89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

As I stated in another thread, I am having to replace my transmission...again. At first i was against the idea of getting a th350 but I did alittle research and I thought I saw that somebody said I do not need a new chip if I swap in a TH350.....if thats the case then I am really leaning towards it for a few reasons....

1. Only drive the car on weekends
2. Only drive the car on the interstate to go to the drag strip...and I dont go there often....it is a 30-45 minute drive
3. Less weight
4. More power to the wheels


Reasons why I am not looking foward to it
1. Have to get new torque arm
2. Have to get new driveshaft
3. Don't know if stock shifter will work

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

getting a 9" tailshaft TH350 means you can keep your stock driveshaft. I like the B&M TH350 conversion kit that includes the trans mount spacer. Really with any kind of power you should be running an aftermarket torque arm, i'm happy with my adjustable jegs brand torque arm that doesn't put stress on the trans tailshaft. I "believe" the stock shifter will work but I'm not 100% sure, you might lose 1st gear manually, I don't recall the one drawback. Again, PRND will work no problem, just the other settings might not.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

hmmm...any advantages of using th400 instead of th350?

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

89 formula,
If I were in your shoes, I would not even think of giving up the 700R.
700R's with the later upgrades and all 4L60's, when properly built (and therein lies the key!) will last practically forever running the numbers I see in your sig with an F-body.
The trouble is there are SO few places that can build a 700/4L60 even to the original GM standards, much less upgrading them. That's where the 700R bad rap bandwagon gets its steam.
We're running 1.3x and 1.4x 60 ft times, high 10 to low 11 sec ET's in 4000 lb Impala's and getting 300 to 400 passes on 4L60E's in between rebuilds. BUT.......I can name less than a handful of places in this country that builds them to do this. The one closest to you is Carolina Performance Transmissions near Winston-Salem www.cpt4l60e.com.
The owner is Shane Cobb. His track record of keeping these trannys together in our heavy cars is outstanding, and you'll be surprised to find the cost is not much more than the junk rebuild jobs offered all over the place. I would give them a call before you jump into the conversion hurdles and expenses of a TH350 and give up the great 1st gear launch ratio and OD/lockup of the 700R.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

I've broken 4 700R4's and this will be my fifth tranny in less than 6 years....700R4's are expensive and this tranny wasnt even 6 months old....i cannot afford a new 700r4. And i dont know if its the different builders I had trying to build it right (with Raptor parts and others), but i have lost my patience....unless i can find a 700r4 that is guaranteed to not break....and will cost me under 1500 with a good stall......gotta have to go with th350.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

All I can do is give you the information and my opinions which are just based on my experience. What you do with it is up to you. Either way, you're gonna end up happier than you are now.............TH350 happiness because you've already decided it's worth it, or 700R happiness because I said so Hmmm......my money says you're going TH350

Good luck!

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

You need to talk to Dana at http://www.700r4l60e.com/

He can set you up with a kit for either trans you pick. He goes by Probuilt or something here on the board.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Yep, Dana is one of the best! He's in Calif; that's why I didn't mention him above. CPT is close to 89formula.
My original factory 4L60E's are hanging in there because of tips and instructions from Dana when I installed the Transgo kits. In the Impala: 530 hp on the juice, spraying through every shift,.. In the truck: 250,000 miles towing, racing it, and beating on it like an ugly stepchild.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

Yeap, he helped me with my TH350 rebuild. It was my first complete trans rebuild. I just didnt want to tackle the 700 since I was doing it myself. Plus I couldnt afford it at the time.

I dont drive mine but on the weekends and to the track. Im very happy with it thanks to Dana and a few guys on the board. But if I ever go with a overdrive trans again, I will get up with Dana.

Shagwell

a properly built 700r4/4l60 can be built to handle more power than a built t350. No they're not as cheap to build, but you get what you pay for. Since you've broken 4 at your current power level, then you have yet to spend money w/ the right shop. I'd imagine all that added up would have bought you a solid built 700 from a reputable shop. If you're just looking for a cheap decent trans, the T350 may be your answer if you can live w/o the OD. The factory shifter should not be an issue, as it has no detents(all done in the trans). A t400 is deffinitely beyond your needs and thus will just cost you hp.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

You mentioning the fact that I do not drive the car much except on weekends on and on weekends just makes me waant to lean towards the th350....I mean I had a rebuild kit by Raptor last....3 rebuilds before by a tranny shop that was supposed to be the best in town....makes me think that
A. nobody around me knows crap about building a 700R4 to handle my pretty mild 383
B. The best shop in town is pretty crappy
C. God just doesnt want me to have a 700R4

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

89f, Not to be busting your chops here, but mentioning things like "Raptor" and "best in town" tells me you never even had a prayer of getting a 700R that was worth anything. Don't feel bad, you've fallen victim to the same thing that 99% of the public does.
Where do you plan to get the TH350 from? I'm thinking with the kind of build quality you've experienced so far, you might be looking at the wrong places for ANY kind of tranny. TH350's and 400's are not idiot-proof either. Your application is so mild that the quality of those builds must have been atrocious to fail so soon.
CPT, whom I mentioned, gives you a 1 year warranty on their trannies. Funny thing, I don't know of anyone who has had to use that warranty.
Even if you're going the TH350 route, I'd use them.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

So you have a th350 laying around, If not then you need to figure in the price of a core if you have one built.

I ended up getting one out of a 78 4x4 truck. I had to find a 9" tail housing and output shaft. I bought the rebuild kit from Dana and had to buy a clutch compressor tool, 6" c-clamps and a bushing driver set. I had basic tools and snap ring pliers.


There is no reason you cant stay with the 700r4. You just need a good shop and good parts.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

Its a much stronger tranny, but you lose that overdrive which sucks for highway driving. I think the turbo 400 would fit but you need a new driveshaft-but dont quote me on that. my dad had a 400 in his chevelle, with 4.10s and a 454. That tranny had only a shift kit and mild stall converter, and it would literelly SNAP your neck when it shifted!

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

I know I am looking at the wrong places that is why i am not going to rebuild this transmission anymore. Everytime it broke this was the same one used time and time again. And I know alot of ppl swear by probuilt or performabuilt or Raptor or their hometown builder, but it costs alot more to get a 700R4 to handle the same horsepower it does a th350. And that is one of the main reasons why i am wanting a th350. Less money to get it, less money if it breaks.

Burnout91

BUT, are you going to have your TH350 built by the SAME people / shop that built your TH700R4?
Bill

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

itd be cheaper to just keep pulling them out of the junkyards than to keep rebuilding them.. i'd also check craigslist too sometimes youll find a good deal

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

Not even if my life depended on it. I am looking into www.cpt4l60e.com that another member suggested and probuilt.

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

any idea on what is breaking in the trans? I work at a trans shop we built a 700r4 that went into a chevelle with a 383 race motor and that was a year ago no comebacks. Seems like the most common problems in the 700r4 is the sun shell and 3-4 clutches. The street strip kits off dana's website look really good comes with everything to handle the power your throwing at it.

karrfirebird87

iTrader: (1)

hey guys , i swapt my 700r4 for a th350 an its wonderfull , i went with the b&m changeover kit wich works great for my torque arm an im running around 400 hp , but the drive shaft was a small prob ,but a th200 shaft will take care of that problem , an i cant say ive ever seen a 9 inch tailshaft on a th350 ,6inch yes thats the one ive got , an yes your stock shifter will work ,

89RsPower!

yep like karr said if you go with a short tail th350 you can use a driveshaft from a 200, but if you use a longtail th350 the t-5/700r4 ds will fit fine.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

just called dana...he said he doesnt deal with th350's anymore

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

call up a local speed shop, ask who builds all their Th350s locally for race cars, then go to them.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

hehe thats where the problem is....the place that rebuilt my now blown 700r4.....was a place that built race trannys

karrfirebird87

iTrader: (1)

dont have one built ,, go to a checker auto parts ,or another member of the csk family , you can get a very nicely b&m performance built th350 for under a 1000 bucks with a warrenty i think its like a 5 year 100,000 mile warrenty , i know i work at checker,
an he probly doesnt do anything with them any more is because their inexpensive an he wouldnt make enuff off it , not that i know him or anything

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

none near me....anybody heard of transmission-specialties.com?

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

also considering ati.....ive seen people with their converter but i havent seen anybody with their transmissions.... anybody running their trans? th350's of course

karrfirebird87

iTrader: (1)

ok ,, well how about an advance auto parts , i know they started out in virginia they can also get that trans , i dont know how much thou , but they do price match an will match checkers price if their higher
,, an i cant say ive seen a b&m trans in action but the pics an specs on it sure lookt good , if my trans were to go thats the one ide get,

monte-ss

Depending on your mechanical abilities, try it yourself. I rebuilt my 700 a couple years back using a TCI kit, did a bunch of research on how to build it up. Bought a helms GM trans manual, it takes you step by step with pics how to do it. I even had a paxton on the engine for a short while and still have not had any problems with it. I think it took me 2-3 days taking my time doing the job from removal to instal.

92Z28/RS

I don't know how much hp I'm running but I run a 383; 7:37 in the 1/8th and 11:54 in the 1/4 with my 700R4 and wouldn't trade it for the world. Nothing like having a mid 11 sec car with overdrive. But I do have one problem.....the stangs hate it. Good luck.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

What brand transmission are you running?

DSmith

Break this one http://www.transmissioncenter.net/highperf700r4.htm

Even better idea, get a TH350 and send me your broken 700r4. I'll pull out my WC T5 cause I'm sick of shifting gears. It is possible you could have a bad case, not likely but possible. I think the problem is the best shop in your town. A friend of mine has had his tranny built 2 times by the same shop and it needs it again, I had one built for my Z71 and hammered the hell out of it untill the day I sold the truck and never had a problem. SAME brand parts, NOT the same shop. What really pisses him off is when it goes out in the 4th or 5th month with a 90 day warrenty on it. If the shop will not put a 1 year warrenty on their work for a street car do not take it to them.

Vaneat-91RS

Hmmm, I'm in the camp of the 700R4 should be just as good as a TH350, or better. The reality is, the 700R4 is pretty much the same trans as the TH350, just with an OD gear. In fact, most guys who build cars that I know wouldn't have a TH350 for any reason. It was definitely the weak sister during its time. People broke them all the time. Certainly the aftermarket has provided parts for them to beef them up, but those same parts are also available for the 700R4. I'm not a tranny builder, so I'm not trying to blow smoke in that regard, but as a long time GM parts tech, I've definitely seen more than my share of transmissions come through. If you really want something not to break, a TH400 if you can find one is certainly beefier, or even a 4L80. Otherwise, I think as several here have mentioned, it really comes down to the builder.

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

stay far away from b&m and tci trans. ati is local to me i hear nothing but good things

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

Try www.ptcrace.com

They can hook you up with a trans and converter. They have great converters and stand behind there product.

They had the street/strip TH350 for $650.
They also have the TH400 also.

Torque converters for 700r4 also.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

i forgot about them. I didnt see anything on their website about a warranty on their transmissions.

ljnowell

There is another option to make this easier on you. If you are going to have the th350 built anyway, do it right. You can keep your stock tq arm, mount, crossmember and driveshaft, for about 150 bucks. Yep. Do a search for my username in the auto trans board. There is a kit that you can purchase, it comes with a spacer and some bolts and a few other things. YOu use a 700r4 output shaft, and the spacer and a 700r4 tailshaft on the end. This way you retain all of the bolt in qualities of the 700r4. Look it up, you wont be dissapointed.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I keep seeing one thing glossed over... TOTAL PRICE!

What's the cost of Dana building a 700R4 and taking yours as a core?

What's the price of a GUARANTEED TH350? Plus spacers/brackets/torque arms/torque converters?

I don't honestly think you'll be money ahead once you buy EVERYTHING you need to "drop in" a TH350.

I can understand wanting to upgrade to something better. But I don't think that argument holds water. There are too many guys running 700R4s and 2004Rs that don't cost 2 thousand dollars. Guys running deep in the 11's and beyond.

Just make sure you take out a pad and paper and do the math both ways before you go for it.

ljnowell

I would expect to pay 600 dollars for the trans, 150 for the kit and then a stall.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

i had actually already done that and the link you gave wasnt working....

well ATI sells a 9" th350 but for the price difference i could get a driveshaft made for that......but then again shipping would kill me....but ati is only an hour and a half away.

and Kris, I have not overlooked that. That is why i have not purchased anything yet.

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

Dana's 700r4- $1685+$550 converter= $2235

Performabuilt- $1940 with their custom converter included

Now for the th350

Transmission-Specialties.com- $844.00 plus $250 for Jegs 3500-3800 stall converter+$120 for th350 kit+$340 DS=$1554
ATI with 9" shaft-$922+$250+$120=$1292
ptcrace.com-$650.00+$120 swap kit+$250 converter+$340 spohn DS=$1360

ptcrace doesnt say if their th350 is 6" or 9" so i figured count on it being 6"

so it looks like th350 is cheapest unless im missing something (always think i am?)

Tobias05

either way you go, just get an edge. may regret not having 4th gear to shift into, but you won't regret having a street edge!

brandon

92Z28/RS

I would perfer to have a 700R4 with OD than a TH 350 for a street car. If my car was for the strip only and needed a trans button then I would prefer the 350 turbo

JesasaurusRex

iTrader: (3)

am i the only one that knows the 700r4s gear ratios f*ckin suck

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

definitely from a racing standpoint TH350 > 700R4

half the cost to build and they will hold MUCH much more power reliably.

Floor guy

I wish you were close to my location. I would help you go through the 700r4 for free(labor), just to show you that they are not as bad as some think they are. When built correctly, (not special, just correctly), and the tv system is properly set (via the cable), they flat out work.
Gear ratio difference between the 350 and the 700 is obviously debatable as well.

Some combo's will benefit from the 700, others from the 350.

I personally would not run a 350 on the street. Losing 3-5 mph overall would affect my budget, even on a part time ride.

I have helped quite a few street driven cars convert to turbo 350's, and most were not thrilled they did it. Be sure that it is what you want to do before you actually write the checks.

Both transmissions work well, and hold up to similar power when built right.
The 350 is a bit more forgiving due to the vacuum modulator vs the tv system.

Good luck either way.

Floor guy

Absolutely the way to go with a turbo 350 conversion

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Nope, I'm on that bandwagon as well. I personally prefer the 2004R like the turbo Buicks (and 89 TTAs) run. I like the 2.76 first gear better than the 3.08.

If you're gonna upgrade your torque arm anyway, It pretty much replaces the 700r4. You can re-use the driveshaft and mount and shifter...

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

I got my 700r4 rebuilt right and I have a best of 11.53 in the 1/4.

What is the weight difference from a 700r4 to a th350??

Dry weight for a 700r4 with convertor is 170lbs.

niceroc

iTrader: (2)

i just went through this same thing, but i didnt break 700r4's.. i just have a weekend only car and decided to go with the th350, i got it built for 600, converter for 200 and the swap stuff used for 75 and mega shifter for 100, for under a grand i got a trans that is lighter, stronger, and has better gear ratios then a 700r4, the no od doesnt kill me, if i was worried about gas milage i wouldnt put a BBC in my car