Project 3.4 Camaro

I got the timing in on it, or close as I can without it running long enough to fine tune anyway, but it always shuts off, it starts making some type of electric whine or buzz sound kind of like door ajar alarm thingy or fuel pump, cept its coming from the engine bay, once it starts its only moments before the engine shuts off. Also think it gets progressively louder till engine shuts off, at any rate, I think the two are connected, anyone got ideas??
Also of some note is it only runs for like 5s, unless I give it gas, I initially realized it might just need to idle faster, and shimmed the adjuster screw a little to see if that made the difference, runs longer but does the same thing...

racethesunlive

the buzz could be the motor in your IAC valve trying to work, try unplugging the IAC valve and see if you still hear the buzzing anymore

Project 3.4 Camaro

I may be wrong but I don't think the car will even start without IAC...

racethesunlive

If you jumper the A and B terminals like you were checking ses codes, and then wait a minute for the IAC to fully close... then unplug the IAC connector and remove the A B jumper you should be able to start and idle(not very smoothly though)

basically your performing the first half of the IAC adjustment in this tech article:

https://www.thirdgen.org/tpimod2

Project 3.4 Camaro

I don't know what terminals you're referring to, but I'm guessing you're talking about pins on the ECM connector? and am i supposed to do this with it running or what, and in what order, and how do I know if the IAC is closed or not??

racethesunlive

Sorry I wrote that pretty fast....

So if you jumper your ALDL connector, the connector next to your fuses that you use to flash ses codes (as explained in this article https://www.thirdgen.org/service-eng...ht-error-codes ) then turn your ignition to ON for 30 seconds to a minute, your IAC valve will fully close(it'll also make a buzzing noise while closing). Once you wait for the valve to close, turn off the ignition, unplug your IAC connector, and also remove the jumper to the ALDL connector.

Then try and start the car. Normally a car will be able to idle fine with the IAC disconnected in this way. if your car idles fine than the IAC is working at least somewhat properly.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I thought your engine block was cracked? How did you get by that?

Anyways, check to make sure there isn't anything obvious that's disconnected from the plenum such as the EGR. Also check to make sure everything is tight as it's supposed to be. Check the vacuum lines just for kicks (as you could possibly have missed something). Check to make sure all of your engine grounds have been reinstalled on the backs of the cylinder heads.

The IAC should buzz for about 2-3 seconds AFTER the ignition is shut off (ECM setting IAC to "home" position to allow for richer start), not before the engine dies. I'd check the alternator. Those can tend to make funny noises on their way out, especially if the diodes or the bearings are junk. Check the angle of the fan blade on the alternator relative to the housing and check to see if you can spin it. If the nut has come loose on the shaft, this can make a very nasty noise as the fan scrapes against the front alternator housing.

BTW, did you get the replacement CSI, in case you need it?

project89

iTrader: (1)

he has no csi and thats prolly why his car wont run

work the throttle untill the car starts to warm up and then see if it wil idle also u should not be starting and shutting the car down right now the cam is still not broken in and u risk wiping out some of the lobes

also he has no timing light so he cannot set the ignition timming acuratly at all this is prolly another issue

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, if he somehow didn't get his hands on a 3.1 fuel rail and he doesn't have a CSI, there's a problem there. Either a., the CSI port on the fuel rail is leaking, or b., the CSI isn't in the manifold and there is just a hole there. Unless someone plugged the rail and left the injector in the manifold.

Also, are the valve covers sealing properly and has the idle air tube been damaged?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Well, not all the vac lines are in, namele the EGR and EVAP canister vac lines aren't hooked up, but it ran fine before with even less stuff hooked up, so I'm perplexed, one thing I'm not sure about vac wise, is what goes to the UIM? brake booster and something evap right? Engine grounds should be hooked up, but ill check. If there's one thing I'm 100% positive of its that the noise is not the alternator.
Figured out an easy way to test IAC, I think....if I hold a rev of like say 3k or something, and it still stalls, that rules out IAC right, as in a bad IAC shouldn't matter at anything higher than idle speed?
As for the cracked block...JB weld....but keep that on the DL,lol.

Project 3.4 Camaro

That is exactly what I did with the csi problem.

Project 3.4 Camaro

By work the throttle I'm guessing you mean play footsies with the gas pedal to keep it running, valve covers are deff sealed, iac tube is brand new.
But the thing I don't get is that it ran fine before...it should run better now that most of the vac lines are hooked up, but just to be sure I didn't mess it up, 4 way connector comes off LIM, big hole goes to IAC on throttle body, small piece on right goes to evap, and the top one goes to PCV valve correct?
Then on the UIM, big nipple is for brake booster, small one for something emissions correct?
The CSI...is it supposed to help the engine start when its freezing out, start the engine when its not already heated up from running, does it help it along till it warms up or just start? I mean if its that important I got the one maverick sent and can put it in easily enough, just not quite sure what circumstances the engine uses it in, or why they have one to begin with to be honest...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I'm seriously going to have to post that pic of my vac hose routing on photobucket... It's the same as the sticker from the '85 hood.

Anyways, the EVAP is SUPPOSED to hook to the EGR and to the small line running around the side of the engine off of the idle air tube. If the big line isn't hooked up, plug it somehow until you get the cam broken in. Check to make sure the idle air pipe hasn't gotten broken somewhere. To the other side of the T where the brake booster connects is the HVAC, cruise control, and the vacuum ball. You could probably plug that one as well.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

CSI is used under 100*F to add additional fuel to the startup cycle as GM somehow thought that adding a seventh injector would allow for the difference in the startup PW or something. The switch by the CTS holds the injector open until the coolant temp reaches 100*F or thereabouts, helping to keep the engine running. My thought is that GM was trying to keep the engine a bit on the lean side or something and the CSI was almost necessary on the colder days to get it warmed up. Almost all MFI 2.8L engines had one.

Project 3.4 Camaro

If they tried to keep them lean didn't they fail pretty bad, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these engines well known to run rich as hell o.O?
Anyway, I'm not dealing with it today, for the moment I'm content with it starting right up, but tomorrow I'll go put the CSI in and try the IAC disconnect thing and or try throttling it and seeing if it shuts off with some foot finesse or not.
It's times like these I wish Dave didn't live way out in johnstown =/
Cause unfortunately I know far more about cars than any of my friends out here do, so none of them are any help -_-

heres a pic of the current state of affairs...now just a couple side notes here, I put a breather filter in the left VC in place of the breather tube, and yes, I sealed off the breather tube hole on the intake pipe, as you can see in back of picture, new hose going to IAC on the right, PCV line going out the top, and side piece capped off(pretty sure its for charcoal can) then I have brake booster going to big nipple on UIM, and the other side capped. EGR and charcoal can are not hooked up to vacuum lines at all, the EGR is hooked up to throttle body and header though....which was a PITA because the holes for the bolts on the header had bad tolerances in manufacture =/

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Fuel pressure is WAY too high. You don't have the FPR vacuum hose in the right port, which should be the small one towards the middle (manifold vacuum), not where you have it (ported vacuum for EGR and charcoal canister).

And don't forget to put the alternator back in...

Project 3.4 Camaro

Doh....let me guess, thats probably why it isn't running? I figured those ports went the same place, did not realize that.......Surprised you even noticed, good eye man, and thanks =/

Cause I knew it was going to be something stupid that kept the car from running, even as I removed the very first bolt from the engine,lol...

At any rate, its a 60/6, so I have faith...

project89

iTrader: (1)

umm check ur maf sensor i think u have it in backwards but im not positive on that

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I get them crossed all of the time myself not realizing that my 3.1 TB ports are almost completely backwards of the 2.8 ports... I still can't seem to get the FPR hose in the right hole half the time.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Should be an arrow on the bottom pointing towards the engine, but it looks like it's in right (electrical connector should be on the engine end and the screen on the air filter end).

Project 3.4 Camaro

I don't think my MAF is backwards, but I'll double check, and Maverick man, that last bit you said cracked me up.
Hopefully one of these little things is the problem, looking forward to finding out tom, thanks for the help so far guys.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah, I know it has an arrow on it, I'm almost positive its on right, but takes all of 1s to check, so I will when I do the other stuff tom.

project89

iTrader: (1)

yeah i zoomed in on his pic and looked again its wierd though my connector was on the bottom side not the top like his

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, when you have one large port that the EGR and canister hook to and 3 small ones and you don't have the proper sticker, it's easy to get confused. I'm forever plugging the FPR line in there and cranking her up only to her her act as a vacuum cleaner. Now, if I could also stop crossing the 2 plug wires as well, I'd be all set. (can't remember which 2 but it's always the same ones).

We all screw up occasionally when we get the wrong info...

Project 3.4 Camaro

It's probably just upside down from the way you have yours.

project89

iTrader: (1)

hey im editing a picture for u to look at check out the harness it looks liek it might be pinched in ur ac lines ill post up the picture in a second

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Kind of makes you wonder why the one for the Bird has the connector pointing straight back in the same direction as the air flow, though... I would have thought the only difference between them would be that idiot elbow they put on the Bird one.

project89

iTrader: (1)

check all the wires in this picture make sure nothing is grounding out or frayed

Project 3.4 Camaro

Btw, kind of off topic but I read up how to do the rear springs in my haynes, it'll be a PITA, but yeah, definitely easy.

project89

iTrader: (1)

springs should only take about 30 mins do one side at a time.

jack up the car and put it on stands

then put the jack under one side of the rear and jack it up just a tiny bit, just enough so its on the jack good, then unbolt the shock from the rear and let the jack down

the spring will fall out
place rubber insulators on the top of the new spring stick it in place then jack the rear back up and reinstall the shock and ur done with that side

just repeat for the other side

btw picture is poisted above

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah I saw, Ill check it out, should i go get new insulators or are the ones i have likely to be fine?

Project 3.4 Camaro

What's this elbow piece look like anyway? I've heard a couple horror stories about it. Something about it being a bitch to replace or something and it being prone to breaking, can't quite recall.

project89

iTrader: (1)

depends on what they look like , there prolly fine though

86ttopbird

I have some pics i just took of my old MAF that I took off in favor of the Ford one.The one of the orange film on the inside is the reason i dumped it. Its a little fuzzy but see how it kind of looks like a skate ramp? It is supposed to be smooth not wavy like that and theres a ding in it like something hit it. That MAF is shot. The Ford MAF eliminates these kinds of problems, like buying a MAF every year.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Oh as a side note, yeah I still need to rebuild mine or get a new alternator, but I figure it doesn't make a difference till I have the engine running anyways, when I'm filling coolant via the dump it into rad method with lid off and engine running, I'm supposed to fill it near to the top where I can see it flowing, correct?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Maverick, do you have the fitting that goes on the CSI line? that screws into the fuel rail and the nut on the line...or at least know wth size and thread type the damned thing is so I can find a new one?...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Camaros don't generally have one unless they have the same crappy intake setup the Birds do, so don't worry about it. However, if you must know, GM uses the elbow to connect the MAF to the air filter can (as you may see on a vehicle such as your Buick depending on engine or a Cavalier Z24 from the same year as your Buick). The GM MAF has the proper elbow. Reman and non-GM MAF sensors have an elbow that's too small to work right and generally ends up broken upon installation (ask me how I know... damn things).

And no, the only CSI fitting I have and can get I'm using (I think, anyways... I'll have to look in the junk bolts bin). Sorry. If I can, when I swap my starter for the one I just rebuilt, I'll try to get a thread size. You lost it, didn't you?

Project 3.4 Camaro

I threw out my old line...I think the nut on my old CSI, had the threads attached, like one piece...so I expected the new one to screw right in there, then go to put the damn thing on, and wind up driving to 4 different places over the span of like 2 hours, trying to figure out what the bloody hell I need...the threads in the fuel rail aren't the same as the ones on the nut on the CSI line, and I have no idea if the difference is that it's metric, different diameter, different thread type, or for all I bloody know, all 3......
And I put it back together with FPR line in right spot just to see, and still shuts off. Seems to be backfiring a little bit too, which I presume to be timing too retarded, problem is even advanced as far as it will start it still does it, so I'm actually kind of theorizing here that the timing is too far back, and it won't start with the right timing because it needs the extra fuel from the CSI maybe, but once again as it keeps coming back to for me, it ran perfectly fine before....halfways torn down so I don't get it...I might just have to shell out some cash for someone else to figure out wtf it is...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If someone just put a bolt in the fuel rail hole, you may end up rethreading the rail. GM states that ALL of the fasteners used on the 60* are metric. IDK if this applies to the fuel rail threads or not.

Don't mess with the timing until you get the fueling right. Check the firing order, and not just at the dizzy. Also, check the resistance on the CTS if you can. You're not throwing codes, are you? I know you won't have a code 44 or 45, but a code 14, 15, or 34 should show right up.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the firing order is correct i put the plug wires on and set the timing thefirst time,so unless he took the plug wires off it will be right.

when i put the motor together for him the first time it did sit and run on its own,

rs did u ever get the tps sensor fixed??

Project 3.4 Camaro

I did take them off, but all the plugs are in the right order and I have my cylinders and firing order memorized....1, 3, 5 cylinders are on left when looking at engine from front, 2, 4 and 6 on the right, with a chronological firing order 1-6.
As for the tps....kind of, JB weld ftw...and yes, I was quite tediuous about what did and didn't get the stuff on it.
I'll try removing the MAF and advancing the timing, because those are the only two things that were different other than vac lines.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Oh btw, fuel components and spark plugs on american cars tend to be english as a standard if I'm not mistaken...I mean, look at the fittings where the fuel lines connect to the rail, the nuts are 5/8, same size as spark plugs too I believe, at any rate, they're both english.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Still not running....have a list of things to check but no godamned tools(someone stole half my tools, and it was all the important ones I can't do jack **** without).
Kind of suspect ICM, I can at least rule out that or fuel, but even if I find the damn problem I can't fix it with no tools, so POD right now...