ScottieB

Ok, so I have decided to build my 2.8. Total rebuild, all new components. Why build a 2.8 and not my 383? Because I want to see how much horse I can throw into a 2.8 and get some money racing other 4's and 6's and some 8's on the parkway... they think I won't have a chance, hehe.

Ok, heres what i have:

stock 2.8 FI 89' and ecm, everything that came in my 89' RS. 3.27 gears i think.

Ok, here's what I want to do:

Cam & Lifters: Edelbrock .420/.442 Lift, 253*/263* (do i have to do any major mods?) Is there anything bigger? thats all i really found for a 2.8. Well, either that or a .420/.442 and 204*/214*. and a couple smaller ones. its idle to 5500 i think, or idle to 4600. i want about a 4500 to 5500 cam. nothing that will wrap it into red.

crank: any way to toss a 3.1 or 3.4 crank? or should i just shave it 22/22? Anything special i should do to it?

pushrods: should i go with stock? or up it some?

bearings

pistons and piston rings (speedpro or keith black, any other ideas?)
*bore and hone* 40 over
Anyone have a dizzy that is better than stock? i saw a post... i can't remember where?
Headers: pacesetters - mid tubes
going true duals... i think flow masters, anyone have better idea? 2 1/4, 2 1/2, 3"??
New/Better timing chain. i tried for double roller, but people say they hit the timing plate? any ideas? i don't want the stock plastic crap! (i saw once in jegs/summit, but when i called, they said it hit the plate)
msd ignition coil
roller rockers for cam
retainers and springs for cam (i can't find this in jegs/summit)
anyone have a chrome dress up kit for this 2.8/3.1? I want valve covers for sure... hopefully Chevrolet or Edelbrock (i found some edelbrock), but a whole kit?

New/better throttle body? anyone have ideas? 3.1, 3.4 works? any better? I have a spare 2.8 throttle body that i can play with... as well as a spare plenum and upper intake that i can play with and stuff... any ideas on how i can get better air flow?
Forced CAI + K&N cone air filter
MSD Plug wires, Upgraded plugs, MSD 7A
Fan switch (177* on, 166* off)
160* t-stat
posi and 4.10 gears
high volume oil pump

anyone have anything else? I'm going to balance the connecting rods myself unless they are too bad to mess with.

My total for parts added up was about $850 but I know that it will be more as I am always adding new stuff (such as the valve covers and chrome stuff), and another $350 to do machine work and head work. I plan on painting the engine Jet black and have chrome timing cover and valve covers, maybe a few other things chrome if i can get ahold of them.

Also with the heads... would heads off of a 3.1 or 3.4 work? what about 3.8? what would i have to do? would they flow better? what about compression. Or should I just get my heads ported and polished? I assume they are aluminum. LB8 engine code "S"

I am going to keep my 2.8 block and build this stuff... so don't say "go the cookie cutter approach, blah blah" v8 crap. I have a v8, this is for my v6.

Any reason to get 19-40 lb. fuel injectors? Stock are... 15 lb, right?
I plan on getting some PROM burns... so don't worry about that.
This will be in front of a built 700r4 (auto of course, not t-5). Yes i know, for a bigger cam, go t-5, but i'm going to keep my auto and pedals. that's not going to change.

Should I get a small stall? I also want a trans brake.

Anyone have any ideas on where to get retainers and springs?

Most of the stuff will come from Jegs/Summit catalogs, is there anywhere else (online) to get good quality and long lasting parts?

Any feedback (besides toss in a v8) is appreciated! Also, I want to build up this 2.8, not a 3.1 or 3.4 or 3.8... because I want to say I have a small v6, 2.8 and see how good it sounds. if it flops, only 1000 down the drain!

Thanks!
ScottieB

edit: i'm also doing the freeze plugs and oil ... not plugs, but the oil somethings. i'll edit again later. Everything on block is going to be replaced, sensors and all.

2.8RS

iTrader: (5)

To answer a few questions:
Edelbrock only makes chrome valve covers, I belive that their cam is only for carbed motors.
3.8 heads won't work, different block, and I'm not sure about 3.4 heads but 3.1 heads for sure but I think they are the same as 2.8 heads.
You will have to port your TB. I dont't think that there are any aftermarket ones.
For exhaust the Pacesetter headers are 2.5" pipes.

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

Your 2.8 has the same heads as the 3.1/3.4 cast iron heads. I would just P/P them.

ScottieB

thanks for the info guys! I'll check on the edlebrock if its for carb/fi.

anyone else have anything to add?

thanks!

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I picked up a cam from Delta Camshafts, got it for $100 with lifters (re-grind). They also have new cams for $125 + $40(lifters).

talover111

why waste time on a 2.8 they are junk if you really want to stay with a six banger why not search out for a 3.8 v6 (not a 3.4) out of a 95 and up 'bird a go from there
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dont get me wrong ive had my share of 2.8s when they run they are ok i guess but you have to be caeful with them me myself id rather have a 3.8 if i had to have a v6

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

That would require a transmission swap also .
Also what do you mean "be careful"? The 60* V6 came from the factory with forged rods and crank that is rated to 7200RPM.

Kevman

"Also what do you mean "be careful"? The 60* V6 came from the factory with forged rods and crank that is rated to 7200RPM."

Yea, then they snap and go right through your block.

Like, I know this is the V6 forum and all, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But for the amount being spent, plus time, and all that other fun stuff that happens when you build a motor, wouldn't you save by building a 350? Not only will it give you the horsepower you want, but it would raise the value of your car exponentially. It just makes more sense to me, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I didn't say they are indestructable (and the factory forging is not like 4340). There are a number of people getting 2-400HP out of these stock bottom ends without a problem. Did you experience a broken rod in a 60*?
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Then why are you wasting your V6 owning/driving time talking to us V6 enthusiasts and telling us how crappy our engines are (yours included). Either way you are off topic of what we thought about scotties idea of an engine build.

Kevman

I'm not saying they're crappy. That was not said once in my post. I like my v6, as it runs and does the job it's supposed to, get me from point a to point b.
I've built a motor in my lifetime, and I know how hard it is to do, and how expensive high performance parts are. I'm sure it would be a great learning experience building a 2.8 V6.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

My 60* went to 7000rpm when i was done with it on a stock bottom end and it didn't have any problems. The damn transmission went and the body was too rusted out to justify putting another one in. A 3.8 is just as much work as a 350. Go with an awesome 2.8 build. Get the right parts and make it with a 7000rpm redline. Have some fun.

weston19

OK, you clearly have done little reading or reasearch at all. After Kevman told me of this thread, i felt it to be right to tell you this. First of all, your starting off in the totally wrong spot. The 2.8 is a pile. Ditch the iron heads, they flow like garbage. Upgrade to a gen 3 3400 block or 3500 motor. Both will bolt up to your trans. The 3400 offers better oiling, thicker cylinder walls, The heads flow 1 million times better than the gen 1 or gen 2 60* stuff, and all around its a better motor. The 3500 is a little trickier but im advising it because A-You need a custom crank trigger to run it anyways, so either way you need to do that. The heads flow even better than the 3400 stuff, and again a step up from the 3400. You just need to be carful, there 3 or 4 different versions of this motor and some wont work. Theres a guy on my wesite, hes building a 3500, and is projecting 300 horse with stock internals, a cam, ported heads and headers, along with a few other things. Other people are seeing easily 350 out of 3400's with a few bolt ons and a snail. Visit www.60degreev6.com and www.v6z24.com for more indepth v6 info. Seeing as we cant toss 350's in our cars, weve been getting engiuitive and doing motor swaps. So far a stock 3400 with a 5 speed in a 2nd gen j body is seeing mid 14's easily, and the we can still run the factory computer. A tuned memcal helps.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I agree, and thanx for the heads & roller rockers redttop!

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Whoa there! What RWD car came with a 3500? It's a major project to get a FWD motor in a RWD car. HOWEVER, a 3.4RWD can be easily used. I agree with you on the flow of the top ends and am in the process of collection parts for a hybrid 3400/3.1 now. It's not as easy as people think to even use aluminum heads in a RWD because we are stuck with a disributor(using a 3.1/2.8 block) but swapping to a 3.4 block can eliminate the need for the dizzy. I am a member on 60* (ForcedFirebird). What is YOUR website that you mentioned?

weston19

No car rwd car came with a 3500 or 3400. Whats the problem putting it in? You dont need to use a dizzy. Swap a jbody ecm in and have DIS, with spark advance controlled by the ecm. lol its a much easier way to go. You will need to get a crank trigger as i mentioned, and figure out the timing chain cover. But The Raven on 60*vs has a rwd jimmy with a 3400 and a snail on it. I dont remember all the details of what was required, but it isnt that bad. he went with dis too. Dizzy's are ancient tech. Dis is the way to go, so if you really wanna swap a alum head 60* in why not make it dis while your at it?

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

You need to swap the fwd pistons in with the fwd (aluminum) heads for the 3.1/3400 hybrid.

With the 2.8 build, are you planning on keeping it na or are you going to do a power adder?

Kevman

If he's spending a grand on the motor, I'm sure ECM and coil packs would only be a fraction of the cost, especially if picked up from a scrap yard...

weston19

Sorry i also forgot about the starter motor. Altough im sure theres a way around that too. its on the right side of the motor for fwd cars.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Not if you use 3400 heads and RWD pistons. With a little work, the compression can be lowered less than 11:1 (ok on pump gas with al heads) I'll post when the build starts.
Already went through this with Raven (known as Six Shooter here) it's more than the coil packs and ECM. Ther is an internal trigger and you need a way to reference cam timing.
Again, I've been having extensive conversations with Raven about how he did his build. You, my friend are wrong. He has a 2.8 block that is stroked and he is using a 3400 top end and had to have a completely cusom trigger system built to control spark. Even going to MegaSquirt with spark control and using a 3.1/2.8 block, I also am going to have to fabricate an ignition system.

Kevman

Ok, all of my beliefs aside, this motor COULD NOT be built for under 1000$ with boring done. I'll tell it from experience. You go to get one thing done, a bore and oil dip, but you end up leaving with the bore, oil dip, cam bearing install, crank grind, rod/piston assembly, balancing, and all that fun stuff you get talked into. IF YOU DON'T get it balanced, I don't care if it's a 460 ford with 500 horse, or a 2.8 with 300, your car will shake.( Which you probably already knew.)
That would come out to.. about 900$. Ok, you're left with 100. Head gaskets.. Would be smart to go FelPro, but I'm sure you could get some cheap ones for about 20$ a piece, total, $940. Heads? Scrap yard, find a beat up 3.4 sitting in a firebird already removed.. 140$.. $1080.. Pistons to go with those heads.. 80$.. $1260. This is not even a 1/4 of the motor. I'm sure you could skimp on some stuff, but in the end it will be over 3000$ to build it. Gaskets alone will run your budget up a hell of a lot. Thats why I'm just left confused at the choice to build a 2.8. But again man, whatever floats your boat.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

We agree on something! $900 even using the existing block will be tough even doing all the assembly yourself(especially if you pay retail for everything). I've spent $2000+ on parts to get my car boosted, cam, roller rockers, MegaSquirt, WBo2, etc, etc. Just to have the heads worked is going to be $350 by the time I'm done (springs, locks retainers, porting, and maybe valves). But I've done lots of JY V8 swaps over the years and am looking forward to seeing if I can push a 6 into the 10's. Yes, in the end it will cost more money per horsepower for the V6.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Actually after reading the first post again, this is definately going to cost more than a grand. Posi, MSD, stall converter, chrome, etc is going to get pricey.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

If it's going to be expensive already, perhaps you can get a custom grind cam for a little extra power and more rpms than the 5500? With higher rpms, I'd get some sturdier pushrods than the stock ones. Are you going to keep it n/a or are you thinking of putting som giggle juice into it?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Custom cams can be had from Delta for a very reasonable price, just got a regrind from them for $100 with lifters. New cams are $125.

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

That was more for ScottieB since it is his post originally. I'm curious about what exactly he's planning on his build. How much is he really planning on doing? It will be more than $1K, but I'm curious as to what he really plans on so can figure out a good estimate.

Kevman

Me and my father built a big block ford, and when it was all said and done with the heads being ported, and ground, the block being honed/bored, and all the balancing it was around 2100$ (CAD).

ScottieB

Wow, lots to reply here. Ok, I'm building a 2.8 because i want to build up a 173 for fun. that's it. i have a 383 built up for my street racing v8. Help me build up my 2.8, there are lots of other threads for 3.4/3.8/4.3 v6's... i know.

Now, with the 2.8L reply's:

The Delta cam + lifters: Do you have a link? or a book to buy them out of? what is the duration @ .050 and the lift?

I would love to toss it up to about 7000 rpm, but will settle at 6500 or 5500. Will this Delta cam be better than the edlebrock?

I had my transmission rebuilt with by a certified shop, the owner races as well and was happy to build it to last a long time, even with my foot in the pedal.

Kevman:
I said I was spending about a grand for parts. the labor and everything my buddy that owns a machine shop is doing the rebuild with my ordered parts.

Power adders? Not yet, my 383 has the power I race with. This is just to **** off v6's and 4-bangers (the slow and the furious exhaust). And to have some fun seeing what I can do with a 173

FirstFireBird: I left some stuff out: I already have the posi & gears, and msd 7a.

RedTop5Speed: The giggle juice will be a few months away

My totals are less than $1000 for:

Cam/Lifters $150
Retainers/Springs $? $50-75
Roller Rockers $65
Timing Chain $25
Headers $215
MSD Ignition Coil $45
Distributor (I may use a replacement stock... getting from a buddy, so not counting in on total ~$130 from o'reillys)
Pistons $? $50-100 or so, brother in law is getting them. They are name brand, he knows his pistons... he built a 350 into a 415 and it puts out over 750 horse w/ nitrous. He drives a 406 SS camaro with 550 HP at the wheels.
FCAI $60-75 With K&N filter (cone)

Estimated Total: 660-750. Don't count the dizzy yet

Additional stuff if I have extra cash after everything is done:
MSD Plug Wires: $50
Lower Fan switch (166-177*) $40
High Volume oil pump $? up to $75 (regular pump: $20)
AIT Relocator $40

so the extras add up to 150-200ish. So right under $1000 with freeze plugs and bearings, all that extra stuff. The machine work will be $200 to bore and hone, and $150 for head work. I didn't put this into the parts. Sorry for any confusion.

For those people that say "well my work was more or less" sorry, this is what my buddy is doing it for me for. I trust him and that's that.

Let me know if I have not answered your question or need more input please!

This is a 2.8 project for having fun and seeing what I can do with my 2.8

Are there any advantages to high pound injectors right now? I heard the stock can push enough fuel up to 500hp. 15lb i believe. These are more of a "bolt-on" since it only takes 10 minutes to get to them.

Edit:
I will also need all of the smaller items... but i am getting them locally at the shop: Freeze plugs, piston rings, the small crap. push rods, etc.

The person asking about the gaskets:
I will get fel-pro or something better from jegs/summit

For head gaskets, I will use copper gaskets, don't know brand yet.

The chrome can always wait until later, since it is all easy to replace.

Connecting rods... anyone have a great set that are better than stock? Is there any change in horse?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Deltacams.com mine is a mild turbo cam, but they will grind any profile you request (just can't go beyond stock lift with a regrind). A brand new cam was quoted at $125 (+$40 for new lifters) for ANY grind. You will be better off calling to order, the site only lets you e-mail them for requests.
As far as connecting rods, you can use small block Chevy forged rods. Just make sure you get the small journal ones(from a 327) and shave the big ends (they're too wide for the crank).
And no, those 15lb injectors won't support 500hp!?
Here's a link to calculate injector size...
http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm
How do you plan on tuning for all the mods?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

To state your orginal question, yes you can put a 3.1 crank in it. Its 5hp/20tq. But then you have to change to 3.1 pistons as well.

I would have started all this out on a 3.4 block, but that would cost more as well.

ScottieB

i just plan on getting some chips burned. there is another buddy in town that can do it for me if i just pay the base cost for the chip(s)

pairtoe

iTrader: (4)

nitrous

Blue1989RS

I have the DeltaCams cam as well. I got the MAF cam for my SD car and is the .430" lift 206 duration. Complete engine rebuild was $340 with pistons/cam/pump/gaskets, labor for block was $400 with .060" overbore for line bore/balance/cam bearings pressed/honed everything/crank polished and reground, heads were $300 (?) for new seals/honing/bigger springs/3 angle/and assembly.

i spent about 1k on the engine (intake down) for mine. Everything else was extra! Check out my sig for more details. 3.1 crank in 2.8 block FTW.
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And, no change in horse for the connecting rods. Going to the SBC rods has been documented. They weigh more, but for the security its worth it. I didn't do it to mine because I'm trying to stay NA (but the turbo is calling me....).

RedTtop5spd

iTrader: (1)

Are you still planning on true duals? If so, that would be another $200 or so added to the bill. With true duals, I'd keep the pipes around two and a quarter.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

I was wondering about that, so GM put the wristpin higher on the piston so they could use the same rods (5.7") in both motors?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yes.

ScottieB

I already have true duals in mind, the whole kit my brother in law is still getting around to doing. It will be $45 installation and true duals from my brother in laws brother... i think anyways

SouLTeRRoR

So how much will this totally cost?

ScottieB

Alright, I'll get all of the receipts calculated up after I order everything. Without chrome stuff, it will be $1,000 or less for parts. Exhaust may be free from bro. Distributor may be free from bro. I already bought the posi/4.10 gears & MSD 7a. That's a few hundred that I save. The bored/hone/headwork/installation of true duals will cost ~$400 total. I expect 2 weeks for all parts to get in and get from around town after I receive my bonus check from work.

Short: $1,500 give or take. Up to $2,000 if you get better/more parts. But now think of it, this will be a 173 that FLIES!

with posi/gears/msd new... add another $500ish. But you don't need all of that, that's just fun stuff!

Also when I pull the engine, I may put a b&m shift kit in it (already have layin around). New struts/shocks/alignment. front and rear sway bars. I'm going to clean everything up and re-lube it, repack some bearings, etc etc while engine is out.

On another note, does anyone know where I can find another upper intake (the one below the plenum, on top of the lower intake) that goes up more? I plan on getting a cowl hood, so I may have to make my own (I have 2 upper intakes) or ask someone to engineer me one... but I want one that goes almost straight up for another ~2-3 inches so that i can take off the valve covers without taking off the plenum/injectors/upper intake.

Now guys, with all of these horse, I may have to get better injectors, so that's another $250 or so, but that is more of a bolt on.

Remember, its about $1000 for parts in the engine rebuild, $350 for machine/shop work. everything else is "bolt on" and I'm not too concerned right now The exhaust can always be a y-pipe until i get true duals. the msd/posi/gears doesn't have to be installed. You don't have to have all of these extras, but these are for me, and what I want. If anyone else see's something they like, go for it! But, buy all of the parts at once, and don't end up like one of those people that have 7 cams and 5 pairs of heads, 8 intakes, etc for 1 engine... lol. Buy all parts at once, try and see if you can get any money out of the old ones If not, give to local junkyard for an exchange of maybe something you like from a car.

SageMoonblade

Anyone know if there is a RWD 3.1 engine that uses the roller cam and lifters? If so could I get Make Model and year please?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, if there was I think we would have already been using them. I think Dale was working on making the FWD set-up work in RWD cars, but there was a problem with getting enough oil. Some of the guys here are going to solids. Do you have something up your sleeve?!

EDIT: The RWD blocks also don't have provisions for keepers (to hold the rollers in line with the cam)

SageMoonblade

well a few things maybe...... will ahve to see how it all comes out, i might just have one hell of a dumb plan.... in my case those usualy work....

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Well cough it up, more ideas = more progress. This is something worth listening to for the hybrid I am putting together.

SageMoonblade

Dont know how well this idea will even work but i was thinking the other night that by using a set of lifters from a small block mopar.... a version of the 318 is made where the lifters sit exactly the same as an Intrepid 3.3 that also happens to be a 60 degree v6 infact they are a direct bolt in but i dont have the money to test if the will work in our block or not. The 2.8 and 3.3 are a very close endine it isnt even funny, i know the lifter bore is the same and so is the height of our stock lifter to the 318 units even the deck heights are the same of the 3.3 and 2.8 as well as firing order and the crank pin size and bore spacing but i am not sure on lifter spacing or oil passages. The 318 also uses a lower pressure lifter then say a SBC. i dont have a spare engine or spare set of lifters around to try. will have to get with my buddy to figure out what the exact lifters he used were but i know right now he is using a roller set and pushing about 400hp on them with great presure and about 50k on that setup.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

If you are going through all that trouble, why not just modify to use FWD rollers in the RWD (I can't see the Mopar parts being cheaper than GM)? If you search some threads by Dale I think he explained the oil situation. IIRC, it had to do with the mains being starved.

ScottieB

Sorry for not responding sooner guys...

Here is my progress so far:

custom ground cam for my car, idle to 5500 powerband. I'm getting a torque converter... dunno how big, probably ~3k'ish. i'm also getting the lifters and springs custom from the same people... i think comp cams? i'll look at it when i order it tomorrow and tell you guys more. I'll buy all of the small stuff after i pull the engine. We are going to use 1.6 push rods, and roller rockers. Also headers of course. We are keeping the intake and injectors as is, and leaving the ECM un touched until we get ALL of our new parts installed and running properly. The FCAI will be mounted somewhere... i know of a good place, but i don't know about mud and stuff... so i may have to build a box around it, or use the head from a LT1/LT4 fcai setup. I am thinking below the air canister, where the cruise control ball is... somewhere around there, but maybe under the battery on the passenger side. if you look under our cars, there is a little plastic plate there with an "X" shape on it. i may just lengthen the CC line and put that canister below the battery and my FCAI below my air canister... or just move the CC ball wherever i feel like it... any idea's? I will still use my AC and Heater... this is a fun car, not a drag car.

I will install my MSD box somewhere in the engine bay too so it gets air... maybe where the stock air intake is currently? Anyways, i'll figure that all out...

But! The project has begun! i'll take lots of pictures upon starting the project and how it is going and just post them up on a site, and link it in here.

-- ScottieB

Feel free to ask any questions.

Also, I will be using my 2.8 block, not another block (3.1, 3.4, whatever) and not a FWD re-drilled. I know a lot of people will love to see what a 2.8 can produce that came stock in our cars, and that is one of the reasons why... on a descently small budget what can i get out of my 2.hate, 2.crap, 2.slowbate car w/o turbo/sc?

Well, in a few weeks i hope to tell ya!

djwimbo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am almost certain the series II 3800 will bolt up to a 60* bell housing. It's designed after the Pontiac 350 but share the 60* bellhousing, so a trans swap wouldn't need to be done. This is why 3800 S-II have also been swapped into 2.8 S10's, Isuzu Hombre/Rodeo/Amigo's w/ their 72* V6, b/c they were sleeping w/ GM at that time and shared the 60* bell housing(and many other things too). Unfortunately the 3800 and 3800 supercharged all share the fact that the intakes off of FWD (most common in junk yards) have the TB in what would be the rear of a RWD platform. Easy fix but good to know.

I'm all ears for a 2.8/3.1 build. I'd like to do one also- just for fun and bragging rights to "dude you got owned by a v6 camaro"

SageMoonblade

Also there is a fact here that nobody seems to have hit, the 3800 is a 90 degree engine, granted its a good engine (mostly do to the fact that it shares alot of parts with SBC) but as a 90 degree its less efficent as a V6 then the 60 degree that happens to be the optimal V shape for a V6. The 3.8 buick engine that is nearly identical to the modern 3800 had a problem at higher RPM it created a vibration that tends to damage internals such as bearings and piston pins. I am fairly sure that with some minor work that the 60 degree engines can reach a level far beyond the 90 degree V6.

sloviks88camaro

thats excatly what ive been wantin to do i have a 2.8l n i want to get some ponies out of it jus to have a fast fun v6 cuz all my buds have the v8's... but what trans u using the stock one just rebuild it???????????? i think its time to pull it and start adding parts

Maxboost

Everytime someone post about building a 2.8 or 305 they get" do a 3.8 or 350." Is there anyone that doesn't know the advantage of displacement? Now that being said,people build 2.8's and 305's because they want too. It's ok to say it's easier to get more hp from a 3.8 or 350,what dumb *** doesn't know that? It's not so much suggesting this or that, it's "they're junk or don't waste your time" that pisses me off. Instead of giving helpful advice the thread turns into a negative thing.Just to put things into perspective,guys with big blocks probably think guys with 350 are wasting their time.

SageMoonblade

Besides displacment isnt the best way to make power, for that either make more RPM or more cyl pressure. Both can only go so far but get more that way.