Popeye75

I have an 85 pontiac firebird with the v-6 and 5 spd trans. the car was sitting for 3 years and i've had my fair share of problems getting her road-worthy again. she's a nice looking ride, but i think i'm gonna sell her this winter to make room (and money) for the other projects i've got going on. Before she goes though... i'd really like to try to turbo this little motor! i've been reading on here what i can but i have no experience with turbo's so i'm a little lost, but not too far off i think.
when i was at the junkyard the other day i managed to scrounge up an intercooler off of an 80's volvo and the turbo off a ford probe. it seems they aren't too popular around here, but it's what they had and now it's what i've got. i'm going to cut the exhaust pipe after the 'y' and route it around the front of the engine, through the turbo, and then back to the exhaust where it was cut. seems straightforward enough. i know i also need a blow off valve and a fmu(to increase the fuel supply to match deman?) and i think i also need a fuel pressure regulator(doesn't the fmu handle this?)
my goal is too spend the absolute LEAST amount possible. i bought this car for almost nothing and i think i'm going to sell it off when the 30 day tag expires rather than register and continue to insure it(already have too many cars!). so that gives me til mid-october to have a little fun. so here's my questions:
1- will my stock injectors work with this turbo? not trying for MAX power, but some fun street driving=)
2- is there a fmu on the probe that i can install on my firebird? where exactly is it?
3- can i use the blow off valve from the probe? what does it look like?
4- what kind of power can i expect to get with this set up?
i'd prefer to get parts off the probe, or used where possible. i also looked for some injectors off a 305 or 350 from a caprice or chevy truck but couldn't find any. any other vehicles i can look in? was looking for 19# injectors or better, does that sound right?
i'll put up some pics as soon as i can!

Popeye75

how can i tell which size turbo i have?

project89

iTrader: (1)

there wont be an fmu on the car u would have to buy one

85 2.8 shouldnt that be a carb car?

looks liek u got urself a 16g turbo should be good for just under 200 hp
take a picture so i can see the entire cold side of the turbo

if its a 2.8 maf based car all u need for that lil turbo is a set of 19 pound injectors out of a 305 tpi car u wont even need the fmu

also ebay u can buy a cheap bov

dodger65

nope, 1st year for the mpfi v6 in the f-body, yes it is maf

86v6CP

the IHI is too small even for the 2.2 it came from so you will have great low end torque but it will run out of breath very quick. figure a 1500-3500rpm power band max.

project89

iTrader: (1)

thats not a mitsu turbo?

if thats the case look for a t3 unit of a turbo doge shadow or cyrlser newyorker/lebaron

Popeye75

very cool=) so all i need to make this work is the 19lb injectors and a blow off valve? if that's the case i may try to have this wrapped up by mid-week. anyone reccomend a blow-off valve? are there any mass produced cars that would have one down at the j-yard so i can just pick this up tomorrow morning?
wow, only 200 horses? what were these v-6's rated at from the factory? honestly i expected to come out a little closer to 300 i have a few more pics and i'll post them now. also i'll put up the casting #'s on the plate since you can't see them clearly in the pics. thanks for the good news about the ease of the job, too bad about the low hp #'s. i would look for a bigger turbo but the pickings are slim up here in albuquerque and i already have this one. i'm probably gonna grab another little one like this for my isuzu rodeo after i sell this car soon. 3500rpm limit on my truck wouldn't bother me, and the torque would be nice to jump up to some 35's

Popeye75

the plate reads:
Turbo Spec - VJ11 9004
Serial No. - RHB5 13016A
Parts No. - F220 B

also on the casing are the #'s
9Y22, 0306,
and
3
K
9L
52X
20RS

what do these #'s mean?

project89

iTrader: (1)

i dont know what turbo that is or how it compares to a garret t3 so i cant help u there, but i can tell u its tiny and will spool ultra fast

yeah 19 pound injectors
try to find a turbo talon or eclipse ur looking for a valve that looks liek this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1g-bl...QQcmdZViewItem

u will get nowere near 300 hp without some other mods and a bigger turbo

the 2.8 was rated at 120 or 140 fly wheel hp iirc

jon 89 RS

Hey so your from Albuquerque i'm from Roswell (havent seen many people in the boards that are from New Mexico) anyways i'm thinking about putting a turbo on my 2.8 and i don't know much so i'll be watching from the sidelines. keep us posted.

sorry if I sound stupid but i'm a noob at this,
just wondering u'll be using the stock exhaust manifolds right? ive heard they r pretty restrictive, so my question is how much of a gain would u achieve by getting or fabbing some custom turbo manifolds is it worth it?

DemonKnightDK

custom manifolds will probably run alot more than he's willing to pay. I would just get some pacesetters and run it the way you plan. even faster spool time.

I'm going to go with either a T3 or T4/T3 setup on my engine. (probably not the 3.1 honestly though. I just want to get it running, the get a 3.4 block and the uperhalf of a 3500 and turbo that sumbuck. (or a 3.8 from an old buick.. unless I can find one of those old 4.1 buick v6 engines..)

I'd also like to get an old S-10 or somthing with the 4.3 and put a mild turbo on that for a good boost in TQ.

project89

iTrader: (1)

stock manifolds will work just fine, they are better then mild steel headers for the fact they hold more heat inside the ex system

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Ive got a set(7) of ford 19lb injectors Ive been trying to get rid of. I got no need for them anymore. Give me a pm if you are interested. They wont be free, but they will be cheap.

The 2.8 was rated around 125-135hp.

Popeye75

ok, so a few more questions. i have to go back to the j-yard today to get a new hood, so while i'm there i'll look for the blow-off valve. are there any other vehicles that might have a blow-off valve i could use? also, if i found a t3 or t4 what kind of power could i then expect? i'm thinking if i can get a little closer to my goal of 300 horses then maybe i can use this turbo on my isuzu rodeo and try for a little more power on the firebird. what cars would come equipped with a t3 or t4? how do i identify them? i plan on keeping the factory exhaust manifolds on my car, adding the 19# injectors and the blow-off valve, but will i need to do anything else if i step up to the t3 or t4? last, i thought i need the 19# injectors off a chevy motor? can i use injectors off of a ford or anything else? this has proven to be the most difficult find so far for me. =( (will the 19's cut it if i step up the turbo?) thanks for all the help so far guys, i really appreciate it!

project89

iTrader: (1)

with a t3/t4 turbo u can run the 19's upto 7 psi

the chances of u finding a t3/t4 turbo in the boneyard is very slim unless u find a grannational

the best yard turbo u would find would be a 60 trim t3 off a crysler car

u can check volvo turbo and saab turbo cars for the same bosch bov found on the eclipses

or u can buy one form a parts store for 20 bucks

Popeye75

so which chryslers would have a t3? i asked about a blow off valve at auto zone yesterday and they looked at me like i was crazy. they actually found one but it was $120 to $460! if you know where to go and what to ask for i'd love to get a bov for 20 bucks. i got my intercooler off of a volvo, but where do you look on the cars for the bov?
if i upgrade to a chrysler t3, what gains am i looking at above what i have now?
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oh i forgot. i read in another thread that i should use a 3 wire o2 sensor? what years/vehicles should i look for? i plan on plumbing my oil line just using standard brake line from autozone(it's supposed to be real thin feed line, right?) and for the return probably using the same stainless hard line that people use for trans cooler lines. does that sound right?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I bought these ford injectors for a chevy 3.4l with a 3.1l intake. They installed and ran very rich for my setup, so they were removed. They will fit and work just fine on your 2.8. You will need to buy new o-rings, and an intake gasket set.

nixon5

Ill be doing putting a turbo in soon also so this should be cool to watch Dont give up!!! Get that turbo in and running.

project89

iTrader: (1)

a ful on t3 turbo will be considerably larger then that ihi turbo ur stillnot going to go over 220 whp with a t3 but it will get u close.

the bov will be a lil black valve pluged into the pipe going to the tb and will have a small vacum hose on it and a larger 1 inch hose that would run back down to the airbox/inlet side of the turbo. just lookup bosh bov on ebay and u will see what they look like

the feed line should ideally be 3 an line or the eqivalant in steel line

Popeye75

alright, i went today and i found a few things, so you guys tell me what's good and what's not. still no 19lb injectors on 305 or 350's. people take the entire manifold off and leave nothing. what i did find was a 3.4 out of a 94 camaro and a 3.8 on a 98 camaro. what size injectors are these? i also didn't find any turbo eclipses or talons, but i found a few volvo's with the blow off valve. one car was all there and it had an air box with the filter element in it and the big air tube coming out of it that feeds into the intake inlet(throttle body). i found a little solenoid mounted right before the throttle body, it had a 1 inch hose leading to the air tube that feeds the throttle body from the air cleaner(does that make sense?) and i found a round coupler that is the same size as the air tube(3, maybe 4 inches?) that says "bosch" on it and has a 8 or 10 wire pig tail connecting to it. which one of these am i looking for? if i need the larger 'bosch' air tube thing, how do i wire up the pigtail? i'll try to find a pic of it, but i doubt i'll find one. thanks for all the help guys, i hope to have this finished by the weekend.

86rsproject

Why don't you just put a v8 in your car? I mean "theres no replacement for displacement"

project89

iTrader: (1)

yes there is its called superchargersd and turbos

anyways this is what ur looking for

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bosch...QQcmdZViewItem

86rsproject

Eh not trying to bash i just like the rumble of the v8. If you do install a turbo you should put a screamer pipe on it. My friend has one in his mazda 6 and it sounds like a dam jet taking off, so sweet.

nixon5

you dont even need a bov compressor surge sounds better anyway plus its not like a good quality turbo your using. At 7psi i doubt it will make a difference

Popeye75

nothing wrong with a v-8. was teetering on the edge of dropping in a 350 i have, a 400 i found at the boneyard, or a sweet 455 if i could have found one, but i don't plan on drag racing this car now, so this turbo project sounds like fun.

at 7 pounds boost i thought i was supposed to run a bov? doesnt this relieve the pressure built up in the intake manifold? if i could get away with not running one i would, but is that safe or is someone messing with me?

what is a screamer pipe? i think the only thing i'm waiting on is the injectors, and i might have to hit up dale for those injectors. ford injectors... so off of like a 5.0 or something? theres tons of those at the boneyard.

what's the max one of these little engines can take as far as boost and horsepower anyway? like if i went with a twin turbo set up? not gonna do it on this car, but maybe a near future project...

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Look for a turbo t-bird. Those turbos are good to 15psi. Just about any buick 3.8 has 22 lb/hr injectors, I'd go with those. You need a bov so there isn't a buildup of pressure in the intake when the throttle snaps closed. You also need a rising rate fuel psi regulator so it doesn't lean out as boost increases. What's your plan for retuning the ecm? As far as what these engines will tolerate I've heard of healthy stock 2.8's taking a 150 shot of n2o and surviving, but gradually break it in on an old motor. Chances are your t-5 will barf before the engine.

DemonKnightDK

why not do a v8? because every body and their mother has a V8 fbody.

(And thats a new trans engine mounts, computer(unless swaping over to carb) possibly a new fuel pump..)

Some times people like to be different. That may be the true reason behind the I4 guys thinking that they have race cars.. they just mod what they have. (kinda like us)

Popeye75

ok, lets get this out of the way. if you want to build a v-8, great! i mean it, seriously. if i was gonna keep this car and go drag racing i would build up that 350 i have in the backyard, do twin-turbos and have a blast. i chose to do this motor because it's in the car and i bought this car for 200 dollars. so far i've paid 48 dollars for the turbo and 28 for the intercooler. THAT's why i'm doing a turbo, pure and simple. i absolutely believe that there's no replacement for displacement, and if i had a 350 i'd throw the dual turbos's on and go for MAX horsepower, but this is what i have, and when i get it running right i have no intention of keeping it but only of selling it off. if i put some time and money in this would be a keeper. if i upgraded to a v-8 and upped the boost it would be worth keeping. i don't want to keep this car. if you'd like to buy it from me and drop in a v-8 or up-grade the turbo then let me know a turbo or supercharger is just upping the displacement artificially anyway, so you guys are all right, but i'm trying to build power cheaply. how you get there is your business.

ok, i'm going to look for a 3.8 buick tomorrow, does mid-90's sound about right? like a 95 or 96 regal?

i'd love to use the volvo bov, how do i wire up the pigtail or am i looking at that smaller part? i really need to get some pics=(

thanks so much!! you guys have been such a great help to me! i promise to put some pics up as soon as i get this turbo set up fired.

nixon5

sorry for the last comment i forgot you had a t5 if you had an automatic you could get away without one. when you shift you let off the gas so the plate closes an the pressure just hammers the turbine makes a cool sound but it hurts the turbo alot.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Look for a mustang, crownvic, or ford truck with IIRC a 4.6l engine. It should have orange'ish looking injectors on top.

Or print this page out n take it with ya.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

DemonKnightDK

once you get it running how much you want for it

project89

iTrader: (1)

the link to the ebay auction i posted has pics of the bov u are looking for.

i dont know what u got but its not a bov bov's do not have elctrical conections on them
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do not install any injector in the car larger then 21# the car will not idle

Popeye75

alright, i got some injectors today off of a 4.6 thunderbird and i think i got a bov off a volvo(lol). i'll put up some pics here in a couple hours probably. now, i'm cleaning the engine bay up and some other details(reminds me, i need to put up some pics of the old girl!). got some new seats and a grant wheel for her too, but hopefully tomorrow i'll get this stuff all installed and by friday have all my welding done. just gonna take it up to a local muffler shop here on central and have them do it.

does anyone know what 3 an line is in standard stainless line? like 1/4 or something? also, what do i need for the return line size? once i get this stuff bolted up do i need to add any type of fmu or fuel pressure regulator after all or am i ok at this power level?

do i need any type of tuning for the ecm or am i going to be ok like this? can someone please put up a simple vacuum diagram for me and others that try this to use? like i see the 1 inch line for the bov comes off the air inlet tube right before the throttle body and then vents to what, atmosphere? where does the little vacuum line leading into the bov run to? how much of the vacuum line from the factory set up am i supposed to keep(like, what do i NEED?). i want to do the vacuum stuff right and avoid any headaches. thanks.

chevyracingrox

that thing is gonna have a lot of low end power and torque!!! its inspiring. maybe I'll be doing this someday. definitely subscribing.

Popeye75

Injectors from a mid-to-late nineties thunderbird




Not quite the same length=(


anyway, not the same length but i installed them any way and they seem to fit ok....
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Intercooler=)

chevyracingrox

that intercooler looks great.

I wouldn't worry about length of injectors too much, as long as they fit.

Popeye75

Alright, need a little technical help here fellas. I got these 5 little numbers down here, can you tell me what i'm looking at? is that solenoid-looking thing (#4) an fmu or something? this is off a 92(i think) ford probe. I believe #1 is the inlet and outlet for water cooling? if so, where do i plumb this off on my car? Is #3 the hose for the bov or is #2 or what? also, what's that electrical connector for?
also, on the 1st pic, all the way on the bottom-right there is a connection that looks like it's for an o2 sensor or something, what is that? i also only saw one connection that i figure is for the oil line, so where is the oil return? i'll post a pic of that up next.

Popeye75

project89

iTrader: (1)

1&1 look liek the water lines
2 is the wastegate actuator <gets hooked to the compressor outlet with a 1/4 inch line
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yes 2 is the o2 sensor

need a better picture of what u think the poil feed is

chevyracingrox

how would he feed water through it? stock radiator somehow?
what about ecm tuning? if he just changes a 3 wire o2 sensor will the stock ecm tune run the engine without other changes?
sorry to ask so many questions, but I just want to know.

I think that you have the oil feed correct, but don't just take my word for it.

Popeye75

not sure about the rest of the stuff, but my understanding of the o2 sensor is that if i get a 3 wire, you run the black wire to ground, the red to a "key-on" power source and the 3rd wire you just extend from the factory one-wire o2 sensor. sound about right guys? i'm not sure what to do about the water to the turbo yet. was thinking of running something from the circuit that cools the throttle body, but not sure about the hose size and stuff. any ideas?

so in those pics above, is #3 the hose that runs off to the bov?

chevyracingrox

I always thought the bov was on the tubing somewhere, not on the turbo. I believe you have the concept of a 3-wire 02 sensor down, but I haven't put one on yet so... I have no clue about running water through a turbo or if you even need to.
I really wonder if the stock ecm will run everything ok though.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i think #3 is the oil return, but its hard to tell with thos epictures.

u really need to remove all the lines form the turbo and then i can label each line for you

3 wire is one ground
one hot 12v and one to the ecm

he has a maf setup its good for around 7-10 psi without mods other then injectors

Gumby

YOu don't key the 02 hot all the time. Itsonly there to preheat the 02, once up to temp it doesn't need power. running it constant may shorten the life.

project89

iTrader: (1)

gumby i think ur thinking wideband all 3 and 4 wire o2's are 12v hot anytime the car is running, 4 wire is the same as 3 wire just an extra ground

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Looks like a fun project. I may have to pick up a v6 soon to have some turbo fun. I think the most expensive part would be the Turbo Manifold or the Y-Pipe.

BTW, Project89 if you dont mind me asking, how many MPG are you getting?

project89

iTrader: (1)

over 31mpg on the highway with the 4:10 gears

only around 15 mpg in town though, its so hard pulling away from stop lights without giving it enough to bring it into boost

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I do mainly city mileage. What do you get in the city? I am impressed by your highway miles though!

project89

iTrader: (1)

i edited the post above, its actually more then that but the only time the car has been driven in town is to and from the racetrack about 12 miles each way,so i cant get a real estimate on it cause not driving it normal

always changing things and giving it a few test pulls on the way to make sure everything is ok

but if it was driven normally it prolyl be in the mid 20's

Popeye75

ok, so here's where things are. i've been cleaning up the upper intake manifold and the turbo, they're ready to go on today. the injectors are in, i cleaned up the engine bay and i've been rounding up all the little parts i can. my plan is to use hard line for now, but an line might be worth looking into. i'm trying to actually get this turbo mounted to the motor, but if it were chasis mounted i think the motor flex would defanitely do a number on the hard lines. anyway, the feed line is going to be a 3/16(i think) steel line i got from auto zone. this is supposed to be equivelant to 3an from what i've been told. i also have 3/8 steel line for the return but i really wanted to avoid welding on my pan, so what i want to do is run the return line to the oil-dran plug in the oil pan and plug it in there. if anyone knows of a reason why i can't do this, please chime in. i need to get the vacuum lines on the engine sorted out and the cooler lines. i also need to rig up this bov, so any suggestions guys let me know. i'm going to put up some pics of the turbo clened up and from different angles in a few hours as well as the bov i have(off a 740 volvo i believe). when this is all done and running i'll put up some pics and all the specs and the prices so people will have an idea of what they're really getting themselves into if they try this after me. so far this turbo stuff is a lot easier than i thought, i was just intimidated because i don't know all the components and how they're routed, but you never know till you ask!