ThUnDeR2005

Ahhh... as most of you know I just purchased a 1985 Camaro v6.... ok so maybe not. Turns out its an 84 camaro. Owner says it had 72,000 miles because it was salvaged and he put in a new motor. Feasible idea right? Carbed 2.8 into an 85 model because of a swap... but now this vin is showing up as an 84. I'm starting to wonder if there was any odometer tampering.

Would a carfax report tell me exactly what went on with this thing? If there was odometer fraud then do I have any legal rights? *** I would feel sick to my stomach if this engine was like 172,000 miles instead of 72 and that had somehow turned over a the 100,000 mark.

Doward

Don't even keep that engine man. If I'm not mistaken, you're like 15, and have some time to build the car. FIND A 3.4!! Seriously, get a low mileage 3.4, and swap it. If you really want to have some fun, get a 3.4, and the ecu/wiring harness/intake setup from a 2.8 or 3.1 MPFI, and get the distributor from that motor, and swap a fuel injected 3.4 into your car.

You will thank yourself later

Dale

iTrader: (12)

If you like the power the engine has, leave it. I pulled one out at 198.000 miles, and it still had plenty of miles left on it.

If you really want to drop a new engine in, you have many options.

another 2.8, up to 3.1, up to 3.4, then stay carb, swap to mpfi, or swap to TBI, or hardest, SFI. Or get a v8.


Sorry to here about your misfotune, we wondered if it was an 84

Doward

Yeah, but we're talking the small journal 2.8 here... notorious for rod tossing action. Find a later MPFI 2.8, and use it, or a 3.1, or a 3.4. I'd really hate to see you get the car running smoothly, only to have to do engine work later, when you are actually driving it

ThUnDeR2005

well i'm not quite sure I have the tools to do such a job but a mechanic could do the swap for me for much cheaper than v6 to v8? Since its a helluva easier?

kretos

my advice to you on the swap is, learn your car. get out there and start turning a ratchet while you have time now, its really not that hard and you will thank yourself later since you will actually know how to work on your car then be broke from paying some mechaninc to do it yourself

ThUnDeR2005

My problem is I do not have the tools to do the swap. I'm sure I can do it knowledge wise from a little help from friends and a manual, but the actual swap is hard to do without the equipment. I did hear, however, that you can rent such tools..... is that possible?

kretos

you;d need a cherry picker and an engine stand to build the motor up. the cherry picker you rent for 1 day to get the old engine out, and then drop the other one in. it'll cost you maybe 40 bucks and some places even do them leave a deposit and you get it back after you bring the tools back, how long till you can drive this car? cus if you have a while its tottaly worth doing.

and the engine stand is only a hundred or so dollars, check ebay

ThUnDeR2005

I actually wont need this til OCT 4...... only thing that could prevent me from doing this is a lack of funds..... im actually looking to sell my PC in hopes of raising the money

kretos

if you have someone who can help you (father brother) and you follow the tech article it won't take you a month to do the swap. biggest part will be reconnecting everything once the engines in the car. as far as cash goes its alot cheaper to do it yourself, and with the amount of info and people who have done the swap, one of us can give you some pointers if you run into a wall

FbodTrek

Cherry picker is a must. You'll need a 1/2 inch ratchet and some long extentions to get to a few of the tranny bolts. You'll want to put the car up on jack stands and break the trans lose before anything (along with exhaust and flywheel bolts). Don't bother with and engine stand, find a clean slab of concrete and a 4x4 piece of wood. If you swap the oil pan or for some odd reson decide to rebuild the bottom end, you can do it upside down with the motor hanging on the hoist. You'll be fine. As long as the car itself is in good shape, you're golden. Swapping your motor and building it up will be somthing you'll tell your future kids about, maybe they'll be inspire to hot rod their severly underpowered car in the future (If internal combustion dies out, I'm drilling for my own oil, this is Texas...)

br()bert

V6 to v8 tool wise i used a $10 set of k-mart ratchets and the guy i got my v8 from engine lift. Took about 6 hours with most of those hours spent on the motor mounts. Gettin the old motor out was about 1/2 hour, new motor in was about 1/2 hour to 45 mins iirc.

3.4 swap does sound much easier then the v8 swap. Also you can find a 3.4 for dirt cheap.

But just about any motor would be better then the one you have now.

Projek: 85 3800

not everyone needs a cherry picker

and there's that full complete sfi 3.4 engine & tranny for sale if you want. good price too. And Dale is here for tech support on that swap

ThUnDeR2005

whats the sale? Is it manual transmission?

FbodTrek

The tranny for sale is an auto 4l60, a crappy computer controlled tranny thas is very parasitic. Stick with what you got (5 spd right?). I wish mine was strapped to a T5, I'd prolly be a few tenths faster.

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

You can take the old engine out and you will have the replacement right there. You can over haul it with new seals or you could rebuild the heads and put in a bigger cam.
It will be your engine to do what ever you want as long as you have the money.
The old 2.8's cylinder heads have smaller valves (there non-high output aka H.O. heads) , the oiling system sucks, the crank shaft bearing jornals are weak, they are externaly ballanced and the main seals leak oil.

ThUnDeR2005

thank ***! Someone knows why my car leaks oil! it is a main seal problem Dang!!!

well where this 3.4 for sale? Can I just take the engine and not the transmission?I'm highly interested in this lol

EDIT: Wait are you saying I should rebuild my current engine? or the 3.4 that i may swap?

kretos

hes saying get the 3.4 its a much better engine, they are a h.o. engine. much better if your looking for more power but good gas milage

ThUnDeR2005

ok but what about the problem of switching from carb to fuel injection? Aren't I gonna run into some serious snags there?

kretos

yes and no, its gonna cost you more money to switch back to fuel injection (wiring harness, distributor) but who said you couldn't carb the 3.4? there are intakes for it. i'd persoanlly go back to fuel injection but don't rule out a carbed 3.4 L

ThUnDeR2005

Well I saw the tech article about how to go from TPI to carb...... but does SFI follow the same pattern?

Btw why fuel injection? Just cuz the gas mileage or more power?

kretos

you are going to get people from both sides saying carb and fuel injection is better. persoanlly i say fuel injection is better because you don't need to keep tuning it, or messing around with rods and jets.

ThUnDeR2005

true.... hmmm... for my sake carb would be easier. I know you gave me some rated power numbers at like 160 hp 200 torque...... would switching to carb kill those numbers a bit?

kretos

if you tune the carb properly you will roughly have the same power, granted not as much but its close enough and still a great upgrade

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

It depends on what kind of carb, how big it is and what kind of intake you have.

ThUnDeR2005

one thing that is bothersome is the price of a good performance carb for v6's

I saw this 390 CFM holley and they wanted 280 dollars for it... ouch

FbodTrek

Carbed can actually make MORE power. You only tune a carb oncce by the way (or it wasn't done right). Carb is WAYYYYY more reliable than fuel injection, do you know why? Because there aren't 7 different sensors to crap out on you. The only reason you will have a goofy idle, stumble, sag, is Mecahnical. Mechanical probs are a cinch for any decent mechanic. If you have your carb specifically tuned for your displacement, cam profile, and induction, you will make more power.

ThUnDeR2005

i cant find a good carb though for a v6... u know any?

kretos

your probably gonna have to shell out the 280 for one.

ThUnDeR2005

ah damn

well

I'm also thinking about swapping a 305. If I went from V6 carb to 305 Carb I think i may have a lil easier time than v6 carb to v6 FI dealin with the computer crud and having to rip up the engine to turn it into carb.

I think I'd just need to mod the engine mounts and put in a new transmission. I can live with my leaky 2.8 for a bit, I do have backup transportation so this car can hvae downtime without a problem

br()bert

Uhm, no. Dropping a v8 in a v6 car is ALOT harder then swapping induction on a 60* block. Btw what "computer crud" are you talking about? Their is no need to mess with the computer. Mine still sits in the car left as it was before the swap.
To convert the v6, Pull the fi stuff off, bolt on a manifold and carb, hook up the afpr, throttle linkage and tv cable.


BUT

For the cost of a 3.4 (if you go that route) and the cost of the edelbrock manifold and a carb you could find a v8 motor and trans.

You dont mod the engine mounts, you pull the v6 motor/trans, Remove the v6 mounts, Bolt (or weld as some have done) in the v8 mounts forward on the k member, You also have to move the brake line a little.

BTW either with a carb'ed v6 or v8 if you have an electric high psi fuel pump you'll need a fuel pressure regulator with a return line.

ThUnDeR2005

ok sorry didnt mean to sound stupid or anything, I'm still grasping the ropes of workin on cars.

If I bolt in the engine mounts, do I need to create the hole to put the bolts through? Or do I remove the V6 mounts and bolt in the v8 mounts where the V6 mounts were located?


I'm sure the fuel pump on this is stock, its a 2.8L 2BBL carbed engine, I would think its not a high PSI pump. Could be wrong though. Anyway to check?

kretos

personally i'd stay away from dropping in a v8. grab a 3.4 and enjoy it

br()bert

You didnt sound stupid, no one here knows everything.
If you bolt in the engine mounts(the v8 ones) the holes are already predrilled. Go out and look at your engine now, see the v6 mounts? Look right infront of them, those holes you see are for the v8 motor mounts. As far as the fuel pump goes i dont know anything about the fuel pump on an older carbed 60* but im sure someone else will.

Take your time, do some research, check some prices and see whats the best way for you to go.

Projek: 85 3800

fuel injection can make more power than carbs, but it costs more to do so.

Here's the link to the 3.4 for sale: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=256986

it comes w/the computer, coil pkas, etc. pretty much everything needed to to just drop in. Nothing wrong w/autos, just personal; prefences. You could always sell it 7 use those funds to pay for the engine/swap. YOu can also do what Karl did w/his 3.4 parts...sell them, and end up w/a 3.4 carb engine.

You would need an aftermarket electric fuel pump though. those can run about $25 or so. All you need is one from a tbi application, and an afpr.

Check out the engien swap section for what it takes to drop in an 8cyl engine, sbc or newer. Like br()bert said, research first.. Maybe you'll find you can deal w/the six for a while.

ThUnDeR2005

I wonder how much shipping would be on that..... OUCH

if it aint TOO much that would be an awesome deal, definitely worth consideration.

LD1985

As far as I know there is no 100,000 mark on our cars.....at least not on my 89'

ThUnDeR2005

i know but once u reach 100,000 miles doesnt it all go back to 000 000 0?

Projek: 85 3800

the 85 cluster I gave Karl has 5 milage counters. THe 88 cluster I swapped in has 6. THerefore, it will go up to 999 999 before flipping.

ThUnDeR2005

so it flips over at 99,999 miles?

its possible then that this engine could actually be 172,000 miles even though the odometer reads 72,000 (because I only have 5 numbers in the cluster)

Projek: 85 3800

yes

ThUnDeR2005

lovely

Hmmmmm you think carfax would help clear this up or would it be a lil too sketchy for them to draw any conclusions...

Projek: 85 3800

car's probably too old for it, but you can try. CarFax only shows what's been reported, so you have todeal w/that. PLus you said the car has a salvage title. Overall, what's wrong w/it, besides the engine?

ThUnDeR2005

Actually besides an oil leak, the gas can seems to be a tad rusty with some cracks. Dunno how serious it is but I plan to put some rust spray on it after i sand it down a bit.

Other than those it seems drivable. Works fine ( i havent driven it around much though, still needs tags and insurance)

LD1985

I'm not saying you're wrong...but if your '88 has 000 000 why does my '89 only have 00 000? My cluster says the car has 22,000 miles but I know it's 122,000

kretos

my 88 camaro has 6 digits it reads 185 thousand clicks

BRobinson

Hey, if you switch over to FI or TBI or whatever, I know a guy in Horton, KS, about an hour and a half drive from Lincoln straight down US-75 who has a crapload of thirdgens setting out in a field.

Gumby

Sounds screwy. maybe the car was wrecked or in a fire and they replace the interior parts with olders early 3rd gens with only 5 numbers???

Were there any 5 numbers 3rd gens???

My 86 has 6

210,000


Or maybe someone covered up the 6th number. Look close for any tampering.

LD1985

there isnt any tampering..and yes...I've never seen a third gen with 6 numbers...so most had 5....before i bought mine i saw a 92 bird with 5 in it

Gumby

Maybe only Firebirds got 6 numbers??? or / Pontiac's.