hp more than the 3.4, stock

So you figure, more power, less weight, and better gearing.

Yeah, sounds good to me, too

1991tealRSt-topGuy

with a 5 speed i've seen them run bone stock low 15's

15.1/15.2

a lighter car and you could see 14's

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Power Steering Pressure Switch, and a search that actually worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This will help keep the engine bay clean, as it looks like I wont be needing it. I have the engine 100% disconnected from the wireharnesses. And 3 plastic bags containing disconnected wire harnesses. The 3 relays by the brake booster are off, & I have segregated teh firewall harness into 2 parts, those wires that still need to be in the bay (wiper, brown wire from alt to gauge, etc) and 90% of teh starter wires) Gonna have to compare schematics to splice correct 85 wire leads to 95 wires. The pass side has 2 big harnesses. I will most likely have to disconnect the ecm plugs & see about passing them thru the fender (also gives me excuse to replace crapped out heater core ).

Pics:

Drivers side:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_190_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_191_full.jpg

Pass Side:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_193_full.jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_194_full.jpg

90firebird

sweet! keep us posted!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Old tranny out

Factory sticker still on tranny after all these years

More indepth A/C delete procedures

The things you use to keep engine from tilting back too far

edit: 4L60E in!!!!!!!!!!! That thing owned me big time, took about 2hrs to get it high enough to put the cross member on. I was able to restrain my self from adding about $457.00 to the cuss jar by keeping it all inside. Gonna take a break from the engine swap & see about getting to the heater core & yanking the ecm harnesses.



edit 2: The shifter linkage on the 700-4R, that is connected to the tranny, needs to be swapped to teh 4L60E. THey have different connectors, but the cable bracket goes on the same place.

90firebird

i have heard that the 4l60e is like a newer version of the 700r4.... would u happen to know if that is true? did u use the stock crossmember, or did u need to fab up something?

KED85

BITCHIN!
BITCHIN!
BITCHIN!
Keep at it!

Pyroja

Woo, keep up the good work! Now I'm entertaining fantasies of doing the same to my car.. Though perhaps I should learn how to merely get the 2.8 running as it should first, heh.

AM91Camaro_RS

yea, the 4l60e is an electronically controlled tranny. i believe its about the same as a 700r4. my dad's s10 has the 4l60e. its stock and will shift rather firmly. he's got 3.73s in an otherwise stock rearend and it will chirp hard hittin second.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I used teh stock crossmember in the same location. Also am using teh poly tranny mount bushing. Appearantly, the mounts in the 4th gen cars are slightly different, as they need to notch their crossmember a little to let the poly mounts go on correctly.

Removing the ecm harness wasn't as much trouble as I thought. I just now need to buy some of those plastic plug/keepers to keep teh rear innner fenderwall in place. I do now have a nice place to rout the 3800 harness wires that go into the cabin. ALso have removes about 80% of teh A/C assembly. Dam that thing was weak. Like halfas s fiberglass/plastic. I'm gonna get some sheet metal & seal off the opening, and get some more of thatfiberglass repair kit stuff and seal off the squirrel cage.

Lots, I mean LOTS more room in the bay w/o that A/C stuff.

'84TA w/L69

you said that the 3800 comes with the 4l60e...wouldnt it be nice to upgrade to the 4l65e...just a thought if you have the cash...there was an article about the comparison of the 2 4l6x motors in one of my car magazines...the 4l65e has a lot stronger parts...and a lot better gearing...

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I'd have to research moreon the bellhousing bolt pattern, but the current tranny should be plenty strong for current motor. Although I will keep it in mind fir future "blown" modifications

90firebird

what cars does the 4L65 come in? i mean, the 4L60 backs ls1's... dontcha think it wouldnt have any problem with the 3800?
.... enlighten me about the 4L65....

'84TA w/L69

in my magizine that spoke of the 4l65e...they stated that it was a new performance tranny...i dont believe it comes in any vehicles yet...but i dont know a lot about the newer vehicle models...i'll have to dig up the magizine...then i can post more info on it...

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Info on teh 4L60E/65E

back on topic, I haven't done much on the car this past week. WOrk is a bytch, and got a new computer (Dell Dimension 2400 2.4ghz, still using the PII 400 though ). I belive in late Dec/Jan I'm going to pull the 3.4 and see about fitting the 3800 in, depends on funds & availability of cherry picker (if it will even fit in the garage )

KED85

BITCHIN' PRESENT TO YOURSELF!!!!
Are the two tranny's the same length?
I'll bet the 3800 is also a longer engine, watch out for front underhood clearence.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

The guy I spoke to who assisted in some of my ideas on my truck swap, installed a full L32 with 4l60, everything bolted up to STOCK s10 mounts, even used stock driveshaft.


So trannys should be same, fit fine.

Engine will stick out front more, hood clearence will be the issue.

If I get a small discount, and no work at work, I would come help

Still have the "lack of truck" problem too Think a 3.4 would fit in the back seat of a camaro?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Hood clearence.




edit: I looked at the pics of that 84 Camaro again. I beleive that the alt is far enough back in the engine bay tnot to have any hood clearence issues. If a wanted a STB however.................

Project: 85 2.8 bird

OK, should have engine pulled next week.

Q: How do you pull an engine w/o a cherry picker in a 1 car garage?

A: THIS and 6' of 1 1/4" iron pipe suspended from teh garage ceiling. All this based on THIS 2

Will not lift a regular "corporate" v8, but the alloy engines should be fine

KED85

3.4s fit SO EASY in the back of a F Body!
I know!
So the back lid doesn't close all way.
I guess I'm glad I mentioned the hood clearence issue NOW!
Simple solution really!
Look under hood of 3rd Gen 20th Trans Am, see whatever they did & dupe it!
Second is as easy, too.
Look under hood of 4th Gen, see how they compensate for front engine clearence & dupe that, too.
The front of the 3800 Fuel Injection unit will be "nose down" IF I am correct, already.
PS REALIZE this swap may be a better Camaro swap project due to hood line!
You'll keep us informed! Hope I offered good clues.
PSS Firebird got the 3800 engine, not the Camaro, so it can be done, too!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Hoist Pic 1

Hoist Pic 2

Just need to drain coolant, remove motor mount bolts, lift & remove

( provided ceiling doesn't crash , but I'm sure it wont )

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Nail 2 more 2x4s up on the sides of that hole in roof.

Ked, kinda hard to drive 680 miles back with an open hatch.

I dont have a back seat right now either Been to cheap/lazy to get another can of cleaner to clean them.

Bla, added weight I dont need

Project: 85 2.8 bird

THe pipe it's attached to is resting on 4 beams, all near truss supports/joints.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Cool, good luck with that

KED85

I've driven in 25 degree weather with a convertible top down.
Good defroster helps! AND top was too cold to raise & stretch fabric w/o ripping top
Put on more clothes!
Ya getting a screaming deal!!!

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Polymount transferred & in place

Mr. Speedo Cable, meet Mr. VSS

Shifter Linkage

Ready to pull, drivers side

Ready to pull, front/pass side

Able to leap tall buildings......

Empty, once again

3800 brackets on 2.8 mounts, something aint right here

edit: pipe, hoist, chain cost less than $100 :rockon:

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Engine bay cleanup is coming along good, pics soon.
Also some notes for everyone:

1. THe wire harness on by the brake power booster goes to the fuse block, and will allow to play car radio while doing maint w/the two wires that go to the starter hooked up to the POS(+) battery cable. Vise Grips do this nicely

2. Keep the relay block & spring do-hickey from the a/c unit, as the squirrel cage will not rotate w/o these (going to find a place to mount the springs safely out of the way.

3. The motor brackets, when put beside each other, are like compairing a harley to a huffy. Yeah, they each have the round things for the bolt to go thru, but you'll see when pics are up.

4. You really wont belive how much crud gathers on the bottom of the K-member until the engine's gone

Project: 85 2.8 bird

Cleaned up drivers side

Cleaned up passenger side

Cleaned up firewall
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and, FYI






just a test fit, those brackets are gonna be a butch to get done

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Test fit or not :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

KED85

WHAT A GREAT JOB YOU HAVE DONE!
A friend recently installed a Chevy V* into a 1950 Ford Bullet Nose Business coupe.
He used boxed frame stock for the mounts.
A Clue?
You look good at the nose of the FI unit for hood clearence (SO FAR!)

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

way to go man, that thing is gonna move. is the engine stock or do you have anything done to it? if not are you going to do anything to it?

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I'm sort of looking for tubular manifolds from 99+ F-bodies, as those are almost just as good as headers, and also looking for a deal on an aftermarket cam, as it is easier to install before putting engine in the car. The alt looks good for clearance, but I will say this, If it had the straight tb, and not angled down, there would've been serious issues.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

I actuall yhave a lead on the 00+ manifolds, not 99, but anyway, some neato pics of swap so far ( takin gsome time off, had toair garage out of paint fumes last few days,

Before:

http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_181_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_182_full.jpg


and now (no clear cote on paint yet, so not as shiny):

http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_217_full.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...0_218_full.jpg



Yes, that is correct Pontiac blue (on the Buick motor )


edit: One more

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Project: 85 2.8 bird

OK, broke down & did some mechanical work tonight. I was able to get 3 bellhousing bolts connected to block, & have front of oil pan resting on about 3/8" scrap of board on k-member (just enough not to crush that brake line going across. The engine looks to actually be sitting lower than the 3.4 did, definately will not hae any hood issues. STB looks feasable also, 2pt for what I have in mind. Pics later, gotta give camera rest, tired of taking so many pics of same car .

Noticed that car is riding higher in fron t than before, making me think that the springs have seated properly & I wont have that clearance problem like before w/the t-pipe hanging down.

edit: Last pics for a while, gotta study for promotion,

Front shot for clearance

Side shot for hood clearance. Good thing it does have the angled throttle body