ScrapMaker

I was driving down this hill, with the left lane completely open, and the right lane was full of people turning right. A guy in a minivan pulled out right in front of me to jet across the street.

I braked hard and swerved left (at about 40mph,) and he kept going so I still hit him, RIGHT ON HIS DRIVERS-SIDE RIM! There is actually an imprint of his dodge caravan's rim on my front bumper.

The front bumper looks okay, but my passenger fender, hood, sub-frame, headlights, and pretty much everything around the fan and in front of the fan is ruined. Headlights are shattered, and the assemblies do not work.

His tire was bent in and his vehicle was disabled. The police came and he was towed off to the parking lot he pulled out from.

By the time the police report was done, it was dark, so I couldn't drive the car--it wasn't overheating, and the fan was working fine.

I can't decide if this is a blessing, or not. I have been saving up to get a 1990'ish trans am GTA, so I have about $3k saved up right now for it. I wonder how much I can get for the v6? The paint wasn't in good condition, and the front bumper cover and passenger fender had been replaced and were already painted black primer (rest of car is white.)

I have invested about $2,000 into the rebuilt motor I got in 2002... so the engine is pretty good... so the question is... can I expect like $2,000 for the car itself, and ANY money for the engine, or what?

Plus my neck actually hurts a little bit, and my insurance company is closed for the night.

Monday morning I am going to drive around and get quotes on the repair.

jandl22

Dude,
That sucks, as long as you are ok. Judging by experience here and the negativity toward anything under a v8 I would suggest either fixing her or parting. I am just speaking freely so don't get med. Fix her up and keep her.
Lawrence

ScrapMaker

here are some pictures.
lol here is a shot of their RIM!!!

ScrapMaker

jandl22

That looks pretty crunchy,
Go to a junk yard, pull the parts you need and redo her. As long as you have no frame damage it should be an easy fix. How did the cops feel when you were taking the pictures?

Doward

Yeah, that doesn't look too severe. Get a new paint job out of it, too!!!

Gumby

I would see a doctor ASAP and call a lawyer.

Trust me on this. You don't want to accept some cheesy $2-3000 check from the insurance company then have neck problems your whole life.
Might not hurt bad now but damage like that is progressive.
Your neck is now easier to hurt. You would be ill advised to take anything less then $10,000 and they pay your lawyer fee's.


Don't wait another day, min or hr. Or it may look like your just after cash but your not. Your after just due cause trust me. Your slight neck twing will get you later and cost you more.

CrimsonDragon

Definitely take the advice on getting a good attorney. I did it the wrong way after getting rear ended and my neck has never been right.

Xophertony

if you have the means to pull an engine it would not be too difficult (speaking comparativly) to swap out the subframe from another vehicle or go with an aftermarket subframe (thats what a k-member is right? the complete subframe?) would not even cost that much if you pulled one out of a junkyard car. (but it might be hard to get a junker w/o a bent frame)

anyway, explore ALL the options before you make a decision. and good luck.

kretos

you could not really swap out the subframe in these vehicles, as it is part of the car, the k member isn't the subframe its the part of the car that keeps the engine in the engine bay

V6sucker

that is not, repeat NOT totalled. Nowhere close.

Remove the hood and fender. Then see where your shnit lays. I bet the rad core support is not even bent.
Hood, fender and damage to the front bumper cover mean he has to pay for replacements, and have them painted. So if you are nice to the body shop they might paint you rear cover...
And with that damage... I highly doubt the subframe is bent... it take a little more than a rub to do that.

hit a junk yard, the classifieds here or ebay for the headlight/turn signal.

ScrapMaker

Well I'm pretty sure the subframe is bent, since the impact was no where near the driver's side, and yet the driver's fender is sticking out like 3 inches.

the front of the car is pushed in about 5 inches, and the space between the radiator and the engine has been cut in half near the impact. Both headlights and all the assemblies are destroyed, both fenders are destroyed along with all the GFX. Both of my doors do not shut well anymore--which just says that my frame is feeling some pain.

Also I heard some strange noises while I was driving it to a safe location last night... from the tranny or something. My bro was telling me that certain things can be damaged even though the impact was not directly on that object.

Also I feel fine today, I think it was because I tensed up before I hit the guy.. but definitely I will persue the correct avenue if necessary.

Monday morning I will get a few estimates from local shops, but I'm really certain they will tell me it's totalled.

Here are a few peices that I know the dealer cost on... (about.)

Fender $300-400 x 2
Front Bumper Facia $300-400
Front Ground Effect $200 x 2
Bumper Innards -- who knows
Fog Lamps + Assemblies -- over $200 for the pair
Hood $350+
Subframe is contorted badly--either replace or repair--pretty expensive

Labor on all this work. Priceless.

Thing is, a friend of mine wrecked his 1974 Nova a few months ago, and he got $5500 for it, because of a relatively new engine, and a few suspension repairs. He just showed all the receipts, along with some AutoTrader/Ebay Auction information. They were only going to give him $1500 for it.

I have the following invested in this car:
Initial Price $3100 (with ttl)
Complete Engine Rebuild ~$2000
Extensive Front-End Repairs (suspension/steering) $600-$1000
Alarm $550
Tinted Windows $300
Car Stereo Wiring $150
Brand New Firehawk Tires $400
Brand new Headlights, Foglights, and Foglight Enclosures $40+$40+50
Brand new Computer $75
New Coil, Distributor, and Yellowtop Battery (I would pull that out.) $225ish

I'd need about that much to get a car in the same condition as what I've got... ~$8000 The engine has friggin 20k miles on it! The only thing I really had left on this car was a tranny rebuild and a new paintjob--then I'd be good to go for like 8 more years.

I figure that the EXACT condition the car was in (excluding the engine,) I would have gotten about $2200 (according to ebay and autotrader)... add in the rebuilt motor, and a few other things and I should easily get over $3000-$4000.

Guy, you and me both know that this car will never drive right again, with a bent-up subframe. Well, I guess I'll know for sure when I take it in, but my bro was crawlin' under there and he said it would have to be put on a frame machine for sure.

Luckily my car isn't leaking any fluids, but my engine fan switch stopped working (it may still work from the computer,) and the fan seems to rub on something now... Yeah it pushed up enough to damage my fan. The Radiator is pushing the Air Intake tubing dangerously close to my serpentine belt...

I'm suprised though, with my bad luck, I should have been at fault for the accident.

My overall goals were to have this car, as well as a GTA at the same time, keep one for good mileage, and the other for all-out pleasure. Now it's gotta be one or the other I guess.

I already have $3100 saved up for a GTA-- and they seem to run about $4000-$5000 for one with low mileage. I saw one for $5000 last week with 30,000 original miles.

I'm just really confused now, but I guess I should wait for the estimates, and see what the other insurance company wants to do.

I just really don't like the idea of someone half-assing a critical repair on my car.

Doward

Seriously, take V6 sucker's advice, and unbolt the nose/fenders, then see where you stand.

There is a UNBOLTABLE bumper support, that looks like it took almost ALL the damage - pull and see!

V6sucker

from looking at the pics, it just looks 100% superficial...
Hell even looking at the tire and how it is sitting tells me the core of the car is fine...
The tire is not cockeyed, or looking like it is off pitch or at some wierd angle...

Just unbolt the front panels and take a look then.

and at best you might get 1500 from the insurance company IF they total it.
KBB, 120K miles, just did power everything, t tops, auto and fair condition, which with the lack of painted panels, I was being nice and used fair.

So please, just get your hands dirty and look...

ScrapMaker

you guys are killing my dreams of a GTA! nooo!

oh well, I will take it to a few shops in the morning and get them to take a look... I know for sure the subframe is bent, I just don't know how severe, or how easily that is repaired.

The way I look at it, if I were to have sold it yesterday, I couldn't have gotten $2500 for it. If I could get somewhere in that range, I may just take it. I have had nothing but problems with this car, and the tranny is literally about to go out. I mean in a month or two. It's got 170,000 miles on it!

I definitely have NOTHING against the v6s, or I wouldn't have driven one so long, and put so much money in one.

Clearly most of the damage is superficial, but tell me this. How is it possible that the driver's-side fender is pushed out about 3 inches, if the sub-frame was not ****-eyed?

As far as I can tell, the car drives the same, and the engine sounded fine. I bet a few hoses are snapped here and there, but it seemed okay.

My 1AWG power wire for my stereo actually FLEW out of the fuse holder. It was crimped in place, AND soldered, just for the hell of it. My car just changed length or something and ripped that **** right out.

V6sucker

1. You will get nowhere near 2500 form the insurance company for it. Get that pipe dream outta your head. Take a look at what I plugged into KBB, and that was with 50K fewer miles and probly more options that you have.

2. Metal does funny things when it bends. Predictable for the most part, but it can get strange. How can the fender do that? easily... it was hit by a fraking VAN! creased metal bends excessivly.

3. I still do not think the frame is bent.

4. The power wire, anything could have made it rip out. It is not that hard to do. Hell was it bolted to the fender at any point... if so duh!...

5. How can the oppisite fender be pushed out... ever hear of a hood slide impact? the hood is clearly crinkled, and was hit laterally, at its strongest point of impact. Want to verify that? take a look at the fender mount bolts and see if the fender rise is still at a 90* angle to the bolts... if so, then yes there is underling damage, if not... hood slide.

ScrapMaker

I woudn't say 2500 is out of the question, considering my friend got $5500 for his 1974 Nova... which kbb rated at about $500.

I also had another friend who someone totalled his civic. He got bluebook PLUS the price of his rims, transmission work, and other engine work.

Tomorrow morning I will take a look at all these issues, but first I want quotes of the damage without dissasembling stuff.

What's really weird, is my neck is actually kinda painful today... it feels like I have pinched nerves right at the joint where the neck meets the spine... and a few pinched nerves lower down my back... I guess I will have to go to the doctor after all...

When I move my neck around I feel a slight pinch.. it feels like I just need to pop my back really bad, but I can't make it feel better myself. Hopefully it will go away by itself, otherwise I'll be at the doctor this week.

I did a few ebay/autotrader searches, and a car with 166k miles sells for about $2000, but that doesn't take into account my brand new motor...which if you play your cards right, can add in... I guess I will have to see how this unfolds, and it's really pissing me off, since I was really hoping on having the v6 AND the v8.... v6 with Doward's turbo kit, of course

V6sucker

A V6 3rd gen... is no collector car. Which is what your friend probly played his nova as.

Performance bolt on's is one thing.. replacing stock for stock... does nothing for the value of the car other than bring it where it should have been in the first place.

ScrapMaker

from the info you have told me so far, I know for sure that the car is totalled... because looking at the damage--I could hardly fix it myself for $1000.

V6sucker

you have got to be kidding...
you cannot get a used set of fenders and a hood for 1K?...

whatever...
man I do not even OWN the car and have more faith in repairing it than the owner...
by your replies you sound like you do not even want the car anymore... So try to make friends with the adjuster... though telling him about the new this and that is a catch 22, he may raise the "value" of the car, forcing repairs, but not telling him may get the car totalled, but you get less money.

That is why I own a truck... some jackass does that to me, they get smacked...and a butload of damage and I barely get a scratch.

PhLaXuS

Holy crap, man...are we being picked off one by one? Lots of wrecks lately and most of them not the fault of any of the drivers here.

Sorry about the wreck...and if your neck feels weird still, DEFINITELY go to a doctor. Get a checkup because they may find something you don't know is screwy yet.

I've a source for ~$80 fenders...

Doward

Irregardless of what anyone here (including myself) says, the final call is yours.

We're just letting you know, that the car does not look like it's that bad - the insurance co will just write it off, because a V6 thirdgen is still a dime a dozen. It's quicker, with less hassles that way.

Something you should know (at least here in Florida, I know) about insurance companies -

They will make it out like you HAVE to take what they give you.

You have the option of -

Fix the car (they HAVE to make you happy)
Cash for the car (they pay you to shut up)
Replace the car (they buy you a new one)

Personally, I would unbolt the fenders/nose, and look. You know inside, whether you want to keep the car or not, and that'll answer your question as to what to do.

As far as the fenders sticking out 3 inches - There is a brace in the front corner of each fender - if it got nailed (obviously, it did, lol) then it will shove the fender out. That looks to me, like why it is sticking out.

As I said, tho - your call.

ScrapMaker

What I meant, is if I went through a dealer, I could not get the parts for anywhere near the price of the car... which is why I know for sure they will claim it's 'totaled.'

I think I'm just screwed.

When I was looking at replacing my front bumper, passenger GFX, and passenger fender... I spend about $600 on aftermarket stuff... didn't even fit right. I can't imagine what quality parts would cost. This wasn't even including paint. Which they will have to paint my hood and passenger fender for sure, if not the other stuff as well (obviously not the entire car.)

What sucks is I know it's going to be a lot of trouble to fix the car all up for under the price that they will allow. I guess I will find out in the morning. sigh.

ScrapMaker

here are some daytime shots.







If my radiator is shoved back about 4 inches, can anyone give me a few ideas of what parts will need to be replaced in the nose area of the car? Let's assume that the subframe is fine, what do you guys think?

Obviously I can get the fenders from a junkyard, and the hood may be a bit harder, since those are usually junked by hailstorms... so we'll see. I definitely don't want to go aftermarket again, as that was a pain in the ***, and didn't fit up at all, even after re-drilling half of the damn holes.

PhLaXuS

The passenger's side does not necessarily look as though the frame is screwed. Can you post a pic or two if the driver's side damage?

When I got my Camaro, the hood wouldn't close without a real fight and the driver's fender was crumpled pretty badly. This was the result of a direct low-speed front end collision where the former driver rear-ended a car at a stop light. I pulled the rubber nose off the car and found that the passenger's side bumper mount was fine, but the driver's side was smashed in 3" and down 3" These look as though they are crumple zones. I parked the car next to a tree & used a hoist to pull the damaged mount out and jacked up on it at the same time to bring it out to the proper level. I got it within about 1/8" of stock and threw everything back together. I had to replace the hood latch which bolts in front of the radiator. Now everything aligns properly and all it really cost was the replacement driver's fender and the $10 or so that I spent at a junkyard for the replacement hood latch. I don't think it's too bad of an idea to remove the fenders & nose and just check it out. It will also make for a more accurate estimate at the body shop as they can get a better view of the damage.

Just take care of that neck if you decide to work on the car...and post a driver's side fender pic if you have it.

Gumby

If your set on having a really cool car. Save for a TTA.

You can find V8 cars for sale cheap all over from the gas prices. You really don't want that expense now in a daily V8 driver. Now if it will be a weekend most sitting car, sure. Get the GTA. Id fix the 6 and save more.

ScrapMaker

So the GTAs don't get near their rated EPA mileage? like 26 highway?

if it's a huge difference... maybe I'll just let them fix it, and I'll keep the car a bit longer, keep it as my beater/higher-mileage car.

ScrapMaker

KED85

This is so easy to repair.
How I know?
I did exact same thing driver side.
Headlight assmebly & a fender & I'm out door for my cost of $85. I didn't even need to change the motor, cause the original one worked PERFECT once freed from tension of "new setting".
Incidentially, I got ya free flat hood & that necessary fender in not too bad shape.
Fender available after I remove it and I score a better one for myself. That necessary fender will cost ya, tho, but it is rust free. And a GM fender, too. You drill holes for the ground effects stuff.
Hood available in a one day.
You come get it. Or send me a big box for shipping stuff.
Parts to repair will cost ya to $3600 from estimate. I used costs supplied from Classic Firebird catalog. They were accepted costs, too.
I already have a spare hood (which is why I'm offering mine, for free, but you come get it).
My current hood for free ain't bad, either. As in compared to yours.
Email me for pics & stuff.
Your repair is so easy.
Doors dumped on due to alignment of BODY panels, NOT frame. I know.
ALL this stuff easily availalbe in wrecking yards by ya.
Just go get it.
Peel back your current car (bad sheet metal) to see what ya need.
It all comes off real easy! And goes back together real easy, too. Just get a BUG bag for bolts to be removed and take digi pics for way it all goes back together.
Insurance will try to total your car.
Your call.
Easy repair.
Time consuming, but so easy.
My hit was driver side. My passenger fender has some little dings, not to my liking. Which is why I'm seeking a better choice for my needs. But this fender would work out well for your needs.
Hood looks near perfect. It's flat hood, too.
Give an email shout if ya'd like my stuff.
With saved money ya still in running for that GTA, too!

TomP

Yeah, that's not totalled... unless you want it to be.

But keep in mind that I literally totalled MY car... by going under an illegally-parked pickup truck. So I stripped my car to a frame, and bought a barely-running '84 parts car- and stripped that one down to a frame also. Then I had them towed to a shop.

End result: My '86 had the complete front subframe from an '84 car welded on by the shop, and they put the '84's windshield onto my car too. Then I put my car back together (including the whole heater box from under the dash- ugh), put on the fenders, doors, headlights & hood from the '84, scrounged up an '86 front bumper, did bodywork, had it painted, etc. So to me, nothing is ever totalled, unless you want it to be.

Hopefully they don't mark it as your fault at all- without even knowing what really happened, everyone always thinks the sporty-looking car caused the accident.

ScrapMaker

Wow thanks for all the input and offers!

You say the estimate was $3600? They wouldn't obviously give you that much for the repairs, would they?

I called my insurance this morning, and they are giving me an adjuster on my end to help with the process, and the other person's company just called me. Went to voicemail for some reason.

I was looking at the frame and I *think* it's okay... but definitely there is extensive damage to everything that bolts up the subframe.

What are those metal panels called that run behind the fenders? When I had my fender off before, it was like there was a secondary fender/body panel that was there to hold the fender in place. It's where the top of the fender bolts onto, and where the hood bolts to as well. That peice looks pretty bad.

From what I can tell, I need both new fenders, bumper, bumper innards, hood, all mounting hardware, and I think a new vacuum canister. Pretty much anything between the subframe and the outside of the car.

ScrapMaker

Hell, if I can get that much money for the repairs... I could easily fix it myself for much cheaper, and like you say, put me closer to my GTA... then I'd still get to keep my little v6!

Basically I'll have to wait until both insurance companies review my car's condition, and maybe a few private-party estimates... THEN I'll start ripping down the front of my car.

I had to pull the front of my car apart before, when I knicked a railing (just tore the front bumper support, and dented the pass fender --- that's why they're black-- at 5mph) nothing was damaged internally, and even my foglights were okay.

You have to realize my discontent for this car though. Here are a list of things wrong with this car:
- Dings all over the place
- Paint in crap condition
- Tranny limping on it's last leg
- Engine needs new head gaskets (not big deal.. but I don't understand how a 2-year-old motor already needs that...)
- Interior is shot--from steering wheel, dash, carpet, seats... stains tears etc... previous owner was an animal or something.

Basically what it comes down to, is I really love this car... but you have to use common sense, which way will I be better off? If I get $4000 somehow, then clearly that's more than I could have sold my car for a week ago. I should count my blessings, and move on.

The part where it gets tricky, is if they start trying to say I only get like $1000! If that happens, I'll have to obviously try for more money, or go another route.

I'd love to have this car in great condition and the GTA (or TTA ,) but basically I just have to wait and see. If I go to pullin' all the panels off, the adjuster might frown upon that and screw me over.

It would rock if I could get money to fix it myself, AND have a few $k left over to put towards another car... still would have been better off not having this stress though... /obviously.

ScrapMaker

oh, so you gave them the estimate of parts of $3600, and they gave you that much to fix your car?

or did they say that was how much is was going to cost, which in turn, would have 'totalled' your car, giving you only like $1600?

I'm basically wondering how I should handle the whole "insurance thing." I've never been in an accident before.

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

I got all my receipts when I got hit and gave it to the adjuster. He ended up giving me double, and I got to keep the car! Definately get a layer on this one!

PhLaXuS

Yeah...having a lawyer makes the insurance company know you mean business and it makes it MUCH easier to get whatever you want. They have lawyers working the back end to give you nothing so why not get a lawyer on the front end helping you to even the score?

One of my friends found an online lawyer firm which will do one time reviews of just about anything for $35/case. I think a year fee is about $300 and unlimited consultations. He really likes them so they are out there if you cannot afford to hire a local suit.

ScrapMaker

Aaron, so you PAID to have it fixed, all by yourself, then the insurance paid you back later? (double the amount?)

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

No, the car was totaled, and they offered me $1200 for it, but I got to keep the car (with a clear title).

I had replaced the motor, tranny, rear, interior, etc and I showed them all the receipts. In the end (you gotta stay firm) I got $2300 for the damages, and I sold the car for $1200!

ScrapMaker

did you sell it to a junkyard or something?

This is pretty much what I want to do... get money for the repairs, and fix it for real cheap, and use the other money towards the GTA

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

Nope sold it in the WantAD (classifieds in NE)

But that was a 1984 Z28 with a built 350, T5, 3:23 posi, black interior, t-tops, power everything, etc. It needed a 1/4 after the accident.

As for a V6 car... they don't sell for much around here in good shape, let alone one that's been crunched. In fact, me and a friend picked up an 85 Firebird with a V6, T5, posi disk rear, power everything, PERFECT interior, but with door and 1/4 rot for the low price of free. The guy couldn't sell it for anything and it was sitting for years in the driveway for sale. Drove it home with a new battery!

So good luck on selling, but I think parting out is the best way. I know, it hurts, but I had to part out my Iroc when it was just getting too much to fix the damn thing!

ScrapMaker

I bet I could sell the motor for at least $800.

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

If you can find someone who needs a 3.1, definately!

ScrapMaker

I'm not very optimistic about all this... since I've had bad luck since day one with this car. Another reason why I'm eager to move on.

PhLaXuS

It's always a great feeling to revive one of these cars, but sometimes you realize it's not worth the effort and move on. If that's what you're thinking, I'd run with it. A part out will reap much more than an outright sale.

KED85

You know the final decision does rest with your.
All I'm saying is that it's not that bad.
I just did mine recently & it's sam as yours. Looks bad but not really.
Core support is what ya meaning when ya saying fenders resting on something.
Will this project take personal effort?
Sure
I had NOT collision on my ride so I paid outta my pocket. Insurance said I was 51% of accident but they not raise my rates.
And like I said, I got outta this hit for $85 outta pocket in wrecking yard parts.
And a day for most of the parts to be swapped.

ScrapMaker

what about paint?

Red1991TransAm

<<< works for an insurance company

having a lawyer slows things down and usually costs you more money b/c they get at least 1/3 of any settlement you get for your bodily injury. I've settled many bodily injury cases as I am a claim adjustor - more times that I care to count the person thought they were going to "get me good" or "show me they mean business" and they ended up getting less than what I offered them w/o the attorney.

as far as the car.. .it is most likely totaled
there IS core support and apron damage - you most likely need an entire front bumper assembly (cover, absorber, & reinforcement), rt fender, hood, and repair or replacement of the core support and right apron assembly.

Who is the other persons insurance company? Give me a shout if you want to go over any settlement they offer you and what not. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you my # @ work I'll help ya out in any way I can!

Red1991TransAm

Those are your aprons - they are part of your front inner structure - usually always on unibody cars they are welded together.

ScrapMaker

Thank you very much. I sent you a PM.

I definitely don't want to be one of those people who file frivilous law suits or anything like that. In all honesty, I just want to be reimbursed for what I had, before the accident.

My back feels much better today, but I'm hoping that at least their insurance company will pay for me to at least get *some* sort of x-ray or something. It would be horrible if I didn't feel any pain now, but there was long-term damage, (which I really seriously doubt I have any.)

Gumby

Soft tissue damage wont show on a xray. You need an MRI.
Don't wait for the insurance company to say its ok to go. they are obligated to pay, just go. Just go to the hospital and tell them you were in an accident. Get a full work up. You will most likley never see a bill. As the hospital will settle with them so you never have to pay. other wise most time when people get paid for the accident, they never pay the hospita their share.

Don't think your being a wimp or its not manly to see the doctor about it. It will get you later. Been there, still paying for it. Wait to long and your screwed. And it will haunt you forever.

ScrapMaker

Ah, so I should get an MRI. Thanks.

I hope I don't end up with a bill, because money is the one thing I'm definitely not made out of.