AFR hydra-rev Kit: Good or Bad?
10-02-2003, 03:36 PM
#51
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Originally posted by 383backinblack
there are chevy v8s with hydraulic lifters that get up to 7000rpm without the aid of a rev kit....a properly balanced engine with the right combination of valve hardware (no, not titanium locks and retainers) will rev that high with no problems.
it happens every day...if you dont think it does, you arent spending enough time at the the race track
there are chevy v8s with hydraulic lifters that get up to 7000rpm without the aid of a rev kit....a properly balanced engine with the right combination of valve hardware (no, not titanium locks and retainers) will rev that high with no problems.
it happens every day...if you dont think it does, you arent spending enough time at the the race track
just think how much better they can do if they got it and took advantage of it!
im still not sure why you think this is a bad idea. just because it works without it doesnt mean it cant be better with it....
10-02-2003, 05:14 PM
#52
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It seems to me that the rev kit is just aiding and abedding a mismatch to begin with. Generally, people choose hydraulic over solid because an engine will be driven mostly on the street. A street engine is usually built with a wide powerband and decent low end, the engine will spend most of its time in the midrange not the upper rpms... you shouldnt need to rev your hydraulic roller street engine past 6500. If you intend to make power at higher rpms, usually its a mostly-strip engine, so who cares if you need to adjust the valves occasionally; get a solid roller. Im sure the kit has its place and probably helps valvetrain stability somewhat, but is it worth the extra cost on most street engines?
10-02-2003, 07:16 PM
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"I could really stir things up and watch the BS fly when I ask"
Do they make the kit for the 60 degree V6????
If not they should.
Matt [duck n cover]
Do they make the kit for the 60 degree V6????
If not they should.
Matt [duck n cover]
Last edited by Gumby; 10-02-2003 at 07:24 PM.
10-02-2003, 07:57 PM
#54
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Originally posted by Gumby
"I could really stir things up and watch the BS fly when I ask"
Do they make the kit for the 60 degree V6????
If not they should.
Matt [duck n cover]
"I could really stir things up and watch the BS fly when I ask"
Do they make the kit for the 60 degree V6????
If not they should.
Matt [duck n cover]
straight from AFRs site:
Hydra-Rev is available now for Chevrolet V8 small block and V6 engines except the cast iron LT1 Impala and Vortec truck heads, Pro Action Iron Lightning or Dart Iron Eagle. If heads are already installed on the engine, a spring installation tool will be required.
10-02-2003, 07:58 PM
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gumby:
also comp cams and crane cams (you know, the valvetrain experts) make hydra rev kits... they call them diffrent names though...
you could check if they make them for your app too.
also comp cams and crane cams (you know, the valvetrain experts) make hydra rev kits... they call them diffrent names though...
you could check if they make them for your app too.
10-02-2003, 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by 383backinblack
there are chevy v8s with hydraulic lifters that get up to 7000rpm without the aid of a rev kit....a properly balanced engine with the right combination of valve hardware (no, not titanium locks and retainers) will rev that high with no problems.
it happens every day...if you dont think it does, you arent spending enough time at the the race track
there are chevy v8s with hydraulic lifters that get up to 7000rpm without the aid of a rev kit....a properly balanced engine with the right combination of valve hardware (no, not titanium locks and retainers) will rev that high with no problems.
it happens every day...if you dont think it does, you arent spending enough time at the the race track
How many L98s or LT1s do you see pushing 7000rpms at the track? The ones that I have seen are running solid rollers. 7000rpm OE roller motors are NOT common. Simply join and make a post to the Mid-Atlantic or Northeastern F-Body mailing lists. You'll get laughed at if you suggest that 7000rpm OE roller motors are totally normal and commonplace. They are not.
Can it be done? Of course. Is it common? No. .... and I can guarantee that most are running titanium retainers.
Tim
Last edited by TRAXION; 10-02-2003 at 09:03 PM.
10-02-2003, 10:39 PM
#57
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Originally posted by TRAXION
7000rpm motors without titanium retainers and with OE-Type hydraulic rollers are few and far between. You make it seem like it is common. It absolutely is not. Umm yea - and I spend my fair share of time at the track. That's bad information. Case and point ....
How many L98s or LT1s do you see pushing 7000rpms at the track? The ones that I have seen are running solid rollers. 7000rpm OE roller motors are NOT common. Simply join and make a post to the Mid-Atlantic or Northeastern F-Body mailing lists. You'll get laughed at if you suggest that 7000rpm OE roller motors are totally normal and commonplace. They are not.
Can it be done? Of course. Is it common? No. .... and I can guarantee that most are running titanium retainers.
Tim
7000rpm motors without titanium retainers and with OE-Type hydraulic rollers are few and far between. You make it seem like it is common. It absolutely is not. Umm yea - and I spend my fair share of time at the track. That's bad information. Case and point ....
How many L98s or LT1s do you see pushing 7000rpms at the track? The ones that I have seen are running solid rollers. 7000rpm OE roller motors are NOT common. Simply join and make a post to the Mid-Atlantic or Northeastern F-Body mailing lists. You'll get laughed at if you suggest that 7000rpm OE roller motors are totally normal and commonplace. They are not.
Can it be done? Of course. Is it common? No. .... and I can guarantee that most are running titanium retainers.
Tim
to my knowledge the only "OE" v8 chevy that ever did that was the 302.
you see even more big blocks that can rev like that with hydraulic lifters.
you sound like an old crochety moron......thats something my grandfather would say.....you cant do that....BS, you can do anything you want, and sh*tloads of people do.
people will laugh at me?? i doubt it, not if they have any brains......unless of course they are like you
Last edited by 383backinblack; 10-02-2003 at 10:41 PM.
10-02-2003, 10:43 PM
#58
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Originally posted by formularpm
It seems to me that the rev kit is just aiding and abedding a mismatch to begin with. Generally, people choose hydraulic over solid because an engine will be driven mostly on the street. A street engine is usually built with a wide powerband and decent low end, the engine will spend most of its time in the midrange not the upper rpms... you shouldnt need to rev your hydraulic roller street engine past 6500. If you intend to make power at higher rpms, usually its a mostly-strip engine, so who cares if you need to adjust the valves occasionally; get a solid roller. Im sure the kit has its place and probably helps valvetrain stability somewhat, but is it worth the extra cost on most street engines?
It seems to me that the rev kit is just aiding and abedding a mismatch to begin with. Generally, people choose hydraulic over solid because an engine will be driven mostly on the street. A street engine is usually built with a wide powerband and decent low end, the engine will spend most of its time in the midrange not the upper rpms... you shouldnt need to rev your hydraulic roller street engine past 6500. If you intend to make power at higher rpms, usually its a mostly-strip engine, so who cares if you need to adjust the valves occasionally; get a solid roller. Im sure the kit has its place and probably helps valvetrain stability somewhat, but is it worth the extra cost on most street engines?
10-03-2003, 06:28 AM
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Again you are about 2 cents short from a penny. You obviously have no idea who I am or what I am involved in. Moron? Bwahahaha. Now you're grabbing at straws and resorting to name calling because you don't know what you are talking about. YOU get with the program. This post specifically refers to OE small block hydraulic roller motors. I enjoy people who just throw crap out of their mouth with nothing to back it up. So, how many of these 7000rpm hydraulic roller motors have you built? Yea - that's what I thought. Your experience relies on your delusions as well as the lies of others. I take it your 383 revs at 7000rpms all day long with a hydraulic roller? lol. If you have the money then a 7000rpm motor can be built. In case you haven't looked around most people here don't have that cash. OF COURSE you can do whatever you want - it's all about money. I'm the worst person that you want to be arguing with because I'm one of the proponents of revving a motor high. That's why my STOCK L98 has the high RPM dyno graph you see above. How many others out of the THOUSANDS on this board are doing that? Not Many. .... ... .. . and I am not even hitting 7000rpms. Your argument is ludicrous because you have unknowingly forgot the context of this post and the purpose of this site. If 7000rpms hydraulic motors were commonplace then you would have representatives of that group here. Guess what? You don't. That means that either all the members of thirdgen.org are old crotchety and moronic - or else you're wrong. Hmmmmm. I wonder which one it could be.
Furthermore, 7000rpm hydraulic roller motors are stupid. Totally stupid. If you are revving a motor that high then it is obviously used for racing and built to handle those rpms. If you are dumping money into a setup like that then you would obviously use a solid roller camshaft because you WILL get substantially more power out of it.
Tim
Furthermore, 7000rpm hydraulic roller motors are stupid. Totally stupid. If you are revving a motor that high then it is obviously used for racing and built to handle those rpms. If you are dumping money into a setup like that then you would obviously use a solid roller camshaft because you WILL get substantially more power out of it.
Tim
10-03-2003, 08:52 AM
#60
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Originally posted by 383backinblack
it doesn't allow you to use lighter valve springs, it allows you to use the spec'd valve springs for the cam and not have to add more spring pressure to properly control the valves at high RPM.
....otherwise you could crush a lifter.....the other option is using a solid cam, or higher quality lifters, like the comp cams pro magnum series hydraulic lifters.
in almost every case, you shold NEVER use a lighter spring than the cam specs for.....
because the rev kit can add pressure to the lifter, and thereby follow the cam lobes with more stability.
it CANNOT control the rest of the valvetrain, as it provides NO more pressure on the valves themselves.....
just the lifters, and could lead to slow/irregular opening/closing and possibly bouncing the valves off the seats at closing.
it doesn't allow you to use lighter valve springs, it allows you to use the spec'd valve springs for the cam and not have to add more spring pressure to properly control the valves at high RPM.
....otherwise you could crush a lifter.....the other option is using a solid cam, or higher quality lifters, like the comp cams pro magnum series hydraulic lifters.
in almost every case, you shold NEVER use a lighter spring than the cam specs for.....
because the rev kit can add pressure to the lifter, and thereby follow the cam lobes with more stability.
it CANNOT control the rest of the valvetrain, as it provides NO more pressure on the valves themselves.....
just the lifters, and could lead to slow/irregular opening/closing and possibly bouncing the valves off the seats at closing.
10-03-2003, 10:34 AM
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In my experience, saying a 7k rpm range on a hyd roller motor is normal is ridiculous. I have seen many of dyno pulls, engine combinations in my day, and I never saw a hyd engine keep pulling to 7k.
10-03-2003, 04:44 PM
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THis post is out of control, its time it is locked. Instead of simply stating the pros and cons of a rev kit it has just become silly. Can't we all just get along... Here are the pros and cons in a nut shell.
Pros: Allows more valve train stability, manufacturers claim HP increases at higher RPMs which may or may not have merit...
Cons: Some people may not want to spend about $200, it will not hurt anything to have one on a street engine...
Trax, I am with you and your reasoning here.
Why do these dicussions always turn out the same?
Pros: Allows more valve train stability, manufacturers claim HP increases at higher RPMs which may or may not have merit...
Cons: Some people may not want to spend about $200, it will not hurt anything to have one on a street engine...
Trax, I am with you and your reasoning here.
Why do these dicussions always turn out the same?
10-03-2003, 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by 92 zzz28
THis post is out of control, its time it is locked. Instead of simply stating the pros and cons of a rev kit it has just become silly. Can't we all just get along... Here are the pros and cons in a nut shell.
Pros: Allows more valve train stability, manufacturers claim HP increases at higher RPMs which may or may not have merit...
Cons: Some people may not want to spend about $200, it will not hurt anything to have one on a street engine...
Trax, I am with you and your reasoning here.
Why do these dicussions always turn out the same?
THis post is out of control, its time it is locked. Instead of simply stating the pros and cons of a rev kit it has just become silly. Can't we all just get along... Here are the pros and cons in a nut shell.
Pros: Allows more valve train stability, manufacturers claim HP increases at higher RPMs which may or may not have merit...
Cons: Some people may not want to spend about $200, it will not hurt anything to have one on a street engine...
Trax, I am with you and your reasoning here.
Why do these dicussions always turn out the same?
Matt
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