Guys, I have a 90 Formula 350 and I was reading about SFCs. I read that they reduce all the creaks, groans and rattles as well as help the ride. How much do they really help? Who offers the best? How much and where did you get them? I am looking for personal experiences if possible. I am looking to act soon so your response is appreciated. Rocky

 

i bought compertition engineering SFC's, even though they were pretty easy to install, i havent noticed a dramatic difference at all. Actually, the damn y-pipe bangs against the passanger side and rattles. Go elsewhere.

------------------
"Ever notice how imports sound like weedwackers"

 

STEVE SPOHN ALL THE WAY.

------------------
Rick
90 Camaro RS 305 TBI
400 on the way!!

 

Check out Jegs also. My buddy got some from there that are bolt-in and weld-in, they seem pretty good, and they're pretty cheap too. Good luck.

------------------
'89 Camaro RS 6cyl. auto, don't know how much longer I'll have it.
'90 Iroc TPI 305, 5 spd (no mods...yet )

 

I've got Kenny Brown sfc's welded in and they made a huge improvement to the stiffness of the car. I think the suspension actually takes bumps better, rather than the unibody flexing.

 

ive got south side machine shop sfc and love them very easy to install fit perfect and stop alot of the rattles our cars have jus mu .02

------------------
1992 camaro RS
373 10 bolt rearend
ssm sfc's
87 350 TPI
bored 30 over
compucam 2032 with 1.6
482-495 LIFT 214-220 duration full roller rockers
msd6AL
1 5/8 headman headers
2 `1/2 flowmaster exuast
k&n filters gutter air box gutted maf
3 pc under drive pulleys
no emissions no egr etc
custom ED Wright chip
eddelbroc intake base and runners ported plenum
midly ported and polished stock heads
Taylor 8mm wires
B&M mega shifter
gutted maf/airbox
hotchkis lower control arms
3" exhuast cutout
homemade cold air intake
2000 tci stall
700R4 with B&M shift kit
new best ET 13.5 @104.66

 

Where can I get these subframe connectors and how do they cost? I really do prefer bolt-on. Will I have any problems installing them on my car equiped with dual cats? SSM sounds like the way to go. How hard was the install of the SSM's? If anyone else has input, please help. Rocky

 

Rocky,
I think you want to stay away from bolt on sub frame connectors because the holes for the bolts will widen over time and then you'll get more rattles.
South Side Machine (SSM) has some good sfc and alot of people here have them and like them.
Steve Spohn (one of thirdgen sponsers) has sfc simular to SSM but he adds a "Y" bar to them which give better reanforement. However he is still not ready to sell more since he is finishing a group order up for these. But you can goto his form and ask when and how much. I asked Steve about dual cats, since I have them to, and he said no one that he sent sfc to said they had problems with dual cats.

The last good type of sfc manufacture is "Kenny Brown". Again these are simular to Steve Spohn's with a "Y" bar attachment.
As for cost I think around $250 but I'm not sure, I could be wrong.

Both Steve's and Kenny's sfc must be welded in.

I hope this helps you.
Good Luck!

 

WELL I DISAGREE W/ THE LAST STATEMENT I HAVE COMP ENGEIR. BOLT IN SUBS AND LOVE EM.
THE ONLY CATCH IS U GOT 2 KNOW HOW TO WORK THE PROJECT (INSTALLATION) NOT SAYING HIS WASN'T INSTALLED RIGHT) JUST LOOK HOW DIFFERENT SETUPS INSTALL. MINE INSTALLED IN ABOUT 5HRS I HAD 2 DRILL 5 PILOT HOLES UNDER THE CARPET BETWEEN THE SEATS AND BOTTOM FLOOR PANEL (PLASTIC KICK BOARD RUNS UNDER THE DOOR)ALSO REMEMBER THAT WITH WELDING THAT REDUCES FLEX AND IN THIS APP. U DON'T WANT 2 DO THAT CAUSE SOMETHING ELSE HAS 2 GIVE any Q. ASK...
92 FORMULA (GLUE FACTORY)

------------------
92 F-BIRd FORMULA T-TOP (WHITEKNIGHT) 5.7L-98,700R4B&MSATURDAY NIGHT
SPECIALTRANS 2500STALL,54MM-AS&M TB-PORTPLENT,LARGETUBRUN,
UNDER PULLEYS K&NCOLD AIR KIT,160THERMO,ELDB HEADERS W/3 1/2 Y PIPE 2 RINO CAT 2 4INCH PIPE 2 FLOW,
MSDDIST,6AL,8MMWIRES.
2BLASTERCOIL.ACCELL PLUGS
CUSTOM FASTCHIP BY ED WRIGHT,AUBERN POSI W/ RICHMOND 3.73 AND SPLINES,TUBE FRAME CONNEC
PST KIT.1LE BRAKE KIT! MANY MORE MODS FORESEEN IN MY ERA!

[This message has been edited by ONEFORMULAOVERALL (edited November 07, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ONEFORMULAOVERALL (edited November 07, 2000).]

 

Common board etiquette (spelling??), dont use all caps.

Five hours sounds like a lot of time for a sfc install, I'ver heard the max for steves weld in's is about two hours. It also seems to me that putting all those excess holes in your car is just asking for rust.

Why would we not want to reduce flex?

the point of sfcs is to reduce body flex and let the suspension handle the flexing. By reducing body flex, you are also transferring the power the body-flex absorbes, to the suspension, and ultimately to the ground where you want it.

Am i missing something in my reasoning here??

------------------
1986 Trans Am
305 TPI
"If it's not one thing, it's another!"
http://www2.hanover.edu/hierlmeier

 

First DOG!,this isn't english class!!
With welded in subframes u put 2 much tension on the doors which causes cracks in front of the rearview mirrors!And the doors might start shutting unevenly. But this is in field experience. but u are right u want 2 submit all torsion 2 the suspension but on a sound way without consquenses.
and also i personally installed them myself and took time and care in my work. some of us would appreciate!!
Oh and the rust, Comp Engineering takes care of that prob. Look them up!!


------------------
92 F-BIRd FORMULA T-TOP (WHITEKNIGHT) 5.7L-98,700R4B&MSATURDAY NIGHT
SPECIALTRANS 2500STALL,54MM-AS&M TB-PORTPLENT,LARGETUBRUN,
UNDER PULLEYS K&NCOLD AIR KIT,160THERMO,ELDB HEADERS W/3 1/2 Y PIPE 2 RINO CAT 2 4INCH PIPE 2 FLOW,
MSDDIST,6AL,8MMWIRES.
2BLASTERCOIL.ACCELL PLUGS
CUSTOM FASTCHIP BY ED WRIGHT,AUBERN POSI W/ RICHMOND 3.73 AND SPLINES,TUBE FRAME CONNEC
PST KIT.1LE BRAKE KIT! MANY MORE MODS FORESEEN IN MY ERA!13.38ET @ 109.75MPH

 

No need to get hostile there buddy, and i didnt say anything about english class. If you want to get pissed off, go to a mustang board. We're all friends here.

I fail to see how weld ins put stress on the doors, all i have heard is that they keep the body stiff, not allowing the frame to sag, which would then cause the doors to shut unevenly.


------------------
1986 Trans Am
305 TPI
"If it's not one thing, it's another!"
http://www2.hanover.edu/hierlmeier

 

It is common knowledge that weld-in sfc's are a better choice, this is why there are so many companies who make weld-in only connectors. However, welding them in is more trouble because it requires a mig welder to prevent burning holes in the thin floor metal. Personally, I believe Steve's SFC's are the best value for the money. You get good quality work, POWDER COATED, for less than most other companies charge. And you're helping to support this site . I guess I'm just biased like that.

 

hey i wasn't trying to get hostile! mabey my points came off a little to sharp therefore i apoligize! after thinking about the spelling remark i realized that u were talking about spelling etiquette.
The point i'm saying is the torque of the engine is side 2 side not front to back that is why you dont see 500hp t-tops . as soon as they hit the masher,SHATTER
also case in point the torsion bar between the trans an rear end is not welded it is mounted by bolts and bushings. also if u look at a lot of later models (pickups,crown vics(cop cars) there subs are held in by bushings)this info is coming from an A.S.E mechanic. again sorry about the misundersatnding but (YOU STARTED IT )
also notice mustanks are like a*#holes almost everyones got one .. LOL...


------------------
92 F-BIRd FORMULA T-TOP (WHITEKNIGHT) 5.7L-98,700R4B&MSATURDAY NIGHT
SPECIALTRANS 2500STALL,54MM-AS&M TB-PORTPLENT,LARGETUBRUN,
UNDER PULLEYS K&NCOLD AIR KIT,160THERMO,ELDB HEADERS W/3 1/2 Y PIPE 2 RINO CAT 2 4INCH PIPE 2 FLOW,
MSDDIST,6AL,8MMWIRES.
2BLASTERCOIL.ACCELL PLUGS
CUSTOM FASTCHIP BY ED WRIGHT,AUBERN POSI W/ RICHMOND 3.73 AND SPLINES,TUBE FRAME CONNEC
PST KIT.1LE BRAKE KIT! MANY MORE MODS FORESEEN IN MY ERA!13.38ET @ 109.75MPH

 

I'm really not trying to argue, because i really dont know much about anything, but I also want to learn as much as possible, so that is why i'm trying to get a full understanding of this.

I realize the engine torques from side to side, but this causes the body to twist. Try this, slowly lift one corner of your mouse pad (the corner corresponding to the drivers side front tire on your car), you can see that it twists along the side of the corner that you are pulling up. IF there was rigid member (sfc) running from the corner you are pulling up and the rear corner on that same side, there would be no twist, ie. body twist. I disticntly remember someone saying they need sfcs because the paint was starting to crack at the upper corner of their windshield from the twist of the body.

Go back to the mouse pad, if there was a rigid member between the corner your pulling up and the rear corner, obviously the rear corner would start to come up, i believe this would be the reason, a lot of dragsters will run airbags with more pressure in the passenger side, that would force the driver side back wheel to stay down. So no power would be lost due to body flex and both tires would still be getting traction.

I was also under the impression that torsion bars moved with the motion of the axle, if this was the case, it wouldnt be welded in becasue of that movement.

I guess the discussion at hand is the advantage of welding over bolting. The point is that over time the bolt holes will be the ones absorbing the flex, eventually inlarging the holes, deeming the sfcs useless, and causes more rattles.

but anyway......its all about theory

and I will be graduating from college with a business degree this year and am planning on attending wyoming tech next, any comments on the school or other schools??

------------------
1986 Trans Am
305 TPI
"If it's not one thing, it's another!"
http://www2.hanover.edu/hierlmeier

 

Thanks Brad and 86 Trans Am!
As for ONEFORMULAOVERALL may be the people who I talked to installed the bolt on sfc's wrong. I don't know.
And as for cracks behind the rear view mirror this could be because the weld in sfc were put in wrong. You know that the wheels need to be supporting the suspension when welded in? If not then the frame will not set right and you could get crack by the rear view mirror or other places. This also goes for bolt in sfc.
Also did you ever wonder why they are using bushings in the later model ( "pickups,crown vics(cop cars)") cause bushings give for the torque hence it WON'T elongate the holes but the bushings will break or be cut in time!
How long have YOU had your sfc in? Keep in touch and let us know how they are in 3-4 years of mashing the gas peddle down.
These forms are for information and everone has some different info which is good but when you write in CAPS it usually means your yelling that is why 86 said something about etiquette and not your spelling but the spelling of the word "etiquette".
This whole website is all about sharing the knowledge we all have don't get mad if someone puts down something you have ... just give your idea and thoughts about it and how it works for you.
Nuff said my email address is in my profile so email me there if you want to discuss it further or at www.nethridgen.org. I have the same handle.

 

Uh,, ONEFORMULAOVERALL - looking at your sig,,, what cam and heads are you running to get almost 110mph in the quarter?

 

I was going to mention the same thing, If the car is raised up off the wheels when installing the SBC's then when you lower the car you are immediatley puuting stress on the body of the car that shouldn't be there which in turn would/could cause the cracks you were describing. THe reason for the bolt in SBC's not causing that is b/c they would allow the car to settle a little once it was set back onto all fours, but then your defeating the purpose of the SBC's if they are allowed to settle or move very slightly.

Go with the weld in SBC's and put the car on a drive-on rack.


------------------
1988 TA 300+hp 350 w/ TBI and Holley TB unit, Holley projection intake,
WC T-5, 3.42 gears w/ Auburn posi. MSD 6A, edelbrock TES headers, dynomax 3" cat and cat-back system, ACCEL coil, polyurethane bushings all around, aluminum driveshaft, Mr. Gasket open air cleaner.

1993 S-10 w/ 4.3L V6 TBI, slightly bigger cam, Mild polish job and 3 angle valve job on heads, Edlebrock TES headers, Dynomax cat back, MSD 6A, ADS chip

2000 Kawasaki KX 125

 

WOW!! I guess u could say i'v been framed but i still will disagree. (GOD I LOVE THE COUNTRY). as 4 the bolt ins i see i wasn't clear as 4 the bolts on the inside it is also bolted 2 the rear traling arm and front frame Y right where u would weld the others.
as 4 et time stock.stock.stock i have not touched the engine (yet!!) i do run m/t 26x10.5rear & 27.5/4.5front. and this was my best et recorded at thunder vally in okc,ok. i race most of the time at owasso strip but rumor has it that they are going 2 tear it down and put up residence. can u belive that sh.t now we all will have 2 drive 110mi to thunder v to get our high!!
it just goes to show that all the time & preperation,and every thing working in unison pays off..
i do really appericate everyones opinion and
i'm pumped 2 see a bunch of smart opinated fellas that sticks 2 their guns!!
not like the (F)**ked (O)ver (R)ebuilt (Dodge

woy. tech grads know there sh*t best dam tech school in the nation

------------------
92 F-BIRd FORMULA T-TOP (WHITEKNIGHT) 5.7L-98,700R4B&MSATURDAY NIGHT
SPECIALTRANS 2500STALL,54MM-AS&M TB-PORTPLENT,LARGETUBRUN,
UNDER PULLEYS K&NCOLD AIR KIT,160THERMO,ELDB HEADERS W/3 1/2 Y PIPE 2 RINO CAT 2 4INCH PIPE 2 FLOW,
MSDDIST,6AL,8MMWIRES.
2BLASTERCOIL.ACCELL PLUGS
CUSTOM FASTCHIP BY ED WRIGHT,AUBERN POSI W/ RICHMOND 3.73 AND SPLINES,TUBE FRAME CONNEC
PST KIT.1LE BRAKE KIT! MANY MORE MODS FORESEEN IN MY ERA!13.38ET @ 109.75MPH

[This message has been edited by ONEFORMULAOVERALL (edited November 08, 2000).]

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ONEFORMULAOVERALL:
[B]WOW!! I guess u could say i'v been framed but i still will disagree. (GOD I LOVE THE COUNTRY). as 4 the bolt ins i see i wasn't clear as 4 the bolts on the inside it is also bolted 2 the rear traling arm and front frame Y right where u would weld the others.
as 4 et time stock.stock.stock i have not touched the engine (yet!!) i do run m/t 26x10.5rear & 27.5/4.5front. and this was my best et recorded at thunder vally in okc,ok. i race most of the time at owasso strip but rumor has it that they are going 2 tear it down and put up residence. can u belive that sh.t now we all will have 2 drive 110mi to thunder v to get our high!!
it just goes to show that all the time & preperation,and every thing working in unison pays off..
i do really appericate everyones opinion and
i'm pumped 2 see a bunch of smart opinated fellas that sticks 2 their guns!!
not like the (F)**ked (O)ver (R)ebuilt (Dodge

woy. tech grads know there sh*t best dam tech school in the nation

hey badss if u have heads what r they an how do u feel about LT-4 hot cam i have heard that the duration is 2 big 4 any thing but a 383 or bigger?? whats your 2 pennies...

------------------
92 F-BIRd FORMULA T-TOP (WHITEKNIGHT) 5.7L-98,700R4B&MSATURDAY NIGHT
SPECIALTRANS 2500STALL,54MM-AS&M TB-PORTPLENT,LARGETUBRUN,
UNDER PULLEYS K&NCOLD AIR KIT,160THERMO,ELDB HEADERS W/3 1/2 Y PIPE 2 RINO CAT 2 4INCH PIPE 2 FLOW,
MSDDIST,6AL,8MMWIRES.
2BLASTERCOIL.ACCELL PLUGS
CUSTOM FASTCHIP BY ED WRIGHT,AUBERN POSI W/ RICHMOND 3.73 AND SPLINES,TUBE FRAME CONNEC
PST KIT.1LE BRAKE KIT! MANY MORE MODS FORESEEN IN MY ERA!13.38ET @ 109.75MPH

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ONEFORMULAOVERALL:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by ONEFORMULAOVERALL:
[B]WOW!! I guess u could say i'v been framed but i still will disagree. (GOD I LOVE THE COUNTRY). as 4 the bolt ins i see i wasn't clear as 4 the bolts on the inside it is also bolted 2 the rear traling arm and front frame Y right where u would weld the others. and i did the whole thing while the tires were on the ground.
as 4 et time stock.stock.stock i have not touched the engine (yet!!) i do run m/t 26x10.5rear & 27.5/4.5front. and this was my best et recorded at thunder vally in okc,ok. i race most of the time at owasso strip but rumor has it that they are going 2 tear it down and put up residence. can u belive that sh.t now we all will have 2 drive 110mi to thunder v to get our high!!
it just goes to show that all the time & preperation,and every thing working in unison pays off..
i do really appericate everyones opinion and
i'm pumped 2 see a bunch of smart opinated fellas that sticks 2 their guns!!
not like the (F)**ked (O)ver (R)ebuilt (Dodge

woy. tech grads know there sh*t best dam tech school in the nation

hey badss if u have heads what r they an how do u feel about LT-4 hot cam i have heard that the duration is 2 big 4 any thing but a 383 or bigger?? whats your 2 pennies...

one of these days i'll figure this post up out sorry

 

Man,, my $0.02 is worth about $0.01 dealing with TPI or EFI. While I’ve been building engines for myself, friends, and customers,, and racing for years, this 86 TPI car is my first stab at fuel injection. I have TFS G1 heads and a 218/228 – 110 cam. My $0.01 worth – on what I know - I feel the 218/228 – 110 cam is not a good match for a TPI. I figured as much, but I already had the engine together (I was going to carb it) and held my breath that it the TPI would be OK with me heavily porting the stock base and running SLP runners. It’s “OK” – not that good – not that bad – I’m sure it would run better with a smaller cam with more lobe spread. I’m “only” pulling 108.1mph (13.03 - et streets). However, this stock 305 chip is not cutting it (INT at 114 under WOT) and the 2.5” muffler (even though the pipe to it is 3”) is killing me. Before seeing your mph, I was pretty happy with the performance – considering the car’s tune (or lack there of), 3.23 gears, and exhaust. I’ve done a few searches and you are running the fastest mph I’ve seen on this board with stock heads and cam. There are not many third gen TPI cars running 110mph - period. I’m sure you’re please and I know you’ve seen the posts where guys can’t get 105mph with heads and cam.

 

I have had a set of Jegs bolt in connectors on my '88 IROC for more than 5 years, and I have not seen one bit of bolt hole stretch. My car has a supercharged 350, T-tops, and is street driven only. I guess if you do a lot of road racing, or have a wild track car you might need weld in connectors, but for spirited street driving I think the bolt in's are just fine.

 

YO BADSS your .01$ is worth a dollar in my book because u know your lobes.i will use that info in my equasion as 4 my baby u DAMN right i'm stoked! i have babied her since 93 and went through about that many women. but like the castrol commercial says, don't talk sh*t about my baby!!lol... also me and many many other gear heads r proof that u dont need major engine hp 2 get good et's, just the good stuff in all the right places!!
as 4 tpi u know its all the same as good ole
carbed just fuel pinpointed where u need it.
and on f-bodys it really helps 2 have pizza cutters on the front at the track, helps w/ drag and weight.


hey odin65!! thanks 4 the (support) glad 2 see someone else bolts it to their baby



------------------
92 F-BIRd FORMULA T-TOP (WHITEKNIGHT) 5.7L-98,700R4B&MSATURDAY NIGHT
SPECIALTRANS 2500STALL,54MM-AS&M TB-PORTPLENT,LARGETUBRUN,
UNDER PULLEYS K&NCOLD AIR KIT,160THERMO,ELDB HEADERS W/3 1/2 Y PIPE 2 RINO CAT 2 4INCH PIPE 2 FLOW,
MSDDIST,6AL,8MMWIRES.
2BLASTERCOIL.ACCELL PLUGS
CUSTOM FASTCHIP BY ED WRIGHT,AUBERN POSI W/ RICHMOND 3.73 AND SPLINES,TUBE FRAME CONNEC
PST KIT.1LE BRAKE KIT! MANY MORE MODS FORESEEN IN MY ERA!13.38ET @ 109.75MPH

 

hey odin65!! thanks 4 the (support) glad 2 see someone else bolts it to their baby

[/B][/QUOTE]Um, you're welcome, I think.

 

Sfc's will prevent the body from sagging boltin or weld in. My body is sagging real bad now. The lines down the sides of my car in the middle don't line up with the door. The sail panel and fender lines form a v with each other. Installed years ago sfc's would have prevented that. I will install some soon. Subframe connectors will put no stress on the doors unless maybe they were installed with the car ****ed in some weird way and released after the install otherwise they would help prevent the body from flexing and stressing the doors. in fact this is the first time I have every heard of the door cracking around the mirror. 86transam, I am currently attending the University of Northwestern Ohio in the high performance program. I think that the school does a good job of teaching you what you need to know. Of course experience is 99% of the game in this business. I don't know what your auto experience is but I would highly recomend a good tech background before you go to ywo tech. They are just like NADC, volume volume volume. I just spent my past 6 weeks learning about just a/c systems. I would feel real confident going out into the field and woking on a/c systems now. Just taking the auto classes there gives you the tech background needed to take all the ASE tests to become master certified. Check it out.

------------------
82 z28 350cid, vortec heads, comp 262h cam, Holley 600cfm carb, 2in twice pipes, MSD ignition, turbo 350 trans, 3.73 posi

 

I've got the group purchased Alston SFC which are also the IRS terminators, same thing. They're bolt in and each end used 2 bolts = 8 total. I had them tightened up so the frame barely pinched in. They haven't moved and are still tight after hard street use and abuse a year later. I might eventually get them welded in but that is the advantage of having bolt ins. If the car got into an accident I could unbolt them and sell them or transfer them to my next camaro. Having them welded in is really only good if you're twisting the frame up with a big block or some mad torque. About the doors, I dont' know what you guys are talking about because if the doors don't shut properly don't you have some other problems with the car other than sfc's? I'm just really confused with the big fuss. I've talked to some serious hard core racers and SFC only need to be installed in cars making large amounts of power and even then, bolt in is fine and weld it is more durable. Remember you can always weld the bolt ins after the install.

------------------
, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list)