poopapooman

I have a 92 firebird w/ a 3.1 v6. I want to get as much HP as i can. I dont want to swap in a V8 becuse of gas prices and the work. I also dont want to be digging deep in the engine for a part that only gives me a few HP.

Im considering performance chips, headers, 2.5 +in. exaust system, Cold air intake, pulley kits, MAF Units or sensers, throttle bodies, airfoils, weight ruduction(that doesnt look stupid i.e carbon fiber) shift kits or anything that helps my tranny shift at higher rpms or anything else u guys can think of .

I am willing to spend $500 on a part that only gives me 15HP as long as its not to hard to install

If u guys know any companies let me know of them too

DustyJL

Welcome to the board. This question is asked by every new board member. Use the search tool and you will find your answers to what you can do.

TomP

I can knock a few off that list

Off-the-shelf computer chips don't do much, if anything. Most just delay the torque convertor lockup so your car "feels" more revvy. (To feel the TCC disengage, go above 45 mph on the freeway, keep your foot light on the gas so you're not accelerating, and gently start to press the brake pedal with your left foot- the TCC will disengage and your engine will raise about 400 rpm.) I'd vote instead for an aftermarket performance spark coil.

Airfoils don't exist for our intake; we only have one large (2 inch?) throttlebody plate instead of two side-by-side openings. So we don't need it (there's nowhere to put an airfoil!).

Your '92 doesn't use MAF, it uses MAP (manifold air pressure), so you don't have to worry about any MAF in the way! That's another bonus! And the custom-chip-burning guys say you can do more with a MAP computer than a MAF computer.

Tranny shift kits: Don't get the $25 B&M, it puts stress on other components. Go for the TransGo 700r4 kit (about $125 or so). The shift kit does not make your trans shift at higher rpms- it removes the "delay" between gears, which makes the trans shift faster and wear out less. (The delay was put in so the average customer wouldnt' get a neckache).

If you want your tranny to shift higher (or lower!), then you need the B&M Governor Recalibration kit. The governor is in your tranny tailshaft, and has weights and springs- when the weights fly out, the trans shifts. It's easy to do but you have to mess around with deciding which weights/springs work best. I forget the part # but if you call SummitRacing.com they can dig it up, just ask for the B&M governor recalibration kit for a GM 700R4 trans. Tip: Never tell them you have a v6, it'll confuse them! The v8 700r4 and v6 700r4 are, for all aftermarket purposes, identical inside.

Honestly too your camshaft has a lower powerband than the 2.8's... you'd want your 700r4 to shift at the top of its powerband. I forget the range (maybe another 3.1 guy can chime in here?) but I think you're 2500-4200 RPM? So you'd want your trans to upshift at around 4200 rpm at WOT.

Exhaust is definitely a good idea. I run the Dynomax Super Turbo catback, part # WLK-17493 from summitracing.com, but any catback should help you. Just make sure to do a catback (with new pipes) and not just a muffler.

But yeah if you click on "search" above, then click on "Advanced search", just put into the next screen what you want to seach for (chip, exhaust, etc)- but make sure you choose "v6 forum" instead of all forums.

Oh- one more item; you have 3.23 rear gears in your axle. 85-89 2.8 automatic f-bodies came with 3.42 rear gears. You might be able to swap in a rear axle from a junkyard for cheaper than having new gears ($200) installed (another $200)... but to do that you'll be messing with the brakes, so make sure you know what you're doing! 3.42's will make you faster off the line, and should improve RPM response (since you'll be driving closer to the start of your powerband), but you'll be revving higher on the highway (and using more gas).

poopapooman

thanks TOmp thats the kind insight im looking for.
I have a few questions though.... is it worth it to put a performance MAP in(if they make One)? Ive heard of shift kits that you can turn on or off while driving (incase i want to have a nice easygoing ride) can The trans go shift kit do that? im interested in puting headers along with a performance exuast. Pacesetter makes a 2.8L header but ive heard that itll fit my engine(except smog pump doesnt hook up), is this still a good idea?

thanks a lot if u have any more ideas then tell me(or companies that make these parts) . Remember money isnt much of a problem for me?

2_point8_boy

To go to a map system, you'll have to change the computer and harness wiring.

The "On/Off" shift kits aren't available for our cars as far as I know because we don't have electronic transmissions, it's either a shift kit or nothing since the On/Off function is a computerized feature.

Headers are a good thing unless you live in a state that requires Smog checks and visual inspections of the emissions components. By installing them, they aren't approved for the car and removing the AIR pump is technically a federal offense without an exemption for the modification, but no one goes that far with it.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

2_point8_boy, hes already got a MAP system, hes got a 92. if youre not against spending money, get better gears like a 3.42 or even 3.73 and a posi. you can still find the SLP take offs on ebay here and there. its a posi unit out of a 4th gen that will fit in our axles. you need 4th gen axle shafts though. i did it last summer, oh wow, it was a beautiful upgrade, no more pegleg.

installing roller tip rocker arms are a good idea as well. theres 1.52 and 1.6 ratio. if you get the 1.6, you need to find fiero valve covers, due to clearance issues with ours. a CAI wont hurt to do, the "home depot" way is the only way to go for us, there is no kit. there really isnt any proof as to whether a throttle body bypass is good or bad, youll get lots of different opinions, but search and you wont find a definite answer, lol. weight reduction is the best thing you can do. anything you dont want or need, ditch it, even the spare and jack if you dare to, lol. ignition upgrades are always a good idea, makes you more efficient, not necessarily more hp, but its good for any other mods you do.

do a search for specific mods you wanna get info on, not just in general, cause youll be reading till 2009, youll get better info that way.

and welcome aboard!!!!!!!!!!

2_point8_boy

Oops...my bad, didn't even notice it. Anyway, there's no such thing as a performance MAP, all it does is report Manifiold pressure, so there's not much room for improvment. If you plan on going turbo though it will be worth the investment to go to an ECM that can handle a 2 or 3 bar MAP, just so you can program for the boost.

poopapooman

thanks for the info keep it goin
----------
how much work is it too put in a new rearend w/ 3.42 or higher gears? Also, how much work is it to put better rocker arms in?

TomP

The Haynes 82-92 Firebird manual (find at a Pep Boys or autozone or etc) or the GM Service Manual (http://www.helminc.com, sometimes on eBay) will have directions for both of those, but basically:

- Axle: Disconnect driveshaft, disconnect brakes, disconnect rear suspension, remove axle, install axle, connect rear suspension/brakes/driveshaft, bleed brakes.

- Rocker arms: Remove intake plenums (upper & lower), remove valve covers, change rocker arms, **SET LASH ACCORDING TO PROCEDURE IN GM/HELM OR HAYNES MANUAL, reinstall everything.

But if you want an easygoing ride with performance... the two don't really go together...

poopapooman

bump

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I'm assuming you bumped this to get some additional opinions, right? I too am now running a '92 Firebird with the 3.1 (but with a 5-speed), and have been contemplating what to do with it as well. When you consider how much of a dog the Buick 3.8 engine is w/out the turbo, it soon becomes evident that boost is a must for the 3.1...

I've decided to stick with the 3.1, and have already pulled the heads and cam. The stock heads will be worked, and I've been discussing cams with various vendors. A Garrett turbocharger will eventually find its way in there, but for now, I'm simply focusing my attention on the valvetrain...

To make up for the torque loss, I'm going to remove a substantial amount of weight from the body. With a worked 3.1, six speed tranny, posi-rear (4.10 cogs) and turbo, I won't be settling for anything over twelve seconds in the quarter mile...

As for MAF vs MAP, I honestly prefer to work with MAF... but being the '92 didn't come with it, MAP will be more than sufficient. If you don't have any experience in burning your own chips, you can always have a mail order vendor burn one based on your specs.

Good luck with your build...

daves12secV6

iTrader: (3)

u do not want maf system on our cars if u want to run boost,it does work but is a serious pain in the ***.and dont install 4:10's on a turbo motor specially with a 5 speed,with an auto it is soso.but the car will go faster with 3:42's then the 4:10's with a turbo(the lower gears spool the turbo alot faster)

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The stock 5-speed will be tossed, and a 6-speed is already in the works from a previous buildup of mine. The gears in the new tranny have already been swapped, and 4.10's were specifically selected for the rear to match. Spooling will be no problem...

I've been tuning for quite a few years now, and although both systems have their benefits, I honestly find MAF much easier to work with. For now though, I'll be tuning the stock MAP system to see how far I can take it...

poopapooman

bump

poopapooman

bump

Project: 85 2.8 bird

easy on the bumps, could end up looking like virtual genital warts or something.

tomp tuneup, simple upgrades, suspension, & weight reduction.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

have you tried searching yet? youll will find everything that youre looking for, you just have to do a lil digging. it may not be the thing you wanna do, but it stops a lot of repeated posts. please try that.

poopapooman

i have tried digging but i most find is info on repairs for 3.1l engines not any performance info or tricks

Dizturbed One

the way you're sounding...

do a full tuneup for that thing

and then start working on the suspension, you'll be alot more satisfied with the money you spend on that car rather than dumping alot of dollars into scraping up the little horsepower these things offer.

but once you get some stuff underneath the car, MAN do they feel good on the road. these things handle NICE, and you'll get much more gratification than modding your V6 for power unless you're just a wrench monkey and will work on anything for no good reason (like alot of guys here, me included, lol)

Change ALL the bushings over to poly
Lower Control Arms & Relocator brackets
Adjustable panhard bar
Biggest Swaybars you can find, front and rear
Sub-Frame Connectors
Shocks in the rear, Struts in the front, and Springs all around
Steering brace
Strut Tower Brace
Torque Arm (if you want to go that far)

find a 3.73 posi rear with disc brakes and a master cylinder to match (maybe just a proportioning valve would work? haven't looked into it, but its as simple as that with alot of systems)

beat the crap out of that V6 and enjoy the gas mileage you get

poopapooman

it doesnt get that great of gas mileage though. about 18-20 mpg

Toehead

Ya, you just need to change the proportioning valve.


How difficult is it to install springs? My car could sure use some, and new shocks.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

if youre only getting 18-20 mpg, you better start w/ a full tune up, thats too low. and dont search for 3.1 specific, because anything you can do to a 2.8, you can do to a 3.1, well just about anything. all parts are interchangable between them though. oh and i cant believe i forgot this, FIRST thing you should do, well after the tune up, subframe connectors. they shouldnt be a modification, but a necessity.

poopapooman

i did a tune up in january. r u sure those v6's back then should be more efficient? ive been told that in those days the v8's got about 15-17 mpg's and the v6's 18-22mpg's.but i think it may have something to do with my service engine soon light. the car sound fine when running but that light goes on at high rpms and when the car shifts in 4th it seems to turn off. i think it may have something to do with the air regulation.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

i used to get 25 mpg w/ my modded 3.4. what all did you do in your tune up? and what code are you getting when youre SES light comes on?

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

Ive got a 3.1, just did a tune up, and it went from 15 to 18 mpg. Its all stop and go driving. I thought I was getting good gas mileage.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

what all was included in your tune up (specifics: plugs, wires?) and what codes are you getting?

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

Im not getting any codes. I was just making a comment to this post...


I replaced plugs, wires, coil, ICM, cap/rotor, etc.. Plus I cleaned the intake and injectors. It was a couple months ago. There may have been more.
I had just thought 18 mpg was good for my engine.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

lol oops, sorry grimmcs, didnt look at who posted, just read the post. lol oops. i think there was a post a while back on what kind of gas mileage people were getting. if you try a search for it, you may find it and see how youre sitting, good or bad.

poopapooman

i put on a new distributor cap, coil, rotor and quality plugs(forgot which company but i know they were good)

i dont know about a code b/c i never tried hooking up a dyno/computor(too expensive) to my engine.

well u said earlier u had a3.4 getting 24 to the gallon, u shouldnt even consider 4th gen engines they use way better technology, hell the new(93-present 5.7 l engines get better gas milaege than the old 3rd gen v6's!

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

the technology isnt on mine, since i use the 2.8 intake, fuel, and distributor setup. it looks exactly like a 2.8, just a 3.4 long block, so technology isnt a factor in mine. and im using the 3.4 injectors so its actually running rich, and still getting that kind of mileage. well i was till i took off the EGR, that dropped it quite a bit.

go to autozone, they scan codes for free.

heres the TomP tuneup

poopapooman

thanx any more info? lets bring this forum back to performance for my 3.1 L

also i found a guy on cardomain that also has a 3.1 L engine. he has many performance parts installed including headers, intake, engine components and a whole lot more. a lot of the parts were from edelbrock and i can seem to find any parts from that company for my engine. so i asked him and he gave me a vague response saying that my 3.1 is very close to the buick v6. but can anybody explain this or back hime up? just for refence his name on car domain is ferro2003.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Saying that the 3.1 is very similar to the Buick 3.8, isn't really saying much. A naturally aspirated Buick 3.8, during the early 80's, was considered a freaking dog. It ranked in the same category as the Cadillac 4-6-8. What made that particular Buick engine so great, was, the addition of its turbocharger. But then again, a turbocharger can make any engine great, especially your 3.1...

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

ok heres your performance list,

catback exhaust, the ones for the 305 will work for ours too.
pacesetter headers for the 2.8 will work, you have to remove SMOG pump if you have it
any cam, roller rocker, timing chain, valve spring, etc will work for your car if its for the 2.8.
any ignition component from the 2.8 will work w/ yours.
most v8 suspension upgrades will work for yours (not springs)
180 degree t-stat
custom CAI
posi rear diff w/ 3.42 or 3.73 gears, or whatever you like.

theres a good lil list to get you going. now, that said, ive gotta ask, have you tried searching yet, it seems that you just keep asking for it all to be given to you on here. please, if you havent searched yet, try it.

poopapooman

ive been searching in the meantime, but iv found people on this forum dont mind wasting their time w/ other peoples problems(i dont know Y) but i might as well take advantage of it.

poopapooman

turbochargers r too expensive

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I'm not talking about a turbo installation kit, I'm talking about custom fabricating your own. I would honestly focus on the vehicles weight, suspension and gearing... while studying up on turbo chargers. The most difficuly part (if difficult at all), would be mounting the turbo on the exhaust manifold, as well as fine tuning it.

You can pick up a used turbo from just about any application for dirt cheap, either on eBay, or in the boneyard. Just pay careful attention to detail, and you'll have a V8 slayer on your hands. There are a lot of board members here who've done exactly that, and I'm sure they'll lend the best advice that the web can give...

I'm in the same boat as you with my V6. However, I refuse to swap a V8 into this one. I've considered going with a 4.3 turbo from a donor Typhoon (with ECM), but the ones that I came across are way too much money. Besides, a ten second 3.1 V6 steet legal Firebird (w/turbo of course) is extremely rare (I personally have never seen one)... which in turn makes me want to build one.

The best advice that I can give you, is, concentrate on the valvetrain. Your heads is where the true power is made. You need to determine your dynamic compression ratio, duration, lift and flow, ahead of time (before you even build). The stock intake manifold can be ported out, as well as the stock throttle body (his is something that you can do, for cheap). Your already aware of the Pacesetter headers that are offered, and any competent muffler shop can fab you up an exhaust system to compliment them...

poopapooman

so the high price of a turbo charger is only b/c of the housing?

poopapooman

bump

Dizturbed One

thats bad gas mileage, there are other issues to be dealt with on that motor.

i average 23 mpg overall and get 26 on the freeway... and that's with 3.73's in the rear. im somewhere around 3k on the tach at 70 mph, which is normal cruising speed around here.

my stop and go mileage is probably about 18 mpg

I got like 6 extra mpg which was wringed out from various components needing a change (including new tires and an alignment) along with a full tune-up and tune.

edit - although i do more freeway driving than anything else. i'd still expect to see 21 to 22 average with alot of stop and go, not to mention anything with an auto is probably getting a bit better mileage.

poopapooman

bump

2_point8_boy

Well, I don't know what you should do with the car, but I do suggest that you stop bumpping this thread. With a total of 39 replies, I think you're done getting information from posts without taking the time to sift through all the stuff that you get with a good search.

one wheel peel

in one of your first few posts you said money was not that big of a issue? then why even mess with the 3.1? with some of your plans for your motor you can easily drop in a stock 350 for less then all the headach your wanting to do. i dont see the reasoning mpg not that big of a diff to justify it imo. im not busting your ***** just wondering WHY?

yupitsdadsbird

imo. dude just wants all the workin done by someone else. hell he probly can't change his own dist.
I mean is he lookin for us to give prices and labor time too?

and on a side note the buick 3.8 is no dog once you start workin it, I spin tire into 2nd on a 85 4-door cutlass

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I spin tire into 2nd, yeah, but what does that prove though? What's your 0-60, quarter mile, and trap, with that '85 four door cutlass? I'm not saying that the engine can't be modified, as any engine can be. However, the 3.8 engine can only take you so far, performance wise, without the one thing that put that 80's engine on the score-board, the turbo...

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

where are the mods to lock this.... like weeks ago??

yupitsdadsbird

it's not a car I take to the track, it's a family car. and I'll admit it was a dog when I got it.
it's got open air cleaner, cap/rotor wires plugs, flex fan, smog delete, solid motor mounts, no cat, glasspack.
intake, carb, dist, coil. next.

I mean that there is really a place to start with on anything. am I right

Dizturbed One

why do you guys want to lock his thread?

this is what this damn board is for... he already said he tried searching, but all he came up with is maintenance.

there was good convo going on in here, leave it alone.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

ok, first off, this is NOT what the damn board is for. were not here to repost the same crap over and over. mods for the v6 have been posted time and time again. if you read the first post it says how to get the most out of his v6. it starts w/ maintenance. if you do a search for performance and take the time to read through all the BS (since this has been posted too many times) youll find a lot of good info. if newbs would take the time to read the FAQs, then new people on here wouldnt have to search through BS like the tons of threads that are on here.

im not trying to come across as a d!ck or anything. but its annoying to anyone whos been here more than 6 months and has to come on here day after day and see new posts about the same kind of crap over and over. it seems to have come up more and more lately.... and no offense, but the mods dont seem to have done anything lately, are they even around? wheres techsmurf when you need him, lol.

2_point8_boy

Yeah, I agree with drdave88. At this point, the info that he's going to get is all the same as what's been posted here a milllion times. All he keeps doing is bumping it to the top.

This is the reason that I visit these boards much more rarely than I used to. 3 years ago it was people asking questions because they had problems with their car, but a search had run out of leads. Now it's the EXACT same question all the time..."what's available for my car, performance wise?" And the funny thing is that most people don't even have a reliable base to start from. People that currently have SES lights on in a stock vehicle are wanting to install a turbo.

And I kind of agree with drdave88 on the absence of the mods. I like doward, who is the one who's really running the show, but I havn't heard from him in a while. It's a lot to handle and he's all by himself. I'm sure he does his best, but there has to be some kind of presence.

yupitsdadsbird

you gotta remember todays sociaty is my car needs to be loud and have alot of bump bump, who cares if it smokes or leaks or even stall